Team (¬‿¬) (EliteKakashi), I like your method of turning this desert-like landscape even more in your favor by adding sand and tearing down the trees. I also really liked to see an image from the databook, but I don't think it served you as well as you wanted it to. It states that the hardened body part cannot be moved, yet it also reminds us of when Kakuzu used it to tear down that giant metal door; clearly he moved his arm to do that. It simply creates possible confusion at a minimum. Personally, when I read that line, I thought it implied he couldn't extend those body parts that he had hardened; not that he can move them, but that he can't extend those limbs with his tendril technique at the same time. Either way, if you plan to bind him up and attempt to crush him with sand, he wouldn't be able to move anyway, let alone if his hardened body restrict his physical as well.
I honestly feel that you could have explained some of your points better regarding how Gaara can counter Kakuzu's threads. How could Gaara sense if Kakuzu was going to attack him from underground by using threads? Is it because the threads would have to pass through his sand in the process? Are you assuming that is enough for Gaara to sense him? How can Gaara stop Kakuzu from getting into the air with the threads? By binding his feet to the ground with the sand? The reason I bring this one up is because if you plan to counter him jumping by binding his feet, then are you assuming he has the reaction time to do that? If he is already in the process of jumping, do you really think Gaara is fast enough to grab hold and stop him that quickly? Essentially, I feel that these were left too unexplained, where you could have put more time into defending these ideas. Assuming the reader knows what you mean without explaining every detail is risky.
I loved your counters regarding Kakuzu's masks. The manga page showing Gaara defending Sasuke from Raikage was a great addition to provide proof against Kakuzu's lightning mask.
Team Senko (Varrah), first of all, when a match is labeled as 'manga' intelligence, I assume it means the combatants know everything a manga reader knows, not that they only knew what they knew in the manga. So for me, this match implies full knowledge of your opponent's abilities, though I may have come in with the wrong impression.
I think you did well explaining how Kakuzu could kill Gaara if he evaded an attack from his fire heart, but we know it wouldn't go down like that. The only way Gaara would evade an attack like that is if he was in the air and wanted to conserve chakra, otherwise he's just block it. Also, you clearly implied that Gaara's use of sand combines Wind and Earth, possibly even implying its a KKG. Assuming your lightning attacks will be extra effective against Gaara's sand is a bit of an assumption of you ask me. We did see that Sasuke actually pierced Gaara's sand with chidori, as Fresco brings up later, but we also see a part 2 Gaara countering a full strength Raikage as EliteKakashi posted above, and that does not benefit you. Basically what I'm saying is that you are basically making assumptions more than anything and I feel that you forced yourself to use a very round-a-bout method that you did not need to, assuming my understanding of the rules are correct. Lastly, did you mean 5m and 3m at the end of your post rather than 5cm and 3cm respectively? -_-
Team (¬‿¬) (Fresco), I loved your idea about distracting Kakuzu from the air, it makes me believe catching him off guard like that is possible. You also defend the idea that Kakuzu can't move while using his skin hardening, but please tell me how he destroys a giant door with the tech if he cannot move his arm while using it? I still believe that he simply can't use his tendril tech while using it, not that he can't move at all while using it. I was very surprised that you would bring up the fact that Sasuke pierced Gaara's defense with Chidori, actually helping your opponent. Not only did you bring it up, but you did not even defend the idea that Gaara's defense was weak at that point in time. You could have said he was not concentrating on the defense and could even compare it to Jirobo's technique, where certain points might be weaker than others. Basically I think you helped out your opponent there and could have defended yourself against it better. I do, however, really like your unrelenting defense of how Kakuzu's lightning tech is far inferior to both Chidori and Raikiri. Lastly, I think it was a mistake to conclude that Gaara would not need to take flight in this battle, its better to be safe than sorry and you did not need to state this with such confidence.
Team Senko (Waltz), I think you had a good idea to use Kakuzu's bodily composition to get out from underground if caught by Gaara's sand wave, but I think you underestimate its power. I think its a stretch to say that Kakuzu could get out using that method. I think you did good to try to defend Kakuzu's lightning tech with the trouble Kakashi had neutralizing it, but defending the strength of a tech by the difficulty needed to negate it does not seem like a reliable proof to me. I don't think we have ever seen an element neutralized like that before, so I think its hard to base any argument on. I do think your points about the sand possibly being weak to lightning are effective, but I don't feel you convinced me as well as Fresco did.
I thought it was a great idea to bring up Kakashi's sharingan, providing evidence that Gaara might not be able to avoid the wind tech like Kakashi did. I think you did a great job attempting to explain how Raikage's drop kick has no relevance to the lighting> sand debate, I myself was questioning it somewhat and I think you did good defending your position. However I also think you can't discount the fact that it negated Raikage's massive physical prowess. I feel that you did good to note that your opponents did not formulate a reliable method to kill Kakuzu, although Fresco did mention suffocation as one possibility. I did like your combination method to take down Gaara by occupying him with combination elemental attacks and attacking him from below. I liked that you concluded a way for him to kill Gaara that did not rely on the lightning tech to do so, but by killing him getting in CQC.
Team (¬‿¬) (OnPoint), I agree with you regarding Kakuzu's lightning tech, I think its simply not as effective as Chidori or Raikiri. I think you did good to point out that a lack of sharigan would perhaps not make a big difference in this fight, considering Gaara's usual way of defending himself. I think you did good to point out some weakness in your opponent, pointing out inconsistencies can help one's cause a lot. However, in general, I'd say focus less on picking apart opponent's statements and more so come up with new strategies and tactics that your team had not yet established. I feel that your post could have had more new ideas to add to the fray.
Team Senko (MilwaukeegHost), I think you did well to defend the idea that Kakuzu could still perform actions when using his skin harden tech, but in reality, how effective would his attacks be if he were limited to threads released from his mouth or only certain parts of his appendages? Moreover, he would be leaving these areas quite vulnerable to attack or possible severing. I think you did great to point out that Gaara did not realize the fact that Diedara added clay to his sand, very clever of you. There is evidence that he can detect at least some forms of action that occur when coming in contact with his sand however, so this point does not destroy the debate entirely. I do think you did a great job describing a way for Kakuzu to refrain from being captured by the sand by using his threads to grip tops of trees which may still be poking out of the top of the sand. To be honest, I did not see a good explanation or defense of the masks actually flying. It seemed to me that they were simply able to jump really high, as all shinobi can do, but not actually fly. This takes away from some of your arguments somewhat.
Saying that Kakuzu's collected hearts were those of his ex-teammates is bold, really an assumption more than anything. In the end, we have to base the 'strength of the hearts' on their feats rather than speculation. I think your secret weapon was extremely original, however I think it is also highly speculative and relies on a lot of factors. Even if this oil is surfaced with the sand, which is no guarantee, it would still need to be in very high quantities to make any significant difference. Considering the amount of sand he would be surfacing, I find it hard to believe that there would be enough crude oil surfaced to take care of the job. Not only that, but this method revolves around using a method that has no backing in the manga. You can assume that he did have a water heart and that its attack was around B rank, but this would all be speculation. I can understand implementing this strategy, but its something we cannot fully predict, given only a small excerpt from Kishi basically stating its possible. Not to mention the Water Heart was never shown in the war arc, the perfect place to display the ability, where other dead shinobi like Asuma were given new abilities.
Overall, I don't completely trust the databook's statement that Kakuzu is unable to move parts of his body that he has hardened. They can be used for physical attacks that require motion, that in itself can be proof against it or at least enough to question it. I was also confused by the rules of the match. I always assumed that magna knowledge meant the combatants know everything the reader knows, not that they only knew what their characters knew in the manga, so this made assessing some people's posting methods difficult. I feel that team (¬‿¬) had a stronger opening 2 posts, giving them the clear edge early on, but had a relatively weak closing. I think this was mostly due to the eventual reiteration of previous posts and a lack of new ideas coming from the team. Now I can't completely condone reiterating the same exact idea, but I also don't feel I can think more greatly of your team's cause if you simply state the same things either. In general, I would recommend concentrating on your own ideas more and focus less on ones already established in the judges' minds. I feel that Senko had a relatively weak opening 2 posts and a stronger ending but also had some inconsistency in posts 1 and 2. I was also surprised that no member of Senko outright claimed Kakuzu would not get caught in the first place, a huge portion of this debate. I hate to be so nit picky, but I feel that this match was a real headache for me to make a final decision on.
To conclude, I feel that (¬‿¬) won the argument regarding the lightning > sand debate (mostly due to Fresco). I feel that they also came out ahead in regard to the sand burial > kakuzu's hardening tech (mostly due proofs that Gaara could outlast Kakuzu and a lack of methods to counter the situation). MilwaukeegHost and MilwaukeegHost alone proposed methods of 1) Avoiding being captured by the sand in the first place and 2) convincingly proposing ideas for attacking while still using his hardening tech, though they did seem kind of weak, things I felt needed better defending. I feel that (¬‿¬) defended Gaara very well and cocentrated on Kakuzu's weaknesses, sometimes going relatively un-argued. In the end, I feel that the actual kill methods of Waltz and MilwaukeegHost are what gave Senko the best shot at winning, however I feel that Waltz's did not make up for (¬‿¬)'s early dominance (in my mind) and MilwaukeegHost's did not convince me well enough considering the high amount of speculation required, not to mention using a method not seen in the manga. The actual kill methods of (¬‿¬) were weak but I think they convinced me better overall with the given methods. My vote goes to (¬‿¬), which my gut was leaning toward 80% of the way but a decision that was made harder after re-considering everything that was covered.
