[FEAR] Byakugan vs Sharingan (UPDATED)

[Uchiha Style]

Oh I see, so were not talking about breaking out of Tsukuyomi? Where talking about breaking out of Itachi's Tsukuyomi.

Fine, Ill agree that no one even a Hyuga can escape Itachi's Tsukuyomi... it is a good thing he is dead. Apart from that the Hyuga can break any and all genjutsu... Do we agree?

Btw in the last scan Sasuke had no reason to use Tsukuyomi because he was merely using it on Itachi to break out of Kabuto's genjutsu. The reason Itachi used it was because he is an Edo which means infinite chakra etc... there was no reason for him to hold back, Sasuke on the other hand needs to reserve his chakra.

Fair enough.....

 

[ShadowBandit]

Thats where youre wrong, because only a hyuga can properly use a byakugan.

Uhhh.....Ao seems pretty adapt at using the Byakugan, so I'm going to say your wrong.

There is no evidence to conclude that the Hyuga clan's techniques, such as the gentle fist and rotation, are clan specfic techniques or techniques that originate from the Byakugan specifically. The Byakugan just make the clan's particular fighting style useable. Such as in the case with Kakashi and his chidori, it wasn't useable intill he got the shargian, to rid of the tunnel vision blockage. Anybody can learn gentle fist, but its super hard to use it without the Byakugan, because you can't see chakra points.

I gave some very good arguments on why I believed the Byakugan was better, and you simply dismissed them all, you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink. Orochimaru isnt going after the Byakugan for the same reason he didnt go after the Sharingan, think about it, he tried to steal Itachi's when Itachi joined the Akatsuki. Itachi Joined the Akatsuki after he destroyed the Uchiha. Thus Orochimaru wanted the Sharingan before the Uchiha Clan was destroyed. And so why didnt he just run in and grab a pair from just anyone he saw? Because he doesnt just want the eyes, he wants the strongest eyes. He doesnt yet know who has the strongest Byakugan and even at that getting his hands on one would be borderline impossible. Especially seeing how the branch familes byakugan's are sealed upon their death. As for the Uchiha there are only 2 left so he doesnt really have much of a choice, and Sasuke is an easy target.

How can a Clan that has litterally had no development since before start of the manga be overhyped?

1. Orochimaru does want a pair of sharigan eyes, the only reason he hasn't stolen them from anybody was because A. he became obsessed to get one after the clan was destroyed, and B. he reliazed the eyes were a drain on the body that wasn't an uchicha, thats why he's desperate to claim Sasuke's body.

2. I read thru your reasons. None, i can fully agree with.

Some points: The byakugan doesn't beat the sharigan because the Hyuga clan has better Taijustu. That just means the clan has better Taijustu, not a better Dojustu, which is the label of your thread.

B. Theirs no evidence that byakugan is immune to genjustu

C. Byakugan has only been ever stated to be able to see chakra networks and chakra points, and has never been stated that the Byakugan is able to comprehend ninjustu, taijustu, or genjustu, in anyway as the likeliness of the shargian.

I'd make some more points, but I'm really not in the mood.

 

[Ahmed1993]

I make a thread saying how I believe the Byakugan is better than the Sharingan and I am a fanboy. Ignore the fact that I have had and still do have an Orochimaru Avatar, Signature and qoute in my profile. Simply the fact that I said the Byakugan is better makes me an ignorant, stupid fanboy... the world you live in is an amazing one my friend, alas I live in a world called reality where things dont work like that.

Ok then i'm gonna state this :


Tsukuyomi : No matter how powerful the Hyuga they can't counter this , only a Perfect Jin or Uchiha with MS can break it.

PS : Sasuke don't count cause he had CS2 activated and Itachi didn't cast a powerful one on him ( because we didn't see the black and red background in the genjutsu ).

Amaterasu Its instant unlike Enton which have travel time , and to dodge Amaterasu you need to be so fast to the point that the Sharingan can't keep up with you ( like Aa ).

Kamui Like Amaterasu its instant.

Susanoo Ok first of , Susanoo is not linked to the user like Kidomaru's spider thread.

Second of , Suanoo is a lot more dense than the thread of Kidomaru.

Third of , An Uchiha can see the chakra with the Sharingan , so he won't let a Huyga do it.

And finally , in order for a Hyuga to do it , he has to get close to Susanoo and touch it , and if he do , Susanoo will smash him before he got the time to do his technique.

Enton Much worse than Amaterasu if the user is a spammer like Sasuke.

Sasuke with 3 Tomoes Sharingan outclassed easily Naruto with Kyuubi , the same one that Nejii had a hard time keeping up with and got defeated by.

So there it safe to assume that a Sharingan can see faster enemies that the Byakugan barely can.

Heck , Sasuke even saw clearly Bee 6 tail mode.


I forgot a thing : EMS doesn't cost Sasuke a lot of chakra at all , look at what he has done since he appeared first time with his EMS , and you'll understand.

 

[FearxDeath]

Uhhh.....Ao seems pretty adapt at using the Byakugan, so I'm going to say your wrong.

There is no evidence to conclude that the Hyuga clan's techniques, such as the gentle fist and rotation, are clan specfic techniques or techniques that originate from the Byakugan specifically. The Byakugan just make the clan's particular fighting style useable. Such as in the case with Kakashi and his chidori, it wasn't useable intill he got the shargian, to rid of the tunnel vision blockage. Anybody can learn gentle fist, but its super hard to use it without the Byakugan, because you can't see chakra points.

----------------------------------------------------

1. Orochimaru does want a pair of sharigan eyes, the only reason he hasn't stolen them from anybody was because A. he became obsessed to get one after the clan was destroyed, and B. he reliazed the eyes were a drain on the body that wasn't an uchicha, thats why he's desperate to claim Sasuke's body.

2. I read thru your reasons. None, i can fully agree with.

Some points: The byakugan doesn't beat the sharigan because the Hyuga clan has better Taijustu. That just means the clan has better Taijustu, not a better Dojustu, which is the label of your thread.

B. Theirs no evidence that byakugan is immune to genjustu

C. Byakugan has only been ever stated to be able to see chakra networks and chakra points, and has never been stated that the Byakugan is able to comprehend ninjustu, taijustu, or genjustu, in anyway as the likeliness of the shargian.

I'd make some more points, but I'm really not in the mood.

If you read my thread you will see that the gentle fist style along with the trigram rotation are available because of the Hyuga's 2nd KKG which allows them to release chakra from any of their chakra points.

1) You havent said anything I didnt already say, why did you say this?

2) If you had read my thread I drew the conclusion that, which I put in bold but that didnt stop you from ignoring it, that the weakness of the Sharingan is strong and fast taijutsu. And since the Byakugan user specializes in Taijutsu they have the advantage. Also you mention the title of my thread, which is cool, but if you bothered to read the bolded and underlined introduction to my thread I clearly state that this is regarding a Byakugan user vs a Sharingan user and openly state that I am not comparing Doujutsu. Yet again it did not stop you from ignoring it, perhaps next time Ill change the font size to 7.

3) I gave strong evidence which was logically deduced from what we have seen in the scans, saying that it isnt there isnt a good argument against my thread. However it is a good argument that you are blind.

4) I have no clue what you mean by this, but again, everything I say in this thread is logically deduced from scans from the manga. If you have a specific problem where I am wrong please point it out, but stating vague and arbitrary facts does very little to discredit anything.

5) You call those points? Interesting world you live in.

Ok then i'm gonna state this :


Tsukuyomi : No matter how powerful the Hyuga they can't counter this , only a Perfect Jin or Uchiha with MS can break it.

PS : Sasuke don't count cause he had CS2 activated and Itachi didn't cast a powerful one on him ( because we didn't see the black and red background in the genjutsu ).

Amaterasu Its instant unlike Enton which have travel time , and to dodge Amaterasu you need to be so fast to the point that the Sharingan can't keep up with you ( like Aa ).

Kamui Like Amaterasu its instant.

Susanoo Ok first of , Susanoo is not linked to the user like Kidomaru's spider thread.

Second of , Suanoo is a lot more dense than the thread of Kidomaru.

Third of , An Uchiha can see the chakra with the Sharingan , so he won't let a Huyga do it.

And finally , in order for a Hyuga to do it , he has to get close to Susanoo and touch it , and if he do , Susanoo will smash him before he got the time to do his technique.

Enton Much worse than Amaterasu if the user is a spammer like Sasuke.

Sasuke with 3 Tomoes Sharingan outclassed easily Naruto with Kyuubi , the same one that Nejii had a hard time keeping up with and got defeated by.

So there it safe to assume that a Sharingan can see faster enemies that the Byakugan barely can.

Heck , Sasuke even saw clearly Bee 6 tail mode.


I forgot a thing : EMS doesn't cost Sasuke a lot of chakra at all , look at what he has done since he appeared first time with his EMS , and you'll understand.

1) I like how you added Perfect Jinchuriki, because of the Killer Bee example, there is no evidence or reason to believe that it is limited to only the perfect jinc. Idk what you mean when you say Sasuke doesnt count.

2) Amaterasu is Enton... jesus christ how do you even qualify to be a fan boy? A was able to dodge Amaterasu at as it was coming at him, the Hyuga on the other hand will see this as the Uchiha is molding his chakra and controlling it.

3) Again you are wrong on this, even during Kakashi's fight with Deidara, Deidara was able to dodge his Kamui before it hit him. And didnt Kakashi's Kamui get dodged again when he tried to use it on the Gedo?

4) Link Via Chakra, we could argue this point all day but I have nothing conclusive here so ill give it to you, densness of the chakra material was never stated to be an issue, you assuming it was is perculiar, its as if your grasping at straws. And Susan'o smashed them before they can touch him? Ok, they touch him before Susan;o smashes them... you see where im going with this? I could argue this point too but again ive got nothing conclusive so ill let you win the whole Susan'o topic. When it comes to MS abilities keep in mind that I even say that its going to be tough to dodge/beat, I merely give a few suggestions to let people know that it is not entirely impossible.

5) Fair enough, but personally I feel that fight was filled with plot no jutsu. But remember the argument wasnt whether the Sharingan could see faster people than the Byakugan, but that seeing is irrelevant if the Sharingan user isnt fast enough to keep up. I gave plenty of examples of Sasuke getting owned as proof of this.

6) I disagree, he may not stumble over in pain after using it once or twice, but it does cost a considerable amount of chakra. I would say 10% easily as opposed to the 25% it used to cost... is that fair enough?

Lastly you raise some good points friend, ill have to keep an eye out for you. Not alot of people can hold a debate without looking like a complete idiot.

 

[Ahmed1993]

1) I like how you added Perfect Jinchuriki, because of the Killer Bee example, there is no evidence or reason to believe that it is limited to only the perfect jinc. Idk what you mean when you say Sasuke doesnt count.

Sasuke doesn't count , because Itachi didn't use a powerful Tsukuyomi on him , and he break it with a Sharingan empowered with an outside power which is the CS2.

Ok then give me what proves that the Byakugan user can break powerful genjutsu.

The Sharingan can break genjutsu and yet it fails against Tsukuyomi.

Amaterasu is Enton... jesus christ how do you even qualify to be a fan boy? A was able to dodge Amaterasu at as it was coming at him, the Hyuga on the other hand will see this as the Uchiha is molding his chakra and controlling it.

I know that Amaterasu and Enton are both black flames , but Amaterasu come instantly at whatever the user is looking , but the Enton have travel time as seen with :
Sasuke vs Zetsu.
Sasuke vs Gaara.
Sasuke vs Obito and co ( with the enton arrow ).

Amaterasu is different :
When Itachi used it on Nagato's summons , it appeared instantly.
When Sasuke used it on Danzo and A , it appeared instantly

And what i mean by Instant is , if the user is focusing on point A , it appears directly at that point without travel time unlike Enton.

I'm stating the obvious here , no fanboying whatsoever , and if you don't believe me , go check the manga.

3) Again you are wrong on this, even during Kakashi's fight with Deidara, Deidara was able to dodge his Kamui before it hit him. And didnt Kakashi's Kamui get dodged again when he tried to use it on the Gedo?

Against Deidara he was a noob at it , he even said it himself that couldn't control it properly.
And the Gedo Mazo didn't dodge it , its Obito who cancelled it , rewatch the manga if you don't believe me.

4) Link Via Chakra, we could argue this point all day but I have nothing conclusive here so ill give it to you, densness of the chakra material was never stated to be an issue, why you are assuming it is perculiar, its as if your grasping at straws. And Susan'o smashed them before they can touch him? Ok, they touch him before Susan;o smashes them... you see where im going with this? I could argue this point too but again ive got nothing conclusive so ill let you win the whole Susan'o topic. When it comes to MS abilities keep in mind that I even say that its going to be tough to dodge/beat, I merely give a few suggestions to let people know that it is not entirely impossible.

How did Neji got Kidomaru ? by channeling chakra through his thread.

Does Susanoo have threads ? no , so the Hyuga have to come close to Susanoo and touch it , and the Susanoo won't stand there watching him , he'll smash him right away.
And even if by some miracle he does manage to touch Susanoo ,it will do absolutely nothing to the user cause he isn't linked to Susanoo like Kidomaru and his threads.

And don't forget that the Susanoo can be reformed.

5) Fair enough, but personally I feel that fight was filled with plot no jutsu. But remember the argument wasnt whether the Sharingan could see faster people than the Byakugan, but that seeing is irrelevant if the Sharingan user isnt fast enough to keep up. I gave plenty of examples of Sasuke getting owned as proof of this.

Yes but the Hyuga has to be as fast as the Raikage to become a threat to Sasuke.

I have to go to bed now, good night.

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

Can't Neji just Counter Sussanoo with Air Plam just like what happened when Hiashi destroy juubi with air palm?

 

[FearxDeath]

Sasuke doesn't count , because Itachi didn't use a powerful Tsukuyomi on him , and he break it with a Sharingan empowered with an outside power which is the CS2.

Ok then give me what proves that the Byakugan user can break powerful genjutsu.

The Sharingan can break genjutsu and yet it fails against Tsukuyomi.



I know that Amaterasu and Enton are both black flames , but Amaterasu come instantly at whatever the user is looking , but the Enton have travel time as seen with :
Sasuke vs Zetsu.
Sasuke vs Gaara.
Sasuke vs Obito and co ( with the enton arrow ).

Amaterasu is different :
When Itachi used it on Nagato's summons , it appeared instantly.
When Sasuke used it on Danzo and A , it appeared instantly

And what i mean by Instant is , if the user is focusing on point A , it appears directly at that point without travel time unlike Enton.

I'm stating the obvious here , no fanboying whatsoever , and if you don't believe me , go check the manga.



Against Deidara he was a noob at it , he even said it himself that couldn't control it properly.
And the Gedo Mazo didn't dodge it , its Obito who cancelled it , rewatch the manga if you don't believe me.





How did Neji got Kidomaru ? by channeling chakra through his thread.

Does Susanoo have threads ? no , so the Hyuga have to come close to Susanoo and touch it , and the Susanoo won't stand there watching him , he'll smash him right away.
And even if by some miracle he does manage to touch Susanoo ,it will do absolutely nothing to the user cause he isn't linked to Susanoo like Kidomaru and his threads.

And don't forget that the Susanoo can be reformed.



Yes but the Hyuga has to be as fast as the Raikage to become a threat to Sasuke.

I have to go to bed now, good night.

1) We deduce that the Byakugan user can escape Genjutsu through deductive reasoning.

A) We know that with Chakra Control one can get themselves out of Genjutsu by distrupting their chakra.
B) We know that the Hyuga with their 2nd KKG are highly skilled at Chakra Control
C) It follows logically that the Hyuga can get themselves out of Genjutsu.
D) The only question that follows is whether or not Tsukuyomi can, like regular genjutsu, be broken, which I have shown to be the case.

2) Funny thing is I never brought up Enton, you brought it up saying that it was different than Amaterasu but I dont know why because I never mentioned it. I mentioned that Amaterasu could be dodged and I get this from the facted that A, the 4th Raikage, was able to dodge it. [

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3) He was a newb against Deidara, but the point with it being used against the Edo is again that it is not instant, the technique takes time. If you re-read the manga you will see the Gedo reacting in pain while being Kamui'd.

4) Link Via Chakra, we could argue this point all day but I have nothing conclusive here so ill give it to you.

5) Not neccesarily.

A: Had the time between him seeing Sasuke use Amaterasu and the time it took for it to get to him to dodge it.
Hyuga: Have the time it takes for Sasuke to build up the Chakra, Re-direct it to his eyes using Chakra Control, Cast the spell, then on top of that the time it takes to reach the Hyuga, for them to react and dodge it.

It is my belief that the added time they get makes up for there lack of speed. Which in terms of Shunshin really isnt that much, please read my thread regarding Shunshin and True Speed. [

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[Mr Hiru]

- Can cast Genjutsu by looking into a ninja's eyes

Agreed on everything but this. It's not the sharingan user the one who must see into target's eyes, but the target the one who must look into the sharingan user's eyes.

A blind user can't fall in a visual genjutsu for this sole reason.

In the chapter of Itachi vs Kakashi this is very well explained by Gai, who said clearly that he knew how to fight a Sharingan "looking the legs" of the opponent.

For obvious reasons Sasuke and Itachi forced their opponents to look into their airs with their clever tricks.

 

[Supermanr]

Its said in the manga that uchiha clan is one of the stronget clan along with senju. And all the uchihas have sharingan. So that means sharingan>byakugan

 

[H a n]

:I Hmm.. I see. o.o Well.. Either way.. I think Sharingan has the most gifts.

 

[A$AP Wap]

The Hyugas can be defensive all they want, they still get oneshotted by Amaterasu, Kamui, Kotoamatsukami, Enton techs and Tsukuyomi(unlikely). Susano'o Arrow, Susano'o sword, PS Sword, and the Totsuka Blade fodderizes any Hyuuga before he/she gets the chance to even touch Susano'o.

Rinnegan>EMS>MS>Byakugan>3 Tomoe Sharingan

Bee didn't get caught in Tsukuyomi, it was a sharingan genjutsu. Bee would have been in a B/W world and getting tortured if it was Tsukuyomi and Itachi didn't even activate MS at that time.

Whatever. Then Kakashi got hit with it.

 

[Ahmed1993]

1) We deduce that the Byakugan user can escape Genjutsu through deductive reasoning.

A) We know that with Chakra Control one can get themselves out of Genjutsu by distrupting their chakra.
B) We know that the Hyuga with their 2nd KKG are highly skilled at Chakra Control
C) It follows logically that the Hyuga can get themselves out of Genjutsu.

Even if a Hyuga can break Tsukuyomi ( which is unlikely ) , he can't broke Itachi's Tsukuyomi because it only take 1 second IRL.

D) The only question that follows is whether or not Tsukuyomi can, like regular genjutsu, be broken, which I have shown to be the case.

You compared a regular Itachi genjutsu not Tsukuyomi.

2) Funny thing is I never brought up Enton, you brought it up saying that it was different than Amaterasu but I dont know why because I never mentioned it. I mentioned that Amaterasu could be dodged and I get this from the facted that A, the 4th Raikage, was able to dodge it. [1][2]

Amaterrasu and Enton are the same thing : Black flames , but while Enton have travel time like a normal Katon , Amaterasu appears instantly at the point that the Uchiha is looking at , and if the user focus on that point , the target will get consumed faster.
And a Hyuga unless he is faster than the Sharingan like A, he has no way to dodge it , even if he knows that the Uchiha is charging it.

I didn't brought anything , it's manga FACTS , re read the chapters to understand the characteristic of Enton and Amaterasu

3) He was a newb against Deidara, but the point with it being used against the Edo is again that it is not instant, the technique takes time. If you re-read the manga you will see the Gedo reacting in pain while being Kamui'd.

In pain ? it was screaming the whole time when transforming into the Juubi , and Obito used his Kamui at the same time as Kakashi to cancel it.

4) Link Via Chakra, we could argue this point all day but I have nothing conclusive here so ill give it to you.

Give me what proves that a Hyuga can do that technique from distance ( don't give me the fight between him and kidomaru , because he used the spider web that is linked to Kidomaru to do so)

5) Not neccesarily.

On what point ?

Had the time between him seeing Sasuke use Amaterasu and the time it took for it to get to him to dodge it.
Hyuga: Have the time it takes for Sasuke to build up the Chakra, Re-direct it to his eyes using Chakra Control, Cast the spell, then on top of that the time it takes to reach the Hyuga, for them to react and dodge it.

Again you're wrong , Sasuke hit the after image that Raikage left do to his speed.
And a Hyuga have no such speed.

It is my belief that the added time they get makes up for there lack of speed. Which in terms of Shunshin really isnt that much, please read my thread regarding Shunshin and True Speed. [1]

I read it but even if they have good reflex , they don't have the necessary speed.

A good example of this would be : FG Sasuke vs Lee.

Can't Neji just Counter Sussanoo with Air Plam just like what happened when Hiashi destroy juubi with air palm?

*facepalm* Hinata with the Kyuubi chakra cloak blocked a Juubi hand with air palm.

 

[AzR]

nice thread.. really enjoyed the stuff

about the hyuuga can escape tsukuyomi,its pretty a slim chance i think when been hit by a strong visual jutsu such as tsukuyomi... but! from the points given by OP which i understand is a hyuuga can predict even before the jutsu itself being cast because they can see the chakra points must accumulate somewhere to cast a certain jutsu...

so in tsukuyomi case... a hyuuga can see those chakra points activated first. with those precious seconds,he can decide a counter measure maybe errrr turn his head to the left maybe...hahaha.. and still can see his opponent without any eye contact at all as just the OP said, a hyuga can fight with his eyes closed when necessary..

imo... a hyuuga has the right arsenal to effectively not let themselves being hit by a tsukuyomi but when it did, GG...

 

[Ahmed1993]

about the hyuuga can escape tsukuyomi,its pretty a slim chance i think when been hit by a strong visual jutsu such as tsukuyomi... but! from the points given by OP which i understand is a hyuuga can predict even before the jutsu itself being cast because they can see the chakra points must accumulate somewhere to cast a certain jutsu...

Even if he turn his head ,he still have a vision of nearly 360 degree , so even then he will get eye contact with the Sharingan user.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Even if he turn his head ,he still have a vision of nearly 360 degree , so even then he will get eye contact with the Sharingan user.

Eye contact is not enough, that's just a trigger.

 

[Ahmed1993]

Eye contact is not enough, that's just a trigger.

I don't understand you , to cast Tsukuyomi or any other visual genjutsu , you need to have eye contact with the target and the hyuga have a view of 360 degree with the Byakugan so they are more vulnerable to Tsukuyomi

 

[Mr Hiru]

I don't understand you , to cast Tsukuyomi or any other visual genjutsu , you need to have eye contact with the target and the hyuga have a view of 360 degree with the Byakugan so they are more vulnerable to Tsukuyomi

The thing is, "it depends" on the target and context. Of course, a blind target cannot be affected by a visual genjutsu for its blind nature, but Byakugan users can see chakra flow. Moreover, the Hyuuga which is the expert clan in this doujutsu have developed their chakra flow system further than any clan in Konoha, that's why they can emit chakra with so much precision from any part in the body (follow Sasuke's Arc from Part 1, the fight of Neji).

- See chakra flow
- Control chakra flow

If you put these two pieces together, you can deduce that they can put far more resistence than other clans to Uchiha's genjutsus, even more than the Uchiha's themselves (the Uchiha Clan doesn't have the precision of the Hyuuga when if comes to controlling the chakra flow).

In essence, what genjutsu does is that... it alters the chakra flow in the chakra flow system. The Hyuuga have more resistence developed, and they can predict how is the genjutsu that's going for them with the Byakugan activated.

---

Now, think about this... why do you think Itachi/Sasuke had to be near their targets to cast Tsukuyomi on them?

Eye contact was the trigger to start the genjutsu process (connection between sensorial sender-reciever), and then chakra is emitted to inflict mind damage and chakra alteration on chakra flow system (chakra network disruption process). The connection is made at the speed of light, but the chakra emittion takes time since chakra doesn't travel at the speed of light... so Tsukuyomi needs to be cast near the target.

This said, a low leveled Hyuuga may be more vulnerable to Tsukuyomi at pointblank distance, but depending on his chakra flow system development, this Genjutsu may be more or less effective.

---

Concluding, you need more than eye contact to make Uchiha Visual Genjutsus to be effective... you need a low enough distance to mantain control and good execution speed.

 

[Ahmed1993]

The thing is, "it depends" on the target and context. Of course, a blind target cannot be affected by a visual genjutsu for its blind nature, but Byakugan users can see chakra flow. Moreover, the Hyuuga which is the expert clan in this doujutsu have developed their chakra flow system further than any clan in Konoha, that's why they can emit chakra with so much precision from any part in the body (follow Sasuke's Arc from Part 1, the fight of Neji).

- See chakra flow
- Control chakra flow

If you put these two pieces together, you can deduce that they can put far more resistence than other clans to Uchiha's genjutsus, even more than the Uchiha's themselves (the Uchiha Clan doesn't have the precision of the Hyuuga when if comes to controlling the chakra flow).

In essence, what genjutsu does is that... it alters the chakra flow in the chakra flow system. The Hyuuga have more resistence developed, and they can predict how is the genjutsu that's going for them with the Byakugan activated.

---

Now, think about this... why do you think Itachi/Sasuke had to be near their targets to cast Tsukuyomi on them?

Eye contact was the trigger to start the genjutsu process (connection between sensorial sender-reciever), and then chakra is emitted to inflict mind damage and chakra alteration on chakra flow system (chakra network disruption process). The connection is made at the speed of light, but the chakra emittion takes time since chakra doesn't travel at the speed of light... so Tsukuyomi needs to be cast near the target.

This said, a low leveled Hyuuga may be more vulnerable to Tsukuyomi at pointblank distance, but depending on his chakra flow system development, this Genjutsu may be more or less effective.

---

Concluding, you need more than eye contact to make Uchiha Visual Genjutsus to be effective... you need a low enough distance to mantain control and good execution speed.

I wish i could rep you again but i can't , anyway thank you for enlightening me , and if you have time please tell me what you think of the others points i wrote in my previous post.

 

[FearxDeath]

I don't understand you , to cast Tsukuyomi or any other visual genjutsu , you need to have eye contact with the target and the hyuga have a view of 360 degree with the Byakugan so they are more vulnerable to Tsukuyomi

The required eye contact is mutual. For instance, if Itachi was using Tsukuyomi, and their was someone from a distance, perhaps with binoculars, that could see his eyes but he could not see them. They would not be caught in his genjutsu. They need to look into their eyes but he also needs to look into theirs.

Even if a Hyuga can break Tsukuyomi ( which is unlikely ) , he can't broke Itachi's Tsukuyomi because it only take 1 second IRL.



You compared a regular Itachi genjutsu not Tsukuyomi.



Amaterrasu and Enton are the same thing : Black flames , but while Enton have travel time like a normal Katon , Amaterasu appears instantly at the point that the Uchiha is looking at , and if the user focus on that point , the target will get consumed faster.
And a Hyuga unless he is faster than the Sharingan like A, he has no way to dodge it , even if he knows that the Uchiha is charging it.

I didn't brought anything , it's manga FACTS , re read the chapters to understand the characteristic of Enton and Amaterasu



In pain ? it was screaming the whole time when transforming into the Juubi , and Obito used his Kamui at the same time as Kakashi to cancel it.



Give me what proves that a Hyuga can do that technique from distance ( don't give me the fight between him and kidomaru , because he used the spider web that is linked to Kidomaru to do so)



On what point ?



Again you're wrong , Sasuke hit the after image that Raikage left do to his speed.
And a Hyuga have no such speed.



I read it but even if they have good reflex , they don't have the necessary speed.

A good example of this would be : FG Sasuke vs Lee.




*facepalm* Hinata with the Kyuubi chakra cloak blocked a Juubi hand with air palm.

1) It merely alters the perception of time of the user, If within Itachi's genjutsu he distrupted its chakra then it would end immediantly. To say that the person would not be able to escape because he is inside the genjutsu and 1 sec outside is a day inside makes no difference, because he is the person inside the genjutsu.

2) "You compared a regular Itachi genjutsu not Tsukuyomi." I have no clue what this means.

3) "I didn't brought anything , it's manga FACTS , re read the chapters to understand the characteristic of Enton and Amaterasu" Sigh... Here is what I am saying. I NEVER BROUGHT UP ENTON, I said "A dodged Amaterasu, therefore it is dodgeble". You said "Enton is slow because it takes time to happen but Amaterasu is instant". I said "Wtf are you talking about no one said anything about Enton, why did you bring it up? I agree that Enton takes time and all but that has nothing to do with what we were talking about". Do you get it now?

4) Let me just show you the scans myself so we are not confused. [

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][

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]. Any actions that takes a total of 3-5 scans to be shown is NOT instant. You can argue all day as to whether the Gedo cried in pain, but you cannot say that that is an instant attack, it is fast, but not instant.

5) Link Via Chakra, we could argue this point all day but I have nothing conclusive here so ill give it to you.

6) Ok so here is my question, why doesnt Sasuke go around solo'ing everyone with his unstoppable undodgeble Amaterasu that happens in an instance and cannot be seen coming? Why doesnt he just use his Sharingan to watch for when anyone closes their eyes, then instantly Amaterasu them while they are blinking? And you called me a Hyuga Fan Boy... Ridicoulus...

7) Speed is irrelevant, read the thread I told you to read. [

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]

Sigh... im starting to lose faith in this debate...@__@

 

[iNotorious]

The thing is, "it depends" on the target and context. Of course, a blind target cannot be affected by a visual genjutsu for its blind nature, but Byakugan users can see chakra flow. Moreover, the Hyuuga which is the expert clan in this doujutsu have developed their chakra flow system further than any clan in Konoha, that's why they can emit chakra with so much precision from any part in the body (follow Sasuke's Arc from Part 1, the fight of Neji).

- See chakra flow
- Control chakra flow

If you put these two pieces together, you can deduce that they can put far more resistence than other clans to Uchiha's genjutsus, even more than the Uchiha's themselves (the Uchiha Clan doesn't have the precision of the Hyuuga when if comes to controlling the chakra flow).

In essence, what genjutsu does is that... it alters the chakra flow in the chakra flow system. The Hyuuga have more resistence developed, and they can predict how is the genjutsu that's going for them with the Byakugan activated.

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Now, think about this... why do you think Itachi/Sasuke had to be near their targets to cast Tsukuyomi on them?

Eye contact was the trigger to start the genjutsu process (connection between sensorial sender-reciever), and then chakra is emitted to inflict mind damage and chakra alteration on chakra flow system (chakra network disruption process). The connection is made at the speed of light, but the chakra emittion takes time since chakra doesn't travel at the speed of light... so Tsukuyomi needs to be cast near the target.

This said, a low leveled Hyuuga may be more vulnerable to Tsukuyomi at pointblank distance, but depending on his chakra flow system development, this Genjutsu may be more or less effective.

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Concluding, you need more than eye contact to make Uchiha Visual Genjutsus to be effective... you need a low enough distance to mantain control and good execution speed.

Well said, i hope we get some hyuga character development and some power up for those eyes; hinata.