[Theory] Coalescing past thoughts and a prediction of power

UzumakiSO6P

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Just would like to point out Naruto has all of Kurama now, though it doesn't appear it has totally "combined".


-You can see Minato's KCM chakra moving into Naruto's Kurama shroud


-Both Kuramas are next to each other and Minato's KCM dissapears
 
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Transcendence

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Just would like to point out Naruto has all of Kurama now, though it doesn't appear it has totally "combined".


-You can see Minato's KCM chakra moving into Naruto's Kurama shroud


-Both Kuramas are next to each other and Minato's KCM dissapears
Actually, no he does not. That was directly after the God Tree sucked Naruto's chakra up. In order for Naruto to re-enter Bijuu Mode, he took some chakra from Yin Kurama to initiate it. Yin Kurama has not been transferred to Naruto yet.
 
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Mr Hiru

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@Transcendence

I did take the liberty to high-light all possible forks for the story; the sage being an Uzumaki being one of them. I did go explicitly into the argumentation surrounding the original factors concerning the blood-lines and the Chakra argument. This is where the 'main' disagreement lies.

@ Hirudora

I appreciate that you took the time to read it. The post was quite long. I may have gotten carried away a wee bit. I am afraid I cannot offer a detailed counter for today, at least, henceforth, I will post short pointers, as that is feasible for me for now:

- I am not completely positive that Sasuke would acquire Rinnegan. The dichotomy was created to form a parallel that which seems more logical. This will not alter how the manga would itself proceed, but the established logic is there.

- As you pointed out yourself, Orochimaru is a factor here and he is or would be willing to aid Sasuke. That is a matter of certainty.

- Uzumaki and Senju are distantly related, and posses different bodily Traits, which includes the notion of a distinct chakra pattern resulting in better 'Life Forces'. Even their physical traits are quite starkly different. Kabuto highlighted this during his conversation with Itachi and Sasuke. No apparent parallels were made to Senju Clan. Which implies that differences are definitely there.

- Your possibility stems from 'Relation' of Senju and Uzumaki, when the manga is not only sketchy but very grossly scarce on the details. yes, the manga may as well steer this way but would that be completely logical? No. The manga established that you need both Senju and Uchiha dna in the purest forms to develop the power of the sage; Rinnegan. What is a distant relative? The term distant hardly implies close genetic line, but something that forked off from Senju. If that is not how it is meant to be deciphered, then how should it be? Can one ignore the elephant in the room called 'Distant Relative' and the logical connotations? No, we cannot.

Madara could have opted for Uzumakis as well. There was no reason to invite the wrath of Hashirama - he challenged the entire village but regardless - for Senju dna. The manga already established that Senju Dna is a definite and absolute prerequisite for EMS's mutation. He even goes as far as to mention that one cannot use the Mezo effectively and even pointed out that Obito's control was better than Nagato's. This puts more weight on the argument as Obito is basically Madara with implanted Rinnegan. He is from a pure Uchiha Line and possesses the Dna of the other half. All these factors cannot be ignored.

I have already exceeded the pointers to hilarious proportions, but, there can be several logical answers for Naruto receiving the Rinnegan and he would probably as well, given the stance this manga has taken in regards to keeping record of earlier made statements, but that doesn't mean it would clash with what the author has stated himself.
I quite agree. My arguments were not very detailed and I did enstablish a gross relationship between Senju and Uzuamki, but without going too deep. That aside, I guess we got an agreement on the points you made.

Please, take in mind that I questioned the possibility of Nagato using the 100% percent of Rinnegan. I guess this is the main reason of why I agree so much with what you said. You're someone who seeks possibilities, and I quite appreciate that.

Then again, thanks for such detailed post.
 
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Transcendence

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I quite agree. My arguments were not very detailed and I did enstablish a gross relationship between Senju and Uzuamki, but without going too deep. That aside, I guess we got an agreement on the points you made.

Please, take in mind that I questioned the possibility of Nagato using the 100% percent of Rinnegan. I guess this is the main reason of why I agree so much with what you said. You're someone who seeks possibilities, and I quite appreciate that.

Then again, thanks for such detailed post.

I firmly believe that the full potential of the Rinnegan can only be used through a host of a Jinchuriki (more notably the Juubi or Full Kurama). Assuming the root of it all is the Juubi and it came from that, the Rinnegan can only be used to the most potential when it's near or combined with its original composition.
 

Mr Hiru

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I firmly believe that the full potential of the Rinnegan can only be used through a host of a Jinchuriki (more notably the Juubi or Full Kurama). Assuming the root of it all is the Juubi and it came from that, the Rinnegan can only be used to the most potential when it's near or combined with its original composition.
Indeed, this is what I used to support your theory on my posts. The nexus between these posts and my last one is not trivial: The fact that Naruto is an Uzumaki doesn't anything to do with the potential to awake or use the Rinnegan. This potential is related to the true source of the Rinnegan: The Juubi's Chakra (or should I say, the Nine beasts chakra? In essense, they are exactly the same), and Naruto is very near to achieve that kind of power.
 

Transcendence

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Indeed, this is what I used to support your theory on my posts. The nexus between these posts and my last one is not trivial: The fact that Naruto is an Uzumaki doesn't anything to do with the potential to awake or use the Rinnegan. This potential is related to the true source of the Rinnegan: The Juubi's Chakra (or should I say, the Nine beasts chakra? In essense, they are exactly the same), and Naruto is very near to achieve that kind of power.

Completely agree. I have said this ever since I came on the site. The coalesced Bijuu's chakra would be in essence, the same as having the Juubi in someone; effect wise.
 

Transcendence

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Good compilation Transcendence, Albeit, for Naruto to awaken the Rikudo's Doūjutsu would require the Bijū chakra within him to rival that of the fruit, being the least as it's composition [A portion of the Shinjū's power; better worded as a portion of the Shinjū's composition] was specific; sufficient to supply Kaguya Doūjutsu and a body able to harness chakra as well as Natural energy----the remaining option for Naruto is being Host of the Jūbi. The power accumulated from the Bijū has thus far had what effect on Naruto's power...? Deeming it reserved potential would be distant given the extents Naruto has been pushed to in recent battles: It is a subtle point which negates the thought.

Disregard the bump to this thread, but given the past events last chapter, this comment needed attention. I completely comply with this hypothesis that you have brought forth, but there is ample alleviation to be seen coming in the next 1-2 chapters. Due to Naruto initiating the tug of war, nigh Shukaku and Gyuki's tentacle will most likely be absorbed within Naruto, and given that Kurama most likely comprises much more of the Juubi than all other Biju, the effects shall rival (as you say) the effects the fruit had on Ootsuki Kaguya and her offspring; Hagoromo.

Also, to note, Kurama once again noted the "Rikudou reincarnation" concept via Naruto.
 

Mr Hiru

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Disregard the bump to this thread, but given the past events last chapter, this comment needed attention. I completely comply with this hypothesis that you have brought forth, but there is ample alleviation to be seen coming in the next 1-2 chapters. Due to Naruto initiating the tug of war, nigh Shukaku and Gyuki's tentacle will most likely be absorbed within Naruto, and given that Kurama most likely comprises much more of the Juubi than all other Biju, the effects shall rival (as you say) the effects the fruit had on Ootsuki Kaguya and her offspring; Hagoromo.

Also, to note, Kurama once again noted the "Rikudou reincarnation" concept via Naruto.
Note apart... I'm starting to have doubts about the Ten Tails Jinchuuriki being able to match the Fruit power.

Until now, we know the Juubi had tree stages. The first one (the monster), the second one (the vileplume + venusaur + slowbro) and the last one (the yggdrasil). If we see the forms that were stolen from the Juubi when Kaguya ate the fruits, the frame after that part revealed "the monster". This means that the fruit got the power of the two strongest levels of the Juubi, and this gives sense of why the Sage was able to defeat the Juubi (the remaining part of the Juubi had only the weakest stage, Kagura and Hagoromo had the two strongest levels).

The meaning is not trivial... if the Juubi in its weakest stage was the one transformed in Nine Tailed beasts and the Gedou Mazou... this means the Juubi Jinchuuriki is no match for someone who directly eats the Fruit.

I had to put this doubt on the table.

Look...

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Can you see where I'm getting at?

...if Madara gets the fruit, The Shinobi Alliance, Naruto, and even Obito won't be a match for him.
 

iNotorious

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Note apart... I'm starting to have doubts about the Ten Tails Jinchuuriki being able to match the Fruit power.

Until now, we know the Juubi had tree stages. The first one (the monster), the second one (the vileplume + venusaur + slowbro) and the last one (the yggdrasil). If we see the forms that were stolen from the Juubi when Kaguya ate the fruits, the frame after that part revealed "the monster". This means that the fruit got the power of the two strongest levels of the Juubi, and this gives sense of why the Sage was able to defeat the Juubi (the remaining part of the Juubi had only the weakest stage, Kagura and Hagoromo had the two strongest levels).

The meaning is not trivial... if the Juubi in its weakest stage was the one transformed in Nine Tailed beasts and the Gedou Mazou... this means the Juubi Jinchuuriki is no match for someone who directly eats the Fruit.

I had to put this doubt on the table.

Look...

You must be registered for see images


Can you see where I'm getting at?

...if Madara gets the fruit, The Shinobi Alliance, Naruto, and even Obito won't be a match for him.
If madara ever does gets the fruit, sure he will be POWERFUL but TnJ -> Madara.
 

Transcendence

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Note apart... I'm starting to have doubts about the Ten Tails Jinchuuriki being able to match the Fruit power.

Until now, we know the Juubi had tree stages. The first one (the monster), the second one (the vileplume + venusaur + slowbro) and the last one (the yggdrasil). If we see the forms that were stolen from the Juubi when Kaguya ate the fruits, the frame after that part revealed "the monster". This means that the fruit got the power of the two strongest levels of the Juubi, and this gives sense of why the Sage was able to defeat the Juubi (the remaining part of the Juubi had only the weakest stage, Kagura and Hagoromo had the two strongest levels).

The meaning is not trivial... if the Juubi in its weakest stage was the one transformed in Nine Tailed beasts and the Gedou Mazou... this means the Juubi Jinchuuriki is no match for someone who directly eats the Fruit.

I had to put this doubt on the table.

Look...

You must be registered for see images


Can you see where I'm getting at?

...if Madara gets the fruit, The Shinobi Alliance, Naruto, and even Obito won't be a match for him.

This is why it is integral that Naruto absorbs the Bijuu. Although, I don't know if it makes you stronger than the Juubi. Just able to go toe to toe.
 

Mr Hiru

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This is why it is integral that Naruto absorbs the Bijuu. Although, I don't know if it makes you stronger than the Juubi. Just able to go toe to toe.
The Juubi is the addition of the Bijuu and the Gedou Mazou. But the combination of all of these are not the full God Tree. The God Tree, under the panel I put, is clearly the Juubi in its first stage (the weakests) + the fruit (two levels).
 

adeshina365

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With 2013 coming to a close, I think it's a good time to come back and review the contents of this thread. Personally for me, my view on Sasuke's power-up(s) have changed quite a great deal from reading BlinkST's threads. I'm now of the opinion that Sasuke's method of surpassing Madara will be through the path of Senjutsu.

With that said, these are some comments that I would like to make after analyzing the manga and soaking in the thoughts of other posters:

With regards to Naruto obtaining the Rinnegan:

- I'm increasingly of the view that Naruto will not obtain the Rinnegan. I've outlined some of these reasons in
thread.

- I would also suggest that you read my thread . If my hypothesis is correct, then like Nagato, Naruto also won't be able to access the full capabilities of the Rinnegan. I would suggest reading the thread on Narutoforums because I made some improvements to it there.

With regards to the simultaneous use of SM and BM:

- Not to my surprise, this did end up occurring, but the output of BSM has been underwhelming to say the least. In my thread I analyze this in further detail.

With regards to Sasuke obtaining a "CM V3":

- The base idea behind this theory is sound, but I'm not of the belief that Sasuke's return to Senjutsu power will manifest itself in this manner, but instead as a full fledged "DSM. I would suggest that you read , but more specifically the that I made in the thread. Sasuke will have not need to "absorb" Juugo into him. The cells from Juugo's in his chest are sufficient to achieve DSM:

It seems that you're correct. Juugo refers to his ability as "Sennin Transformation" here:

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Orochimaru was incapable of getting what is referred to as the same ability:

You must be registered for see images

You are correct, a controlled "Sennin Transformation" is what Kabuto 'referred' to as "DSM".

The appearance of the fully released curse seal likely has to with the fact that Orochimaru's chakra is mixed in with it. It probably also wasn't as strong as the traditional SM because it only used a small portion of Juugo's chakra. The analogy of the curse seal being akin to the toad oil is accurate. Sasuke absorbing Nature energy directly would be a force to reckon with.

With regards to Sasuke obtaining "Yomi":

- I still find this to be an interesting possibility, Sasuke as he is now wouldn't need the technique for combating Naruto's speed as he's shown that his EMS is sufficient as a measure of countering that level of speed.

With regards to Sasuke's "Perfect" Susanoo:

- To no surprise this development ended up occurring. As of now we've only been shown small glimpses of its potential. I'm expecting more to be shown later.

- At the same time, I'm siding with BlinkST with the opinion that .
 
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