How can Hashirama beat Naruto?

[BlackFlame44]

Where do you see Shuriken in that scan?

rAsenshuriken I mean

 

[KidGamer65]

rAsenshuriken I mean

This is what happened. They all charged at the Juubi together and their chakra cloaks combined to make one big phoenix, and its wings and beak cut through the Juubi's tails.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Deidara wasn't nearly as much PNJ as naruto. Naruto literally had the fight set up.

-There are 6 pain but they all fight 1 at a time. BS.
-Deva (strongest) incapacitated from start so can't help other paths at all.
-Asura (long range fighter) decides to leave the entire group and rush tsunade even though there's 5 frogs and an SM user behind her? Yea ok...
-Human path(can easily remove naruto's soul to drop him into king of hell) decides to suicide to save the useless Animal path. Wtf did animal path do but get shat on?
- Preta path Absorbs ninjutsu but decides to be the one to engage naruto in taijutsu instead of say, human path, animal path, or any of the other useless ones? LoL
- Animal path never summoned chameleon to use it as a camoflauge, or even use the bird to help his team get some flight so they're out of range. Instead, animal path decides to send animals 1 on 1 against naruto. like wut?
- Deva path incapacitates naruto but sits his ass down to talk, then provokes him by killing a comrade infront his eyes.
- Deva blew away entire konoha but Kyuubi tanks ST? For that matter, naruto's clones tank ST? Dafuq?
- Naraka path revives preta path and doesn't try to revive any of the paths too? Uhm... wut? So, now, 6 paths of pain no longer needs 6 paths?
- Naruto coincidentally arrives to konoha at the exact moment pain decides to completely wreck his chakra and all his paths strength with a konoha wiping CST?

And the best part
-Naruto had full knowledge of pain from the start. He had a slug on his shoulder feeding him all his enemies weaknesses. And he still needed a plot crutch.


All 6 paths of pain and nagato literally didn't fight how they should have,, nor did they even really fight IC. Kishi just wanted an exciting fight with pain that naruto could win, that's why he made naruto fight like 1/6(deva path) of like 1/2( nagato himself has his own abilities that paths can't use + his chakra got shot hard) of nagato's full power. And EVEN then, SM naruto AND 6 tail kyuubi both got smacked about by deva path alone. What would've happened if the other paths were there?

What would happen if even preta was there? As soon as naruto would have gone kyuubi he would have his chakra sucked.
What would happen if animal was there? Kyuubi wouldn't even make it past the dog and pain would hide on an invisible chameleon.
What would happen if asura was there? Missles, missles, missles, that'd blast kyuubi all around. The missles were strong enough to blow konoha up quite a bit.
What would happen if Human path(most important one) was there? As soon as naruto broke out of that CT, pain would simply use a bt on him and get human to suck his soul out. Then, they'd bring him back to akatsuki base and revive him with king of hell. Easy.
but no. Pain decides to fight completely out of character and then kill himself. BS.

---

Now, for retrospect, this is the amount of bs in sasuke's fight.

-He has lightning nature (a bit odd, ok), and this allows him to beat deid's clay. Well, deid is from rock village so his nature was most likely earth anyway, so that wasn't that much of a stretch.
- Sasuke ugh... well that was it really. Only the lightning bit. At least kishi made deid fight seriously and use his best jutsu that actually kill people. You could say he didn't use C3 but sasuke was already neutralizing his bombs and even brought him down. deid fought completely IC even pulling out his genjutsu immunity but sasuke won. At least he didn't have full intel, or any intel for that matter on deid. Infact, deid actually the one using plot in that fight with all that weird ass nanobot shit, help from tobi to lay mines and a convinient immunity to sharingan genjutsu.

All sasuke had was a convinient nature advantage. Naruto literally has plot. Like nothing that happened in his fight would make you think it was a fight he was even supposed to lose... Pain didn't even seem to want to ****ing win...

IMO, the fight with the second most PNJ is Kakuzu's fight.

Whenever Naruto has an impressive win it's PNJ. Sounds legit.

Naruto didn't get the info on Pain before the fight. Katsuyu told him as he fought, requiring quick decisions.

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Animal path is more useful in a fight then human path, not the other way around. That's why it committed suicide. Camafloge would be useless since Naruto doesn't need to see his opponent in sage mode. Kishi probably just didn't want to waste panel time for Pain to discover this by error.

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Naruto's info wasn't absolute. He couldn't tell which one had what ability.

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It's also plot that Pain killed Pa and took advantage of Naruto trying to save him to get him pinned in the first place.

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Naruto felt that catching a dead frog summon was more important than keeping both hands free to defend himself with things like shadow clones. Sounds legit.


Let me clarify why Sasuke's fight had large scales of PNJ. Sasuke not only had THE chakra nature needed to counter Deidera (by the way, explosive style could have been a unique jutsu without any nature, it didn't have to be earth. that was plot) he also had THE specific ninjutsu to counter C4 (chidori stream neutralizing the nano bombs).
He was "out of chakra" but had enough to summon Manda and use him as a shield with genjutsu?!

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Like it or not, Sasuke had as much, if not more PNJ than Naruto's. On Naruto's side. PNJ worked both for, and against him.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Where do you see Shuriken in that scan?

Where do you see detail in the human sized people, much less a ransenshuriken?

 

[blackstar9]

hashirama suppress 9 tail chakra . most of naruto strength come from kurama . gg

 

[MickNerks]

He can suppress the Kyuubi chakra completely... Base Hashirama > Naruto

SM Hashirama >>>>>>>>> Naruto

Doesn't matter if Naruto gets the other Half, Naruto still gets stomped.

Actually this is wrong. Hashirama cant completely supress kurama, and this was stated in the Databook.

And IMO naruto can defeat Hashirama.

As far as we know SM Hashirama = SM Naruto.

And Base Hashirama without sage mode cant beat Naruto.​

 

[Lightning Release]

People overrate Hashi. Naruto can beat the shit out of EMS Madara. There's only a FEW techs that Hashi have that would give an all-out Naruto trouble.

And I really doubt Hashi can suppress BM Naruto (seeing as to Madara's wood dragon couldn't)

Stop overrating Hashi and underrating Naruto.

 

[MickNerks]

People overrate Hashi. Naruto can beat the shit out of EMS Madara. There's only a FEW techs that Hashi have that would give an all-out Naruto trouble.

And I really doubt Hashi can suppress BM Naruto (seeing as to Madara's wood dragon couldn't)

Stop overrating Hashi and underrating Naruto.

There is alot of overrating of hashirama on this base​

 

[GrayParadise]

A rasenshuriken cut through several giant rock pieces with ease in the Pain fight, Rasenshuriken was also used to cut through the Juubi's tail's, being to tip of the attack so it did the piercing.

But they're too small to even cut off a single hand... well, maybe 10 or 20 at most. His FRS aimed at the Juubi was pathetically tiny, in relation to both the Juubi and even more tiny in comparison to the 1K summoning. It probably wouldn't even be visible.

And on that note, your information isn't accurate. You lead to believe that his FRS alone sliced the Tails, when in fact it didn't. It only cut the Tails with the full joint effort of the Shinobi alliance behind him.

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By itself, FRS would have had zero effect, and that was his most powerful FRS tech, which doesn't do much justice to it harming 1K in any case.

He can blitz away from it. Flower world isn't a one shot, Onoki stayed awake through sheer will power which Naruto doesn't lack. Hashirama's seen Kurama's power but that isn't the same as Naruto+kurama's power.

Hashirama's got to get around into four spots to make the barrier Naruto's a lot faster than him. Doesn't the barrier need 4 different people? Also if he's in it he can just fire off a tbb and destroy everything in it, he'll survive the explosion.

And Hashirama is a genius, he's a far better strategist than Naruto. It'd be silly for him to summon Flower World and then move his clones, he'd already have the clones there and ready, so the moment Flower World is made, those barriers go right up, and boom trapped. And no, it doesn't need 4 people, it needs 4 Kage level shinobi, which he can produce through the method of clones. and in scenario 1 he uses a TBB, won't do any good. TBB is a destructive technique, it has no type of particle level effect. This is what made Oonoki's attack such a counter for Flower World, it tears physical matter as well as smaller, atom sized particles, being a dust technique it is itself. A TBB will just make the situation worse if anything, it'll cause all the Flowers and Trees to shake and explode and shake rapidly, producing more and more pollen.

Scenario 2- He uses a TBB and the clones move in closer to shrink the barrier. We know what happens next, he either kills himself from such a contain explosion, or does severe damage.

Scenario 3- And let's say he does fire a TBB, then it's genjutsu while inside the barrier. Both him and Kurama can get trapped in Bringer of Darkness, nobody is immune to it. Naruto has no response or defense to flower world. Then, it all comes down to Hashirama's mercy.

Rasenshuriken's strength is slicing power which is a lot more effective than a raw explosion, then there's odama rasenshuriken that's a lot larger in size than a regular tbb.

Responded earlier, it's too tiny and will have zero-no effect.
And please show me some scans where his Rasenshuriken is the size of a TBB.

With his speed I don't think many things are hard for him to avoid, being small he could just get onto a hand and run up its body towards Hashirama.

And along with this, I now realize why he can't blitz his way out of Flower World.

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Here's the only demonstration of Flower World we've seen so far, which is probably only a medium sized one.
It is literally. Impossible for anybody to run out of this. I mean, look at that terrain... it's soo rigid and uneven he'd be tripping all over the place. And trying to jump? Forget about it, not gonna work on a arena of that scale, it's too big and would take too long to soar through the sky to the safety zone. He'd be passed out before he could even hit the ground.

And he can't escape from 1K summoning for a pretty common sense reason- the vibrations. The steps that thing makes is massive, far, far, far beyond any Tailed Beast, and will rock the place like nobody's business. So he can try to run away... but the vibrations from the ground will make it impossible. There's no getting around that.

 

[Midday]

But they're too small to even cut off a single hand... well, maybe 10 or 20 at most. His FRS aimed at the Juubi was pathetically tiny, in relation to both the Juubi and even more tiny in comparison to the 1K summoning. It probably wouldn't even be visible.

They're large enough to slice through several pieces of the CT which size is close to mountains. Odama rasenshuriken is a few times larger than the mokuton hand used to pick up the 9 tails, based on it being 3 times the size of a boss summon.

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And on that note, your information isn't accurate. You lead to believe that his FRS alone sliced the Tails, when in fact it didn't. It only cut the Tails with the full joint effort of the Shinobi alliance behind him.

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By itself, FRS would have had zero effect, and that was his most powerful FRS tech, which doesn't do much justice to it harming 1K in any case.

The Rasenshuriken was the tip of the attack which cut through the Juubi's tail, the bird looking thing pushed it through. It's like a knife. Also whose to say he can't pull of that bird looking thing with clones instead of fodder? Btw that wasn't his most powerful frs.

And Hashirama is a genius, he's a far better strategist than Naruto. It'd be silly for him to summon Flower World and then move his clones, he'd already have the clones there and ready, so the moment Flower World is made, those barriers go right up, and boom trapped. And no, it doesn't need 4 people, it needs 4 Kage level shinobi, which he can produce through the method of clones. and in scenario 1 he uses a TBB, won't do any good. TBB is a destructive technique, it has no type of particle level effect. This is what made Oonoki's attack such a counter for Flower World, it tears physical matter as well as smaller, atom sized particles, being a dust technique it is itself. A TBB will just make the situation worse if anything, it'll cause all the Flowers and Trees to shake and explode and shake rapidly, producing more and more pollen.

Since when is Hashirama a genius and a far better strategist than Naruto, that's your opinion. That stratergy is all under the assumption Naruto stands there while Hashirama circles around him and sets up a barrier. If Hashirama sets up some clones Naruto can do the same thing and attack those clones. Tbb's more than enough to destroy FTW all it is is wood and a tbb can pretty much reduced a mountain to dust. It doesn't need to be dust release to destroy that technique.

Scenario 2- He uses a TBB and the clones move in closer to shrink the barrier. We know what happens next, he either kills himself from such a contain explosion, or does severe damage.

He can tank his own tbb, that's not an issue.

Scenario 3- And let's say he does fire a TBB, then it's genjutsu while inside the barrier. Both him and Kurama can get trapped in Bringer of Darkness, nobody is immune to it. Naruto has no response or defense to flower world. Then, it all comes down to Hashirama's mercy.

Genjutsu is one of the last things Naruto has to worry about, go back to the chapter where Bee explains why genjutsu isn't a problem for perfect jinchuuriki's. Bringer of Darkness isn't even that good, Hiruzen broke out of it easily and sealed up the two Hokage's. I've given you counters to Ftw, escape it's range with speed, sheer will power, destroy it or sit in the kurama avatar away from the pollen. It's not an unstoppable technique.

Responded earlier, it's too tiny and will have zero-no effect.
And please show me some scans where his Rasenshuriken is the size of a TBB.

Odama rasenshuriken, larger than a boss summon. A tbb is the size of Kurama's mouth, so it's a lot larger considering boss summons and bijuu are close in size.

And along with this, I now realize why he can't blitz his way out of Flower World.

Spoiler

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Here's the only demonstration of Flower World we've seen so far, which is probably only a medium sized one.
It is literally. Impossible for anybody to run out of this. I mean, look at that terrain... it's soo rigid and uneven he'd be tripping all over the place. And trying to jump? Forget about it, not gonna work on a arena of that scale, it's too big and would take too long to soar through the sky to the safety zone. He'd be passed out before he could even hit the ground.

Or he can do

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when the attack comes at him. He can out run mokuton, he doesn't need to wait around then run on it.

And he can't escape from 1K summoning for a pretty common sense reason- the vibrations. The steps that thing makes is massive, far, far, far beyond any Tailed Beast, and will rock the place like nobody's business. So he can try to run away... but the vibrations from the ground will make it impossible. There's no getting around that.

Vibrations? You're really clutching at straws now, the Juubi's larger than that technique and nobody's having issues of vibrations.

 

[Bronze]

We've seen Hashirama's feats. He's skies above BM Naruto. Don't believe me? Read the manga.

When hashirama how he can deal with 6 bijou then we can talk.

 

[Bronze]

Why is thread still exist?

Naruto wins. It's so simple.

1000 KCM clones, hashirama focuses on fighting them, then naruto uses his speed and takes him down. End of thread.

 

[MickNerks]

And on that note, your information isn't accurate. You lead to believe that his FRS alone sliced the Tails, when in fact it didn't. It only cut the Tails with the full joint effort of the Shinobi alliance behind him.

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By itself, FRS would have had zero effect, and that was his most powerful FRS tech, which doesn't do much justice to it harming 1K in any case.

Naruto was the only one who used an attack. The rest of the SA followed behind him, as he took the lead. It was only his FRS that was used against the juubi. As that was the only technique shown when the alliance went to pursue madara and obito.

I feel as though you are simply assuming the entire alliance attacked the tail instead of naruto alone (even though naruto was the only one shown with a active jutsu) becuase you dont want to believe that Bijuu Mode Naruto could have the power to slice the juubi's tail by himself, when in fact the only person shown in the manga to take action against the juubi's tail was naruto.

And Hashirama is a genius, he's a far better strategist than Naruto. It'd be silly for him to summon Flower World and then move his clones, he'd already have the clones there and ready, so the moment Flower World is made, those barriers go right up, and boom trapped. And no, it doesn't need 4 people, it needs 4 Kage level shinobi, which he can produce through the method of clones. and in scenario 1 he uses a TBB, won't do any good. TBB is a destructive technique, it has no type of particle level effect. This is what made Oonoki's attack such a counter for Flower World, it tears physical matter as well as smaller, atom sized particles, being a dust technique it is itself. A TBB will just make the situation worse if anything, it'll cause all the Flowers and Trees to shake and explode and shake rapidly, producing more and more pollen.

Scenario 2- He uses a TBB and the clones move in closer to shrink the barrier. We know what happens next, he either kills himself from such a contain explosion, or does severe damage.

Scenario 3- And let's say he does fire a TBB, then it's genjutsu while inside the barrier. Both him and Kurama can get trapped in Bringer of Darkness, nobody is immune to it. Naruto has no response or defense to flower world. Then, it all comes down to Hashirama's mercy.

Its Intresting that you call Hashirama a genius, becuase out of Tobirama, Hiruzen, and Minato, Hashirama is the only one that doesnt have any credit to being a genius. Hashirama has never displayed any Genius feats that would allow anyone to credit him a genius, so im curious to know where you got the idea that he is a Genius. Also, what makes him a better strategist than naruto? You have only seen him in one battle, and you automatically assune he is a better strategist that naruto. I dont see the logic in your statement regarding is genius and strategic abilities.



You say that hashirama will create clones to trap naruto, yet you must have forgotten that naruto can creat clones as well that are faster than Hashirama's clone and can sense there where abouts very easily. The could stop hashirama's clones from creating the barrier.

Also, If naruto launches a TBB at the Flowering Tree, the explosion would destroy the tree and the pollen, and the heat from the explosion would burn the pollen and tree to make it ineffective. The TBB would not simply make the trees shake, it would obliterate them to nothing.

Responded earlier, it's too tiny and will have zero-no effect.
And please show me some scans where his Rasenshuriken is the size of a TBB.

This is the size of a TBB

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[GrayParadise]

They're large enough to slice through several pieces of the CT which size is close to mountains. Odama rasenshuriken is a few times larger than the mokuton hand used to pick up the 9 tails, based on it being 3 times the size of a boss summon.

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Um... that wasn't CT... that was a piece of a rock. CT fell apart when Kurama was resealed.

The Rasenshuriken was the tip of the attack which cut through the Juubi's tail, the bird looking thing pushed it through. It's like a knife. Also whose to say he can't pull of that bird looking thing with clones instead of fodder? Btw that wasn't his most powerful frs.

Keyword: tip. Tip=/=whole. A whole>FRS.
As I said, with support. That FRS would've had no effect by itself, so it can have no effect on a Mokuton hand.

Since when is Hashirama a genius and a far better strategist than Naruto, that's your opinion. That stratergy is all under the assumption Naruto stands there while Hashirama circles around him and sets up a barrier. If Hashirama sets up some clones Naruto can do the same thing and attack those clones. Tbb's more than enough to destroy FTW all it is is wood and a tbb can pretty much reduced a mountain to dust. It doesn't need to be dust release to destroy that technique.p

He won't be able to focus on anything else while he's occupied with Hashi and fighting for his life. And all he has to do is send his clones off to the side somewhere where Naruto won't see them... not that hard to get around.

And there's no proof to support your claim, while I gave a plethora of proof to support mine. And it's not all just wood, it's actual life brought up from the ground through Hashi's KKG which no one else has. And you claim it doesn't have to be a dust tech to take out Flower World, but the truth is, we've never seen anybody else do so. So my point still stands. Sending a TBB around will just produce more pollen and shake everything around it.

He can tank his own tbb, that's not an issue.

Manga facts disagree, he couldn't tank his own Rasenshuriken. He's gonna get hurt, regardless.

And now that I think about it, he doesn't even have to shrink the barrier. One TBB will produce a size enough explosion to cover the entire barrier and everything inside it.

Genjutsu is one of the last things Naruto has to worry about, go back to the chapter where Bee explains why genjutsu isn't a problem for perfect jinchuuriki's. Bringer of Darkness isn't even that good, Hiruzen broke out of it easily and sealed up the two Hokage's. I've given you counters to Ftw, escape it's range with speed, sheer will power, destroy it or sit in the kurama avatar away from the pollen. It's not an unstoppable technique.

And I already know of the 'jinchuuriki can't get trapped in Genjutsu' excuse, everybody does. And that's why I noted that noted that even Tailed beasts can fall to the Genjutsu.

And I should remind you that the one who trapped Bee in Genjutsu was Sasuke. Before he even got EMS. And I'll admit, while Sasuke will outclass Hashirama when it comes to Genjutsu, this one skill, Bringer of Darkness can out-perform any genjutsu Sasuke can dish out. So Hashi Genjutsu>Sasuke.

And I've given you my counters to Flower World. It is an inescapable technique. And he can't just sit in there forever with Kurama, he'll just run out of chakra.

Odama rasenshuriken, larger than a boss summon. A tbb is the size of Kurama's mouth, so it's a lot larger considering boss summons and bijuu are close in size.

Alright, you got me on that one.
But he could only produce one of those.

Or he can do

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when the attack comes at him. He can out run mokuton, he doesn't need to wait around then run on it.

And... what exactly was he doing in that scan?

Vibrations? You're really clutching at straws now, the Juubi's larger than that technique and nobody's having issues of vibrations.

Well, I can't blame you for that. It was just something I came up with.
And Juubi has been extremely stationary so far.

 

[GrayParadise]

Naruto was the only one who used an attack. The rest of the SA followed behind him, as he took the lead. It was only his FRS that was used against the juubi. As that was the only technique shown when the alliance went to pursue madara and obito.

I feel as though you are simply assuming the entire alliance attacked the tail instead of naruto alone (even though naruto was the only one shown with a active jutsu) becuase you dont want to believe that Bijuu Mode Naruto could have the power to slice the juubi's tail by himself, when in fact the only person shown in the manga to take action against the juubi's tail was naruto.

You're wanking pretty darn hard.
So you're trying to tell me, that Naruto alone could slice off a Juubi Tail?

Its Intresting that you call Hashirama a genius, becuase out of Tobirama, Hiruzen, and Minato, Hashirama is the only one that doesnt have any credit to being a genius. Hashirama has never displayed any Genius feats that would allow anyone to credit him a genius, so im curious to know where you got the idea that he is a Genius. Also, what makes him a better strategist than naruto? You have only seen him in one battle, and you automatically assune he is a better strategist that naruto. I dont see the logic in your statement regarding is genius and strategic abilities.

He was born in an era of war, the most fierce war of the shinobi world at the time; the Senju/Uchiha war. I'm pretty sure he's smarter and more strategetic when it comes to fighting, he was fighting for his young life against full grown Uchiha's almost every day.

You say that hashirama will create clones to trap naruto, yet you must have forgotten that naruto can creat clones as well that are faster than Hashirama's clone and can sense there where abouts very easily. The could stop hashirama's clones from creating the barrier.

Already responded.
And then, all he has to do is knock him out of the air with the GFT when he gets too close. Knocked. Out.

Also, If naruto launches a TBB at the Flowering Tree, the explosion would destroy the tree and the pollen, and the heat from the explosion would burn the pollen and tree to make it ineffective. The TBB would not simply make the trees shake, it would obliterate them to nothing.

...And then he obliterates HIMSELF to nothing from the explosion of being inside the barrier.

This is the size of a TBB

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And then Hashi tanks using the Hobi tech. Not that hard.

They're large enough to slice through several pieces of the CT which size is close to mountains. Odama rasenshuriken is a few times larger than the mokuton hand used to pick up the 9 tails, based on it being 3 times the size of a boss summon.

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Um... that wasn't CT... that was a piece of a rock. CT fell apart when Kurama was resealed.

The Rasenshuriken was the tip of the attack which cut through the Juubi's tail, the bird looking thing pushed it through. It's like a knife. Also whose to say he can't pull of that bird looking thing with clones instead of fodder? Btw that wasn't his most powerful frs.

Keyword: tip. Tip=/=whole. A whole>FRS.
As I said, with support. That FRS would've had no effect by itself, so it can have no effect on a Mokuton hand.

Since when is Hashirama a genius and a far better strategist than Naruto, that's your opinion. That stratergy is all under the assumption Naruto stands there while Hashirama circles around him and sets up a barrier. If Hashirama sets up some clones Naruto can do the same thing and attack those clones. Tbb's more than enough to destroy FTW all it is is wood and a tbb can pretty much reduced a mountain to dust. It doesn't need to be dust release to destroy that technique.p

He won't be able to focus on anything else while he's occupied with Hashi and fighting for his life. And all he has to do is send his clones off to the side somewhere where Naruto won't see them... not that hard to get around.

And there's no proof to support your claim, while I gave a plethora of proof to support mine. And it's not all just wood, it's actual life brought up from the ground through Hashi's KKG which no one else has. And you claim it doesn't have to be a dust tech to take out Flower World, but the truth is, we've never seen anybody else do so. So my point still stands. Sending a TBB around will just produce more pollen and shake everything around it.

He can tank his own tbb, that's not an issue.

Manga facts disagree, he couldn't tank his own Rasenshuriken. He's gonna get hurt, regardless.

And now that I think about it, he doesn't even have to shrink the barrier. One TBB will produce a size enough explosion to cover the entire barrier and everything inside it.

Genjutsu is one of the last things Naruto has to worry about, go back to the chapter where Bee explains why genjutsu isn't a problem for perfect jinchuuriki's. Bringer of Darkness isn't even that good, Hiruzen broke out of it easily and sealed up the two Hokage's. I've given you counters to Ftw, escape it's range with speed, sheer will power, destroy it or sit in the kurama avatar away from the pollen. It's not an unstoppable technique.

And I already know of the 'jinchuuriki can't get trapped in Genjutsu' excuse, everybody does. And that's why I noted that noted that even Tailed beasts can fall to the Genjutsu.

And I should remind you that the one who trapped Bee in Genjutsu was Sasuke. Before he even got EMS. And I'll admit, while Sasuke will outclass Hashirama when it comes to Genjutsu, this one skill, Bringer of Darkness can out-perform any genjutsu Sasuke can dish out. So Hashi Genjutsu>Sasuke.

And I've given you my counters to Flower World. It is an inescapable technique. And he can't just sit in there forever with Kurama, he'll just run out of chakra.

Odama rasenshuriken, larger than a boss summon. A tbb is the size of Kurama's mouth, so it's a lot larger considering boss summons and bijuu are close in size.

Alright, you got me on that one.
But he could only produce one of those.

Or he can do

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when the attack comes at him. He can out run mokuton, he doesn't need to wait around then run on it.

And... what exactly was he doing in that scan?

Vibrations? You're really clutching at straws now, the Juubi's larger than that technique and nobody's having issues of vibrations.

Well, I can't blame you for that. It was just something I came up with.
And Juubi has been extremely stationary so far.

 

[Midday]

Um... that wasn't CT... that was a piece of a rock. CT fell apart when Kurama was resealed.

I know, I said pieces of CT and showed how large they were compared to the mountains around them.

Keyword: tip. Tip=/=whole. A whole>FRS.
As I said, with support. That FRS would've had no effect by itself, so it can have no effect on a Mokuton hand.

It's like a knife, the sharp bit does most of the work when cutting something.

He won't be able to focus on anything else while he's occupied with Hashi and fighting for his life. And all he has to do is send his clones off to the side somewhere where Naruto won't see them... not that hard to get around.

So Naruto needs to focus to make clones whilst fighting Hashirama and Hashirama doesn't while fight Naruto?

And there's no proof to support your claim, while I gave a plethora of proof to support mine. And it's not all just wood, it's actual life brought up from the ground through Hashi's KKG which no one else has. And you claim it doesn't have to be a dust tech to take out Flower World, but the truth is, we've never seen anybody else do so. So my point still stands. Sending a TBB around will just produce more pollen and shake everything around it.

I need proof to show a tbb would destroy mokuton? The thing can level mountains mokuton isn't tanking it's explosion. An compressed one tore through the wood dragon like paper.

Manga facts disagree, he couldn't tank his own Rasenshuriken. He's gonna get hurt, regardless.

Manga facts have him blocking a tbb from the Juubi.

And now that I think about it, he doesn't even have to shrink the barrier. One TBB will produce a size enough explosion to cover the entire barrier and everything inside it.

Okay, but I gave you a reason why Hashirama isn't getting up a barrier.

And I already know of the 'jinchuuriki can't get trapped in Genjutsu' excuse, everybody does. And that's why I noted that noted that even Tailed beasts can fall to the Genjutsu.


And I should remind you that the one who trapped Bee in Genjutsu was Sasuke. Before he even got EMS. And I'll admit, while Sasuke will outclass Hashirama when it comes to Genjutsu, this one skill, Bringer of Darkness can out-perform any genjutsu Sasuke can dish out. So Hashi Genjutsu>Sasuke.

Since when has a bijuu been put in a genjutsu while it's sealed in a host. Half the battle with genjutsu is knowing you're in one which is obvious with BoD, Naruto has a partner to disrupt the chakra at any time, genjutsu is a non factor in this fight. The Uchiha clan in general were praised for their genjutsu, Sasuke is an ems user he's not outclassed by Hashirama in the genjutsu department.

And I've given you my counters to Flower World. It is an inescapable technique. And he can't just sit in there forever with Kurama, he'll just run out of chakra.

Chakra is the last of Naruto's worries.

Alright, you got me on that one.
But he could only produce one of those.

I really don't think 1 odama rasenshuriken is his limit.

And... what exactly was he doing in that scan?

Stopping mokuton in it's tracks with a barrage of rasengans.

Well, I can't blame you for that. It was just something I came up with.
And Juubi has been extremely stationary so far.

Alright.

 

[BlackFlame44]

Why is thread still exist?

Naruto wins. It's so simple.

1000 KCM clones, hashirama focuses on fighting them, then naruto uses his speed and takes him down. End of thread.

even naruto cant do that...stop being a narutard

 

[Transcendence]

Actually this is wrong. Hashirama cant completely supress kurama, and this was stated in the Databook.

And IMO naruto can defeat Hashirama.

As far as we know SM Hashirama = SM Naruto.

And Base Hashirama without sage mode cant beat Naruto.​

I didn't say Kurama. I said Kyuubi chakra, aka BM. The cloak that Naruto has. You don't read this manga if you think Hashirama loses to any form of Naruto. Base Hashirama takes the strongest version of Naruto low-mid difficulty AT MOST. This same "base" Hashirama was catching 100% Kurama TBB's and casually throwing them back. Hashirama utterly stomps with SM. Beyond belief.

 

[BlackFlame44]

I didn't say Kurama. I said Kyuubi chakra, aka BM. The cloak that Naruto has. You don't read this manga if you think Hashirama loses to any form of Naruto. Base Hashirama takes the strongest version of Naruto low-mid difficulty AT MOST. This same "base" Hashirama was catching 100% Kurama TBB's and casually throwing them back. Hashirama utterly stomps with SM. Beyond belief.

thank you i doubt naruto could beat current madara let alone hashirama

 

[GrayParadise]

I know, I said pieces of CT and showed how large they were compared to the mountains around them.

Oh, I muast've missed that. There are a ton of things about that proof that looks incredibly suspect. For starters, we don't even know the exact size of the rock that he cut, the perspective kept on switching back and forth from the Mountain view to stress it's incredible size (as a whole) compared to the mountains, and you can't say for sure that those were mountains in the background of the panel where the Rasenshuriken was threwn. In fact, I'm 99% sure they weren't. But I won't bother arguing with that.

The FRS would never touch him in any case. Hobi Technique tanks it. And like I said... 1K Hands is absolutely gigantic. Naruto's biggest RS wouldn't get near it. If it did, Hobi Tech would tank. And if it didn't, he can't fire them off in a rapid fashion like Madara did with Kurama. The Consecutive Bijuu Dama Tech he used were tiny, they were only around the size of his hand, and can't do enough damage to completely destroy it.

It's like a knife, the sharp bit does most of the work when cutting something.

'Most of the work' won't cut it when he has to deal with the other 999 hands coming for his life.

So Naruto needs to focus to make clones whilst fighting Hashirama and Hashirama doesn't while fight Naruto?

No. I'm just saying Hashi is more prepared.
In any case, I can go back to the argument I used before now that I've made my point... since Naruto can't blitz out of there as fast as you assume he can, that gives Hashi way more time than he needs to send out 3 other clones.

I need proof to show a tbb would destroy mokuton? The thing can level mountains mokuton isn't tanking it's explosion. An compressed one tore through the wood dragon like paper.

And then, like I said earlier, he blows himself to bits from the explosion.

Manga facts have him blocking a tbb from the Juubi.

OK.
Scans.
I just looked at the chapter you thought he tanked it. He didn't.

Okay, but I gave you a reason why Hashirama isn't getting up a barrier.

And I just gave you one earlier in this post why he is.

Since when has a bijuu been put in a genjutsu while it's sealed in a host. Half the battle with genjutsu is knowing you're in one which is obvious with BoD, Naruto has a partner to disrupt the chakra at any time, genjutsu is a non factor in this fight. The Uchiha clan in general were praised for their genjutsu, Sasuke is an ems user he's not outclassed by Hashirama in the genjutsu department.

Not while inside a host, but regardless they're NOT immune to genjutsu.
And Hashi's BOD>Anything Sasuke has. And even if he's aware he's in one, he still can't do anything about it. That's the key to the success of BOD. Just look at Kakashi and the Animal Path (or whichever one Jiraya fought). Both of them were completely aware of being in Genjutsu and they couldn't do anything about it. They were stuck, trashed.

Chakra is the last of Naruto's worries.

It'll become one when he stays there for an hour.

I really don't think 1 odama rasenshuriken is his limit.

It's not the limit he should be worried about. It's the rate.


Anyway, GG Naruto.

Stopping mokuton in it's tracks with a barrage of rasengans.



Alright.