Prince Charles
Active member
i agree with kidgamer65, i see no reason why if you already unlocked MS i dont think you have to switch over to it to control kurama you can simply stay in your 3tomeo state.
Misconception: Obito never used MS genjutsu to control the kyuubi
- Thread starter NarutoKage2
- Start date
That's because they don't have Kurama in them directly. It's like using the Shinobi Alliance in that analogy. They all had the shroud, but since they didn't have Kurama in them, it didn't matter in his will was there. He wasn't physically there. When Sasuke pushed away Kurama's chakra, he was within Naruto's seal chamber. Had Naruto gone red chakra cloak, he would not be able to subdue him.
It was released completely, that's why Jiraiya got the slash. He only got to 4t because Jiraiya wasn't stupid enough to let him continuously break out. Kurama has to go through the stages in order to be his complete form. Unless, however, if he is forced out completely, like Obito did to Kushina. He reversed the seal on her. That's why when Naruto fought with Pain, Kishi emphasized on going through the tails cycle with Yamato constantly checking his hand.
AlphaScythian
Active member
I repeat again. Any chakra naruto gets from kurama is linked to kurama and kurama uses it to impose his will, a link is a must.
Sasuke does not push any chakra anywhere, he cant, he has no such ability. Sasuke attacked kurama's will directly and made it retreat.
Kurama was going through stages in order to gradually push more chakra through the seal. Even so it had to control naruto in order to brake the seal.
In case of kushina seal was nearly non existent so it went out in full form.
Then it seems we're at an agreement... Though, after consideration, I agree with you on your first point. Kurama's will was attacked directly. Otherwise he wouldn't have remarked about Madara's evil intent.
Agreed again.
Good debate
AlphaScythian
Active member
OMG. I cant believe it. Ur just trolling, right? XDThen it seems we're at an agreement... Though, after consideration, I agree with you on your first point. Kurama's will was attacked directly. Otherwise he wouldn't have remarked about Madara's evil intent.
Agreed again.
Good debate
NarutoKage2
Active member
Do you know the specifics of the MS method? All you have is speculation based on vague imagery.
Thanks for proving my point. What you just said proves that your entire argument hinges on:
-Kyuubi had sharingan eyes
-After contract seal they disappeared
That in itself does'nt prove how or what the method for control was.
Another fail on your part:
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
Itachi and Sasuke both were using 3t, yet Itachi knew that Sasuke did'nt have the mangekyuo. Just because it is'nt physically displayed atm, does'nt mean it or its effects can't be felt. That is to say that, even though what we see is the regular sharingan, the effect of the mangekyuo(or lack thereof) is still there and can be felt(in the first case by the Kyuubi against Madara and in the 2nd by Itachi against Sasuke). Don't jump the gun based on images, that's speculation.
*facepalm*
A 3 tomoe cannot control the kyuubi. When has it EVER controlled any beast on its own????????
It reduces its effectiveness(the MS tech(s).) In Madara's case, the drain was far greater as he used susanoo as well, that was the whole reason he prematurely lost control of the Kyuubi, unlike Obito:
You must be registered for see links
Bottom centre panel. The kyuubi's eye is normal. Obito on the other hand needed a seal to be placed directly on his body to release the control:
You must be registered for see links
SInce all you understand are pictures, answer this:
Did Madara have any seal/binding contract released from him? Was there any such fuinjutsu that Hashi performed on him? Why did the sharingan eye in the Kyuubi disappear even though Madara had his EMS active throughout the fight? And even AFTER the kyuubi's eye turns to normal:
You must be registered for see links
Madara still has his EMS active. WHy? Why did it require a physical seal to release the kyuubi's control in Obito's case, whereas it just happened mid fight in Madara's case?
Ans: There were 2 different techs used by Madara and Obito to control the kyuubi.
Nope, they don't try again.
Possible misconception; was never stated that Mangekyō genjutsu was necessary to control the Kyuubi but more likely implied that only those who have awakened the Mangekyō can control the Kyuubi. It attests to the fact that we've only seen Uchiha wielding the Mangekyō control Kurama; however, being that it was conducted [twice] with the 3 tomoe simply means that the Mangekyō genjutsu "Tsukuyomi" isn't a prerequisite and i can agree to that extent.
There's no difference between Obito's and Madara's control as both are able to "leave" and fight without the kyuubi yet still maintain control:
Portraying that both were fully in control of the kyuubi's overall motive [ "Attack Konoha"/"Attack Sandaime"] but may extend this control to the kyuubi's arsenal as they are in control of it's mind [nervous system] and therefore body.
There's no difference between Obito's and Madara's control as both are able to "leave" and fight without the kyuubi yet still maintain control:
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Portraying that both were fully in control of the kyuubi's overall motive [ "Attack Konoha"/"Attack Sandaime"] but may extend this control to the kyuubi's arsenal as they are in control of it's mind [nervous system] and therefore body.
Last edited:
NarutoKage2
Active member
Don't have time to answer this. Re read the links in the Op, my posts esp the one above yours. The techs Madara and Obito used were different and clearly distinct.
It is possible however that both were able to leave the kyuubi a distance, but there are too many points pointing toward separate techs. Will answer this in detail later.
AlphaScythian
Active member
Oh dude shut up already.
All ur pathetic thread falls apart to the simple fact that u cant control shit with mokuton w/o making a contact.
The very same way madara and obito control juubi now. They linked via mokuton, cut it and control gets severed.
All ur pathetic thread falls apart to the simple fact that u cant control shit with mokuton w/o making a contact.
The very same way madara and obito control juubi now. They linked via mokuton, cut it and control gets severed.
Itachi Hatake
Member
that a grave mistake. The only way Sasuke can calm down Juugo is because of his Sharingan. It reduced his killing urge, thats why Kishi brought light upon it in the manga. Juugo starts chanting kill and Sasuke activates his Sharingan and calms him down, duh
You're blowing things out of proportion and have already forgotten the 3 tomoe was used to control Manda. There is no difference between the tech's as both Madara and Obito:
-> Weren't with the kyuubi ever single moment of the fight.
-> Had full control over the Kyuubi's motive and overall function.
-> Both Madara and Obito [Mangekyou users] have controlled the Kyuubi with a 3 tomoe.
-> Contract seal which is used to terminate active Kuchiyose agreement control was used to release the kyuubi from both Obito's and madara's control; however in hashirama's case he put the kyuubi to sleep:
Hokage-style Sixty-year-old Technique - Kakuan Entering Society with Bliss-bringing Hands* (火影式耳順術 廓庵入鄽垂手, Hokage-shiki Jijun Jutsu - Kakuan Nitten Suisha)
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai, Supplementary, Short range (0-5m)
Users: Yamato, Shodai Hokage
Laid out on the ground is a formation of ten pillars.
Supressing even "calamities"!!
↓What appears on the palm is the order from the user facing the Bijuu.
[picture of Yamato holding out his hand with the kanji for "seat" (座, za)** on it]
The underlined says that shodai can give any order to the bijuu.
There's no difference.
-> Weren't with the kyuubi ever single moment of the fight.
-> Had full control over the Kyuubi's motive and overall function.
-> Both Madara and Obito [Mangekyou users] have controlled the Kyuubi with a 3 tomoe.
-> Contract seal which is used to terminate active Kuchiyose agreement control was used to release the kyuubi from both Obito's and madara's control; however in hashirama's case he put the kyuubi to sleep:
Hokage-style Sixty-year-old Technique - Kakuan Entering Society with Bliss-bringing Hands* (火影式耳順術 廓庵入鄽垂手, Hokage-shiki Jijun Jutsu - Kakuan Nitten Suisha)
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai, Supplementary, Short range (0-5m)
Users: Yamato, Shodai Hokage
Laid out on the ground is a formation of ten pillars.
Supressing even "calamities"!!
↓What appears on the palm is the order from the user facing the Bijuu.
[picture of Yamato holding out his hand with the kanji for "seat" (座, za)** on it]
The underlined says that shodai can give any order to the bijuu.
There's no difference.
KidGamer65
Active member
Awards
NarutoKage2
Active member
You must be registered for see images
So you're suggesting that controlling a summon is the same as controlling a tailed beast? Even when we have two independent sources of verification that clearly state that you need specific conditions(other than sharingan) to do so?
True, i'll concede.
This is false. While Madara truly did control the Kyuubis every single movement, Obito just ordered it to attack Konoha, he did'nt dictate its every movement.
The EMS of Madara was the precondition that let him achieve that control, even if the appearance was that the kyuubi's eyes were 3 tomoed. Obito on the other hand would be hard pressed to mimic what Madara did, as he had the normal MS, in just one eye. He did however have senju dna, which combined with his uchiha dna let him control the kyuubi. Its possible that all the senju dna did was to massively reinforce his chakra, but its still a distinct method of control.
Hang on, that technique(i'd prefer we not use narutopedia btw since its fan made) is this one correct:
You must be registered for see links
Before Hashirama even connects to the Kyuubi with that tech, Kurama's eyes are already normal.Look at that image in the bottom panel. The hand has'nt even made contact yet, so how has the contract seal taken effect?You might say the hand that caught the Kyuubi did it, but the jutsu that you mentioned was used after that. Also Madara's body was unaffected by that tech. While against Minato:
You must be registered for see links
After the contract seal is placed on Obito, the Kyuubi's eyes then turn to normal. Care to explain that if they're the same tech?
Is it not a fact that Obito had senju and uchiha dna when he used the kyuubi?
Is it not a fact that the above 2 were stated by obito himself to be able to control the 9 tails?
Is it not a fact that Obito had only one Mangekyuo eye ?
Is it not a fact that there have been specific requirements stated in the manga for controlling the Kyuubi?
Is it not a fact that Sasuke, who was the 3t user who controlled Manda and suppressed a portion of the Kyuubi's chakra, said that you need the Mangekyuo to control it?
Is it not a fact that Kakashi with one mangekyuo had to do this:
You must be registered for see links
and was thus unable to use his eye to even suppress the chakra, how is it possible that Obito managed to control it using the same eye? I could go on all day, the fact is senju plus uchiha dna is most likely the method Obito used for controlling the Kyuubi.