Is three tomoe Sharingan Sasuke stronger than 3 tomoe Sharingan Madara?

[LeSauce]

Taijutsu doesn't require chakra, it has never required chakra. Sage Mode=/=Hashirama's DNA, that comparison isn't helping you here, and you are going to need proof for the bold, cause manga shows otherwise.

If you can't deal with that simple fact, then oh well, it doesn't change the fact its true. You are comparing a 13 yr old Obito to an adult 30 yr old Obito, who has much more experience. You aren't even making any sense here. You have done nothing to show that this is false.

You are going to need proof of this. Every time he's been shown using Kamui, his eye was NEVER shown. You saying he used it with 3-Tomoe is nothing but an assumption.

lol? If you don't how vs threads work I suggest you stop here, go learn, and then come back. This is Prime Madara who is restricted to his 3-Tomoe State. How hard is this to understand? It isn't rocket science. Do we take the KCM Naruto w/o Kurama's help and use him in vs matches or do we take the KCM Naruto who has his help? Obviously the latter.

I enhanced his abilities, it gave him more chakra to use.

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here Kakashi calls Obito weak, yet when Madara didn't even have 3 tomoe he was beating adults and same with Sasuke (Yoroi, or whatever that guys name was from part one). Obito was weak for his age. Sasuke who had MS was unable to use Katon of that scale, how the hell would Obito.

Obito isn't going to switch from MS to 3 tomoe right after he uses Kamui as we saw when he simply kept Kamui active after using it, as we saw here.

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Yet in these scans 3 tomoe is seen right before and after using it.

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Then there's the fight with Minato.

It's an MS technique, just like Kamui, if Sasuke could use amaterasu using 3 tomoe, would we include it? If I say Madara with rinnegan techniques do I mean that he can use Susano'o obviously not.

If you want to keep this going message me or something, I have to finish my homework.

 

[RikudoKami]

Madara has been fighting Senjus for a couple decades...

 

[KidGamer65]

I enhanced his abilities, it gave him more chakra to use.

I'm looking for proof it made his moves stronger, if you don't have proof of that then you are wrong. Simple as that. Its already a manga fact that Hashirama's DNA doesn't enhance techniques, when will you get this through your head?

Getting more chakra=/=Making moves stronger. Hashirama's DNA does the former not the latter.

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here Kakashi calls Obito weak, yet when Madara didn't even have 3 tomoe he was beating adults and same with Sasuke (Yoroi, or whatever that guys name was from part one). Obito was weak for his age. Sasuke who had MS was unable to use Katon of that scale, how the hell would Obito.

Are you still comparing Kid Obito to Current Obito? Since it seems you can't fathom the difference, let me show you.

Kid Obito

Spoiler

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Adult Obito

Spoiler

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Don't mention Obito as a kid again, cause he isn't relevant. Period.

Sasuke isn't the same as Obito. What the hell does having MS have to do with Katon anyway? And you STILL haven't proven that his Katon was enhanced by Hashirama's DNA, you are making flawed comparisons instead, essentially grasping at straws.

Obito isn't going to switch from MS to 3 tomoe right after he uses Kamui as we saw when he simply kept Kamui active after using it, as we saw here.

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Yet in these scans 3 tomoe is seen right before and after using it.

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Then there's the fight with Minato.

These scans prove nothing.

The first two scans have him at 3-Tomoe before Kamui is used, then he phases away and his eyehole is never shown from that point till his disappearance, you have no proof his MS wasn't being used there.

And what are the second two scans supposed to prove anyway? He used Kamui (eyehole isn't seen so you have no proof MS wasn't active) he lands, and 3-Tomoe is active. He wasn't even shown with 3-Tomoe before like you claim.

The fight with Minato has no instance where his eyehole is shown and he is using Kamui via 3-Tomoe.

 

[TrollingSage]

Did it increase the power of any of these jutsu? No, so stop mentioning them as they don't help prove your point at all. It increased the duration of both these jutsu.

Hashirama's DNA does not amply the power of jutsu, manga fact.



Are you serious?

-That is Madara as a teenager, we are talking about Madara as an adult, as I said above training lets you learn newer better techniques. Moot point here.

-Speculation, that absolutely makes zero sense. Are you even listening to yourself as you think of what to type? Madara controlled Kyuubi against Hashirama for extended periods of time, utilized Susanoo and he fought Hashirama for 24 hours straight, yet you are telling me he needs a boost in chakra to use a simple Katon with no fatigue? Lmao, not a chance.



Already proved MS doesn't need to be activated to control Kyuubi. Him having awakened MS is enough and you can't take that from him.

Well Hashirama's DNA did boost izanagi's time limit for Danzo. Besides that , Hashirama's DNA gives chakra boost. The more chakra, one has, the more he can use. Madara probably wouldnt be able to spam katons on that scale without using up a lot of his chakra without Hashirama's DNA or edo tensei.

 

[KidGamer65]

Well Hashirama's DNA did boost izanagi's time limit for Danzo. Besides that , Hashirama's DNA gives chakra boost. The more chakra, one has, the more he can use. Madara probably wouldnt be able to spam katons on that scale without using up a lot of his chakra without Hashirama's DNA or edo tensei.

Like I said to the guy above, that has nothing to do with power, it just increased the duration. Also, I know the more chakra one has the more he can do, but that isn't my point. My point is the strength of the jutsu themselves.

Also, Madara had enough chakra to fight for a whole day straight against Hashirama, and he controlled Kyuubi against him and was able to use Perfect Susanoo. Saying he needs a boost to spam Katon is ridiculous.

 

[VolatileSoul]

I can't say Sasuke say Sasuke 3tomoe>madara3tomoe, but I can say he'd give him one hell of a fight, based on feats alone. In base, Madara only has three giant Katons, high speed, taijutsu, and normal genjutsu. High speed is countered by Sasuke's speed, and Taijutsu is countered by Sasuke's superior CQC arsenal consisting of taijutsu, chidori nagashi and chidori kusanagi. If Sasuke's 3 tomoe could break a Tsukuyomi from Itachi, then 3 tomoe genjutsu even from Madara, is not working. He could always fly out of range of the large Katon, or summon some random huge snake or a horde of snakes from Ryuchido to tank it for him and Aoda could always give Sasuke some nice raw power. Madara's experience, greater reflexes, skill, that fan and overall portrayal make it more likely that he would win though.

 

[Uchihajin Sasuke]

Sasuke broke through MS with base 3 tomoe, made Kurama piss his pants, and took over Orochimaru at 14 yrs old? Wait... he also mind raped Manda and beat a genjutsu resistant Deidara.

Hell yeah Sasuke's sharingan is stronger.

 

[xxSAGExx]

Sasuke also used 3 tomoe to subdue Ninetail when he was chatting with Naruto... he actually went into the bijuu psyche plane to see Ninetails

Sasuke suppressed a small amount of a caged Kurama who was half his full power while Madara made a unsealed, full Kurama his pet. Itachi said you need the MS power to do this yet Madara did it with his basic 3 Tomoes. For those saying it's an ability you can use after awakening MS, it doesn't make sense. MS is a more powerful form which increases the genjutsu to another level which is why we see Sasuke use his MS to use genjutsu on people.

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It's makes more sense that Madara mastery of the Sharingan gives him the power to cast powerful genjutsu even with his 3 tomoes. Obito does the same thing with his 3 Tomoes but he was trained by Madara as well. Madara said he was going to teach him here:

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O.T. Madara with 3 Tomoes has the skills and power to beat Sasuke, Even with Curse seal, with no difficult. He was just playing with the 5 kages even if he had EMS/Rinnegan on, he described it as playing with children. Hashirama cell gets more chakra and wood jutsu but Madara himself was described of having power chakra. 3 Tomoe Madara has powerful Katon that will destroys Sasuke's own Katon and lightning jutsus. He has knowledge of sealing jutsus and even know edo tensei wll enough to know the sealing jutsu to break it's control which means he most likely can use edo tensei as well. He's also skilled enough to take Sasuke sword from him and cut him to bits and that's from what he's done to the shinobi alliance after being revived.

Madara placed paper bomb on 2 ninjas, kicked 1 of them into other ninjas and they all exploded... knocked someone into the ground, impaled them with a blade when they were in the ground. Madara with 3 Tomoes is to OP for CM Sasuke.

Yes or No

Would your answer change if curse seal was added

Sasuke has no chance.

 

[LeSauce]

I'm looking for proof it made his moves stronger, if you don't have proof of that then you are wrong. Simple as that. Its already a manga fact that Hashirama's DNA doesn't enhance techniques, when will you get this through your head?

Getting more chakra=/=Making moves stronger. Hashirama's DNA does the former not the latter.


Are you still comparing Kid Obito to Current Obito? Since it seems you can't fathom the difference, let me show you.

Kid Obito

Spoiler

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Adult Obito

Spoiler

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Don't mention Obito as a kid again, cause he isn't relevant. Period.

Sasuke isn't the same as Obito. What the hell does having MS have to do with Katon anyway? And you STILL haven't proven that his Katon was enhanced by Hashirama's DNA, you are making flawed comparisons instead, essentially grasping at straws.




These scans prove nothing.

The first two scans have him at 3-Tomoe before Kamui is used, then he phases away and his eyehole is never shown from that point till his disappearance, you have no proof his MS wasn't being used there.

And what are the second two scans supposed to prove anyway? He used Kamui (eyehole isn't seen so you have no proof MS wasn't active) he lands, and 3-Tomoe is active. He wasn't even shown with 3-Tomoe before like you claim.

The fight with Minato has no instance where his eyehole is shown and he is using Kamui via 3-Tomoe.

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Is this enough proof? There are different kinds of power ups from it, they’re not all the same.

I’m simply showing that Obito was weak compared to Madara. You wanted some proof. There’s also the fight with Kakashi that show he is weak without his power-ups.

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You could even see the parallel to emphasize it. Even sasuke fought Kakashi 1v1 and didn’t lose. And I used MS as a comparison because none of the MS users have been shown to be able to use a technique of that scale, not even Sasuke who was said to be able to surpass Madara. If you say that Obito doesn’t need the DNA, then logically he should be able to use it with just MS, which wouldn’t make sense.

The scans show 3 tomoe. Are you’re suggesting he switched from 3 tomoe to MS jutsu and Kakashi, who was staring right into his eye and has the same design, didn’t notice? What would be the purp.ose to stay at 3 tomoe any way? He kept MS active in the other scans.

I pray to God this is over.

 

[xxSAGExx]

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Is this enough proof? There are different kinds of power ups from it, they’re not all the same.

I’m simply showing that Obito was weak compared to Madara. You wanted some proof. There’s also the fight with Kakashi that show he is weak without his power-ups.

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You could even see the parallel to emphasize it. Even sasuke fought Kakashi 1v1 and didn’t lose. And I used MS as a comparison because none of the MS users have been shown to be able to use a technique of that scale, not even Sasuke who was said to be able to surpass Madara. If you say that Obito doesn’t need the DNA, then logically he should be able to use it with just MS, which wouldn’t make sense.

The scans show 3 tomoe. Are you’re suggesting he switched from 3 tomoe to MS jutsu and Kakashi, who was staring right into his eye and has the same design, didn’t notice? What would be the purp.ose to stay at 3 tomoe any way? He kept MS active in the other scans.

I pray to God this is over.

Well you can't really use the Obito VS Kakashi because they weren't fighting 1 on 1. Obito couldn't use Kamui because Naruto, Bee and Guy would attack from the other side. Also neither one was at full power. Kakashi was fighting for 1-2 days with little to no rest while Obito was focusing his chakra in controlling 6 edo Jinchuurikis which was hard as shown by him having trouble. He was using the 6 path is his Rinnegan. He summoned Gedo Mezo to put the Bijuu back then used Kamui while fighting Naruto, Guy, Kakashi and Bee (mostly the other 3). Also have to add that Kurama gave Kakashi chakra and healed him and Kakashi later mentioned that his power increased 3x as much thanks to Naruto/Kurama.

 

[KidGamer65]

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Is this enough proof? There are different kinds of power ups from it, they’re not all the same.

This can be achieved via any kind of strong chakra powerup. Kabuto did the same with Orochimaru's chakra, so no, this isn't a special property of Hashirama's DNA.

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So no, you are wrong.

I’m simply showing that Obito was weak compared to Madara. You wanted some proof. There’s also the fight with Kakashi that show he is weak without his power-ups.

He doesn't need to be as strong as Madara to use a Katon the size of the ones he uses. Get that stupid thought out of your head.

You could even see the parallel to emphasize it. Even sasuke fought Kakashi 1v1 and didn’t lose. And I used MS as a comparison because none of the MS users have been shown to be able to use a technique of that scale, not even Sasuke who was said to be able to surpass Madara. If you say that Obito doesn’t need the DNA, then logically he should be able to use it with just MS, which wouldn’t make sense.

None of the nonsense in this post makes any sense.

-Obito sucking at Taijutsu doesn't mean he can't use a Katon technique, that's idiotic.

-Sasuke isn't Obito, stop comparing the two.

Your shitty logic is Sasuke is better than Obito at Taijutsu so since he can't use a Katon of that scale, Obito can't either. You make no sense.

What does MS have to do with using a Katon? Nothing. What does Sasuke surpassing Madara have to do with using a Katon? Nothing.

Any more stupid comparisons you make are going to be ignored, until you prove that Hashirama's DNA enhanced the power of Obito's jutsu, then you have no argument here. Simple as that.

The scans show 3 tomoe. Are you’re suggesting he switched from 3 tomoe to MS jutsu and Kakashi, who was staring right into his eye and has the same design, didn’t notice? What would be the purp.ose to stay at 3 tomoe any way? He kept MS active in the other scans.

I pray to God this is over.

The scans show 3-Tomoe when Kamui is in use. I asked for a scan that showed him using Kamui with 3-Tomoe active, a scan you haven't shown at all.

 

[LeSauce]

This can be achieved via any kind of strong chakra powerup. Kabuto did the same with Orochimaru's chakra, so no, this isn't a special property of Hashirama's DNA.

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So no, you are wrong.


He doesn't need to be as strong as Madara to use a Katon the size of the ones he uses. Get that stupid thought out of your head.



None of the nonsense in this post makes any sense.

-Obito sucking at Taijutsu doesn't mean he can't use a Katon technique, that's idiotic.

-Sasuke isn't Obito, stop comparing the two.

Your shitty logic is Sasuke is better than Obito at Taijutsu so since he can't use a Katon of that scale, Obito can't either. You make no sense.

What does MS have to do with using a Katon? Nothing. What does Sasuke surpassing Madara have to do with using a Katon? Nothing.

Any more stupid comparisons you make are going to be ignored, until you prove that Hashirama's DNA enhanced the power of Obito's jutsu, then you have no argument here. Simple as that.



The scans show 3-Tomoe when Kamui is in use. I asked for a scan that showed him using Kamui with 3-Tomoe active, a scan you haven't shown at all.

I'm wrong because it's not the only thing that can do it? I never said any of this was exclusive to the DNA and you can't take a feat away because something else can do it; It's a power up given by it.

How does he not when you yourself said stronger chakra strengthens techniques. How would Obito create such a feat when he's significantly weaker than him.

That was just to show he was weaker.

I included MS because MS gives the user stronger chakra. Stronger chakra means stronger jutsu. I compare MS Sasuke to Obito to show that a more skilled Uchiha, with stronger chakra( was compared to Madara's), couldn't create such a feat with MS, how would Obito, who was never noted for his chakra. Please don't say that Obito trained specifically on his Katon.

But what does chakra have to do with Katon? Everything. And what does MS do to the users chakra?

You're asking for a scan that doesn't exist. That's like me asking for you to show me a page that specifically states Obito could use the Katon without Hashirama'a DNA. That's why we look at the context, how would neither Sasuke nor Kakshi notice him using Mangekyo when they were staring directly into his eye?

I don't know why you're arguing when you even said stronger chakra=stronger jutsu and Hashirama's chakra is one of the, if not the strongest chakra out there. Just look at what it did to the Uchiha shrine.

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[KidGamer65]

I'm wrong because it's not the only thing that can do it? I never said any of this was exclusive to the DNA and you can't take a feat away because something else can do it; It's a power up given by it.

You argued Hashirama's DNA increases the power of techniques, using it powering ET's binding as a feat, when Orochimaru's chakra powered it when Kabuto got it, makes no damn sense, cause that isn't because of the properties of the DNA, unless you want to tell me Oro's chakra will power anyone up.

How does he not when you yourself said stronger chakra strengthens techniques. How would Obito create such a feat when he's significantly weaker than him.

Stronger Chakra is different from more chakra, which is what Hashirama's DNA gives. It doesn't increase the strength of the person's chakra.
That was just to show he was weaker.

I included MS because MS gives the user stronger chakra. Stronger chakra means stronger jutsu. I compare MS Sasuke to Obito to show that a more skilled Uchiha, with stronger chakra( was compared to Madara's), couldn't create such a feat with MS, how would Obito, who was never noted for his chakra. Please don't say that Obito trained specifically on his Katon.

MS doesn't give the user a stronger chakra, again, where are you pulling this nonsense from?

But what does chakra have to do with Katon? Everything. And what does MS do to the users chakra?

You're asking for a scan that doesn't exist. That's like me asking for you to show me a page that specifically states Obito could use the Katon without Hashirama'a DNA. That's why we look at the context, how would neither Sasuke nor Kakshi notice him using Mangekyo when they were staring directly into his eye?

It doesn't exist, so you're wrong. Simple as that pal. Kamui is an MS technique so he used MS with all of them as their is no scan or anything else that hits otherwise.

His mask hides his eye until he wants it to be shown. Why don't I just ask you why they didn't notice his Sharingan until he wanted them to notice it?

Kakashi didn't notice his Sharingan until this scan, even though he was fighting him the whole chapter.

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I don't know why you're arguing when you even said stronger chakra=stronger jutsu and Hashirama's chakra is one of the, if not the strongest chakra out there. Just look at what it did to the Uchiha shrine.

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Hashirama's DNA boosts chakra and physical energy, you are going to need proof that people with his DNA have their chakra strength boosted by his DNA.

Not to mention I never said stronger chakra=stronger jutsu, where are you getting this crap from? I said Edo Tensei can be powered up by an enhancement of strong chakra, as seen with Orochimaru's chakra and Hashirama's DNA.