FearxDeath
Jōnin Strategist 🧠
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I want to make it clear that this is not neccesariy a Byakugan vs Sharingan debate, but seeing as when someone starts to talk about the Byakugan the common reply is that the Sharingan is better I decided to work that into the thread as well. It will be split as follows:
Part 1: Will consist of a few strong arguments for how strong the Byakugan is, stating some abilities some people may not have grasped but that are logically deduced from what we know the Byakugan can do.
Part 2: Is a Short and fairly non-conclusive synopsis of how I think a Byakugan user can fair against a Sharingan user.
I recommend re-reading every now and then as I update the thread on a weekly basis.
Part 1: Will consist of a few strong arguments for how strong the Byakugan is, stating some abilities some people may not have grasped but that are logically deduced from what we know the Byakugan can do.
Part 2: Is a Short and fairly non-conclusive synopsis of how I think a Byakugan user can fair against a Sharingan user.
I recommend re-reading every now and then as I update the thread on a weekly basis.
How I work
Ignore this part if you have better things to do with your day.
For those who dont know how I work, the way I come up with more elaborate and non-conclusive ideas is I take a well known manga fact, I build a less conclusive yet logically coherent idea from that, and then then continue to expand. This is called "Deductive Reasoning": An example of this is:
1) All men are mortal
2) Bobby is a man
3) Bobby is mortal
1) P = Q
2) Q = R
3) Therefore, R= P
For those who dont know how I work, the way I come up with more elaborate and non-conclusive ideas is I take a well known manga fact, I build a less conclusive yet logically coherent idea from that, and then then continue to expand. This is called "Deductive Reasoning": An example of this is:
1) All men are mortal
2) Bobby is a man
3) Bobby is mortal
1) P = Q
2) Q = R
3) Therefore, R= P
List of Abilities of Both Doujutsu
Byakugan
- X-Ray Vision
- Nearly 360 degree Field of Vision
- Skilled in Chakra Control
- Can see there enemies entire Chakra Network
- 1 Hit KO
Sharingan
- See Chakra
- Can predict and copy movements and jutsu
- Can cast Genjutsu by looking into a ninja's eyes
- When reaching MS/EMS you gain 2 unique abilities depending on your eyes
- Summon Susan'o
- X-Ray Vision
- Nearly 360 degree Field of Vision
- Skilled in Chakra Control
- Can see there enemies entire Chakra Network
- 1 Hit KO
Sharingan
- See Chakra
- Can predict and copy movements and jutsu
- Can cast Genjutsu by looking into a ninja's eyes
- When reaching MS/EMS you gain 2 unique abilities depending on your eyes
- Summon Susan'o
Byakugan Arguments
Ability to Predict Ninjutsu
This is fairly simple, before any ninja can cast any kind of jutsu they must mold/build up chakra for said technique. As shown below:
Not only must one mold the chakra but they must also control where to send this chakra within their body since different techniques require Chakra to be sent to different areas of the body, this is what is known as Chakra Control:
The Byakugan can see all of this happening, he see's how much Chakra you are molding and thus can determine the size and power of the jutsu you are about to cast. He can also see where you are sending the Chakra and predict what kind of jutsu it will be. Ex. If you send the chakra to your eyes then it could be an MS technique, if you send it to your hands then it could be a water dragon bullet or something of that sort, if you send it to your mouth then you could be about to spit out some water or dirt for a jutsu or perhaps cast a fireball, if your overall chakra drops by half or 1/10 then your probably just used a clone, etc... All of this is deduced by the Hyuga before you have even cast the jutsu.
A good example of this would be this, Firstly lets look at the scan where Kakashi states that the Sharingans ability to see the Chakra Network pales in comparison to the Byakugan.
But even with his sharingan not being able to see chakra as well as the Byakugan he was still able to see's Itachi molding the Chakra into his eyes in preparation to use Tsukuyomi:
With this the Byakugan user can Predict what Jutsu you are going to use before you have even used it. This allows the Byakugan user to act accordingly either preparing to counter or dodge the attack.
This plays an especially important role in allowing them to dodge quick jutsu's, where as other people have from the time the jutsu is cast to the time the jutsu reaches them to react, the Byakugan user has the added time from the point of the enemy building up chakra and controlling it, giving them a few extra seconds to react to a jutsu before it comes. So in a sense, they dont have wait to see it coming in order to react to it.
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Not only must one mold the chakra but they must also control where to send this chakra within their body since different techniques require Chakra to be sent to different areas of the body, this is what is known as Chakra Control:
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The Byakugan can see all of this happening, he see's how much Chakra you are molding and thus can determine the size and power of the jutsu you are about to cast. He can also see where you are sending the Chakra and predict what kind of jutsu it will be. Ex. If you send the chakra to your eyes then it could be an MS technique, if you send it to your hands then it could be a water dragon bullet or something of that sort, if you send it to your mouth then you could be about to spit out some water or dirt for a jutsu or perhaps cast a fireball, if your overall chakra drops by half or 1/10 then your probably just used a clone, etc... All of this is deduced by the Hyuga before you have even cast the jutsu.
A good example of this would be this, Firstly lets look at the scan where Kakashi states that the Sharingans ability to see the Chakra Network pales in comparison to the Byakugan.
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But even with his sharingan not being able to see chakra as well as the Byakugan he was still able to see's Itachi molding the Chakra into his eyes in preparation to use Tsukuyomi:
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With this the Byakugan user can Predict what Jutsu you are going to use before you have even used it. This allows the Byakugan user to act accordingly either preparing to counter or dodge the attack.
This plays an especially important role in allowing them to dodge quick jutsu's, where as other people have from the time the jutsu is cast to the time the jutsu reaches them to react, the Byakugan user has the added time from the point of the enemy building up chakra and controlling it, giving them a few extra seconds to react to a jutsu before it comes. So in a sense, they dont have wait to see it coming in order to react to it.
Immunity to Genjutsu
We already know that it is possible to break free of Genjutsu, to do this you must disrupt your chakra flow. This can be done by oneself with training but can also be done by a 3rd party outside of the genjutsu:
Now follow me closely on this one because this is where you use your brains:
Here we see Kakashi say that the Byakugan is one of the bloodline abilities passed down through the Hyuga. So what is the other?
The ability to control their chakra to a point that they expel it from any tenketsu point on their body. This translates to the hyuga possessing a manner of Chakra Control of the highest kind, which would also mean that they would have no trouble distrupting there own chakra flow and breaking themselves out of any genjutsu they may be trapped in. Thus is logically deduced from the following:
A) You can break out of a genjutsu by distrupting your chakra, which takes chakra control.
B) The Hyuga excel at Chakra Control to the point of being able to emit it from there Chakra points.
C) The Hyuga have the potential to free themselves from genjutsu, much like what Jiraiya was trying to teach Naruto to do.
X) With that the only question left is whether they can break out of the so called unbreakable Tsukuyomi. For that I provide evidences of the Tsukuyomi being broken out of.
Killer Bee escaping Tsukuyomi
*Note than when specifically using a genjutsu both eyes are open [
D) The Hyuga can break out of the any genjutsu.
Now to further build on this a Byakugan user can avoid being caught in by a Sharingan users genjutsu by closing their eyes. With X-Ray vision AO has shown that you can cover up your eye and merely look through whatever you are covering it with your Byakugans X-Ray vision. And thus you dont have to worry about being caught within their genjutsu while still being able to function normally.
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Now follow me closely on this one because this is where you use your brains:
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Here we see Kakashi say that the Byakugan is one of the bloodline abilities passed down through the Hyuga. So what is the other?
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The ability to control their chakra to a point that they expel it from any tenketsu point on their body. This translates to the hyuga possessing a manner of Chakra Control of the highest kind, which would also mean that they would have no trouble distrupting there own chakra flow and breaking themselves out of any genjutsu they may be trapped in. Thus is logically deduced from the following:
A) You can break out of a genjutsu by distrupting your chakra, which takes chakra control.
B) The Hyuga excel at Chakra Control to the point of being able to emit it from there Chakra points.
C) The Hyuga have the potential to free themselves from genjutsu, much like what Jiraiya was trying to teach Naruto to do.
X) With that the only question left is whether they can break out of the so called unbreakable Tsukuyomi. For that I provide evidences of the Tsukuyomi being broken out of.
Killer Bee escaping Tsukuyomi
*Note than when specifically using a genjutsu both eyes are open [
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] while when using Tsukuyomi one eye is closed, on top of that sasuke grabs his right eye and pants, which is a dead give away of Tsukuyomi's use.*
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D) The Hyuga can break out of the any genjutsu.
Now to further build on this a Byakugan user can avoid being caught in by a Sharingan users genjutsu by closing their eyes. With X-Ray vision AO has shown that you can cover up your eye and merely look through whatever you are covering it with your Byakugans X-Ray vision. And thus you dont have to worry about being caught within their genjutsu while still being able to function normally.
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Superiority in Taijutsu
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With the Gentle Fist fighting style the hyugas possess the strongest Taijutsu:
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Not to mention that due to the fact that they do not practice in Genjutsu or Ninjutsu but only practice Taijutsu, much like Rock Lee or Gai, it stands to reason that there Taijutsu would be atleast above average.
A) People who specialize in only Taijutsu are great at it.
B) Rock Lee and Gai specialize in only Taijutsu.
C) Rock Lee and Gai are great at Taijutsu
B) Hyuga specialize in only Taijutsu
C) Hyuga are great at Taijutsu
Not to mention that with 1 well placed strike the Hyuga can completely incapacitate an opponent keeping them from moving at all, this is demonstrated when Hizashi disabled his brother Haishi:
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And dont forget it can be used from a distance as well!
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And dont forget the immense power it has:
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It pushed back on of the Juubi's massive arms by itself
They Possess "True Speed"
This is said in regards to my thread on what
The idea's within that thread are deduced as follows:
Shunshin is a widely used fairly basic technique that any ninja above gennin level uses, it allows them to move at extremely high speeds for a short period of time. A few ninja are well known for using this technique such as A, the 3rd Raikage and Shisui. It is my observation that they are not the only ones to do this but rather we see ninja do this all the time to cover large areas of ground within a short period of time, people just often confuse this with said ninjas base speed or just dont question how they were able to cover that much ground without anyone noticing.
With that premise established we move on to the deduction
A) Although speed of Shunshin varies depending on said ninjas speed and skill with it it is my belief that one can only be so fast, when moving at those speeds ones actual speed with shunshin begins to matter less and ones reflexes and ability to react to what your opponent is going to do begins to matter more, thus we see that Reflex > Speed.
B) With there Byakugans ability to disect jutsu before they are cast the Byakugan user has a certain predictive capability.
C) Said predictive capability acts as a makeshift reflex.
D) Byakugans reflexive ability is on the level, theoritically ofcourse, higher than even the Raikage. As it was said that with the Lighting Armor on the Raikage was unbeatable because his synapses fire at the speed of light, which would mean that as soon as he saw your attack he could react instantly, this paired with the speed of his shunshin made him untouchable. But the Byakugan user surpasses him as they can see what your doing and react Before you even attack. Perhaps they may be slower speed wise but with shunshin and a head start a well trained Byakugan user can replicate this untouchability.
Note that this is only for Ninjutsu, as far as Taijutsu goes there predictive ability falls off, but they do possess the strongest Taijutsu.
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is. I highly HIGHLY recommend you read it if you want to further understand the points I am making.The idea's within that thread are deduced as follows:
Shunshin is a widely used fairly basic technique that any ninja above gennin level uses, it allows them to move at extremely high speeds for a short period of time. A few ninja are well known for using this technique such as A, the 3rd Raikage and Shisui. It is my observation that they are not the only ones to do this but rather we see ninja do this all the time to cover large areas of ground within a short period of time, people just often confuse this with said ninjas base speed or just dont question how they were able to cover that much ground without anyone noticing.
With that premise established we move on to the deduction
A) Although speed of Shunshin varies depending on said ninjas speed and skill with it it is my belief that one can only be so fast, when moving at those speeds ones actual speed with shunshin begins to matter less and ones reflexes and ability to react to what your opponent is going to do begins to matter more, thus we see that Reflex > Speed.
B) With there Byakugans ability to disect jutsu before they are cast the Byakugan user has a certain predictive capability.
C) Said predictive capability acts as a makeshift reflex.
D) Byakugans reflexive ability is on the level, theoritically ofcourse, higher than even the Raikage. As it was said that with the Lighting Armor on the Raikage was unbeatable because his synapses fire at the speed of light, which would mean that as soon as he saw your attack he could react instantly, this paired with the speed of his shunshin made him untouchable. But the Byakugan user surpasses him as they can see what your doing and react Before you even attack. Perhaps they may be slower speed wise but with shunshin and a head start a well trained Byakugan user can replicate this untouchability.
Note that this is only for Ninjutsu, as far as Taijutsu goes there predictive ability falls off, but they do possess the strongest Taijutsu.
Vision that borders on the Omni-Potent
With the Byakugan the user can see within a 360 degree radius around himself.
This distance has been shown to be able to grow at a atleast 800 meters:
Now this means that when the Byakugan is activated Neji can see everything and anything within an 800 meter radius around him.
No sneak attacks, no surprise attacks, no hidden traps, nothing.
Not even to mention that tricks like clones wont work either, he can tell if you are a water or earth clone merely by seeing how your chakra has been split.
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This distance has been shown to be able to grow at a atleast 800 meters:
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Now this means that when the Byakugan is activated Neji can see everything and anything within an 800 meter radius around him.
No sneak attacks, no surprise attacks, no hidden traps, nothing.
Not even to mention that tricks like clones wont work either, he can tell if you are a water or earth clone merely by seeing how your chakra has been split.
There is no plausible blind spot
In this part I just want to explain that there is no real plausible blind spot and that one would be hard pressed to make use of the blind spot even if you knew it was there.
Even with that Kidomaru states that simply by moving slightly he can shift the position of the blind spot, thus making it that much harder to attack from.
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Even with that Kidomaru states that simply by moving slightly he can shift the position of the blind spot, thus making it that much harder to attack from.
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Correcting the Lore
Here I just want to correct a few things and inform people a little bit about what we call the Byakuga:
1) Kakashi claimed the Uchiha came from the Hyuga, which would imply that the Sage of was a Hyuga. [
2) Kakashi also claimed the Rinnegan was a mutation, since we have reason to believe the Sage was a Hyuga based on the above then it could likely be a mutation of the Byakugan. [
3) Kakashi states that when it comes to seeing chakra the Byakugan is better. [
4) Kakashi states that the Hyuga are the oldest and the greatest of the leaf. [
5) Haishi says the Hyuga are the strongest of the leaf. [
It can only happen so many times before you stop calling it a arbitrary mistake and start calling it an uncanny coincidence.
1) Kakashi claimed the Uchiha came from the Hyuga, which would imply that the Sage of was a Hyuga. [
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]2) Kakashi also claimed the Rinnegan was a mutation, since we have reason to believe the Sage was a Hyuga based on the above then it could likely be a mutation of the Byakugan. [
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]3) Kakashi states that when it comes to seeing chakra the Byakugan is better. [
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]4) Kakashi states that the Hyuga are the oldest and the greatest of the leaf. [
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]5) Haishi says the Hyuga are the strongest of the leaf. [
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]It can only happen so many times before you stop calling it a arbitrary mistake and start calling it an uncanny coincidence.
Sharingan Clarifications
Who do we regard as the standard?
We have the strongest Uchiha in history, an Uchiha that has half his body made of Senju DNA and can use Mokuton, An Uchiha genius that entered the ANBU when he was 6, who may I add killed ALL the other Uchiha when he was a teenager... and another Uchiha Genius that has been fueled by hatred his entire life forcing him to seek out power... Are these the people we think of when we want to set the standard of the Uchiha? How about those 3 Uchiha from the Police that Itachi Solo'd? Or better yet the ENTIRE CLAN that was also solo'd by Itachi...
When we compare the Byakugan to the Sharingan I think we shouldn't turn this into a debate of who in the manga has proven to be stronger, because Madara and Sasuke are pretty much main villians. All I am saying is that Neji is the strongest Hyuga we have seen so far and even then we have seen very little from him, the ninja war was a great chance to showcase his skills but he dead saving Naruto's life... which has to count for something...
As I go on I want you to keep that in mind, we have not seen the true potential of the Hyuga, but we HAVE seen the greatest potential of the Uchiha.
When we compare the Byakugan to the Sharingan I think we shouldn't turn this into a debate of who in the manga has proven to be stronger, because Madara and Sasuke are pretty much main villians. All I am saying is that Neji is the strongest Hyuga we have seen so far and even then we have seen very little from him, the ninja war was a great chance to showcase his skills but he dead saving Naruto's life... which has to count for something...
As I go on I want you to keep that in mind, we have not seen the true potential of the Hyuga, but we HAVE seen the greatest potential of the Uchiha.
Beating the Sharingan
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It has been shown several times that the Sharingan can be beaten, although it may allow you to see an attack coming that does not mean you can dodge it indefinitely. For instance, if you had eyes that could see a bullet coming, does that now mean you can dodge bullets? Lets see this in more detail though in what I like to refer to as a compilation of "Didnt see that coming" moments.
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The Sharingan lets you see everything, but if your reaction time is still human then it is moot. And thus we see that Taijutsu, being too fast for the Uchiha to react, is the true weakness of the Sharingan. And the Hyuga specialize in Taijutsu.
Countering MS/EMS Abilities
As far as abilities like Amaterasu and Kamui I wont go individually and explain how to beat each one. But what I will say on this is that MS Abilities use up ALOT of chakra and are molded within the eyes. Thus the Hyuga will see this technique coming a mile away, but also considering how much chakra using MS abilities takes up I am hard pressed to say that the Uchiha could use it more than 3-4 times before completely draining himself, but this large chakra consumption will also warn the Hyuga who will ofcourse be on the defensive and ready to escape whatever may be coming his way.
It will take some quick thinking to react accordingly and I will admit it may be difficult at times, but it is possible. And also, how many Uchiha have MS/EMS's? Not alot, ill plead the 5th on this until we see some Hyuga development.
It will take some quick thinking to react accordingly and I will admit it may be difficult at times, but it is possible. And also, how many Uchiha have MS/EMS's? Not alot, ill plead the 5th on this until we see some Hyuga development.
Countering the Susan'o
This is actually something easily done by a Hyuga, look at this scan:
Its long I know but what it is meant to show is that Neji and other Hyuga can channel their chakra through things "created by chakra", much like Kidomaru's chakra strings and arrows; much like an Uchiha's Susan'o. And the lethality of it is also shown where Kidomaru's states that a number of his organs were damaged and that he could barely move, and even that statement was an understatement as he couldnt do anything to keep himself from falling and getting hit by neji mid-air.
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Its long I know but what it is meant to show is that Neji and other Hyuga can channel their chakra through things "created by chakra", much like Kidomaru's chakra strings and arrows; much like an Uchiha's Susan'o. And the lethality of it is also shown where Kidomaru's states that a number of his organs were damaged and that he could barely move, and even that statement was an understatement as he couldnt do anything to keep himself from falling and getting hit by neji mid-air.
Conclusion
I am not trying to convince everyone that the Byakugan is better than the Sharingan, or even that the Hyuga are better than the Uchiha, although one could make a good argument for said things. I am merely trying to showcase the raw potential that the Byakugan has and its many implication.
Kishi's said that after that in the next arc we are going to see some development for the Hyuga, I am merely saying he has alot to work with.
Kishi's said that after that in the next arc we are going to see some development for the Hyuga, I am merely saying he has alot to work with.
Enjoy the Read!
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