【NB Debate Tourney: Varrah vs Owarij】

[Solo]

YOU dont get it; Neither has ever summoned Manda 1 (sasuke had Oru DNA when he had it; hebi sasuke). Based on manga; none has ever summoned manda 1 (hebi has, not ms), and Kabuto had Manda 2 because 1 wasn't usable. Unless they state (manda 1 can be used as a spl condition), it shouldnt be used (unless they contradict them self's)

Why am i even talking to you; you dont know anything anyway.

Hebi Sasuke and MS Sasuke is still the same person. We as fans, decided Sasuke couldn't summon Snakes anymore due to Orochimaru's Curse Seal being taking away.

It was never stated in the manga that he couldn't.

 

[Anub]

I agree with Draegod that the match-up is bad. I'm not trying to insult anyone, or take anything away from it, but each one of those characters has at least 1 jutsu that can kill/severely wound any of those opponents (if you need me to be specific, re-read the manga). Also, whoever says that team 2 has a clear advantage is wrong. MS Sasuke (consider him healthy) is no pushover. DSM Kabuto's healing factor is not to be ignored. Come on guys. The one good thing about this match-up is that you can argue both ways and you can still prove a point. I'm not going to give anymore details, so that I won't interfere with the debaters, but I will say that either side can win! Also, I haven't been up to date with this tourney so I don't know how the judging is done, but back when I was judging these tourneys, I always considered more the debaters' points and his method of proving, rather than which person got assigned which character.

 

[Draegod]

Hebi Sasuke and MS Sasuke is still the same person. We as fans, decided Sasuke couldn't summon Snakes anymore due to Orochimaru's Curse Seal being taking away.

It was never stated in the manga that he couldn't.

You do know He has the curse mark again right? Could that be why he could summon snakes again?

But besides that, Can Kakshi in part 1 use kamui in debates? According to your logic he should be able to since he had it when he was a teenager..
Can minato use ma and pa in debates? etc etc get where im going with this? It has to be at least hinted that he can do it, ms sasuke has no hints of using snakes.

But if you guys wanna make up new rules its cool, just be consistent from now on.

 

[Fresco]

You do know He has the curse mark again right? Could that be why he could summon snakes again?

But besides that, Can Kakshi in part 1 use kamui in debates? According to your logic he should be able to since he had it when he was a teenager..
Can minato use ma and pa in debates? etc etc get where im going with this? It has to be at least hinted that he can do it, ms sasuke has no hints of using snakes.

But if you guys wanna make up new rules its cool, just be consistent from now on.

Honestly, does it matter THAT much? I don't understand why its that big of a deal to you. I gave Sasuke Manda I to match Nagato's and Jiraiya's vast arsenal of summons. I mean, I could give Kabuto Manda II. I hope you know that all of Nagato's and Jiraiya's summons are vastly inferior to it.

@Anub: I've thought of the match quite a lot here lately. My intent was to give each debaters characters that had a wide array of jutsu to work with and see how well each debater can utilize them and counter them as well.

 

[Nous]

Why are people arguing about some so stupid? Is it hard to understand the restrictions that have been placed? =.=

 

[Fresco]

Why are people arguing about some so stupid? Is it hard to understand the restrictions that have been placed? =.=

Yeah I don't see Owarij or Varrah complaining lawl

I had no idea that giving Sasuke Manda I, something he has used before, would be that bad and I really don't see why it matters.

 

[Shura]

This isn't such a bad match up.

 

[Solo]

Yeah I don't see Owarij or Varrah complaining lawl

I had no idea that giving Sasuke Manda I, something he has used before, would be that bad and I really don't see why it matters.

It's okay MU because IMO.. It could go either way.

 

[Draegod]

Honestly, does it matter THAT much? I don't understand why its that big of a deal to you. I gave Sasuke Manda I to match Nagato's and Jiraiya's vast arsenal of summons. I mean, I could give Kabuto Manda II. I hope you know that all of Nagato's and Jiraiya's summons are vastly inferior to it.

@Anub: I've thought of the match quite a lot here lately. My intent was to give each debaters characters that had a wide array of jutsu to work with and see how well each debater can utilize them and counter them as well.

You dont get it because your a new judge. It isnt about manda 1/2 its about feats shown in time periods! 1) manda 1 is dead when sasuke gets MS, 2) Sasuke ms has never summoned a snake. Its more so in being consistent in the tourney rules and what they "can " do or use. Just be smarter when making match ups and using sasuke for the 4th time and Jman for the 2nd-3rd time. etc etc

 

[Fresco]

You dont get it because your a new judge. It isnt about manda 1/2 its about feats shown in time periods! 1) manda 1 is dead when sasuke gets MS, 2) Sasuke ms has never summoned a snake. Its more so in being consistent in the tourney rules and what they "can " do or use. Just be smarter when making match ups and using sasuke for the 4th time and Jman for the 2nd-3rd time. etc etc

I'm sorry for what you see as a bad match-up and my failures as a judge ._.

But in all seriousness, Solo and 6 paths had no problems with it and I see no problem with it as well.

 

[Owarij]

The Sage And The God

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For These two ninjas, I do not believe a great character Introduction should be needed, they are both without a doubt two of the most Skilled and multifaceted ninjas in the entire manga. One of which holds the power of the Rikkudo himself, a power who Dsm Kabuto once feared to go up against, despite all his bodily improvements

Spoiler

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I'll begin my Intro by stating my belief that the J/N composition just about counters all possible combinations Sasuke and Kabuto can throw at them... Taking into consideration the restrictions posted in the OP, the battle starts with Manga knowledge, Kabuto knows alot about the Rinnegan, but Sasuke knows little , Jiraya gains information about amaterasu while Nagato , manga wise, already has an a good deal of knowledge of the Mangekyou techniques, amaterasu, Tsukyomi and Susanno.


As The Battle commences, Jiraya enters Sage Mode(instantly) and summons ma and pa to aid in the battle , All while Nagato utilizes his animal path abilities to summon 2 of His Chameleons , 1 For Jiraya to mount, the other for himself. He would then summon one of each of his summonings, which include ;

Giant Drill-Beaked Bird
Giant Multi-Headed Dog
Giant Panda
Giant Ox
Giant Rhino
Giant Crustacean
Giant Centipede
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Both chameleons that Jiraya and Nagato are on utilize their Camoflage ability, Ma utilizes

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While this happens, Jiraya starts writing a forumla for Fūka Hōin and when finished ,wraps it around his arm for potential later use.. , Such a thing Isn't needed for Nagato, as he has two sure proof ways of defeating amaterasu, shinra tensei or his Fūjutsu Kyūin , which , like the Fuka Hoin, is a sealing technique...

As Far as Sasuke goes, His main moves that are cause for concern is Amaterasu and the ever so deadly Susanno arrow.. Since the characters are aware of Sasuke's amaterasu, they would position themselves so that Nagato is in front of Jiraya, Just in case ,

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.. this includes Susanno arrow, as even

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and thus would be sealed, The fire seal as described previously would be a last resort, for the off chance that jiraya does get hit by amaterasu... Not that any of it matters.. for right now, enclosed area is mostly covered in dust. The obstruction almost completely hinders Sasuke's Ocular Sharingan and its abilities, leaving the sensor ninja at an advantage.....Jiraya with an activation of his Barrier Ninjutsu Tengai Hōjin joins in on the list of ninjas capable of sensing the chakra and movement in and area... and as you know, Nagato is a capable sensor himself... one that was able to trace Kabuto's location from miles away..
....

Kabuto, who has his on methods of sensing has a few options in such a scenario, all of which are directly countered by Nagato's abilities... His White Rage jutsu, which is ninjutsu would be absorbed either while in its aerial form or while it's around the ninjas, though such a thing isn't a big threat, especially since Nagato' sensing capabilities coupled with a Shinra tensei can break the jutsu with little effort

I'll go as far as to say that Muki tensei, is the only real threat that Sasuke and kabuto have against my team...It's a move that happens quickly, and since most ninjas are grounded, it hits without fair warning... It's understandable how this technique is quite deadly.. But what REALLY made the technique deadly in the fight against Itachi, was that they were located in an extremely small cave... where attacks from the ground and ceiling were easily done


It is very different in this situation as the area is much much wider, there a wide and open space to battle in, with no close by ceilings or cave walls... This location gives my team a ten fold better chance at countering muki tensei, when used, seeing as

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1) sensors will be able to react to the change in environment much faster
2) The chameleon both ninjas are mounted on would be the first to receive any sort of ground damage from the ability, and essentially tank the blow, giving both ninjas ample time to dodge/counter.... Nagato can shinra tensei the incoming attack away, while Jiraya quickly use his sm increased speed and reflexes to escape to the top of another summoning..



It goes without saying , that the remaining set of Kabuto's attack would prove mostly futile against Nagato... His sound four ninja abilities, such as Kidoumaru's web shots and Kimimaro's bone attacks will all get repelled back at him with Shinra tensei.., All the mean while, attacks from Nagato's Summonings continue against the enemy ninja... Everytime a Summoning dies, he summons a new one in replacement to continue the assult and overwhelm the opponents... Jiraya utilizes his sensing capabilities to locate Sasuke, and uses the Yomi Numa to start Sinking his Susanno(he will also use this to restrain Manda if summoned, as he did before)... If Sasuke escapes by entering an aerial state with his Hawk, Banshō Ten'in in combination with Pa's ,Zessenzan Tongue Lash (Which easily sliced and ripped through rock and metal with its sheer speed, or Senpō: Kebari Senbon would suffice in taking Sasuke Out..
Kabuto can attempt a defense, but would have to worry about his own safety , as several summoning and Nagato keep him on the defense...


Once Sasuke Is taken out of the equation, the focus can be put on Kabuto, who is a trickier person to kill, as he has his incredible regeneration and liquifuiable state ...... But once again , Nagato's versatility will be his downfall as Nagato has a counter even for such an incredible defence, i.e Ningendō Path...
Once again, a combination of basho tenin combined with

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, and once Nagato lands a hand on him , the match is Set, as Kabuto would be movement wise paralyzed and unable to hurt nagato while he's protected by his absorption seal.

Introduction finished, I'll await the rebuttal

 

[Blaze Release]

You do know they stated Jman can go sage mode with no time right? So basically he starts in sage mode.

Arh okay then i take it its also the ms sasuke that faced danzo since that is 'prime' ms sasuke.

Anyway why is there restrictions.
Restrictions is basically saying that an opponent is inferior to another and it makes no sense in this case. You have to let the debaters come up with reasons rather than you making them up for them.

Example chibaku tensei restricted makes no sense.
Its simple, chibaku tensei will not play a part in this because it will also affect nagato's partner, jiraiya, but also the environment will not allow nagato to destroy his village. Likewise kabuto's muki tensei could very well control the rocks that form chibaku tensei. But also theoretically since he has all the abilities of the sound 5, he can use other abilities that he didn't show against the uchiha bro's and some of these abilities could further affect chibaku tensei.

Also all forms of genjutsu being restricted makes no sense. It allows the debaters to think before they throw attacks around. Gamarinsho for example will also affect nagato, something that jiraiya has to think about. Like wise, mugen onsa will affect sasuke, something kabuto has to think about.

Why Gedo mazo is also restricted makes little sense, since the only in battle feats that nagato has of gedo mazo was an empty one which doesn't contain the bijuu's but also its usage affects nagato greatly as we saw against hanzo.

Manda 2 shouldn't be restricted.
The only restrictions that is valid is edo tensei. Everything else should be allowed as that will make things interesting.

Anyway both debaters are my sons, true story. So i am a very proud father right now

 

[Solo]

Varrah has requested an extension. I'll give this debate to the 25th then we gotta roll on to the semifinals.

 

[Solo]

Sorry, everyone.. Varrah is unable to continue. Guess we're moving on to the semifinals.