Madara is Stronger than Hashirama

[Lightbringer]

I was targeting that more so at your "EMS Is not an external" - bit.

I guess I meant doujutsu really

but nonetheless, the point is susanoo is not an EMS technique if you want to argue that.


still even with the EMS, the Uchiha have to go through stages to awaken their power whereas Hashirama doesn't.....he's born with his perfect body from the get-go

the EMS doesn't grant the user extra chakra unlike sage mode granting natural energy or bijuu chakra from KMC

which is why it is still considered base

 

[Humming]

I guess I meant doujutsu really

but nonetheless, the point is susanoo is not an EMS technique if you want to argue that.


still even with the EMS, the Uchiha have to go through stages to awaken their power whereas Hashirama doesn't.....he's born with his perfect body from the get-go

the EMS doesn't grant the user extra chakra unlike sage mode granting natural energy or bijuu chakra from KMC

which is why it is still considered base

Eh, I wasn't really targeting the Susano'o. Although, be it "Perfect Susano'o" I believe Madara's is the only one to be referenced in such a manner. That's about the only arguing you can really do with it, I would imagine.

 

[Lightbringer]

Eh, I wasn't really targeting the Susano'o. Although, be it "Perfect Susano'o" I believe Madara's is the only one to be referenced in such a manner. That's about the only arguing you can really do with it, I would imagine.

I'm not really sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me here

 

[kunde]

I guess I meant doujutsu really

but nonetheless, the point is susanoo is not an EMS technique if you want to argue that.


still even with the EMS, the Uchiha have to go through stages to awaken their power whereas Hashirama doesn't.....he's born with his perfect body from the get-go

the EMS doesn't grant the user extra chakra unlike sage mode granting natural energy or bijuu chakra from KMC

which is why it is still considered base

that wasn't the first time madara faced hashi . .he must have faced him before with his EMS. .he lost to him back then. .it means even with just PS he was clearly outmatched. .in the last fight madara came back with kyuubi to fight and made kyuubi wear susano'o armor. .had he not used kyuubi hashi would never hav gone into SM . .

thats why hashi is >madara

 

[Humming]

I'm not really sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me here

Neither, nor. However, I believe if we're taking away Hashirama's Sage Mode, for the sake of "Base Form." I believe it fair to discount the Sharingan? I mean..Uchiha aren't born with the ability to freely activate it, like the Hyuga with the Byakugan. So "Base Form" would, by technical consideration, be an Uchiha not using their Sharingan.

Just a thought, agreeable or disagreeable on how you consider the term "Base Form."

 

[Lightbringer]

that wasn't the first time madara faced hashi . .he must have faced him before with his EMS. .he lost to him back then. .it means even with just PS he was clearly outmatched. .in the last fight madara came back with kyuubi to fight and made kyuubi wear susano'o armor. .had he not used kyuubi hashi would never hav gone into SM . .

The only time EMS Madara lost to Hashirama was in their final battle

when Madara got the EMS, he faced an entire senju squad which included Hashirama and Tobirama and fought for 24 hours straight

You must be registered for see images

don't get me wrong, I'm not agreeing to Madara being stronger than Hashirama

but it's not as black and what as people put it either.


I do however believe that Rinnegan Madara>Hashirama

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Omg, who cares? both Uchiha and Senju powers come from the Jūbi (Uchiha/Jūbi's Yin, Senju/Jūbi's Yang) so ultimately this comparison of base Madara and base Hashirama is pointless.

 

[Humming]

Omg, who cares? both Uchiha and Senju powers come from the Jūbi (Uchiha/Jūbi's Yin, Senju/Jūbi's Yang) so ultimately this comparison of base Madara and base Hashirama is pointless.

..Aren't you famous for trolling?

 

[NarutoKage2]

Actually, you'd be wrong. MS, would be a natural ability for Madara; but the only way he was able to get EMS, was through the taking of Izuna's eyes, and implanting them into his own. Technically, that's an external addition..

Terrible counter. Itachi canonically stated that the ems prevents the side effect of blindness from overusing the mangekyuo, which is an internal power. Ems has not been shown to grant entirely new techs previously dormant.

@everyone else: kekkei genkais are still base form. Not including them is like discluding hashiramas mokuton as its his kkg.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

..Aren't you famous for trolling?

But it's true. The Uchiha and Senju Ancestors were creations of Rikūdo from Banbutsu Sōzō much like the Bijūs, the Elder is the Jūbi's Yin while the Younger is the Jūbi's Yang

 

[Humming]

Terrible counter. Itachi canonically stated that the ems prevents the side effect of blindness from overusing the mangekyuo, which is an internal power. Ems has not been shown to grant entirely new techs previously dormant.

@everyone else: kekkei genkais are still base form. Not including them is like discluding hashiramas mokuton as its his kkg.

I simply stated it could be considered an external attribute, and it's not wise to use as reference to Madara's "base form". I stated this because the user in which I replied to labeled it as an internal thing..I would highly appreciate if you learned to read, and think, process the information, and then reply.

 

[NarutoKage2]

But it's true. The Uchiha and Senju Ancestors were creations of Rikūdo from Banbutsu Sōzō much like the Bijūs, the Elder is the Jūbi's Yin while the Younger is the Jūbi's Yang

Oh look, its pervy kakashi, the douche who runs his mouth with bs as if it were fact even tho its never been stated in the manga.

 

[kunde]

The only time EMS Madara lost to Hashirama was in their final battle

when Madara got the EMS, he faced an entire senju squad which included Hashirama and Tobirama and fought for 24 hours straight

You must be registered for see images

don't get me wrong, I'm not agreeing to Madara being stronger than Hashirama

but it's not as black and what as people put it either.


I do however believe that Rinnegan Madara>Hashirama

my bad..i was wrong. .btw thank you

 

[Lightbringer]

Neither, nor. However, I believe if we're taking away Hashirama's Sage Mode, for the sake of "Base Form." I believe it fair to discount the Sharingan? I mean..Uchiha aren't born with the ability to freely activate it, like the Hyuga with the Byakugan. So "Base Form" would, by technical consideration, be an Uchiha not using their Sharingan.

Just a thought, agreeable or disagreeable on how you consider the term "Base Form."

but that wouldn't be fair

Hashirama has a kekkai genkai, something he was born with also(mokuton)

 

[Lightbringer]

Oh look, its pervy kakashi, the douche who runs his mouth with bs as if it were fact even tho its never been stated in the manga.

hey hey, let's settle down

there's no need for hostility

there's a difference between stating fact and creating theories

 

[NarutoKage2]

I simply stated it could be considered an external attribute, and it's not wise to use as reference to Madara's "base form". I stated this because the user in which I replied to labeled it as an internal thing..I would highly appreciate if you learned to read, and think, process the information, and then reply.

Which 'attribute' of the ems makes it an external factor? Every ' attribute' of the ems is the same as the mangekyuo, its the same tech that lasts longer. Processing information? Indeed.

 

[Humming]

but that wouldn't be fair

Hashirama has a kekkai genkai, something he was born with also(mokuton)

I wasn't saying it just to target Madara's kekki Genkai. It's stated that the Sharingan isn't evident in all Uchiha, only in some, and that there are certain conditions to be met for an Uchiha to unlock the Sharingan. I only meant to suggest considering whether or not that would be able to be considered as external to the base form.

 

[RikudouMadara]

and madara had 9 tails

Imho The Fox shouldn't matter it's just a weapon Madara had similar to a sword or gun. An extension of himself. Also I thought the Uchiha were known for their high chakra? Imho Madara won at vote also.:yayy:

 

[Humming]

Which 'attribute' of the ems makes it an external factor? Every ' attribute' of the ems is the same as the mangekyuo, its the same tech that lasts longer. Processing information? Indeed.

"This process, which took at least several days for a complete recovery as seen in Sasuke's case,[12][13] not only permanently restores the recipient's eyesight, but also bolsters their own ocular power with that of the donor's."

The Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, as displayed by Sasuke would add the previous owner's own ocular powers to that of the recipient. That, added to the fact it permanently restores the user's eyesight, is something to consider. I also believe that, Madara was going blind, so, without his "EMS", he would have been blind in his base form, or at least going blind.

 

[Lightbringer]

I wasn't saying it just to target Madara's kekki Genkai. It's stated that the Sharingan isn't evident in all Uchiha, only in some, and that there are certain conditions to be met for an Uchiha to unlock the Sharingan. I only meant to suggest considering whether or not that would be able to be considered as external to the base form.

Every Uchiha has the potential for it to awaken. It's like maturing and waiting for being able to grow chest hair; a lot of men in their maturity can't grow chest hair until late in their life and many might die before they get the chance to.

awakening the sharingan is like a lottery, it'll happen eventually.....but that doesn't mean you'll be alive when it does

Itachi said he awakened all his abilites at the same time; Sasuke awoke the susanoo sometime after gaining amaterasu.

It just shows that they have different waiting periods.