Weakest Hokage: Tsunade vs Hiruzen

[Tartarus]

Hiruzen wins via baseless enma wank
No wait, hiruzen loses by feats

 

[startup97]

Enma solos Tsunade.

 

[Draegod]

Saru wins! What kind of shit is this?????

 

[Rainbow Dash]

And techniques that would actually put her down. And a way to avoid getting killed in her AoE.

Hiruzen already has those two things.

With a good amount of stamina, Hiruzen can make at least 20 clones. Kakashi with a 3 in stamina and worn out after his battle with Zabuza was still able to make

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from what I can count. We all know that Shadow Clones can be used as

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to be able to use RDS multiple times. Fuinjutsu is a great counter to Byakugou as fuinjutsu bypasses her durability. 1 RDS is enough to bypass Byakugou's durability, there is no chance that Tsunade can take on 21+ RDS users when all of Hiruzen's clones are massively superior in Taijutsu and Speed. Which brings me to my next point, Hiruzen's underestimated speed.

Hiruzen has showcased massively superior speed feats than Tsunade, being able to

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when headed towards the battlefield. By this panel, Hiruzen's movement speed is on par with Hashirama and Tobirama's movement speed, both who are top tier in speed and easily faster than Tsunade. Hashirama on his feet was able to outrun the Perfect Susanoo and the Kyuubi to the shoreline. Tobirama was able to bypass Obito's senses and tag him, something that not even Amaterasu could do. Hiruzen by scaling his speed to Hashirama and Tobirama is easily one of the fastest characters in the story, much faster than Tsunade.

Hiruzen can also use the formation of the

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. This is a variant of the

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that the Sound 4 used. All Hiruzen needs to use this is 4 clones. If 4 Chunnin level shinobi can use it, 4 Hokage level clones should also be able to use it. In fact, the Sound 4's barrier would be large enough to trap both Tsunade and Katsuyu. Seeing as how the barrier can tank the Juubi's country buster, Tsunade has no way out of it.

Regarding C-Rank Katon, sure it's weak; but that doesn't mean it can't be used to kill Tsunade. Say Tsunade gets trapped inside Hiruzen's barrier, then Hiruzen can do the following: Set the Place on Fire. You might argue that C-Rank Katon doesn't have enough temperature to even scratch Tsunade, but people fail to realize that Hiruzen has the capabilities of raising the temperature of his Katon: and that is by utulizing his utility and Enma. Metals such as shuriken are great conductors of heat and would greatly raise the temperature of his Katon. What is devastating about this is that the databook says Hiruzen's jutsu allows him to create 1000 Shuriken. 1000 giant Shuriken would massively increase the temperature of his Katon. Not only that, but Enma is diamond. Diamond is also a great conductor of heat. Enma's staff form can also shape-shift into great sizes, allowing it to increase the heat even more. Byakugou has a

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. By setting Tsunade's area on fire, she would burn at a constant rate, thus hastening the cell division even faster. Not only that, but by setting the inside of the barrier on fire; all the oxygen molecules around her gone.

More Byakugou weak points? I'd be glad to inform you. A big weakness is that the chakra that supplies Byakugou comes from the

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. The shinobi body comprises of

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, a few of them are in the forehead area. Sure Hiruzen can't see chakra points, but if he were to sub-consciously strike the chakra point in which her Byakugou releases from, then the jutsu would stop.

Tsunade dies a slow painful death.

 

[Souji]

Hiruzen would win with high difficulty.

It's important to note that Hiruzen is Tsunade's Sensei, it would be preposterous if he didn't have counters to her techniques.

 

[aimop95]

Spoiler

Hiruzen already has those two things.

With a good amount of stamina, Hiruzen can make at least 20 clones. Kakashi with a 3 in stamina and worn out after his battle with Zabuza was still able to make

You must be registered for see links

from what I can count. We all know that Shadow Clones can be used as

You must be registered for see links

to be able to use RDS multiple times. Fuinjutsu is a great counter to Byakugou as fuinjutsu bypasses her durability. 1 RDS is enough to bypass Byakugou's durability, there is no chance that Tsunade can take on 21+ RDS users when all of Hiruzen's clones are massively superior in Taijutsu and Speed. Which brings me to my next point, Hiruzen's underestimated speed.

Hiruzen has showcased massively superior speed feats than Tsunade, being able to

You must be registered for see links

when headed towards the battlefield. By this panel, Hiruzen's movement speed is on par with Hashirama and Tobirama's movement speed, both who are top tier in speed and easily faster than Tsunade. Hashirama on his feet was able to outrun the Perfect Susanoo and the Kyuubi to the shoreline. Tobirama was able to bypass Obito's senses and tag him, something that not even Amaterasu could do. Hiruzen by scaling his speed to Hashirama and Tobirama is easily one of the fastest characters in the story, much faster than Tsunade.

Hiruzen can also use the formation of the

You must be registered for see links

. This is a variant of the

You must be registered for see links

that the Sound 4 used. All Hiruzen needs to use this is 4 clones. If 4 Chunnin level shinobi can use it, 4 Hokage level clones should also be able to use it. In fact, the Sound 4's barrier would be large enough to trap both Tsunade and Katsuyu. Seeing as how the barrier can tank the Juubi's country buster, Tsunade has no way out of it.

Regarding C-Rank Katon, sure it's weak; but that doesn't mean it can't be used to kill Tsunade. Say Tsunade gets trapped inside Hiruzen's barrier, then Hiruzen can do the following: Set the Place on Fire. You might argue that C-Rank Katon doesn't have enough temperature to even scratch Tsunade, but people fail to realize that Hiruzen has the capabilities of raising the temperature of his Katon: and that is by utulizing his utility and Enma. Metals such as shuriken are great conductors of heat and would greatly raise the temperature of his Katon. What is devastating about this is that the databook says Hiruzen's jutsu allows him to create 1000 Shuriken. 1000 giant Shuriken would massively increase the temperature of his Katon. Not only that, but Enma is diamond. Diamond is also a great conductor of heat. Enma's staff form can also shape-shift into great sizes, allowing it to increase the heat even more. Byakugou has a

You must be registered for see links

. By setting Tsunade's area on fire, she would burn at a constant rate, thus hastening the cell division even faster. Not only that, but by setting the inside of the barrier on fire; all the oxygen molecules around her gone.

More Byakugou weak points? I'd be glad to inform you. A big weakness is that the chakra that supplies Byakugou comes from the

You must be registered for see links

. The shinobi body comprises of

You must be registered for see links

, a few of them are in the forehead area. Sure Hiruzen can't see chakra points, but if he were to sub-consciously strike the chakra point in which her Byakugou releases from, then the jutsu would stop.

Tsunade dies a slow painful death.

Assuming she can be trapped.

Really though, we simply haven't seen enough feats from him. And his legend has been downplayed a lot.

 

[Bantos]

Tsunade takes him mid diff. It's possible that she doesn't even need byakugo to do that.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Assuming she can be trapped.

Really though, we simply haven't seen enough feats from him. And his legend has been downplayed a lot.

I don't see how it would be too difficult for clones who are all massively faster to blitz Tsunade and trap her in a square formation. Tsunade had a hard time

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for Christs sake.

 

[aimop95]

I don't see how it would be too difficult for clones who are all massively faster to blitz Tsunade and trap her in a square formation. Tsunade had a hard time

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for Christs sake.

Most people tend to dodge a lot faster when their life is on the line. Kabuto most definitely was feeling it until he found her weakness.


Also, your barrier theory has some holes in it.

The Four Red Yang is a Hokage level variation. It's like doing Shadow clones, except creating a 7 nation army with them.
The Four Purple Flames is no where near that level.

4 Hokages (the original ones, not their clones) were needed to activate the Four Red Yang barrier. Clones do no possess the same amount of chakra the original does, because if they did, most ninja's wouldn't have to risk their lives after learning this attack. So Hiruzen would need four "Literal" (biological) clones of himself to bring up the barrier.

That said, even he somehow did mange to pull it off (an impossible feat for any one Hokage in any case). It all depends on Tsunade's healing factor, which is quite faster than most people realize. Now while you all made good points for Hiruzen making things extremely hot for Tsunade, you're assuming she won't do something about the fire. Punching the ground to make a localized earthquake creates tons of soil that effectively smother the flames and Hiruzen so far hasn't show the capability of creating a flash fire so hot it incapacitates Tsunade instantly.

Byakugou may have a long term disadvantage, however, Tsunade has been placed in multiple situations where she has used it and not died because old age finally caught up with her. The same can be said of this battle. Simply put, relying on this to kick in is a fools game. No one knows when she's going to die in the middle of a battle due to old age. All we know is that she'll probably die looking a lot younger than most Hokages who went before her.

Hitting chakra points is a rare feat, almost impossible to accomplish unless one can see them. Hiruzen has a significantly greater chance of burning Tusnade alive AND killing her than hitting that one specific point on her forehead. He's not going to risk getting punched through the chest for one attack that may or may not work.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

The Four Red Yang is a Hokage level variation. It's like doing Shadow clones, except creating a 7 nation army with them.
The Four Purple Flames is no where near that level.

The Four Purple Flames was stated that it's powerful enough to trap both Orochimaru and Hiruzen in. Both who are Kage level

I was also using the Four Purple Flames as a lowball. We know that this type of barrier can vary size.

4 Hokages (the original ones, not their clones) were needed to activate the Four Red Yang barrier. Clones do no possess the same amount of chakra the original does, because if they did, most ninja's wouldn't have to risk their lives after learning this attack. So Hiruzen would need four "Literal" (biological) clones of himself to bring up the barrier.

I never said Hiruzen can make the same one to trap the Juubi.

Hashirama himself can maintain the barrier while having several clones out. Now the benefiting part about Hiruzen's current feats that it truly is low rank. It requires little to no chakra tax. Which is why I still believe he can use several Katon utulized with his clones while having a small barrier active.

That said, even he somehow did mange to pull it off (an impossible feat for any one Hokage in any case). It all depends on Tsunade's healing factor, which is quite faster than most people realize. Now while you all made good points for Hiruzen making things extremely hot for Tsunade, you're assuming she won't do something about the fire. Punching the ground to make a localized earthquake creates tons of soil that effectively smother the flames and Hiruzen so far hasn't show the capability of creating a flash fire so hot it incapacitates Tsunade instantly.

Well, the OP does not even state the location in this one. but w/e

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, Tsunade has very limited movement when regenerating against full body area attack. She stayed in the exact same posture for 5 whole panels.

Byakugou may have a long term disadvantage, however, Tsunade has been placed in multiple situations where she has used it and not died because old age finally caught up with her. The same can be said of this battle. Simply put, relying on this to kick in is a fools game. No one knows when she's going to die in the middle of a battle due to old age. All we know is that she'll probably die looking a lot younger than most Hokages who went before her.

That was notreally my argument. My argument is that the cells would divide faster, thus forcing Byakugou to pump out more chakra. The weakness of is that it doesn't last long. And the more chakra you use, the shorter it becomes.

Hitting chakra points is a rare feat, almost impossible to accomplish unless one can see them. Hiruzen has a significantly greater chance of burning Tusnade alive AND killing her than hitting that one specific point on her forehead. He's not going to risk getting punched through the chest for one attack that may or may not work.

Clean the brain with a Kunai, it's guaranteed to destroy a point.

 

[TheEvilOne]

Hiruzen has jounin level feats, lmao.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Jounin level feats?

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Kushina is 38 px 1.65 m tall.

Which scales the 321 px rock to 14 m.

Rock is 33 px 14m tall.

Which scales the 721 px Kurama to 306 m.

Kyuubi was on all fours when he was pushed by Enma. On all fours, about 150-200m from ground to ears.

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Red Fox is 4.9-31 pounds, half a meter tall.

Makes the Kyuubi 300-400 times taller.

Now getting the weight of Kurama:

300^3*4.9 = 132300000 pounds

132300000 pounds/2000 per ton = 66150 tons

400^3*4.9 = 313600000 pounds

313600000 pounds/2000 per ton = 156800 tons

300^3*31 = 837000000 pounds

837000000 pounds/2000 per ton = 418500 tons

400^3*31 = 1984000000 pounds

1984000000 pounds/2000 per ton = 992000 tons

That's the Kyuubi's weight. Ranging.

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Is Enma pushing back something that weighs dozens of megatons only a Jonin level feat?

When has Tsunade ever done anything that is more impressive than pushing dozens of megatons several hundred meters behind.

Tsunade would get flattened if she was fighting flashback Hiruzen, let alone Prime Hiruzen.

 

[TheEvilOne]

That was Enma and not Hiruzen

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Enma is Hiruzen's arsenal. That's like saying Katsuyu isn't Tsunades power.

 

[TheEvilOne]

Enma is Hiruzen's arsenal. That's like saying Katsuyu isn't Tsunades power.

But Tsunade is Kage level even without her summon, unlike Hiruzen.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

I guess Sakura is also Kage level with that logic. (though she obviously isn't)

 

[TheEvilOne]

I guess Sakura is also Kage level with that logic. (though she obviously isn't)

Sakura is somewhere on part1 Tsunade's level. She reached Tsunade's level only in physical strength and chakra control ( Byakugou seal ). She still can't use forbidden techniques like Byakugou or Sozo Saize. Not to mention her chakra reserves ( even with the seal ) aren't that high as Tsunade's. And there is also the question of battle experience.

 

[UchiGod Itachi]

What did people just say he has no features hiruzen yeah ok lol

No features really his best feature was shown while being revived.


A Giant Juubi tail beast bomb Killer bee in his bijuu form shooting countless beast bomb couldn't stop it with the help of a whole army using how many earth style barrier walls.

Spoiler

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also all those ninja had kurama chakra also when making earth barriers it neva left

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Hiruzen side of the Four Red Suns Battle Encampment barrier was still held up now so im guessing that wasn't a feature on that of that Hiruzen was using earth style barriers since part one lmao

Spoiler

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Hiruzen key features are always skipped if people paid more attention they'd see it hiruzen takes this mid to high diff

 

[Bantos]

I don't see how it would be too difficult for clones who are all massively faster to blitz Tsunade and trap her in a square formation. Tsunade had a hard time

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for Christs sake.

And still she killed MADARA once. And moved faster than Mei's handseals or Gaara's sand. Or A.

 

[Draegod]

Hiruzen wins! Simple!