I wish i could rep you again but i can't , anyway thank you for enlightening me , and if you have time please tell me what you think of the others points i wrote in my previous post.
About the resistance of Byakugan user to Sharingan's genjutsus: You were near, but we must take in mind the users. Hyuuga don't have just these eyes, they have a strong body with (usually) a lot of experience controlling chakra with extreme precision.
About the futileness of an average Hyuuga against Sharingan's Enton Element/Amaterasu: Indeed, I give you the reason in this one. Any ninja has to be very skilled, clever and/or fast to get out alive from that attack, specially when he talk about the Enton's Legacy, Sasuke. He has developed this unique element to a level in which its skills are way too versatile (and fast when he is in a good, non-fatigued state). Of course, there are ways for the Hyuuga to counter Enton, if they are clever enough.
i.e. Hakkeshou Kaiten with a big radius would leave time for a Hyuuga to escape from the black flames, using a chakra barrier as a protector so Enton would burn chakra instead of burning the target. Air Palm would work too since it's a projection of chakra and not a Fuuton move. Now, if Sasuke uses an Arrow (piercing Enton), it would be another story ... the Hyuuga should have to be able to burst massive quantity of chakra in an instant to deflect that attack (Kidomarou's arrow couldn't be entirely deflected, but Neji evolved in terms of Taijutsu/Ninjutsu since part 1).
1) It merely alters the perception of time of the user, If within Itachi's genjutsu he distrupted its chakra then it would end immediantly. To say that the person would not be able to escape because he is inside the genjutsu and 1 sec outside is a day inside makes no difference, because he is the person inside the genjutsu.
I see , but not all Hyuga can do it , and while he disturb his chakra flow , the Uchiha can attack.
"I didn't brought anything , it's manga FACTS , re read the chapters to understand the characteristic of Enton and Amaterasu" Sigh... Here is what I am saying. I NEVER BROUGHT UP ENTON, I said "A dodged Amaterasu, therefore it is dodgeble". You said "Enton is slow because it takes time to happen but Amaterasu is instant". I said "Wtf are you talking about no one said anything about Enton, why did you bring it up? I agree that Enton takes time and all but that has nothing to do with what we were talking about". Do you get it now?
And Enton is an MS/EMS technique , so you don't have to neglect it.
Let me just show you the scans myself so we are not confused. [1][2]. Any actions that takes a total of 3-5 scans to be shown is NOT instant. You can argue all day as to whether the Gedo cried in pain, but you cannot say that that is an instant attack, it is fast, but not instant.
Are you blind ?
Look yourself , he used Kamui , and he is having a monologue explaining us that he is gonna hit the neck and before he start to rip the neck of the GM , the Kamui is cancelled.
5) Link Via Chakra, we could argue this point all day but I have nothing conclusive here so ill give it to you.
Well if you always throw the same phrase , i'm gonna do the same since you don't want to admit that you're wrong :
An Uchiha can see chakra with his Sharingan ( not as detailed as the Byakugan but still he can ).
Then we haven't seen any Hyuga do a Link via his own Chakra ,Nejii did a link via Kidomaru's chakra thread and that's it , if he want to do the same with Susanoo , he have to get close and touch it , and therefor getting smashed to death.
And even if he manages to survive after doing his technique , it will do absolutely nothing to the Uchiha , cause the Susanoo is not linked to his body like Kidomaru and his threads , and Susanoo can be reformed.
Ok so here is my question, why doesnt Sasuke go around solo'ing everyone with his unstoppable undodgeble Amaterasu that happens in an instance and cannot be seen coming? Why doesnt he just use his Sharingan to watch for when anyone closes their eyes, then instantly Amaterasu them while they are blinking? And you called me a Hyuga Fan Boy... Ridicoulus...
I'm tired of explaining this to you :
The Amaterasu can be dodged by a person faster than the Sharingan like A.
The hyuga haven't such speed so they got owned , whether you like it or not.
And why he don't go soloing every one with it ? its simple :
Naruto is faster than A.
Minato is faster too.
Obito is faster than all of them , and he can get rid of it with the Rinnegan or his 4 element Jutsu.
Madara can get rid of it with the Rinnegan , and probably he has the Amaterasu ability so it mean he can stop it.
7) Speed is irrelevant, read the thread I told you to read. [1]
I've read it , and Even if you know what about to hit you ,If your body doesn't have the necessary speed you can't escape/dodge what's coming to you
A good example would be FG Sasuke ve Lee ( and you already putted that example >.> )
Sigh... im starting to lose faith in this debate...@__@
About the resistance of Byakugan user to Sharingan's genjutsus: You were near, but we must take in mind the users. Hyuuga don't have just these eyes, they have a strong body with (usually) a lot of experience controlling chakra with extreme precision.
About the futileness of an average Hyuuga against Sharingan's Enton Element/Amaterasu: Indeed, I give you the reason in this one. Any ninja has to be very skilled, clever and/or fast to get out alive from that attack, specially when he talk about the Enton's Legacy, Sasuke. He has developed this unique element to a level in which its skills are way too versatile (and fast when he is in a good, non-fatigued state). Of course, there are ways for the Hyuuga to counter Enton, if they are clever enough.
i.e. Hakkeshou Kaiten with a big radius would leave time for a Hyuuga to escape from the black flames, using a chakra barrier as a protector so Enton would burn chakra instead of burning the target. Air Palm would work too since it's a projection of chakra and not a Fuuton move. Now, if Sasuke uses an Arrow (piercing Enton), it would be another story ... the Hyuuga should have to be able to burst massive quantity of chakra in an instant to deflect that attack (Kidomarou's arrow couldn't be entirely deflected, but Neji evolved in terms of Taijutsu/Ninjutsu since part 1).
About the resistance of Byakugan user to Sharingan's genjutsus: You were near, but we must take in mind the users. Hyuuga don't have just these eyes, they have a strong body with (usually) a lot of experience controlling chakra with extreme precision.
About the futileness of an average Hyuuga against Sharingan's Enton Element/Amaterasu: Indeed, I give you the reason in this one. Any ninja has to be very skilled, clever and/or fast to get out alive from that attack, specially when he talk about the Enton's Legacy, Sasuke. He has developed this unique element to a level in which its skills are way too versatile (and fast when he is in a good, non-fatigued state). Of course, there are ways for the Hyuuga to counter Enton, if they are clever enough.
i.e. Hakkeshou Kaiten with a big radius would leave time for a Hyuuga to escape from the black flames, using a chakra barrier as a protector so Enton would burn chakra instead of burning the target. Air Palm would work too since it's a projection of chakra and not a Fuuton move. Now, if Sasuke uses an Arrow (piercing Enton), it would be another story ... the Hyuuga should have to be able to burst massive quantity of chakra in an instant to deflect that attack (Kidomarou's arrow couldn't be entirely deflected, but Neji evolved in terms of Taijutsu/Ninjutsu since part 1).
Keep in mind that when you talk about their skill controlling the Chakra network etc, that that is not in connection to them being able to emit chakra from their chakra points. I believe that that ability is really a KKG passed down through the Hyuga, I inferred this through Kakashi's statement "The Byakugan is one of the Bloodline abilities passed down through the Hyuga" Paraphrased. This infers that the Hyuga have a 2nd KKG, and the most logically choice would be their ability to emit chakra from their chakra points, in my theory I equate this to an intrinsic ability to control chakra at the highest level. Ofcourse like any ability the more training you have the better you are with the, but all hyuga are born with this elevated chakra control regardless of training. Much like the Byakugan, the more you train with it the better you will be with it, but all Hyuga regardless of training have a Byakugan, which comes along with certain perks.
Lastly your statement about Enton burning the chakra rather than the user is spot on, your a freakin genuis =D, I was actually going to say this myself and add it to the thread but you beat me to it. I got the idea from Sasuke's fight with Itachi when Itachi used Amaterasu on the fireball and it burnt through it. If a Hyuga was to use Heavenly Rotation vs Amaterasu it would burn there Chakra barrier first allowing them time to escape.
Also I will be adding a new section to the thread regarding exactly what speed is, this is in reference to my True Speed thread I created a while back. Basically within the thread I established the premise that all ninja are more or less the same speed as most all of them utilize Shunshin for high speed movements. This leads to the points that what is important is not ones speed but rather ones quick reflexes which allows you to utilize your speed in a fight, that paired with the Hyugas ability to predicted their opponent they in a sense have the highest level of reflex.
Also keep in mind that when A dodged Sasuke's Amaterasu he was using Shunshin which was amplified by his lighting armor.
Based on the same principle of creating a genjutsu, but without the trigger...
In order to create the Amaterasu, you need to project chakra and make it travel a certain distance before making it appear with the element. The Hyuuga could be able to predict the attack and get out of the Uchiha's vision range, but... if the Hyuuga can't see the Uchiha executing it, literally, it's fried. lol XD
Based on the same principle of creating a genjutsu, but without the trigger...
In order to create the Amaterasu, you need to project chakra and make it travel a certain distance before making it appear with the element. The Hyuuga could be able to predict the attack and get out of the Uchiha's vision range
Keep in mind that when you talk about their skill controlling the Chakra network etc, that that is not in connection to them being able to emit chakra from their chakra points.I believe that that ability is really a KKG passed down through the Hyuga, I inferred this through Kakashi's statement "The Byakugan is one of the Bloodline abilities passed down through the Hyuga" Paraphrased.This infers that the Hyuga have a 2nd KKG, and the most logically choice would be their ability to emit chakra from their chakra points, in my theory I equate this to an intrinsic ability to control chakra at the highest level. Ofcourse like any ability the more training you have the better you are with the, but all hyuga are born with this elevated chakra control regardless of training. Much like the Byakugan, the more you train with it the better you will be with it, but all Hyuga regardless of training have a Byakugan, which comes along with certain perks.
Lastly your statement about Enton burning the chakra rather than the user is spot on, your a freakin genuis =D, I was actually going to say this myself and add it to the thread but you beat me to it. I got the idea from Sasuke's fight with Itachi when Itachi used Amaterasu on the fireball and it burnt through it. If a Hyuga was to use Heavenly Rotation vs Amaterasu it would burn there Chakra barrier first allowing them time to escape.
Also I will be adding a new section to the thread regarding exactly what speed is, this is in reference to my True Speed thread I created a while back. Basically within the thread I established the premise that all ninja are more or less the same speed as most all of them utilize Shunshin for high speed movements. This leads to the points that what is important is not ones speed but rather ones quick reflexes which allows you to utilize your speed in a fight, that paired with the Hyugas ability to predicted their opponent they in a sense have the highest level of reflex.
Also keep in mind that when A dodged Sasuke's Amaterasu he was using Shunshin which was amplified by his lighting armor.
a) Indeed I took this in mind, but I didn't mention it so explicitely. Thanks for pointing it out. I didn't talk about the chakra points (tenketsu), I was talking about the chakra network (explicitely chakra flow system).
b) I had a Hyuuga as a character in other forum for RPG, so I quite know this clan... its weaknesses and its strengths. And this thing was a trick that I used when I was Kazekage against two Akatsuki xD.
In response to this I want you to look at the following scans, in which we see Itachi casting Amaterasu but instead of it hitting Sasuke it devours the fire instead, afterwards Itachi's casts it again on Sasuke, logic dictates that if Sasuke had merely shot another fireball then Itachi would have had to cast it again at Sasuke etc... Amaterasu devours whatever the caster is looking at at the time, if that happens to be something composed of Chakra then Amaterasu would focus on that rather than whoever is behind said Chakra. Heavenly Rotations works by encassing yourself with a barrier made of Chakra, you see where im going from here.
I see , but not all Hyuga can do it , and while he disturb his chakra flow , the Uchiha can attack.
You did say this :
And Enton is an MS/EMS technique , so you don't have to neglect it.
Are you blind ?
Look yourself , he used Kamui , and he is having a monologue explaining us that he is gonna hit the neck and before he start to rip the neck of the GM , the Kamui is cancelled.
Well if you always throw the same phrase , i'm gonna do the same since you don't want to admit that you're wrong :
An Uchiha can see chakra with his Sharingan ( not as detailed as the Byakugan but still he can ).
Then we haven't seen any Hyuga do a Link via his own Chakra ,Nejii did a link via Kidomaru's chakra thread and that's it , if he want to do the same with Susanoo , he have to get close and touch it , and therefor getting smashed to death.
And even if he manages to survive after doing his technique , it will do absolutely nothing to the Uchiha , cause the Susanoo is not linked to his body like Kidomaru and his threads , and Susanoo can be reformed.
I'm tired of explaining this to you :
The Amaterasu can be dodged by a person faster than the Sharingan like A.
The hyuga haven't such speed so they got owned , whether you like it or not.
And why he don't go soloing every one with it ? its simple :
Naruto is faster than A.
Minato is faster too.
Obito is faster than all of them , and he can get rid of it with the Rinnegan or his 4 element Jutsu.
Madara can get rid of it with the Rinnegan , and probably he has the Amaterasu ability so it mean he can stop it.
I've read it , and Even if you know what about to hit you ,If your body doesn't have the necessary speed you can't escape/dodge what's coming to you
A good example would be FG Sasuke ve Lee ( and you already putted that example >.> )
That's why i did want to debate with you , i knew since the start that you won't understand... -__-
1) This is where the perception control works against Itachi, 1 second in the real world equates to 1 day in the genjutsu, which means that if the Hyuga breaks the genjutsu as soon as he notices he is in their, which would translate to about 10 seconds within the genjutsu, then that would translate over to being mere milliseconds in the real world.
2) Yes, Enton is a MS ability, but I neglected for the fact that Amaterasu is the better counterpart. If the Hyuga can beat Amterasu then Enton theoritically should be a walk in the park. I neglected it wasnt of any major importance, if that wasnt the case I would have to talk about kamui, and shishuis MS ability and Madara's etc... I dont have time like that x__x
3) There are 3 difference scans of the Gedo being Kamui, when the Gedo first starts beign Kamui'd we see Obito in the air evading Naruto's attack, when it stops we see him on the floor holding Madara's Fan... There is no way you cannot say that this all happened under a 3 second time frame.
4) we could argue this point all day but I have nothing conclusive here so ill give it to you. Let me explain what it means, it means that I could argue all day on how the Susano's is connected to the Uchiha through some kind of Chakra control, as I doubt it is merely telekinetic, but you will simply dismiss everything I say and I have nothing conclusive, as in a scan, that I can show you in order to prove my point. And I do not like arguing conjecture, so I agree to disagree on this one and let you win the topic.
5) You named 4 people, who may I add are admitadly the faster people in the Naruto-verse. The only problem is that there are more than 4 people in the Naruto-verse. By your logic Sasuke solo's these following people at low difficulty simply because they are not as fast as A. Hashirama, Tobimaru, Orochimaru, Hiruzen, Killer Bee (Who Sasuke already fought and pretty much lost too, only reason he didnt die was because Bee ran away using the fight as an opportunity to escape the village), Kakashi, pretty much everyone in Konoha other than Naruto and Minato, etc.. The list goes on and on. This is how I deduce your arguement:
A) Amaterasu happens instantly and therefore the only way to survive the attack is to be fast enough to dodge it.
B) You need to be as fast as A or faster in order to Dodge Amaterasu.
C) All but 3-4 ninja in the Naruto-verse are as fast as A if not faster.
D) Therefore, All but 3-4 ninja in the Naruto-verse would die to Amaterasu.
*BTW in the scan above we see Sasuke during his fight with Itachi out running his Amaterasu for a period of time. Your logic is obviously flawed my friend.*
6) Oh I see what you mean, I must admit that is an extremely good point. You basically used my argument against the Sharingans predictive ability and turned it against me. Touche. So then the question becomes a comparison to Sasukes lack of speed during his fight with Rock Lee compared to a Shunshin being used to dodge Amaterasu. Ill concede this point to you because its starting to turn into conjecture and I dont like to argue about things that I know I am not completely sure of, well done. =D
In response to this I want you to look at the following scans, in which we see Itachi casting Amaterasu but instead of it hitting Sasuke it devours the fire instead, afterwards Itachi's casts it again on Sasuke, logic dictates that if Sasuke had merely shot another fireball then Itachi would have had to cast it again at Sasuke etc... Amaterasu devours whatever the caster is looking at at the time, if that happens to be something composed of Chakra then Amaterasu would focus on that rather than whoever is behind said Chakra. Heavenly Rotations works by encassing yourself with a barrier made of Chakra, you see where im going from here.
I know but while the Amaterasu is devouring heavenly rotation , the hyuga will step back and in that moment he get hit by another Amaterasu.
1) This is where the perception control works against Itachi, 1 second in the real world equates to 1 day in the genjutsu, which means that if the Hyuga breaks the genjutsu as soon as he notices he is in their, which would translate to about 10 seconds within the genjutsu, then that would translate over to being mere milliseconds in the real world.
2) Yes, Enton is a MS ability, but I neglected for the fact that Amaterasu is the better counterpart. If the Hyuga can beat Amterasu then Enton theoritically should be a walk in the park. I neglected it wasnt of any major importance, if that wasnt the case I would have to talk about kamui, and shishuis MS ability and Madara's etc... I dont have time like that x__x
Enton is more dangerous because the user can launch Enton on the Hyuga and Naturally the Hyuga would block it with heavenly rotation , and in that time , the Uchiha surround the entire place with Enton , meaning after the first Enton consume the heavenly rotation , the Hyuga is done for.
And Hirudora , you forgot The yasaka no magatma of Enton
3) There are 3 difference scans of the Gedo being Kamui, when the Gedo first starts beign Kamui'd we see Obito in the air evading Naruto's attack, when it stops we see him on the floor holding Madara's Fan... There is no way you cannot say that this all happened under a 3 second time frame.
Yes but the Kamui appeared in the air , and in that 3 seconds Kakashi is having a monologue telling us that he would aim for the neck.
4) we could argue this point all day but I have nothing conclusive here so ill give it to you. Let me explain what it means, it means that I could argue all day on how the Susano's is connected to the Uchiha through some kind of Chakra control, as I doubt it is merely telekinetic, but you will simply dismiss everything I say and I have nothing conclusive, as in a scan, that I can show you in order to prove my point. And I do not like arguing conjecture, so I agree to disagree on this one and let you win the topic.
Maybe the Susanoo is connected to the User via some kind of chakra control like you said , its possible but he still need to be close to Susanoo to do so because we haven't seen him do his technique with his own chakra alone from a distance.
And don't forget the shield of Amaterasu around Susanoo
By your logic Sasuke solo's these following people at low difficulty simply because they are not as fast as A. Hashirama, Tobimaru, Orochimaru, Hiruzen,
I forget Tobirama , he has FTG so he is faster as well and he can fell chakra too , as for Hashirama he will defend himself with Mokuton and with his sage mode he can fell chakra too. ( and don't forget that his wife is Mito so he is a seal master for sure
Orochimaro can evade it with his perfect kawarimi.
Hiruzen don't know.
Killer Bee (Who Sasuke already fought and pretty much lost too, only reason he didnt die was because Bee ran away using the fight as an opportunity to escape the village)
Gai with 6 + gates no , other than him ,probably Lee with 6+ Gates and the ones that i stated , yes they get soloed , but why did you expect ?
The Amaterasu is an S rank Jutsu and the most powerful fire in existence.
A) Amaterasu happens instantly and therefore the only way to survive the attack is to be fast enough to dodge it.
If you sense it ,you can't block it , but you need to be careful for the second one.
*BTW in the scan above we see Sasuke during his fight with Itachi out running his Amaterasu for a period of time. Your logic is obviously flawed my friend.*
First of , Itachi was near blind ( check his vision after his Tsukuyomi .
And Second of , he was aiming at the wing of Sasuke.
We all know that he didn't want to kill Sasuke and he wanted to release him from the CS.
6) Oh I see what you mean, I must admit that is an extremely good point. You basically used my argument against the Sharingans predictive ability and turned it against me. Touche. So then the question becomes a comparison to Sasukes lack of speed during his fight with Rock Lee compared to a Shunshin being used to dodge Amaterasu. Ill concede this point to you because its starting to turn into conjecture and I dont like to argue about things that I know I am not completely sure of, well done.
1) Like Sasuke got hit after he stopped breathing Fire...
2) =D
3) To my knowledge Sasuke has only used Enton in close ranges, but I could be wrong, regardless I dont want to get into a debate on how a Hyuga can or cannot survive a jutsu x__x
4) I see, he slows himself down accidentally by talking, in a situation where speed is necessary he would have said nothing and killed the Gedo in a instant... The guy completed 2 full sentences, and lets not forget that Kamui was stopped before it actually finished, which means that it could have taken another second or 2 to complete.
5) So now you create these imaginary situations where others can evade but a Hyuga cannot lol x__x, hashirama can defend with his Mokuton? Can he cast jutsu faster than an instant, because all it takes is an instant? And if that is the case why cant he Hyuga cast any jutsu of their chosing within that same time... do you see how everything begins to fall apart when you claim a jutsu is undodgeble/unbeatable? Especially seeing to how we have see people beat Amaterasu several times in the series, Sasuke outran it and then used perfect kawarimi when he did get hit, Killer Bee used a clone, Sasuke also deflected it with a fireball, Raikage simply dodged it, etc...
6) Fair enough... The killer bee who fought Sasuke was a noob, who do you think would win, Sasuke or the killer bee that fought the Juubi...
7) Kakashi is going to Kamui Amaterasu? Exactly how does that even work?
8) So now you saying that you can dodge it if you sense it, yet the Hyuga can sense it, but they still cant dodge it.
9) Hitting him in the wing was irrelevant because he could put it out, thats actually what he did, he let it burn Sasuke then put it out to keep it from destroying his eyes, Zetsu even said this.
This above is starting to get repetitive, im just going agree to disagree on this one... You right, Amaterasu one-shots low diff every single ninja in the naruto-verse other than maybe 10 or 12 and hey even against then he can just use Susan'o and Yatagama right? Therefore no one can beat Sasuke 1v1... Sasuke is so cool...
So before going to bed , i'm gonna post a reply , but please next time quote my post instead of "1) 2) etc... " , it become easier for me to reply you.
1) Like Sasuke got hit after he stopped breathing Fire...
Itachi didn't want to kill Sasuke , he instantly closed his eye after that , keep that in mind
4) I see, he slows himself down accidentally by talking, in a situation where speed is necessary he would have said nothing and killed the Gedo in a instant... The guy completed 2 full sentences, and lets not forget that Kamui was stopped before it actually finished, which means that it could have taken another second or 2 to complete.
So now you create these imaginary situations where others can evade but a Hyuga cannot lol x__x, hashirama can defend with his Mokuton? Can he cast jutsu faster than an instant, because all it takes is an instant? And if that is the case why cant he Hyuga cast any jutsu of their chosing within that same time... do you see how everything begins to fall apart when you claim a jutsu is undodgeble/unbeatable? Especially seeing to how we have see people beat Amaterasu several times in the series,
Read properly next time , I , Hirudora and yourself said that a Hyuga can feel it with the Byakugan and block it with heavenly rotation and escape , but he risk to get hit by a second one in that lap time ,same goes for Hashirama since he can feel it with his Sage mode and block it with the Mokuton.
Sasuke outran it and then used perfect kawarimi when he did get hit
It can be dodged if you have the necessary speed to outrun a Sharingan which the Hyuga lack.
Hyuga fulfill the first part : " Sensing " , but they block with heavenly rotation instead of dodging.
9) Hitting him in the wing was irrelevant because he could put it out, thats actually what he did, he let it burn Sasuke then put it out to keep it from destroying his eyes, Zetsu even said this.
The flames stopped when they consumed the empty shell Sasuke left after using Perfect Kawarimi.
Itachi don't have the ability to turn it down , and don't take Zetsu's words as fact because he knows nothing about Itachi :
He didn't know Susanoo , he didn't know he had Yata and Totsuka , heck he didn't even see Itachi activate Susanoo to block Kirin, so how in the hell can you take this guy's words for fact ?
This above is starting to get repetitive, im just going agree to disagree on this one... You right, Amaterasu one-shots low diff every single ninja in the naruto-verse other than maybe 10 or 12 and hey even against then he can just use Susan'o and Yatagama right? Therefore no one can beat Sasuke 1v1... Sasuke is so cool...
Well, it's a long read, and not everything is "facts". I do agree, that Sasuke can and did use Tsukuyomi, but I don't see, how a Byakugan user can escape it:
1) You cannot control your own movements, once entrapped by Tsukuyomi.
2) Who says Bee escaped it? In the anime, he was down for a few seconds, and we know the jutsu only lasts a few seconds. It was the octopus, that took over afterwards in order to protect Bee. As I see it, Bee didn't escape the jutsu, it simply ended.
3) Tsukuyomi isn't a genjutsu, because it inflicts physical damage. It's not as simple as other genjutsus, because it's a ninjutsu!!
Now as for an Uchiha without MS abilities, I do agree, that a byakugan wielder has some sort of advantage, however, when it comes to tajutsu, the sharingan is still pretty awesome, since he can track the opponents movements, and thus avoid taking any fatal hits. This of course requires, that he knows how the byakugan works, and which dangers to look out for.
Of course depending on the people fighting, this may be more complicated than so, since you still need a body to cope with the enemy, and since Hyuga are specialized in tajutsu, this could be difficult. On the other hand, if the Uchiha is a genius, he will quickly learn the Hyugas fighting style, and then the battle will come down to who is superior in stamina.
Finally, if I were to comment on your point about Susanoo, it seems rather simplified, and those 2 situations are quite incomparable. First of all, it would be quite risking and difficult for a Hyuga to get in contact with Susanoo. Especially, if the user has amaterasu as well (which is kinda given).
Secondly, Susanoo isn't directly connected to user. It hasn't been very well explained, but much seems like Susanoo is controlled through ones will. I think it wouldn't be possible to hurt the Uchiha, unless he was in direct touch with Susanoo. However, what I do like about that example, is that any Hyuga would have quite an easy time against a puppet master.
Reason sharingan is better at the moment because the bad guys are Uchiha and they clan don't have a seal on your head that can end you life any second. ^^
So before going to bed , i'm gonna post a reply , but please next time quote my post instead of "1) 2) etc... " , it become easier for me to reply you.
Itachi didn't want to kill Sasuke , he instantly closed his eye after that , keep that in mind
Ok.
Read properly next time , I , Hirudora and yourself said that a Hyuga can feel it with the Byakugan and block it with heavenly rotation and escape , but he risk to get hit by a second one in that lap time ,same goes for Hashirama since he can feel it with his Sage mode and block it with the Mokuton.
He didn't outran it , i said an near blind Itachi was aiming for his wing , he didn't want to kill him and want to release him from the Cursed seal.
As for the perfect Kawarimi , yes its a counter for Amaterasu.
He used a Kawarimi thanks to Sasuke. ( he cuted his tentacle )
You didn't answer my question >.>
Like Obito did when he got hit with it , and here is how it works :
Kakashi looks at he burning part of his body and Kamui it ( but he have to endure the pain of being burned lool ).
It can be dodged if you have the necessary speed to outrun a Sharingan which the Hyuga lack.
Hyuga fulfill the first part : " Sensing " , but they block with heavenly rotation instead of dodging.
The flames stopped when they consumed the empty shell Sasuke left after using Perfect Kawarimi.
Itachi don't have the ability to turn it down , and don't take Zetsu's words as fact because he knows nothing about Itachi :
He didn't know Susanoo , he didn't know he had Yata and Totsuka , heck he didn't even see Itachi activate Susanoo to block Kirin, so how in the hell can you take this guy's words for fact ?
Now your anti-Sasuke part is rising , dude the guy has EMS and he is easily Kage + Lvl now ( MS Sasuke beat a Kage )
Do you want him to get beaten by Kiba , Hinata , Ino....? WTF ?
And beside Amaterasu is an S rank jutsu , do you understand what is an S rank ?
I was going to reply to all the things you brought up but I believe that this has reached a place where we must simply agree to disagree so im gonna end it at that, but for the lulz I well leave an ending statement/scans you can interpret and twist them as you like but I am just going by what kishi has chosen to show us in said scans:
4) This is what happens when you kamui body parts.
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5) You know what else is an S_Rank technique? Raikari.. Does that solo every ninja just because its an S Rank? No
I Hate Saucegay because I dont believe that Sasuke can easily Solo all but 10-12 ninja in the Naruto-verse with 1 jutsu and not break a sweat.. Im just going to agree to disagree.
Well, it's a long read, and not everything is "facts". I do agree, that Sasuke can and did use Tsukuyomi, but I don't see, how a Byakugan user can escape it:
1) You cannot control your own movements, once entrapped by Tsukuyomi.
2) Who says Bee escaped it? In the anime, he was down for a few seconds, and we know the jutsu only lasts a few seconds. It was the octopus, that took over afterwards in order to protect Bee. As I see it, Bee didn't escape the jutsu, it simply ended.
3) Tsukuyomi isn't a genjutsu, because it inflicts physical damage. It's not as simple as other genjutsus, because it's a ninjutsu!!
Now as for an Uchiha without MS abilities, I do agree, that a byakugan wielder has some sort of advantage, however, when it comes to tajutsu, the sharingan is still pretty awesome, since he can track the opponents movements, and thus avoid taking any fatal hits. This of course requires, that he knows how the byakugan works, and which dangers to look out for.
Of course depending on the people fighting, this may be more complicated than so, since you still need a body to cope with the enemy, and since Hyuga are specialized in tajutsu, this could be difficult. On the other hand, if the Uchiha is a genius, he will quickly learn the Hyugas fighting style, and then the battle will come down to who is superior in stamina.
Finally, if I were to comment on your point about Susanoo, it seems rather simplified, and those 2 situations are quite incomparable. First of all, it would be quite risking and difficult for a Hyuga to get in contact with Susanoo. Especially, if the user has amaterasu as well (which is kinda given).
Secondly, Susanoo isn't directly connected to user. It hasn't been very well explained, but much seems like Susanoo is controlled through ones will. I think it wouldn't be possible to hurt the Uchiha, unless he was in direct touch with Susanoo. However, what I do like about that example, is that any Hyuga would have quite an easy time against a puppet master.
1) No need to argue about the Tsukuyomi, here are 2 Manga scans that disprove your points 2 and 3. Your point 1 is non conclusive.
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2) If the Hyuga is a genius he will overcome the Uchiha learning his fighting still, but on top of that the Uchiha cannot learn the Hyuga fighting style as they do not possess there KKG.
3) I disagree on your point on whether the Susan'o is connected to the Uchiha, which is the same point almost everyone is making about the Susan'o, but this is all conjecture, no way to prove whether it is or isnt, we will have to wait for Kishi to explain this more.
4) I never said it would be easy lolI mean it would still come down to the ninja, I this thread I was merely trying to show that it is possible for the hyuga to overcome the Uchiha, which most seem to think is impossible. @__@
Reason sharingan is better at the moment because the bad guys are Uchiha and they clan don't have a seal on your head that can end you life any second. ^^
I can't agree with the immunity to genjutsu thing. While there is not doubt that they have at the very least more resistance to genjutsu than average ninja, breaking Tsukuyomi is just not there. Firstly, I don't believe Sasuke's genjutsu is Tsukuyomi. It has none of the properties that make a Tsukuyomi a Tsukuyomi, and has never been called Tsukuyomi. The only time he did use a name, it was called Sharingan Genjutsu. The grabbing the eye thing can't really be used as evidence, as he does that with regular 3 tomoe genjutsu, as seen when he used it on C. I also don't see how you can give a Perfect Jinchuriki feat to anyone else. What you said about closing the eyes seems plausible though.
I also don't agree with the true speed thing. It is already shown, way back when from Sasuke's fight with Lee, that seeing the attack means nothing if you don't have the speed to react. Kakashi with sharingan could see Sasuke's arrow coming and could not do anything. From this, I don't see how Bykugan
A) Although speed of Shunshin varies depending on said ninjas speed and skill with it it is my belief that one can only be so fast, when moving at those speeds ones actual speed with shunshin begins to matter less and ones reflexes and ability to react to what your opponent is going to do begins to matter more, thus we see that Reflex > Speed.
I don't agree, as physical speed and reflex are both necessary. They go hand in hand. Kakashi could react to Sasuke's arrow, and could see it coming, but could not physically dodge, because his physical speed was lacking.
B) With there Byakugans ability to disect jutsu before they are cast the Byakugan user has a certain predictive capability.
C) Said predictive capability acts as a makeshift reflex.
Did you just give a Sharingan ability to Byakugan? Oh well. It is a plausible ability. I doubt it would be on the level of Sharingan however. If it was, the manga would have noted it to be.
D) Byakugans reflexive ability is on the level, theoritically ofcourse, higher than even the Raikage. As it was said that with the Lighting Armor on the Raikage was unbeatable because his synapses fire at the speed of light, which would mean that as soon as he saw your attack he could react instantly, this paired with the speed of his shunshin made him untouchable. But the Byakugan user surpasses him as they can see what your doing and react Before you even attack. Perhaps they may be slower speed wise but with shunshin and a head start a well trained Byakugan user can replicate this untouchability.
It all falls apart right here. Firstly, I don't even get how you could compare A to Byakugan. That comparison makes no sense to me. Byakugan itself has no reflexes. It merely augments the user's reflex. And it can't even do this to the level of a sharingan because it's predictive ability is not on the level of sharingan at all. This is all on the ninja's body. Obviously it helps, but that is not enough. The fight between Sasuke and Lee made it clear that seeing something does not mean you can react to it. For one, the Sharingan's predictive ability surpasses Byakugan's. Sharingan could already see what was happening and react; that is one of its inherent abilities, yet Kakashi could not dodge Sasuke's arrow. Why? Because speed is necessary. Reflex alone won't help if you physically lack the speed. Byakugan cannot up speed. It can't augment bodily abilities at all. The thought of byakugan replicate A is ludicrous. You are basically saying they can get with reflex alone what A got with SPEED and reflex.
Here I just want to correct a few things and inform people a little bit about what we call the Byakuga:
1
) Kakashi claimed the Uchiha came from the Hyuga, which would imply that the Sage of was a Hyuga. [1]
Kakashi clearly stated that this was a rumor. And Sharingan is descended from the Rinnegan via the elder son's doujutsu.
2) Kakashi also claimed the Rinnegan was a mutation, since we have reason to believe the Sage was a Hyuga based on the above then it could likely be a mutation of the Byakugan. [1]
Fair enough. Although their is more to a doujutsu than that. It is also better at rinnegan at seeing chakra, but hell if I'd call it better based on that.
4) Kakashi states that the Hyuga are the oldest and the greatest of the leaf. [1]
Yet the Uchiha and Senju were considered the strongest historically. Of course what he said does have some merit, as when he said it there was no Uchiha and a only one confirmed Senju.
It can only happen so many times before you stop calling it a arbitrary mistake and start calling it an uncanny coincidence.
The Uchiha was also called the strongest, and the Senju was said to outclass them. When one hired Senju, those who opposed had no choice but to hire Uchiha, and vice versa. The Uchiha>Hyuuga. Deal with it. The Hyuuga only call themselves the strongest because of their are obviously no Uchiha and Senju.
No , the Sharingan has been shown to track fast opponent the Hyuga can't. ( Sasuke with 3 T Sharingan outclassed Naruto with Kyuubi chakra while Nejii had difficult time to keep up with him and lost in the end ).
Who told you he was aiming for Sasuke ? he was probably aiming for the background at first ( to not hurt Sasuke ) , then he aimed at Sasuke's wing ( with a near blind vision ). Because again he didn't want to kill him
As for the Amaterasu , it stopped naturally after consuming Sasuke's wing.
I proved that Zetsu's words can't be taken as fact.
We have no proof that Kamui hurt its user , and i have examples for that :
Did Sasuke get burned when he wielded an Enton sword into his hand ? No
Did Susanoo get burned when it wielded an Enton arrow or an Enton sword ? No
And how did Obito get rid of the Amaterasu ? as far as i knows he don't have the Amaterasu ability to turn it down.
You know what else is an S_Rank technique? Raikari.. Does that solo every ninja just because its an S Rank? No
Mei and Hashirama are both Kage level , Hashirama solo everyone except current Madara , and Mei don't.
Sasuke have 4.5 in speed and Minato have 5 , does Sasuke come close to be as fast as Minato ? No Do you get my point ?
I Hate Saucegay because I dont believe that Sasuke can easily Solo all but 10-12 ninja in the Naruto-verse with 1 jutsu and not break a sweat.. Im just going to agree to disagree.
2) If the Hyuga is a genius he will overcome the Uchiha learning his fighting still, but on top of that the Uchiha cannot learn the Hyuga fighting style as they do not possess there KKG.
... the Hyuuga should have to be able to burst massive quantity of chakra in an instant to deflect that attack (Kidomarou's arrow couldn't be entirely deflected, but Neji evolved in terms of Taijutsu/Ninjutsu since part 1).
