Onmyoudon: The Single Most Important Thing in Naruto

[Shadow Phantasm]

May I also add that Kishimoto took direct inspiration from the Onmyōdo/Onmyōji in modeling Rikūdo Sennin and the Uzumaki Clan:

I love your theories Sir Derp Obito.

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

May I also add that Kishimoto took direct inspiration from the Onmyōdo/Onmyōji in modeling Rikūdo Sennin and the Uzumaki Clan:

You know I saw this...and read for hours last night about Onmyoudou.

First of all, great thread. But when reading about it (Onmyoudou) I felt like there were so many answers there I was missing. You mentioned Abe no Seimei who is so insanely close to resembling Naruto and/or what we know about the Sage. But when I continued reading, none of his stories really panned out. What was interesting, like you mentioned, is the Shinigami, and the fact that Onmyouji use them which parallels the Uzumaki masked temple.

I had another theory I was going to write, but decided to go with this one. I was trying to make the argument that Onmyoudou actually stems from the Uzumaki. For whatever reasons, they felt that people would only use Ninshu for war (as they have) and used the Onmyoudon to "seal" the elements from the hands of humanity. It was not until the Sage arrived and thought that his own clan was wrong, and that Ninshu could be used for peace that we see the world-wide use of it. I just couldn't piece together why Obito would be able to use Onmyoudon from becoming Juubi's JIN. Oh well...it seemed like a cool thought for awhile.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

You know I saw this...and read for hours last night about Onmyoudou.

First of all, great thread. But when reading about it (Onmyoudou) I felt like there were so many answers there I was missing. You mentioned Abe no Seimei who is so insanely close to resembling Naruto and/or what we know about the Sage. But when I continued reading, none of his stories really panned out. What was interesting, like you mentioned, is the Shinigami, and the fact that Onmyouji use them which parallels the Uzumaki masked temple.

I had another theory I was going to write, but decided to go with this one. I was trying to make the argument that Onmyoudou actually stems from the Uzumaki. For whatever reasons, they felt that people would only use Ninshu for war (as they have) and used the Onmyoudon to "seal" the elements from the hands of humanity. It was not until the Sage arrived and thought that his own clan was wrong, and that Ninshu could be used for peace that we see the world-wide use of it. I just couldn't piece together why Obito would be able to use Onmyoudon from becoming Juubi's JIN. Oh well...it seemed like a cool thought for awhile.

Because the power and principles of Onmyōdōn did come from the Jūbi, like I have hypothesized before, the Jūbi during Rikūdo's era was a sentient entity and that it was him who taught Rikūdo the mystery of Chakra. Rikūdo in turn taught it to his kinsmen then afterwards preached Ninshū to the rest of the world.

 

[TaBaYo]

I always enjoy ur thread. Each one of dem is spot on nd if anyone understands da manga like this, their manga life would be made easier.

Congrats on this thread too.

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

Because the power and principles of Onmyōdōn did come from the Jūbi, like I have hypothesized before, the Jūbi during Rikūdo's era was a sentient entity and that it was him who taught Rikūdo the mystery of Chakra. Rikūdo in turn taught it to his kinsmen.

One thing I found to be really interesting is Tobirama's knowledge of it. For some reason, it has been lost over the century and it seems like no one has even heard of it since this is the first time we're hearing of it. Tobirama's knowledge, of course, could just be a device used by Kishi to introduce it now, but I wonder where he learned about it. This also stands to reason Madara and Hashirama know about it as well...

EDIT: To reply to your actual post. Yeah, the prospect of the Juubi and Sage interacting as friendly parties is something I have been thinking about for awhile. Is it possible the Sage betrayed it? And that is why it attacks a similar looking Naruto? I've thought this was a cool idea for awhile, the facts just don't exist to support that right now.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

One thing I found to be really interesting is Tobirama's knowledge of it. For some reason, it has been lost over the century and it seems like no one has even heard of it since this is the first time we're hearing of it. Tobirama's knowledge, of course, could just be a device used by Kishi to introduce it now, but I wonder where he learned about it. This also stands to reason Madara and Hashirama know about it as well...

Most probably from Mito and her Clan. The Fūin no Sho or the Scroll of Seals is from the Uzumaki Clan, and that is the very scroll seen in Rikudou's effigy:

Spoiler

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[Tebows Youth Group]

Most probably from Mito and her Clan. The Fūin no Sho or the Scroll of Seals is from the Uzumaki Clan, and that is the very scroll seen in Rikudou's effigy:

Spoiler

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Oh hell yeah. I don't know why I didn't think of that. That almost has to be the case.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

To reply to your actual post. Yeah, the prospect of the Juubi and Sage interacting as friendly parties is something I have been thinking about for awhile. Is it possible the Sage betrayed it? And that is why it attacks a similar looking Naruto? I've thought this was a cool idea for awhile, the facts just don't exist to support that right now.

They were most assuredly friends who became enemies in the end (eg. Hashirama and Madara) The betrayer was not actually Rikudou, but humanity itself, Jiraiya said that Ninshuu was originally intended as tools for peace, but man used it as a means for war, the Juubi seeing this, decided to eradicate humanity for their sins, but Rikudou still wanted to believe in humanity and sought to protect them.

 

[TaBaYo]

Most probably from Mito and her Clan. The Fūin no Sho or the Scroll of Seals is from the Uzumaki Clan, and that is the very scroll seen in Rikudou's effigy:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Good catch Derp....i luv it wen two manga understanding guys disccuss manga theories not like fanboys nd trolls.

This is what NB discussion is about. Kudos.

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

They were most assuredly friends who became enemies in the end (eg. Hashirama and Madara) The betrayer was not actually Rikudou, but humanity itself, Jiraiya said that Ninshuu was originally intended as tools for peace, but man used it as a means for war, the Juubi seeing this, decided to eradicate humanity for their sins, but Rikudou still wanted to believe in humanity and sought to protect them.

Soo if I have this correct

Sage meets Juubi ----> Juubi and Sage are friends ----> Juubi teaches Sage secrets of chakra, Onmyoudon -----> Sage teaches his fellow man------> Man uses it for war ------ > Juubi decides to end humanity -------> Sage steps in, using the Juubi's own teachings against him ----> Juubi is defeated ------> 100's of years of war ensue.

If that's what youre saying I most definitely agree. I wonder then about fuinjutsu, as some one pointed out earlier. Was this a knowledge the Juubi didn't know? We see the Mazou ripping out the souls of people in what seems like a sealing. So where do the Uzumaki's abilities fall into this?

EDIT: Also where does Senjutsu come in to play? I am still under the belief that this was something the Sage had prior to their meeting. Are you saying the Juubi taught him to collect Natural Chakra? Or was it the Sage Animals?

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Soo if I have this correct

Sage meets Juubi ----> Juubi and Sage are friends ----> Juubi teaches Sage secrets of chakra, Onmyoudon -----> Sage teaches his fellow man------> Man uses it for war ------ > Juubi decides to end humanity -------> Sage steps in, using the Juubi's own teachings against him ----> Juubi is defeated ------> 100's of years of war ensue.

If that's what youre saying I most definitely agree. I wonder then about fuinjutsu, as some one pointed out earlier. Was this a knowledge the Juubi didn't know? We see the Mazou ripping out the souls of people in what seems like a sealing. So where do the Uzumaki's abilities fall into this?

EDIT: Also where does Senjutsu come in to play? I am still under the belief that this was something the Sage had prior to their meeting. Are you saying the Juubi taught him to collect Natural Chakra? Or was it the Sage Animals?

Well, I believe that Fuuinjutsu preceded Ninjutsu, the same way Senjutsu preceded Ninjutsu, the Uzumakis were probably practitioners of Ancient Fuuinjutsu even before Rikudou encountered the Juubi.

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The Shinigami of the Shiki Fuujin for example is from the spirit world aka Reikai, the Juubi is a Kunitsukami, or a deity native to the material world aka Ningenka, the Uzumakis probably worshipped or the very least had contact with these spiritual Kamis like the Death God (Shinigami) and through these spirits they learned the art of Fuuinjutsu.

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

Well, I believe that Fuuinjutsu preceded Ninjutsu, the same way Senjutsu preceded Ninjutsu, the Uzumakis were probably practitioners of Ancient Fuuinjutsu even before Rikudou encountered the Juubi.

You must be registered for see images

The Shinigami of the Shiki Fuujin for example is from the spirit world aka Reikai, the Juubi is a Kunitsukami, or a deity native to the material world aka Ningenka, the Uzumakis probably worshipped or the very least had contact with these spiritual Kamis like the Death God (Shinigami) and through these spirits they learned the art of Fuuinjutsu.

I understand, but the one problem I have with both of our theories is the origin of the Onmyoudon. It would seem that it comes from the Juubi (as we saw with Obito). However, folklore tells us that Onmyoudo is practiced by the Onmyouji and that these Onmyouji used Shinigami something we know to be almost exclusive to the Uzumaki (as the pioneers). So this would tell us that the Uzumaki are Onmyouji and practice the Onmyoudon. But, the Onmyoudon comes from the Juubi. So it is a circle seemingly without a beginning. If the Uzumaki are Onmyouji pre-dating the Sage's encounter with the Juubi, then how is it that the Onmyoudo originates from the Juubi?

It was a really glaring contradiction staring me in the face as I was writing the thread..

 

[Gerkak]

very nice analysis you guys really know your stuff

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

I understand, but the one problem I have with both of our theories is the origin of the Onmyoudon. It would seem that it comes from the Juubi (as we saw with Obito). However, folklore tells us that Onmyoudo is practiced by the Onmyouji and that these Onmyouji used Shinigami something we know to be almost exclusive to the Uzumaki (as the pioneers). So this would tell us that the Uzumaki are Onmyouji and practice the Onmyoudon. But, the Onmyoudon comes from the Juubi. So it is a circle seemingly without a beginning. If the Uzumaki are Onmyouji pre-dating the Sage's encounter with the Juubi, then how is it that the Onmyoudo originates from the Juubi?

It was a really glaring contradiction staring me in the face as I was writing the thread..

You see, Kishimoto does not follow the Japanese folklore to the letter (artistic liberty), he incorporates other Japanese myths and concepts to suit Naruto's story, we can say that Fuuinjutsu and the Shinigamis were influenced by real-life Onmyodo, but the attribution of its source is not from the Juubi in-universe, but from Spiritual Kamis the Uzumakis had contact with (eg. Shinigami), the Yin-Yang Manipulation/Release was inspired from Onmyodo as well, but the attribution of this particular element of Onmyodo is attributed to the divine entity in-Universe which is the Juubi. So ultimately these things were inspired from real life Onmyodo, but the attribution of its' powers are divided between the Uzumaki Clan,Rikudou and the Juubi as its sources in-universe.

 

[Naijakid]

Wow nice theory...

 

[Ovan]

Thank you very much for the thread. ^^

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

You see, Kishimoto does not follow the Japanese folklore to the letter, he incorporates other Japanese myths and concepts to suit Naruto's story, we can say that Fuuinjutsu and the Shinigamis were influenced by real-life Onmyodo, but the attribution of its source is not from the Juubi in-universe, but from Spiritual Kamis the Uzumakis had contact with (eg. Shinigami), the Yin-Yang Manipulation/Release was inspired from Onmyodo as well, but the attribution of this particular element of Onmyodo is attributed to the divine entity in-Universe which is the Juubi. So ultimately these things were inspired from real life Onmyodo, but the attribution of its' powers are divided between the Uzumaki Clan,Rikudou and the Juubi as its sources in-universe.

Okay, I see what you're saying with the Onmyoudo being split between the Uzumaki and their relationship with the Shinigami's and the Juubi with its mastery over the elements and yin-yang balance. I get that, its two halves of a whole concept. That explains the inspiration behind the abilities. But, Kishi has actually used the word "Onmyoudon" now. It has become a physical, specific thing in Naruto. So now it has to be explained (origins, uses, etc.) And while the inspiration of the word and its practices help, it almost can't be both of the things you are saying...in Naruto's universe.

That would be like saying... "Oh the Juubi's power over the elements and ying-yang balance. The ability to nullify or create ninjutsu...that's called Onmyoudon."

Then saying..."Oh the Uzumaki's Fuinjutsu abilities. They're relationship and use of the Shinigami...that's called Onmyoudon."

The point I'm trying to make is that now that "Onmyoudon" has been used as the name of something...it has to have a specific purpose... Not two separate purposes.

That would be like having Izanami and then later calling a similar genjutsu or something Izanami.

You see what I mean?

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Ultimately, judging from the history and practices of the real life Onmyodō, we can see that Rikūdo Sennin, the Uzumaki Clan and the Jūbi have greater connections with each other compared to other clans and characters in the story. That is the literary and artistic expression the author is trying to convey.

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

Ultimately, judging from the history and practices of the real life Onmyodō, we can see that Rikūdo Sennin, the Uzumaki Clan and the Jūbi have greater connections with each other compared to other clans and characters in the story.

I guess the point under the point I was trying to make is...Is it possible that the Uzumaki themselves, not just the Sage, learned Onmyoudon from the Juubi much earlier than the Sage's encounter with it?

Otherwise...its almost too random that they know basically the other "half" of something the Juubi knows.

 

[Gyakusetsu]

I understand, but the one problem I have with both of our theories is the origin of the Onmyoudon. It would seem that it comes from the Juubi (as we saw with Obito). However, folklore tells us that Onmyoudo is practiced by the Onmyouji and that these Onmyouji used Shinigami something we know to be almost exclusive to the Uzumaki (as the pioneers). So this would tell us that the Uzumaki are Onmyouji and practice the Onmyoudon. But, the Onmyoudon comes from the Juubi. So it is a circle seemingly without a beginning. If the Uzumaki are Onmyouji pre-dating the Sage's encounter with the Juubi, then how is it that the Onmyoudo originates from the Juubi?

It was a really glaring contradiction staring me in the face as I was writing the thread..

A circle you say? Do tell.