What's with the hype on the 2nd and 3rd Hokage?

[startup97]

Hiruzen: because when a 60 year old msn fights the watered down 1st and 2nd Hokage (who were still OP) and basically prime Orochimaru and manages to literally **** over Orochimaru by taking his ninjutsu (rendering him nearly useless)...that's no big deal. And more so Hiruzen was said to be the strongest of his time

Hiruzen: 3rd Raikage, 3rd Mizuksge, Oonoiki (younger so stronger), and the 3rd Kazekage.

Those guys are freaking haaxed as shit.



Kinkaku and Ginkaku


You HORRIBLY underrated them. On the first division battlefield....not a single individual or two msn team held a candle to them. They literally shit on Darui, Atsui, and Samui. It took plot changing his favorite spirit word for Darui to win.



As such...Tobirama

1. Minato and Kabuto/Orochimaru do not have their greatest abilities without him

After that, Edo, FTG, Suiton, Kenjutsu, Taijutsu: Tobirams was notably skilled in ALL of these by the way he uses them. He's easily one of if not the most omnipotent characters in Naruto....possibly only losing to Kabuto.

His death was against 20 elite shinobi. Basically you had Ginkaku and Kinkaku who were Haax as shit...and 18 people probably on Kakashi's level if not higher.

To make it worse...he wasn't fighting them, bit distracting and CONTAINING them. Ever try to fight with your hands tied behind your back because that's basically what he was doing.



So no, Hiruzen and Tobirams are monsters. Tobirama cannot be a watered down Minato because he INVENTED THE MOVE. He also uses other things than FTG which is more to say than Minato who revolves around it.



That's what the big desl is about them. They are badass, and you aren't giving them credit.

you nailed it!

 

[Armathyx]

Bold: that is just stupid logic. While it may be true for a few, it is not the basic rule. If it was then this would be true

Anko> Orchimaru
Kakashi>Minato
Sakura>Kakashi
Ino> Asuma
Tenten > Guy

Also EVEN if its true, wouldnt that mean that Hiruzen> Tobirama and Hashirama since they taught him. You kinda contradicting urself there

Also the on the first sentence/para. It has been stated Hiruzen was called the God of Shinobi in his prime by Oro and databook 1+2, strongest of the hokage by Iruka, and strongest kage at his death by kabuto

I dont know where u got people saying Tobirama= Hashirama since it has been statd many times he was the strongest shinobi of his time which included tobirama. otherwise he is pretty badass, created EDo and FTG, and the coolest looking hokage IMO.

Anko was not Orochimaru's main disciple, it was Sasuke. Sasuke at the moment seems to be stronger than Orochimaru.
Kakashi and Minato... well, true Minato is very strong, but I'd go as far as saying Kakashi is a more succesful shinobi than Minato.
Sakura, again, she is not Kakashi's main disciple, she's Tsunade's disciple, and Kishi has been hinting that she's surpassed Tsunade. For as much as I dislike that fact, it seems to be true.
Ino>Asuma no, but Asuma himself admited that his 3 students as a team surpassed him. They're meant to be a team, they're useless alone.
Tenten>Guy, yet again Guy's main apprentice is Rock Lee and we might see him surpass Guy, it's unknown.

Databook is not a valid argument. It makes itself obsolete by contradicting the manga with stuff like Jirayia > Orochimaru when there's a fight in the manga between them two in which the latter wins. I don't care what the characters say. What matters is the outcome of battles, and so far all I've seen from Hiruzen is that he's good at getting his ass kicked.

They were not presented as "fodder kage"

1. Hiruzen KNOWS their full power so if anything st first he's thinking...SHIT.

2. During the fight, they note Tobirams using Suiton from nothing

3. Hashirama creates a Damn forest
They may not have been at full power... And was confirmed to be a FRACTION...but they still were keeping him going at a mere 10% strength. Also, didn't you just help my case. Orochimaru was MATCHING Hiruzen one on one....pretty good for an old man...once again...old man not young prime youth.


Once again....Darui only won because of PLOT...Darui was being pulled into the gourd GAME OVER. Then the plot says even though a sealing process is already occurring, he can change his word and get a get out of raped free card, and proceeds to surprise the brothers...who at the time had never encountered this.

Additionally, Kinkaku was in a blind rage sonaturally he was being careless. Even then it took a unique sage weapon to stop him....also, don't underestimate the Mind Transfer jutsu.

As for his jutsu...the fact they differ from those who mastered them doesn't make INVENTING them any less of a notable fest. Furthermore, he implemented them differently.

1. Because his Edos were not complete, he formed a infinite exploding talisman jutsu to make them usefull...with a titanic explosion.

2. He mainly used FTG with Kenjutsu for the Hiraishingiri.

3. He died young so theoretically he may have mastered these had he spent more time on them...and not...I don't know....sacrificing himself against the Kinkaku force.

Also, the only difference in FTG is that Minato has made the time barrier and the tagged Kunai, BUT, considering Hiraishingiri..plausible weapon attachments. And considering Tobirams mentions he can teleport a TBB...an equivalent of S/T Barrier.

But remember Tobirams is actually a Suiton user which means that everything he's shown us so far isn't even his forteit.

Lastly, Tobirams and Hashirama fight differently. Tobirams approaches with more notable one on one techniques where Hashirama produces massive scale techniques.

Despite this, Kakuzu, who was young and had no Earth Grudge Fear, Survived his fight with Hashirama, and so Ginkaku and Kinkaku probably wouldn't get raped...but still defeated due to the additional powers of Mokuton on tailed beasts and chakra absorption in general.


So once again you discredit the Hokage: Tobirama and Hiruzen

"Hashirama creates a forest" yes, on a rooftop, he had enough room to create 2-3 trees and you compare that to a "forest"?

Naruto was also on a blind rage against Pain, and it seemed to help him, didn't it? That argument doesn't work, 6 tail mode makes him stronger, not weaker.

 

[startup97]

Anko was not Orochimaru's main disciple, it was Sasuke. Sasuke at the moment seems to be stronger than Orochimaru.
Kakashi and Minato... well, true Minato is very strong, but I'd go as far as saying Kakashi is a more succesful shinobi than Minato.
Sakura, again, she is not Kakashi's main disciple, she's Tsunade's disciple, and Kishi has been hinting that she's surpassed Tsunade. For as much as I dislike that fact, it seems to be true.
Ino>Asuma no, but Asuma himself admited that his 3 students as a team surpassed him. They're meant to be a team, they're useless alone.
Tenten>Guy, yet again Guy's main apprentice is Rock Lee and we might see him surpass Guy, it's unknown.

Databook is not a valid argument. It makes itself obsolete by contradicting the manga with stuff like Jirayia > Orochimaru when there's a fight in the manga between them two in which the latter wins. I don't care what the characters say. What matters is the outcome of battles, and so far all I've seen from Hiruzen is that he's good at getting his ass kicked.



"Hashirama creates a forest" yes, on a rooftop, he had enough room to create 2-3 trees and you compare that to a "forest"?

Naruto was also on a blind rage against Pain, and it seemed to help him, didn't it? That argument doesn't work, 6 tail mode makes him stronger, not weaker.

Don't underestimate Tobirama and Hiruzen. Lord First trusted them for a reason!

 

[Ovan]

All the kages deserve some respect. They gave up their lives to keep their villagers safe. Tobirama has great feats that placed him in the position to be Hokage. 3rd was more then good enough to be called a Hokage. It's the will of fire that makes them so strong. Who at the time could fight Orochimaru in the leaf during the time period? No one. The 3rd kept the village safe. Tobirama kept his team alive by risking his life. The story of those brothers probaly came from the battles Tobirama and other people in the past had with those two. The twins "won" due to the fact that Tobirama was facing 20 elite ninja at once. He knew he was dead but he wanted his team to get out alive. Hero's deserve the hype that the fans think/ know they earned. Case closed.

 

[hunk143]

Don't underestimate Tobirama and Hiruzen. Lord First trusted them for a reason!

Your Sig own this thread itself.

 

[Percy Jackson]

Hiruzen: because when a 60 year old msn fights the watered down 1st and 2nd Hokage (who were still OP) and basically prime Orochimaru and manages to literally **** over Orochimaru by taking his ninjutsu (rendering him nearly useless)...that's no big deal. And more so Hiruzen was said to be the strongest of his time

Hiruzen: 3rd Raikage, 3rd Mizuksge, Oonoiki (younger so stronger), and the 3rd Kazekage.

Those guys are freaking haaxed as shit.



Kinkaku and Ginkaku


You HORRIBLY underrated them. On the first division battlefield....not a single individual or two msn team held a candle to them. They literally shit on Darui, Atsui, and Samui. It took plot changing his favorite spirit word for Darui to win.



As such...Tobirama

1. Minato and Kabuto/Orochimaru do not have their greatest abilities without him

After that, Edo, FTG, Suiton, Kenjutsu, Taijutsu: Tobirams was notably skilled in ALL of these by the way he uses them. He's easily one of if not the most omnipotent characters in Naruto....possibly only losing to Kabuto.

His death was against 20 elite shinobi. Basically you had Ginkaku and Kinkaku who were Haax as shit...and 18 people probably on Kakashi's level if not higher.

To make it worse...he wasn't fighting them, bit distracting and CONTAINING them. Ever try to fight with your hands tied behind your back because that's basically what he was doing.



So no, Hiruzen and Tobirams are monsters. Tobirama cannot be a watered down Minato because he INVENTED THE MOVE. He also uses other things than FTG which is more to say than Minato who revolves around it.



That's what the big desl is about them. They are badass, and you aren't giving them credit.

All of them is true, except The bold part. Kabuto stated that madara gain portion of hashi's power. Madara him self also admit he got a portion of hashi.'s power. And yet again Madara's Jukai koutan is >>>>>> hashi's Jukai Koutan in part 1. Hashi's power at part 1 is more or less like yamato's lv.

The 3rd was indeed a kage lv. Ninja. It's weird that some pepole says he's a fodder.