Minato isn't beating either Raikage

blackstar9

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Wtf is this lol. The raikage already stated that he thought minato could never be surpassed, and the 4th was trained by/knew the 3rd.

Both of these raikages get beat pretty easily. To suggest someone who has countered kamui after seeing it once, even when naruto,kakashi guy nd bee couldnt do shit wouldnt notice the 3rd raikages scar is nothing more than trolling. The 3rd raikage gets killed in a similar way he lost to naruto, lack of sm perception is overcome by minatos sensor abilities. Have you forgotten that minato sensed naruto and the kyuubis chakra w.o needing to use any tech?

After he stabs himself, a 4 symbols seal finishes the 3rd off. As for Ay, we already saw how minato lands a hit on him. If he really wanted to go for the kill, which i dont believe he did, minato can use his kunai( which could cut the hachibis tentacle clean) to slit his throat, ofc it would have to be used after a rasengan to soften up the raiton armor first. A simple task, minato can place his ftg seal on Ays body in an instantaneous moment of impact.
so your saying buy looking at his scar he would just know to hit raikage on his elbow to make him hit himself ? No that doesnt make sense . Comparing minato ( sensing abilities ) to naruto sage mode perception ? that doesnt make sense . as for AY your argument is minato first hits the area with a few rasengans then slice his neck with kunai ? thats hardly convincing
 

blackstar9

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So the 3rd Raikage is the strongest character?
because that's not apply to Minato alone, you know?
all the other characters can't harm him with their jutsus as well. Therefore the 3rd > Madara, Hashirama, Kabuto
and so on?

You must be registered for see images
read manga where its clearly stated nothing can pierce his defense except his own attack ?
 

Troyg39

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no 8 tails told naruto they both collasped with jutsu active . Thats how he figured it out ! last i checked minato cant talk to 8 tails . Nor does minato have sage mode to predict exact time to make raikage hit himself . Saying minato would just figure it out wothout talking to 8 tails ... i doubt it
Right he was told that they both had their jutsu active. He as not told that Raikage ended up hurting himself. He came up with that conlusion on his own. Like I said before it's common logic in warfare to try and use your enemies weapons against them if your own either doesn't work or you run out. This was Naruto's first war and didn't have any prior war experience so ofcorse he would need help to come to this conclusion but Minato on the other hand had war experience, was older, and smarter. Chances are the thought to try and use Raikage's own attacks against him would've occured in his mind.

Also as the OP stated, Minato knew the 3rd Raikage. If that is the case, then surely he knew about hell stab being the strongest attack and Raikage's body being the strongest defense. The idea of using the strongest attack to try and pierce the strongest defense is a relatively simple idea, and when combined with the war logic argument I gave earlier, I really don't understand why you and OP feel like Minato would not have eventually thought to try and use Raikage's attack against him. It's really a lot simpler than you guys are trying to make it. But I still respect your opinion and if you honestly feel like the chances of Minato thinking to do something this is slim to none then ok

so your saying buy looking at his scar he would just know to hit raikage on his elbow to make him hit himself ? No that doesnt make sense . Comparing minato ( sensing abilities ) to naruto sage mode perception ? that doesnt make sense . as for AY your argument is minato first hits the area with a few rasengans then slice his neck with kunai ? thats hardly convincing
His argument for A actually makes sense. His ligntning armor does wear out, as shown when amaterasu was able to do damage. Also A was clearly worried when Minato caught him off guard, so the idea the kunai would've done damage is based off of A's surprise. After all why be scared of something that can't hurt you unless...well...it can hurt you? And another thing, Ay's body is not like the 3rd Raikage's. It is more fragile and can be damaged a lot easier. A rasengan would liekly damage Ay. Maybe not 3rd, but Ay yes. He is currently bleeding to death after all. And Minato activated FTG and dodged Ay's attack at point blank range, and then countered him and caught him off guard, I think his perception is good enough to be able to redirect hell stab at the right moment
 
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Edward

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Minato wins mid to high difficulty. Minato's smart, jiraiya even praised him as a genius. He'll analyze the situation and come up with a plan
 

blackstar9

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Right he was told that they both had their jutsu active. He as not told that Raikage ended up hurting himself. He came up with that conlusion on his own. Like I said before it's common logic in warfare to try and use your enemies weapons against them if your own either doesn't work or you run out. This was Naruto's first war and didn't have any prior war experience so ofcorse he would need help to come to this conclusion but Minato on the other hand had war experience, was older, and smarter. Chances are the thought to try and use Raikage's own attacks against him would've occured in his mind.

Also as the OP stated, Minato knew the 3rd Raikage. If that is the case, then surely he knew about hell stab being the strongest attack and Raikage's body being the strongest defense. The idea of using the strongest attack to try and pierce the strongest defense is a relatively simple idea, and when combined with the war logic argument I gave earlier, I really don't understand why you and OP feel like Minato would not have eventually thought to try and use Raikage's attack against him. It's really a lot simpler than you guys are trying to make it. But I still respect your opinion and if you honestly feel like the chances of Minato thinking to do something this is slim to none then ok
Im tired now so ill make my last argument . And we can agree to disagree . The 3rd scar looks like a small lightning bolt ! It hardly looks like a stab wound . Especially one a man of the 3rd raikage size would inflict on himself . Do you agree that its a small scar? And thats even if you guess correctly that it was self inflicted !!!! Naruto asked the rubber guy about the scar . He didnt even know hell his son didnt know how he got the scar ! But according to you minato will figure something out, that the people closest to the 3rd didnt kno? . Only naruto could have figured it out because he is the only one who could communicate with 8 taills .And naruto is one of the few to have sage mode perception abilities . So i doubt he would just figure it out . As far as Ay is concerned he tanked bee bijuu lariat . That would take most people head off . But im supposed to believe a kunai will cut his neck ? If you read the whole thread you would notice i said it would be a tie because minato cant hurt either raikage , especially not the 3rd . But they cant catch him either . I see your sig . Im sure you disagree but thats cool
 

blackstar9

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Minato wins mid to high difficulty. Minato's smart, jiraiya even praised him as a genius. He'll analyze the situation and come up with a plan
thats what all minato fans have been saying . He will just figure it out . Hardly a debate tactic but im too sleepy to keep debating . Hell this isnt even my thread lol
 

Troyg39

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Im tired now so ill make my last argument . And we can agree to disagree . The 3rd scar looks like a small lightning bolt ! It hardly looks like a stab wound . Especially one a man of the 3rd raikage size would inflict on himself . Do you agree that its a small scar? And thats even if you guess correctly that it was self inflicted !!!! Naruto asked the rubber guy about the scar . He didnt even know hell his son didnt know how he got the scar ! But according to you minato will figure something out, that the people closest to the 3rd didnt kno? . Only naruto could have figured it out because he is the only one who could communicate with 8 taills .And naruto is one of the few to have sage mode perception abilities . So i doubt he would just figure it out . As far as Ay is concerned he tanked bee bijuu lariat . That would take most people head off . But im supposed to believe a kunai will cut his neck ? If you read the whole thread you would notice i said it would be a tie because minato cant hurt either raikage , especially not the 3rd . But they cant catch him either . I see your sig . Im sure you disagree but thats cool
And if you read the thread you would see that I also said it would be a tie. Also if you actually take the time to read my sig, it is simply comparing Minato and his sacrfice to the biblical God. It doesn't make me a Minato fanboy so your little indirect shot was quite stupid just to let you know.

You do realize that hell stab works on the idea of a very concentrated and precise attack right? It's not supposed to leave a large scar because the attack uses the laws of physics to focus a lot of force on a small surface area to increase penetration power. The damage scar will be small but because the attack is focusing all it's power to pierce a small area, the wound cuts deeper and causes more damage than a blast would. So in actuality that clue of a small scar shaped like a lightning bolt actually makes it even more likely for someone with above average intelligence to figure out that a precision lightning strike caused the scar in the first place. And what else fits that profile besides a HELL STAB?? Maybe it's not somehting you would pick up on, but trust me it's relatively simple. I'm not saying that to try and make you feel dumb. Because I'm sure you can easily follow what I'm saying. Which is why I don't understand why you feel this would be so difficult for Minato. Naruto isn't anywhere near the same level of intellignce. And we barely know anything about Rubber Guy execpt that he's old. So no I'm not surprised they didn't know.

No one said he would just figure it out, but eventually there's a good chance he would think to use the strongest attack against the strongest defense. I mean what else would you think to use? Has the manga ever said anything about putting Yata Mirror against Totsuka blade? Yet countless members of the base still managed to come up with the "what if" scenario for putting totsuka blade against yata mirror. Thinking to put the strongest attack against the strongest defense is common sense my friend.

A lariat is a glorified closeline. I've never seen Bee actually take anyone's head off without the help of Ay. So why Ay managing to keep his head intact surprises you is beyond me. You failed to address any counter arguments I've made, so I don't know why you even responded to me again other than to just get the last word.

Edit: I'm sorry I just realized how silly that lariat arguement really sounded. Not only was Bee not trying to kill Ay, but Ay also used lariat on Bee, and his head stayed intact too. So does that mean that Bee also has this invinsible body? Remember even though they call themselves "brothers", they aren't related and Bee did not inherit the tough body that Ay got from his dad. So again, I really don't get why you are trying to use that as an argument
 
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blackstar9

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And if you read the thread you would see that I also said it would be a tie. Also if you actually take the time to read my sig, it is simply comparing Minato and his sacrfice to the biblical God. It doesn't make me a Minato fanboy so your litte indirect shot was quite stupid just to let you know. No one said he would just figure it out, but eventually there's a good chance he would think to use the strongest attack against the strongest defense. I mean what else would you think to use. Has the manga ever said anything about putting Yata Mirror against Totsuka blade? Yet countless members of the base still managed to come up with the "what if" scenario for putting totsuka blad against yata mirror. Thinking to put the strongest attack against the strongest defense is common sense my friend.

A lariat is a glorified closeline. I've never seen Bee actually take anyone's head off without the help of Ay. So why Ay managing to keep his head intact surprises you is beyond me. You failed to address any counter arguments I've made, so I don't know why you even responded to me again other than to just get the last word.
You just said eventually ,there is a good chance he would figure it out to use the strongest attack against the ultimate defense. This is going nowhere. Ive already explained why i dont think he will just figure it out . That whole what if and people put totsuka against yata. Thats the dumbest what if ive ever heard of . Thats right up there with nagato vs the 6 paths of pein . itachi has totsuka and yata mirror . He going to fight himself ? your saying the same thing just wording it differently . He would figure out because what else would he think of ? Or He would figure to use the strongest attack vs the strongest defense . How would he figure this ? He just would because its common knowledge right ? Your ignoring the context in which naruto figured it out . The context is talking to hachibi , asking people close to the 3rd etc . You say i didnt counter your arguments i say you didnt counter mine . well just have to agree to disagree . And i wasnt taking a shot at you . When people have a sig of a character most likely that character is one of their favorites . Debating about a persons favorite character tends to make one bias .
 

Ender Wiggin

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Some of the points defending the raikages may be correct,however, you guys are just focused on ftg n rasengan.Minato also has sealing techs and frog summons to assist. The fourth hokage is very intelligent and has shown this in his fight against obito. It has been proven that neither of the raikages are invincible. If offensively attacking with rasengan fails minato could use summons for assistance by using their ninjutsu. Sealing could be used as well if all else fails. Also the fights between sasuke n naruto had proven that rasengan>chidori,therefore the raikage taking a chidori is not good evidence of his durability. Yes, both are tough opponents for minato but him losing is not a huge possibility. Although the raikages are resistant against ninjutsu n taijutsu they are not resistant to genjutsu. Ma n Pa have shown genjutsu capability. Before anyone trus to say Minato can't summon them, I want to tell you that that is a lie. Minato must have signed a contract because he wad shown summoning a toad in the manga. Once you sign the contract you can summon almost any toad. Don't underestimate minato.
 

Xceliency

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I have a question on the raikage.. sorry if its obvious but when the Raikage charges someone at full speed, is his defense still as strong? I ask this because why would bee jump to protect Ay if Minato only had a kunai?

Ay sure seems to think very highly of him and Minato countered Ay moves very easily. Ay refered to Minato as the savior and said no one would surpass him. Why would you state Minato couldn't beat Ay?


If it's a draw, Raikage will outlast Minato probably.
Minato got tired after continuously using the FTG against the Masked Man.​
No, after he fought with the masked man Minato went on to:
ftg to the village
I believe he teleported another tbb
summon Gamabunta
teleport the nine tails out of the village
teleport to Naruto and Kushina, then teleport them to the fox
perform sealing jutsus
and was stabbed by the nine tails
 
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blackstar9

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Some of the points defending the raikages may be correct,however, you guys are just focused on ftg n rasengan.Minato also has sealing techs and frog summons to assist. The fourth hokage is very intelligent and has shown this in his fight against obito. It has been proven that neither of the raikages are invincible. If offensively attacking with rasengan fails minato could use summons for assistance by using their ninjutsu. Sealing could be used as well if all else fails. Also the fights between sasuke n naruto had proven that rasengan>chidori,therefore the raikage taking a chidori is not good evidence of his durability. Yes, both are tough opponents for minato but him losing is not a huge possibility. Although the raikages are resistant against ninjutsu n taijutsu they are not resistant to genjutsu. Ma n Pa have shown genjutsu capability. Before anyone trus to say Minato can't summon them, I want to tell you that that is a lie. Minato must have signed a contract because he wad shown summoning a toad in the manga. Once you sign the contract you can summon almost any toad. Don't underestimate minato.
Never seen minato summon them so i wont count that . Ive also said earlier that sealing is minato best chance . still dont think minato can hurt eithr raikage
 

Ender Wiggin

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Never seen minato summon them so i wont count that . Ive also said earlier that sealing is minato best chance . still dont think minato can hurt eithr raikage
Like I stated previously, if Minato signed a contract( just like jiraiya n naruto ) then he can summon them. Sign toad contract=summon any toads including Ma and Pa.
 

blackstar9

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And if you read the thread you would see that I also said it would be a tie. Also if you actually take the time to read my sig, it is simply comparing Minato and his sacrfice to the biblical God. It doesn't make me a Minato fanboy so your little indirect shot was quite stupid just to let you know.

You do realize that hell stab works on the idea of a very concentrated and precise attack right? It's not supposed to leave a large scar because the attack uses the laws of physics to focus a lot of force on a small surface area to increase penetration power. The damage scar will be small but because the attack is focusing all it's power to pierce a small area, the wound cuts deeper and causes more damage than a blast would. So in actuality that clue of a small scar shaped like a lightning bolt actually makes it even more likely for someone with above average intelligence to figure out that a precision lightning strike caused the scar in the first place. And what else fits that profile besides a HELL STAB?? Maybe it's not somehting you would pick up on, but trust me it's relatively simple. I'm not saying that to try and make you feel dumb. Because I'm sure you can easily follow what I'm saying. Which is why I don't understand why you feel this would be so difficult for Minato. Naruto isn't anywhere near the same level of intellignce. And we barely know anything about Rubber Guy execpt that he's old. So no I'm not surprised they didn't know.

No one said he would just figure it out, but eventually there's a good chance he would think to use the strongest attack against the strongest defense. I mean what else would you think to use? Has the manga ever said anything about putting Yata Mirror against Totsuka blade? Yet countless members of the base still managed to come up with the "what if" scenario for putting totsuka blade against yata mirror. Thinking to put the strongest attack against the strongest defense is common sense my friend.

A lariat is a glorified closeline. I've never seen Bee actually take anyone's head off without the help of Ay. So why Ay managing to keep his head intact surprises you is beyond me. You failed to address any counter arguments I've made, so I don't know why you even responded to me again other than to just get the last word.

Edit: I'm sorry I just realized how silly that lariat arguement really sounded. Not only was Bee not trying to kill Ay, but Ay also used lariat on Bee, and his head stayed intact too. So does that mean that Bee also has this invinsible body? Remember even though they call themselves "brothers", they aren't related and Bee did not inherit the tough body that Ay got from his dad. So again, I really don't get why you are trying to use that as an argument
didnt notice your response to my small scar argument . Sorry its late where im at . barely awake right now . As for your response I know hell stab is a penetrating tech . However the point im making is it would be hard to guess the wound is self inflicted unless you heard the story . He fell on his own arm . how would someboddy guess that . Its not like the scar looks like a couple finger holes or marks
 

Troyg39

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You just said eventually ,there is a good chance he would figure it out to use the strongest attack against the ultimate defense. This is going nowhere. Ive already explained why i dont think he will just figure it out . That whole what if and people put totsuka against yata. Thats the dumbest what if ive ever heard of . Thats right up there with nagato vs the 6 paths of pein . itachi has totsuka and yata mirror . He going to fight himself ? your saying the same thing just wording it differently . He would figure out because what else would he think of ? Or He would figure to use the strongest attack vs the strongest defense . How would he figure this ? He just would because its common knowledge right ? Your ignoring the context in which naruto figured it out . The context is talking to hachibi , asking people close to the 3rd etc . You say i didnt counter your arguments i say you didnt counter mine . well just have to agree to disagree . And i wasnt taking a shot at you . When people have a sig of a character most likely that character is one of their favorites . Debating about a persons favorite character tends to make one bias .
You gave me your explanation and I was the first to accept our disagreement, but you decided to persist with your arguments. You feel like he wouldn't figure it out because in your mind it's not easy to figure out, that's all that your argument boils down to.

Raikage had his body as a sheild and he had hell stab. So your comment about Itachi having both weapons is a fail. It may be the "dumbest thing you've ever heard" but a simple use of the search bar will give you plenty of threads talking about putting yata mirror against totsuka. So what's dumb to you is apparently common sense to most other members of the base.

I've said the same thing only re-worded because you keep commenting as if you need further explanation. Using an opponents attack against them is common knowledge in war, the scar on Raikages chest is small and shaped like a lighting bolt, which only the hell stab makes sense in that case, using the strongest attack to try and counter the strongest defense is common sense. Despite all of this you still think it makes no sense for Minato to EVENTUALLY be able think to try and use Raikage's own attack against him. Smh if that's your honest opinion then fine.

That's how NARUTO figured it out. He's not of equal intelligence with Minato, who OP said knew of 3rd Raikage. He was known for having the strongest attack and strongest shield. Again putting the two against each other is a simple conclusion to come to. Naruto's "SM perception" that you keep harping about was simply him timing the dodge at the last second. That's it. Minato has already shown he can dodge a lightning attack at point blank range, so his perception is fine.

I didn't say you didn't counter my arugments. I said you aren't ADDRESSING my counter arguments. Minato is one of my fav characters. He's also the same character that I once did an extensive thread about detailing his weaknesses and argued with Minato fans on why he couldn't beat ITACHI (who I personally dislike as a charater). Nothing about my statements have been biased. You don't agree fine. But you lose all validity when you try to use the fanboy argument. And if you're going to use it, atleast be upfront about it

Edit: And no Raikage's scar doesn't reflect fingers. But this is exaclty why I said you aren't addressing any of my counter arguments. You said yourself his scar is small and looks like a lightning bolt. If he is supposed to have the strongest shield yet has a scar, that is enough to figure out that his shield can be penetrated. Naruto didn't need to hear the story to figure this out. So combine that with the fact that it must take an even stronger attack to penetrate, and the only penetrating attack that would leave a small scar that looks like a lightning bolt is hell stab, then you wouldn't need the background story to come to the conclusin that JUST MAYBE the wound was self inflicted somehow. Honestly I remember clearly when those chapters came out. I was thinking that maybe hell stab is what caused the damaged before I heard the story as soon as Naruto pointed out the scar, and that was simply due to the look of it. I'm sure I'm not the only one. You don't agree that's fine. i appreciate the debate.
 
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blackstar9

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Like I stated previously, if Minato signed a contract( just like jiraiya n naruto ) then he can summon them. Sign toad contract=summon any toads including Ma and Pa.
I disagree until i see him summon ma and pa i cant give him credit for that . Naruto never summoned ma or pa . It took jiraiya forever to summon them . As for toad summons . 3rd raikage fist fights with the 8 tails . Im sure he can handle a summon . also black lightning and and Ay tailed beast chakra level have also not been included in this equation
 

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You gave me your explanation and I was the first to accept our disagreement, but you decided to persist with your arguments. You feel like he wouldn't figure it out because in your mind it's not easy to figure out, that's all that your argument boils down to.

Raikage had his body as a sheild and he had hell stab. So your comment about Itachi having both weapons is a fail. It may be the "dumbest thing you've ever heard" but a simple use of the search bar will give you plenty of threads talking about putting yata mirror against totsuka. So what's dumb to you is apparently common sense to most other members of the base.

I've said the same thing only re-worded because you keep commenting as if you need further explanation. Using an opponents attack against them is common knowledge in war, the scar on Raikages chest is small and shaped like a lighting bolt, which only the hell stab makes sense in that case, using the strongest attack to try and counter the strongest defense is common sense. Despite all of this you still think it makes no sense for Minato to EVENTUALLY be able think to try and use Raikage's own attack against him. Smh if that's your honest opinion then fine.

That's how NARUTO figured it out. He's not of equal intelligence with Minato, who OP said knew of 3rd Raikage. He was known for having the strongest attack and strongest shield. Again putting the two against each other is a simple conclusion to come to. Naruto's "SM perception" that you keep harping about was imply him timing the dodge correctly. That's it. Minato has already shown he can dodge a lightning attack at point blank range, so his perception is fine.

I didn't say you didn't counter my arugments. I said you aren't ADDRESSING my counter arguments. Minato is one of my fv characters. He's also the same character that I once did an extensive thread about detailing his weaknesses and argued with Minato fans on why he couldn't beat ITACHI (who I personally dislike as a charater). Nothing about my statements have been biased. You don't agree fine. But you lose all validity when you try to use the fanboy argument. And if you're going to use it, atleast be upfront about it
If its so common give me examples from shippuden where an enemy jutsu was turned against them . Say what you want . Itachi wont fight himself so i dont think that what if scenario is logical . Where is it said totsuka is the strongest attack ? thats not a good comparison .
 

blackstar9

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I have a question on the raikage.. sorry if its obvious but when the Raikage charges someone at full speed, is his defense still as strong? I ask this because why would bee jump to protect Ay if Minato only had a kunai?

Ay sure seems to think very highly of him and Minato countered Ay moves very easily. Ay refered to Minato as the savior and said no one would surpass him. Why would you state Minato couldn't beat Ay?




No, after he fought with the masked man Minato went on to:
ftg to the village
I believe he teleported another tbb
summon Gamabunta
teleport the nine tails out of the village
teleport to Naruto and Kushina, then teleport them to the fox
perform sealing jutsus
and was stabbed by the nine tails
Ay did think highly of him . I never said he didnt . Minato was the only person to surpass him in speed . But that fight was just to prove minato was the fastest . Ay nor bee were injured at all
 

Troyg39

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If its so common give me examples from shippuden where an enemy jutsu was turned against them . Say what you want . Itachi wont fight himself so i dont think that what if scenario is logical . Where is it said totsuka is the strongest attack ? thats not a good comparison .
Naruto vs 3rd Raikage :sy:

Or when Itachi turned Kurenai's genjutsu against her.
Or Sasuke using Amaterasu from Itachi to help strengthen his Kirin
I'm sure there are others but I'm not going to spoon feed the manga to you

Raikage wont fight himself, yet that didn't stop Naruto from trying to use hell stab against himself.

Totsuka blade is said to pierce anything. (Well it's actually said to seal anything it pierces, but most people confuse it with piercing anything) Yata mirror is said to defend against any attack. No matter what you say, people have come up with the idea to put them against one another. To you it's illogical. But many people have thought of it.

As I said, if your own arsenal isn't working or you are out of weapons, it's common knowledge in war to try and use the enemies weapons for your own. If you have nothing left to add I really think this debate is over
 
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NarutoKage2

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so your saying buy looking at his scar he would just know to hit raikage on his elbow to make him hit himself ? No that doesnt make sense . Comparing minato ( sensing abilities ) to naruto sage mode perception ? that doesnt make sense . as for AY your argument is minato first hits the area with a few rasengans then slice his neck with kunai ? thats hardly convincing
Idrc whether or not your convinced, minato beats both the raikages with ease.
And he'll fight, when he realizes the strength of his armor after a few unsuccessful hits he'll look at the scar and deduce, also in the meanwhile minato dodges his attacks with ftg and shuunshin. Do i really have to spill it all out for you, are u slow in the head or sth?
read manga where its clearly stated nothing can pierce his defense except his own attack ?
It was stated by a character and was obvious hyperbole. It was also stated in the manga that minatos strength was unrivalled, and that ametarasu burns hotter than the sun, and that hiruzen was the strongest hokage. Last but not least it was stated in the manga that the 4 hokages are 'the strongest soldiers'. Take it all literally, and minato cant be beaten by anyone other than maybe one of the first 3 hokages.
 
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