"Prime" Hiruzen will save everyone?
- Thread starter Mellanoma
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foxyladyland
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Hiruzen's shuriken, fire ball and mud balls can solo Juubito low dif and if he really wants to fodderize we might even get to witness Hiruzen's bankai. So Obito better hope Hiruzen died on that last attack or he'll be screwed once Hiruzen finishes regenerating his old ass. 
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Before Obito gained true control of the Juubi, he was using the form which Hiruzen had deducted to be something like Oonoki's Dust Release, then when he gained control, he threw Yin-Yang into the mix.
Sacrosanct
Active member
It's a shame that the same Hiruzen admitted inferiority to Part 1 Orochimaru, you could've been right if it weren't for his own words disagreeing with you.
Sacrosanct
Active member
He's still restricted to the amount he had whilst alive; Muu was not able to use jinton after splitting himself due to a lack of chakra and the Nidaime Mizukage was forced to flee while Jokey Boy was active because he was out of chakra.He has unlimited chakra now though.
Sacrosanct
Active member
No, he outright said that nobody in the village could stand up to Orochimaru, more likely than not including himself as well:
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Also, did you not realize that they were brought back only to torture Hiruzen for Orochimaru's sadistic pleasure? I've already explained how many opportunities Orochimaru had to win that fight easily, but he didn't take them because he was honestly having too much fun torturing the old man:
So there you have it.
Who cares if he admitted inferiority at his old age.
1. He was older (far passed him golden years) so how would expect a old man to be stronger than his young apprentice.
2. Orochimaru at the time was in his part 1 prime. He had access to an insane arsenal of justu and most of which were probally finjutsu.
You go around all the time making these comments that hiruzen admitted inferiority to orochimaru, as if orochimaru is a weak shinobi. OROCHIARU IS HOKAGE LEVEL. Which is why hiruzen wanted him to be hokage in the first place. The guy(oro) was cripple and taking out of his prime and still toyed with a 4 tailed raging naruto (easily) and tanked a TBB. The same 4 tailed narutp which fataly wounded jiraiya.
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So you should stop trying to underrate hiruzen by underrating orochimaru's strength, because you seem as though you have no idea how powerful orochimaru really is.
And the fact that hiruzen(old) was able to hold his own and stalemate with orochiamaru(orime) is a testament to hiruzens strength. Part 1 failed to show the true strength of the shinobi world. Now is the time to see hiruzens true strength because shippuden is a more power flexing manga.
With that being said. STOP TROLLING!!!!!!
Sacrosanct
Active member
Hiruzen was old? Are you kidding me? That's the only Hiruzen that we've seen, and likely the only Hiruzen that we'll ever see, so don't even bring that up. Did Onoki lose to Edo Madara because he was old?
Also, since I know you seem to like to go by manga statements from 500 chapters ago, here's the definition of what it meant to be Hokage back then:
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Coming from someone who thought that Hiruzen was stronger than Tobirama at the time that he was named the Sandaime Hokage and that Hiruzen was stronger than Tobirama, it's all but expected. However, in reality, the same Hiruzen admitted inferiority to Part 1 Orochimaru, and thus we can't expect to see more than him than we have already seen from the likes of Sage Mode Jiraiya and his toads. And don't you dare tell me that Hiruzen would have done better against the Six Paths of Pain than Sage Mode Jiraiya did.
Sennin of Logic
Active member
Title was misleading. I thought this was going to be a fanboy thread. It would be interesting to see what Hiruzen can do, but Naruto's the one who'll save everyone in the next chapter. Otherwise the buildup would be pointless in 643.
haha the build up should have been done 40 chapters ago XD
Thanks I forgot he talked about Oro before fighting him.
Hiruzen is old, and because he was old many people made statement about how he was far stronger in his younger years (anbu,oro,enma,hiruzen). The manga scan you provided clearly shows hiruzen stating he is old now. And please don't forget that hiruzen already relinquished his title as hokage before. He gave it up to minato when he choose to retire. Minato's death cause hiruzen to return, as hiruzen was the strongest in the village once minato died. Had hiruzen or danzo though that hiruzen was to weak to resume his role, they surely would have found another candidate.
Your compairing Edo madara to orochimaru.lol
Onoki was already said to be inferior to hiruzen by orochimaru and kabuto (manfa fact), the only difference between the 2's displayed abilities is that onoki's power was shown in part 2 (where the power scaling was increased), while hiruzen was only shown in part 1. The fact that you intentionally are ignoring the scaling differences shows that you aren't looking at the bigger picture.
EX:
Pt1 oro stalemated hiruzen, meanwhile Pt2 oro toyed with a tailed beast
Pt1 jiraiya struggled against crippled oro, meanwhile Pt2 jiraiya raged on Pain like a boss.
Pt1 kakashi seemed as though he was equal to zabuza, meanwhile Pt2 kakashi showed more impressive feats against kakuzu.
Show me the scan where hiruzen wanted jiraiya or tsunade to become hokage, because ive never seen it. Hiruzen never wanted them.
He wanted Orochimaru:
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Hiruzen was stronger than his comrades. These were the words of both hiruzen and danzo (older). Just because there were in the same squad does not mean they are equal in power. Unless you are suggesting that sakura, sasuke, and naruto are also equal in power??
Hiruzen was leagues ahead of his teammates, which is why tobirama chose him.
The students typically surpass the teacher so Hiruzen was indeed stronger than his teachers. Words of iruka and hiruzen. And its only natural for orochimaru to surpass hiruzen, as oro was hiruzens student who hiruzen favored. But in terms of their battle hiruzen's age was a huge factor as to why it turned out the way it did, and even orochimaru made reference to that twice.
Have a 70 year old kakashi try to fight naruto in his prime and it would indeed be over before the match even had time to begin. The fact that hiruzen stalemated his best student is a huge testament to his strength.
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Sacrosanct
Active member
And that's also the only Hiruzen we've seen, and the only Hiruzen we're likely to ever see. After Minato's death, there was nobody left as Jiraiya had his spy network and Tsunade was a mess who simply saw things from a different perspective (that's the nice way of putting it).
I never said that he wasn't, now did I? See now this is why you thought Hiruzen was stronger than Tobirama at the time. You only read what you want to; in more than one translation it has said that they were all competitors for the title of Sandaime Hokage:
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So, Hiruzen > Sage Mode Hashirama but Orochimaru > Hiruzen? Your logic. Don't go and tell me that Hiruzen would somehow take Sage Mode Hashirama with Shinsuusenju which ripped Perfect Susanoo off of Kurama with ease and put it to sleep when the only Hiruzen that we know wouldn't be able to beat Tsunade (however it's completely possible that he would be able to at his best, due to having more stamina). He's not even messing with the S/T Hokage, don't put him against Hashirama.
See now, no matter how many paragraphs you give me, the fact of the matter is, the same Hiruzen that's on the field right now (although he's not even a significant factor in the battle as of right now, however that may be subject to change) admitted inferiority to Part 1 Orochimaru and thus we can't possibly expect more from him than Sage Mode Jiraiya's Part 2 feats. It would be idiotic to go against his own words.
I agree. Hiruzen is old and that's the only hiruzen that we know.
HAHAHA.
Listen to me carefully man, first I take back what I said earlier about hiruzen at that time being stronger than tobirama because I have no evidence to back that claim up, since I have no idea what that younger hiruzen is capable of.
Second, just because they are all competitors for the title of Sandaime Hokage doesn't mean they are all equal in strength.
Kiba, Shikimaru, Shino, Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura, Lee, and Choji are competitors for the sixth hokage seat. But we all know that they aren't all equal in power.
Honestly bro, Its not for anyone to say yet if or how hiruzen can defeat hashirama. All we know is that it was stated in part one that hiruzen was stronger than hashirama in his prime, but that is the only info we have on the matter. Im not saying that he is stronger than hashirama because I honestly don't know. But manga said he in his prime was in part one and no one has proved otherwise, so its basically up in the air. For all we know hiruzen could have sage mode as well with Enma and have some OP jutsu of there own.
But typically students do surpass their masters, so there is no doubt in my mind that hiruzen surpassed tobirama. And orochimaru is extremely powerful (excluding his edo tension). The only problem is we haven't seen him use his jutsu because they were taken from him and he JUST got them back. But all im saying is you shouldn't knock hiruzen for 2 reasons:
1. He fought oro, hash, and tobirama (whether they were weaker or not) and saved the village by himself. So he fulfilled his duty as hokage at the cost of his own life. For that he desires respect.
2. He hasn't gotten the opportunity like everyone else to display his skills in part 2, where he would undoubtably get a upgrade.
Sennin of Logic
Active member
You do realize Hiruzen didn't outright admit he was weaker, He said "Most likely".
As you said he didn't even know about Oro having Immortality jutsu or edo tensei, He was simply speculating Oro's strength has "most likely" surpassed his own
also
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Sacrosanct
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You got me on that one, however it would still be unfair to say that he was clearly the strongest out of all of them. His rival, Danzo, was only one step behind him his whole life.
Dude, no. Hiruzen is not even touching Hashirama's level. The fact that when Hashirama flared his chakra to stop Tobirama from attacking Sasuke, Hiruzen was scared should say something; Hashirama's depicted as easily the strongest Hokage:
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Hashirama taught Hiruzen as well, going by that logic Hiruzen > Hashirama. Also, that would make Homura and Koharu > Tobirama which is just ludicrous. I'm pretty sure Kakashi didn't surpass Minato.
He was toyed with by them for Orochimaru's sadistic pleasure. They took turns. They stood there while Orochimaru engaged in a kenjutsu battle with the Sandaime Hokage. They did not target the clones of Hiruzen when he was under bringer of darkness, when they easily could have doomed Hiruzen by doing so. They did not use ninjutsu against Hiruzen while he was under bringer of darkness, even when would be very effective. As shown here, Orochimaru could have easily won at multiple points during the fight:
In reality, Hiruzen didn't stand a chance.
That doesn't change the fact that he's inferior to Orochimaru still. Why? Because not only does Orochimaru have his arms back, he's also filled up on Hashirama's cells, and Hiruzen admitted inferiority to Orochimaru pre-Hashirama's cells. The point still stands: we can't expect more from Hiruzen than we could have expected from Sage Mode Jiraiya.
Another thing, Hiruzen may have had more speed and strength as well as stamina at his best, but that really wouldn't help him against the monsters in the Top 10. To break through my Top 10 he would have to beat Bee, which just isn't happening. Also, Hiruzen may be a master at genjutsu, but he couldn't break out of bringer of darkness. There's no way we can put him above Itachi.
That Hiruzen still has the same prowess in genjutsu as the one we know. He wouldn't get past Itachi.
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