NB Team Debate League round 3: (¬‿¬) vs Senko

[Zexion~]

Alright Re-reading now ....however Don't expect a long ass description as i'm most likely going to get flamed for it anyways

 

[EliteKakashi]

Alright Re-reading now ....however Don't expect a long ass description as i'm most likely going to get flamed for it anyways

Yeah.

I already hate and disagree with your decision.

Spoiler

<3

 

[Fresco]

Thanks Zexion for not *****ing out.

 

[Zexion~]

*sigh* Ok here goes nothing

Im going to break it up into three parts Opening,Middle,Closers ..


Openings

Spoiler

Let me start by saying that both were pretty good openers, although elite neglected to add an overview of aara's abilities which i usually like too see in an opener but its no biggie. Elite you said that Gaara would eventually be able to figure out the Works of Kakuzu's defense but in fact it would be hard as Kakuzu does not leave it up for a long period of time, Perhaps the manga's most analytic fighter was not even able to point it out, in fact it does not even tell you in the manga the Data Book is the only reason we even know of that flaw also your assumption and reasoning on Raiton Gian being ineffective was false as was proven later on in the debate,your overall post was good, you provided a base for the strategy your team had opted to use and you even took the liberty of countering some of Kakuzu's basic moves while you were at it .. again pretty good opener altogether,

Varrah, Was part of your opening unnecessary? no not at all actually .. i like finding overviews such as yours in openers although they do not influence my decision much they are welcomed and are certainly not against any rules, on to your post your complain on Elite countering moves you have not done yet was a little.. Un-needed as he was simply stating a basis of his strategy and countering some Of Kakuzu's obvious moves, he did not go into countering movement and such things, Ok on to the main part of your post , i loved the depth you went to in your strategy if your post went un countered it may of even have been the finishing strategy , the mistakes you made were few however it was a pretty situational strategy, all in all your post was also pretty good, not great due to the fact that you sort of ignored Elites way of saying how the fight would begin also your argument based on Kakuzu figuring Gaara had a wind affinity was off, as your country does not designate your affinity As demonstrated with Naruto having the wind affinity yet being from the land of fire etc. however you were correct in saying he could deduce that Gaara does indeed have sand inside the guord

Middle

Spoiler

,
Fresco: although you were correct that he ignored your argument, your idea of picking his argument apart was not fulfilled fully as you made a few mistakes for one thing Kakuzu is still able to move when domu is only partly active so if he were to use Domu on his feet, only he could break through the sand similar to how CM2 kimi broke through sand coffin, However i do not think Your opponents countered it through this method ..simply an observation i made, however as Mil. later pointed out your strategy on Gaara simply crushing Kakuzu when he un-domu's is incorrect as not all his sand is sensor sand so he would have no idea when Kakuzu lets down domu, leaving him vulnerable from a breakthrough of the sand similar to how i stated above, also Kimimaro was able to deduce that he carries sand in that guard that he uses, Kakuzu should be able to easily albeit not for the whole "wind affinity" argument but nonetheless i see it very possible also as you can see

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Kakuzu's katon also extends into the air quickly so flight may not be a suitable counter for it, also i'm sorry to say but you were wrong in assuming that gian lacks the piercing properties to breach the sand, as the data book stated it too have incredible piercing properties which again Mil. Pointed out, your last mistake was saying that Creating all that sand takes no chakra

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as gaara states here he uses chakra to create the sand, Besides these points (and the one about gian being slow due to Kakashi being able to intercept it) your post was Good

Waltz-Didn't quite get why you said Creating all that sand was futile because they object was too kill,but anyways your post was quite good, your point on gian injuring Kakashi was good However i was a bit skeptical on Kakuzu's whole body moving that fast under ground, especially for it being fast enough to use an ambush? You succesfully provided a counter for Elites Raikage's lightning chop argument and Fresco's Argument that Gian was slow, all in all you had a great post, and the better middle post

Ok for the closers im not going into depth really ..As im tired U_U

Closers

Spoiler

Onpoint-Don't personally like how kept the "no trees are left standing after the sand attack" when Waltz posted a scan with tree's still standing that took place AFTER yours Anyways your posted strategy was pretty much repetition you stuck with the same thing as your teammates did without changing it very much yes you succesfully showcased Gaara's sand's speed however all that was his gourd sand which was notably faster then the sand he uses from terrain,Your post was good but not the caliber as i expected, Although you countered some of Waltz's points pretty well

Milwaukee- Your post was great once again, i was awaiting for certain things in this debate to be said and you said them, You posted the DB quote on Kishi stating that Gian does indeed pierce extremely well which i was waiting for you also cleared up the fact that they were using any Sand as Sand sensor's when that is simply not and the sand must be specialized sand however although your use of EGF while Kakuzu is still in Domu was great i was a little confused on how it would go about moving Kakuzu, Were you saying it would drag him along? Or simply divert Gaara's attention so that Kakuzu could un-do Domu, Although the fact that you proved that Gaara's sand can not sense made up for the discrepancy, liked how you utilized the flight of the Hearts which was for the most part being left un mentioned, However ther was one MAJOR flaw and that is ..Kakuzu can not use Suiton your whole argument was dependent that Kishi said the EGF technique allows the use of all 5 elements and indeed it does, however Kakuzu only can fit in 4 extra hearts at a time, and the affinities are based off of those hearts he took, So he can only use 4 affinities at a time and those would be earth,lightning,wind and fire, Water release can not be counted towards Kakuzu, so i can not take that part of your post into consideration, However the rest of your post was truly brilliant my man ..once again you may of had the best post

Spoiler

Due to a combined reasoning of all the posts my vote goes to Team Senko I think they had much more diversity with their arguments and gave a better understanding on how their Shinobi would win this match although you both for the most part were deadlocked when it came to countering each other's arguments Mil. Broke open their lead .. It was a good debate by all however Please do not flame this i'd gladly answer any VM's regarding my judgement however

 

[Fresco]

Your judging was fine, Zexion. The only gripe I have is that I felt you misinterpreted a couple of my points (then again maybe that's my fault.) Its no biggie though. At least you ****ing judged it :| And I can speak on behalf of my squad that we're not going to flame you. At most we'll just go to our group and ***** about it.

Spoiler

Don't kill me guys

 

[EliteKakashi]

(¬‿¬)

One judgement down, only need one more.

 

[MilwaukeegHost]

(¬‿¬)

One judgement down, only need one more.

What other match only had 2 votes?!? My understanding is that every match has 3 judges always, with only one judge from one team not needed. The only other matches that tied had 4 judges not 2... maybe I need to go read the rules...

 

[EliteKakashi]

Zexion i see where you are coming from here. I always "assumed" his own heart (5th heart) had the ability to use earth release, because it was the only nature type he ever performed with his own body even while all his other hearts were still inside him... making the "4" other hearts Wind-Fire-Lightning-Water. But ass-uming ... well you know... lol








What other match only had 2 votes?!? My understanding is that every match has 3 judges always, with only one judge from one team not needed. The only other matches that tied had 4 judges not 2... maybe I need to go read the rules...

Only two judges unless there's someone who disagrees with a judgement. It's why ties are possible.

 

[MilwaukeegHost]

Only two judges unless there's someone who disagrees with a judgement. It's why ties are possible.

I think you may be right

 

[kakashi owns all]

I think you may be right

ya he is, someone should be able to judge other then me.

 

[Zexion~]

Your judging was fine, Zexion. The only gripe I have is that I felt you misinterpreted a couple of my points (then again maybe that's my fault.) Its no biggie though. At least you ****ing judged it :| And I can speak on behalf of my squad that we're not going to flame you. At most we'll just go to our group and ***** about it.

Spoiler

Don't kill me guys

Thank's bro, my bad if i did, :/ ...

I hate the 2 judges rule i thought three would of been the best way to do it ...Draws suck

 

[Frikid]

a gaara vs kakuzu debate and the team with kakuzu winning, wow , i have seen it all.

 

[Anub]

It's not about which character wins, it's about which team defends their character best.

 

[Zexion~]

So who else is judging

 

[MilwaukeegHost]

a gaara vs kakuzu debate and the team with kakuzu winning, wow , i have seen it all.

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"Any jutsu has a weakness"

-Itachi Uchiha

 

[Frikid]

It's not about which character wins, it's about which team defends their character best.

not saying its impossible just that its rare to see someone with a weaker team winning especially when power levels differ so much.
Gaara is a versatile fighter and have more screen time than kakuzu. Kakuzu got fooled by a mere naruto shadow clone,and ended up losing his life. the people with kakuzu's team must be very good to be able to win in this match up.

maybe i will read the debate later.

 

[Anub]

not saying its impossible just that its rare to see someone with a weaker team winning especially when power levels differ so much.
Gaara is a versatile fighter and have more screen time than kakuzu. Kakuzu got fooled by a mere naruto shadow clone,and ended up losing his life. the people with kakuzu's team must be very good to be able to win in this match up.

maybe i will read the debate later.

These are two of the strongest teams in the tourney (according to the standings) and the debaters that posted are arguably in the top 50 on this site...anything can happen.

 

[MilwaukeegHost]

not saying its impossible just that its rare to see someone with a weaker team winning especially when power levels differ so much.
Gaara is a versatile fighter and have more screen time than kakuzu. Kakuzu got fooled by a mere naruto shadow clone,and ended up losing his life. the people with kakuzu's team must be very good to be able to win in this match up.

maybe i will read the debate later.

That's the beauty of debates--we get to actually be the mind of the shinobi... Which means even if these two shinobi fought in the manga, in a debate a different person could potentially win even if they lost in their fight in the manga.


Anyhoo... It was a great debate. You should read it when you get the chance. Peace

 

[EliteKakashi]

If someone else doesn't judge this soon, I'll cut a *****. (¬‿¬)

 

[Zexion~]

The only other people that CAN judge it are TTS and KOA, oh and Whoever the leader of turnt up is i forgot who it was :/