Why is it assumed Yata and Totsuka statements are hyperbole?

[Strict]

Kamui was countered by FTG when Obito invaded Konoha. He didn't claim Yata is weak or useless, he's simply saying it won't tank anything. And the databook contradicts itself. if Kabutowari can break all defences and Yata mirror can negate all attacks, what happens? Clearly something will happen, concluding that the databook is incorrect in many areas, so saying one area is correct and one isn't is ignorant.

The hype of Kabutowari was given by a random Shinobi without elaboration. The Yata mirror however was not only hyped to be perfect and to counter all attacks, it was also said why it negates the effect of any attack. So the entry about the Yata mirror is accurately defined like Preta-Path is defined on how it negates any form of Chakra, what is also legit. It is not mere hype which says that Yata blocks any attack, period.

 

[KidGamer65]

How can you prove it'll block more than bomb tags but not enough for a TBB? lmao You're talking in circles.

I only said one thing during this whole discussion. Yata. Is. Not. Invincible. Do I know how much it can take? Obviously not as we haven't seen it in action. The only thing I can prove is that it can't block all attacks.

2+2=5 False
2+3=6 False
2+2=4 True

It's all math. Just because most are false, doesn't mean all are.

The fact that all hyperbole from the db have been proven false coupled with the fact that Totsuka and Yata create a paradox and the fact that I see no feats that say these weapons are as good as you claim they are mean that Totsuka and Yata are nothing but hyperbole.

This is enough grounds to require some more evidence or some proof that the hyperbole in that particular article is true. We have proof that 2+3=5 while most other things are false.

I can show you Totsuka cutting everything it has sliced and Yata blocking everything that has hit it. Can you show me them failing?

Good for you. Now can you actually prove the assertion in question? That its invincible? Nope. Not with the feats its displayed.

And again:

Not to mention there is a clear contradiction between Yata, Totsuka and Helmsplitter.

Helmsplitter is stated to smash all defenses while Yata is stated to repel all attacks and is a defense, so how is Yata going to block Totsuka or Helmsplitter? Now we have a paradox, meaning something is false here. I can't believe that you actually believe this Invincible Yata shit............come on now.

Its either Yata isn't invincible or Totsuka and Helmsplitter don't cut through anything or smash through all defenses. All of them obviously aren't true like you claim, and this time actually reply to this part, don't ignore it.

Even if you say "Helmsplitter isn't a spiritual weapon like Yata" you still have to answer for the Totsuka and Yata paradox.

 

[NarutoIndra]

1. Databook has been proven incorrect before. proof from this very thread



2. Also has little evidence to suggest it lives up to its hype. However, the point is mute lack of evidence refuting your point is not evidence backing up your point

If you are tying to say the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence, then it doesn't work in this situation. People are claiming only because Kishi said it, it means it is correct, but clearly evidence has been brought up to show that this is not the case. Thus, it should have long been concluded that Kishi's databooks are unreliable.

The hype of Kabutowari was given by a random Shinobi without elaboration. The Yata mirror however was not only hyped to be perfect and to counter all attacks, it was also said why it negates the effect of any attack. So the entry about the Yata mirror is accurately defined like Preta-Path is defined on how it negates any form of Chakra, what is also legit. It is not mere hype which says that Yata blocks any attack, period.

People make it seems as if Kishi wrote databooks and didnt write the manga. Saying Kishi said it in the databook is true, but Kishi said it with the use of a character is false is a delusional statement. And even if this were to be ignored, it still wouldn't clear up what would happen if the Totsuka attempted to pierce the Yata mirror (using db, the only thing you seem to believe).

 

[LO3]

See... if Itachi wasn't killed through an asspull and trolled by Kishi, we could've possibly seen for feats from the Yata Mirror to confirm / disprove or hypotheses.

 

[HiddenSound]

Because if that's the case then Kamui cannot be blocked and Hebi Sasuke solos everyone with his god-like speed.
You know none of that, including what's in the OP, is true.

 

[Booker]

I only said one thing during this whole discussion. Yata. Is. Not. Invincible. Do I know how much it can take? Obviously not as we haven't seen it in action. The only thing I can prove is that it can't block all attacks.


The fact that all hyperbole from the db have been proven false coupled with the fact that Totsuka and Yata create a paradox and the fact that I see no feats that say these weapons are as good as you claim they are mean that Totsuka and Yata are nothing but hyperbole.



Good for you. Now can you actually prove the assertion in question? That its invincible? Nope. Not with the feats its displayed.

And again:



Its either Yata isn't invincible or Totsuka and Helmsplitter don't cut through anything or smash through all defenses. All of them obviously aren't true like you claim, and this time actually reply to this part, don't ignore it.

Even if you say "Helmsplitter isn't a spiritual weapon like Yata" you still have to answer for the Totsuka and Yata paradox.

You make no sense.

You claim it is not invincible because it has only tanked bomb tags as its strongest hit.

Then you say it can tank more than that. If you're going strictly off feats, where are you pulling this from? How do you know it can tank more than bomb tags, but also know it can't tank, say, a TBB?

 

[KidGamer65]

You make no sense.

You claim it is not invincible because it has only tanked bomb tags as its strongest hit.

Then you say it can tank more than that. If you're going strictly off feats, where are you pulling this from? How do you know it can tank more than bomb tags, but also know it can't tank, say, a TBB?

..............................

-I don't know how much it can take.

-I didn't say its hyperbole solely because of its lack of feats.

1. Databook hyperbole has been noted to be false every single time without fail.

2. Yata, Helmsplitter, and Totsuka's hype all being true creates a paradox, so they all can't be true.

I even stated this in the post you just quoted, were you even reading? Clearly not.

The fact that all hyperbole from the db have been proven false coupled with the fact that Totsuka and Yata create a paradox and the fact that I see no feats that say these weapons are as good as you claim they are mean that Totsuka and Yata are nothing but hyperbole.

 

[KCMNaruto]

THIS THE LIST WHY I Assume Yata and Totsuka statements to be hyperbole:

1) Third Databook came long time ago, and could be actually outdated. It is even further support my claim as Kishi has made Databook after some time which means that this Databook is completly true to THIS MOMENT..., however it can change.

2) Obvious Hyperbole as Kishi was always hyping Techniques, weapons etc... only to get even bigger attention of fans.

3) Yata Mirror was tested only against weak attack on currently power level of manga(It could be great before... but now no more.), so it lacks feats against such attack as Tailed beast bomb, Amaterasu. Actually Kishi proving it against Onmyoudon could close any speculations and prove it if he want. However it doesn't look like that.

4) Kishi could have changed his mind many times while manga is still going. Basically Kishi wouldn't even think about attacks like Dust release, Tailed beast bomb, Omyoudon etc. WHEN he stated for Yata to be invincible...

5) The most often mistake made by people is basing on Databook after something new is introduced, this is not how databook works. Databook only confirm and make clear about statements, hype and deliver some explanations about things which happened in The manga UNTIL NOW/SO FAR. Simple Databook is used to close some period of manga clearing all doubts, but it doesn't work like it should be used to explain future as future changes constantly and anything new introduced by the manga can be only proved/disproved by the manga.

6) EDO Madara was stated to have no weakness in Kishi's interview could it mean, then what if Totsuka will be used against him ?

Contradiction, my dear buddies

Simple Yata Mirror is invincible weapon which can defend any attack introduced in the manga to point when Itachi's died, same with Totsuka Blade being capable of piercing through anything to the point when Itachi died.
Anything before is includd in that statement/hype but anything from future can be or not, it depends from the manga.

 

[NarutoIndra]

You make no sense.

You claim it is not invincible because it has only tanked bomb tags as its strongest hit.

Then you say it can tank more than that. If you're going strictly off feats, where are you pulling this from? How do you know it can tank more than bomb tags, but also know it can't tank, say, a TBB?

Do people really not understand what he is saying when he uses the word 'hyperbole'? Hyperbole doesn't mean false, it means over exaggerated. Clearly if the Susano is powerful, and the Yata is used as a weapon of last resort, it should be more powerful then the Susano, still, NOT invincible. No one knows what it can and can't tank, but it's obvious it tanks more then a few paper bombs and less then a Juubi TBB. When Amateratsu was said to be as 'hot as the sun' it was a hyperbole, exaggerating it's heat, but only because it was exaggerated, doesn't mean it isn't very hot. Same goes for Yata, it was exaggerated, but only because it was exaggerated doesn't mean it can't tank the majority of attacks.

 

[-Spoiler-]

I lol'd again =D

am joking anything that absorbs , reflects or nullifies chakra beats ps

 

[KCMNaruto]

Do people really not understand what he is saying when he uses the word 'hyperbole'? Hyperbole doesn't mean false, it means over exaggerated. Clearly if the Susano is powerful, and the Yata is used as a weapon of last resort, it should be more powerful then the Susano, still, NOT invincible. No one knows what it can and can't tank, but it's obvious it tanks more then a few paper bombs and less then a Juubi TBB. When Amateratsu was said to be as 'hot as the sun' it was a hyperbole, exaggerating it's heat, but only because it was exaggerated, doesn't mean it isn't very hot. Same goes for Yata, it was exaggerated, but only because it was exaggerated doesn't mean it can't tank the majority of attacks.

Exactly this , + rep for that

 

[-Spoiler-]

But the databook clearly defines the properties of the Yata mirror and Totsuka blade by saying how it works. It's not mere hype that says it blocks anything, crushes anything or is perfectly. Yata's defense was called absolutely perfect in front of Susanoo, which is already a defense which allows you to survive Kirin - a mountain buster. So this spiritual defense must be again on a whole higher level than Susanoo's defense already is. As for your example with Kamui; yes, there is actually no defense against it since it warps anything into another dimension, including the defense. Yet, I personally put the Yata mirror above Kamui, because it states how it blocks certain attacks - by changing its attributes in accordance with the attributes of the incoming attack, consequently negating it. This is not simply hype, this is the explanation of how this weapon is working. Feat wise, the Totsuka blade fodderized an Edo Uzumaki with Rinnegan by sealing him away in a powerful Genjutsu for eternity once piercing him. Note that once Nagato was pierced, Edo Tensei's control disappeared and he was unable to move a single finger, because at the moment Totsuka hits you, you lose all your powers.

I also but them above normal means, because spiritual weapons belong above any, or most earthly means for me.
That's my opinion on that matter.

this man gets it .

 

[Booker]

..............................

-I don't know how much it can take.

-I didn't say its hyperbole solely because of its lack of feats.

1. Databook hyperbole has been noted to be false every single time without fail.

2. Yata, Helmsplitter, and Totsuka's hype all being true creates a paradox, so they all can't be true.

I even stated this in the post you just quoted, were you even reading? Clearly not.

FACT:

You can show me a grand total of zero scans suggesting they don't live up to their hype.

GG, Kidflamer69.

 

[uchihajaime]

If you are tying to say the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence, then it doesn't work in this situation. People are claiming only because Kishi said it, it means it is correct, but clearly evidence has been brought up to show that this is not the case. Thus, it should have long been concluded that Kishi's databooks are unreliable.


.

Okay, I'm saying that the mirror has been proven to stand up to paper bombs and swords. That is fact. It's logical to assume it can be withstand considerably more than that. However you can't take the two premises.
1. It withstood paper bombs
2. It is said to be able to withstand anything
Conclusion. It can withstand anything.
This is horrible logic. Especially, as premise two is in the databook with has been proven wrong before. It can't be treated as A priori knowledge.

Moreover, as I said before, an unstoppable force cannot exist within the same universe an immovable object. It's a paradox. What if the sword attacks the mirror? Does the unbreakable mirror break? Or does the unstoppable sword stop?

edit:

FACT:

You can show me a grand total of zero scans suggesting they don't live up to their hype.

GG, Kidflamer69.

Neither can you show him the mirror reflects everything or the swords seals everything since neither have been used against everything

 

[Strict]

Would you guys agree that Preta-Path absorbs any form of Chakra because the Databook said it and Nagato absorbed a Rasengan, oil and a Bijuu cloak which in fact contains only a small part of the Bijuu's full Chakra? Certainly a lot of you do. Yata's hype is built exactly like that.

Definition: Totsuka has the power to change every one of its properties, allowing to alter its attributes in accordance with the attributes of the attack, rendering the attack ineffective.

This isn't hype anymore. It is an accurate explanation about the Yata mirror's properties. Exactly like the information and effect of Jutsu's like Tsukuyomi or Kagebunshin are not outdated, because they explain how the technique works.

Hope you guys see the difference.

 

[KidGamer65]

FACT:

You can show me a grand total of zero scans suggesting they don't live up to their hype.

GG, Kidflamer69.

FACT:

You can't reply to this section of my post for one reason.

Not to mention there is a clear contradiction between Yata, Totsuka and Helmsplitter.

Helmsplitter is stated to smash all defenses while Yata is stated to repel all attacks and is a defense, so how is Yata going to block Totsuka or Helmsplitter? Now we have a paradox, meaning something is false here. I can't believe that you actually believe this Invincible Yata shit............come on now.

Its because you have no reply, you know that Yata isn't invincible and you know that Yata being invincible while Helmsplitter and Totsuka's hype are both true doesn't make any sense. At. All.

This discussion is pretty much over.

 

[-Spoiler-]

So when Itachi uses the Yata Mirror and Totsuka Blade, we just believe it as fact because DB said so.

When Kanji said it can't be defended against (it can only be defended by reversing the effects) We believe it as hype because DB said so.

I'm pretty sure if Sasuke ever uses Yata and Totsuka and it ends up having a limit, fanboys will say something like "it's only invincible in Itachi's hands because Sasuke is inexperienced.

Helmet splitter sword > Yata Mirror. No scans prove that it can't be stopped.

Yoroi > Itachi's Susanoo, he absorbs Spirit Energy as noted by Orochimaru

but yoroi got solo'ed by sasuke then solo'ed by shino, so how is he greater than itachi's susanoo.

 

[NarutoIndra]

Okay, I'm saying that the mirror has been proven to stand up to paper bombs and swords. That is fact. It's logical to assume it can be withstand considerably more than that. However you can't take the two promises
1. It withstood paper bombs
2. It is said to be able to withstand anything
Conclustoin. It can withstand anythings.
This is horrible logic. Especially, as premise two is in the databook with has been proven wrong before. It can't be treated as A priori knowledge.

Moreover, as I said before, an unstoppable force cannot exist within the same universe an immovable object. It's a paradox. What if the sword attacks the mirror? Does the unbreakable mirror break? Or does the unstoppable sword stop?

edit:



Neither can you show him the mirror reflects everything or the swords seals everything since neither have been used against everything

Exactly. But people seem to only accept what they want to so it's useless arguing here anymore unless someone can stop claiming they know if Kishi was using hyperboles or not, and give some actual evidence to back up their claims (which by the way, doesn't exist).

 

[KidGamer65]

Would you guys agree that Preta-Path absorbs any form of Chakra because the Databook said it and Nagato absorbed a Rasengan, oil and a Bijuu cloak which in fact contains only a small part of the Bijuu's full Chakra? Certainly a lot of you do. Yata's hype is built exactly like that.

Definition: Totsuka has the power to change every one of its properties, allowing to alter its attributes in accordance with the attributes of the attack, rendering the attack ineffective.

This isn't hype anymore. It is an accurate explanation about the Yata mirror's properties. Exactly like the information and effect of Jutsu's like Tsukuyomi or Kagebunshin are not outdated, because they explain how the technique works.

Hope you guys see the difference.

That explanation doesn't mean that the mirror doesn't have limits. It doesn't negate attacks like you believe it does as the manga shows. It repels them (Bomb Tags were repelled, Sasuke's Katana was repelled, Hydra was repelled), and it has to be strong enough to repel an attack, then we get into the hyperbolic area of Yata Mirror's entry. Its not like it flat out negated the whole attack.

 

[Booker]

FACT:

You can't reply to this section of my post for one reason.



Its because you have no reply, you know that Yata isn't invincible and you know that Yata being invincible while Helmsplitter and Totsuka's hype are both true doesn't make any sense. At. All.

This discussion is pretty much over.

(1) Show me Helmsplitter's databook hype.
(2) Yata's description states all attacks lose their meaning. Lose. Their. Meaning. So if it breaks any defense, guess what? It doesn't break any defense any more.
(3) Ditto for Totsuka.