War arc Sakura vs Hidan

[aimop95]

How is it an assumption? If there were no oxygen Jiraiya would not have survived inside, common sense.

The evidence was already posted, that is when Sakura was coughing when she was freed, meaning she was out of breathe, and by common sense one can not breathe inside if a slug as there is no room for air, I have already refuted your arguments.

Also Shizune and Ino only stayed inside the slug for few seconds unlike Sakura who had to stay during the entire time shinra tensei destroyed the village. Which proves she held her breath for a longer period of time hence why she was coughing.

Except there was oxygen inside, but not because of the barrier, that is what I'm getting at! You have no evidence that the barrier itself inside the toad provides oxygen for the Jiraiya. You are assuming that the barrier itself provides the oxygen, when no where can you back up that statement with hard evidence.

By common sense, getting lurched out into a dust cloud makes you cough and gasp for air. Ino and Shizune were not launched into such an environment. Ino's dad himself wasn't coughing. That means there was not that much dust still in the air after the explosion. Or not enough to make him gag. Unlike Sakura when Pain nuked the village. There even is a single panal dedicated to show how much dust there was in the air after that nuke.

Do I have to show you the scan again? The village was covered in tons of dust stirred up by the attack. More than the little dust Ino and Shizune stirred up when they got thrown across. In fact, no one in that scan with Shizune and Ino were coughing or out of breath because of that little dust cloud. If anything, they should have been gasping for air considering that they (while inside the slugs) were bouncing around so hard that all the air should have been knocked out of them. Yet they weren't. A testament to the slugs protective abilities to not only shield the slug's ward, but keep them un-winded as well.

 

[Obito3631]

Except there was oxygen inside, but not because of the barrier, that is what I'm getting at! You have no evidence that the barrier itself inside the toad provides oxygen for the Jiraiya. You are assuming that the barrier itself provides the oxygen, when no where can you back up that statement with hard evidence.

By common sense, getting lurched out into a dust cloud makes you cough and gasp for air. Ino and Shizune were not launched into such an environment. Ino's dad himself wasn't coughing. That means there was not that much dust still in the air after the explosion. Or not enough to make him gag. Unlike Sakura when Pain nuked the village. There even is a single panal dedicated to show how much dust there was in the air after that nuke.

Do I have to show you the scan again? The village was covered in tons of dust stirred up by the attack. More than the little dust Ino and Shizune stirred up when they got thrown across. In fact, no one in that scan with Shizune and Ino were coughing or out of breath because of that little dust cloud. If anything, they should have been gasping for air considering that they (while inside the slugs) were bouncing around so hard that all the air should have been knocked out of them. Yet they weren't. A testament to the slugs protective abilities to not only shield the slug's ward, but keep them un-winded as well.

Do you even know what kind of barrier this is? Read my edit of my previous post. The place itself is a fairly large place that contains a lot of oxygen to breathe

Spoiler

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Obviously if there is a barrier there is oxygen inside the place otherwise it would be completely useless and jiraiya would not have survived.
The place in the frog in which Jiraiya hided enters the same category as the barrier he went into to kill Animal Path, they are both referred as space time ninjutsu, they are both practically the same thing and both are inside the stomach of a toad, so yes there are proofs that Jiraiya can actually breath inside it unlike people being able to breath inside of Katsuyu which you are merely assuming without any evidences to back it up, so your comparison is void.

The dust was not merely concentrated in a single area, it was scattered all across the village, there was just as much dust where Sakura got lurched out as where Ino and Shizune were launched. And yet, Ino and Shizune weren't coughing.

Them bouncing around does not prevent them from holding their breath. Your arguments are just getting weaker and weaker.

Also you can not argue against common sense, there is no way they can breath while they are confined inside of a slug. You have no evidences that they can.

There were just as much dust where Ino and Shizune were but they weren't coughing, the reason for that is because they didn't have to hold their breath for as long as Sakura had to. It is a very clear evidence. Sakura had to hold her breath for about a minute or so, until the village was completely destroyed, Ino and Shizune hardly had to hold their breath for 5 seconds.

 

[aimop95]

Do you even know what kind of barrier this is? Read my edit of my previous post. The place itself is a fairly large place that contains a lot of oxygen to breathe

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Obviously if there is a barrier there is oxygen inside the place otherwise it would be completely useless and jiraiya would not have survived.
The place in the frog in which Jiraiya hided enters the same category as the barrier he went into to kill Animal Path, they are both referred as space time ninjutsu, they are both practically the same thing and both are inside the stomach of a toad, so yes there are proofs that Jiraiya can actually breath inside it unlike people being able to breath inside of Katsuyu which you are merely assuming without any evidences to back it up, so your comparison is void.

The dust was not merely concentrated in a single area, it was scattered all across the village, there was just as much dust where Sakura got lurched out as where Ino and Shizune were launched. And yet, Ino and Shizune weren't coughing.

Them bouncing around does not prevent them from holding their breath. Your arguments are just getting weaker and weaker.

Also you can not argue against common sense, there is no way they can breath while they are confined inside of a slug. You have no evidences that they can.

There were just as much dust where Ino and Shizune were but they weren't coughing, the reason for that is because they didn't have to hold their breath for as long as Sakura had to. It is a very clear evidence. Sakura had to hold her breath for about a minute or so, until the village was completely destroyed, Ino and Shizune hardly had to hold their breath for 5 seconds.

while I have no manga proof that there is a barrier or other seal inside the slugs. You cannot prove either that the slugs have no way of providing oxygen to their occupants. Just because Sakura came out coughing does not mean anything to help your point. She could have easily been coughing because of the dust in the air. You can interpret that she was suffocating that way inside the slug. But cannot actually disprove my assumption wrong. Only two people came out coughing after Pain's attack. Sakura and Iruka.

Iruka was already hurt, and he didn't come out coughing. He went "ugh" as if in pain. Not because he was suffocating for a minute.

I already gave my case about Sakura. There is a panal dedicated to showing the dusty aftermath right after her little coughing scene. That leads me to believe it was the dust making her cough.

Besides, you don't cough when you are being suffocated in an airless room, you gasp. Coughing is when you are trying to expel dust or some other invasive particle inside your lungs. If there truly was little to no air, she would have come out gasping. Not coughing.

No one else during any point came out of a slug gasping for breath because they were stuck inside it with little to no air (it was not shown).

If we really want to do this properly, You and I must go watch the anime and see how the animators interpreted being stuck in a slug. I will concede to you only if the animators prove your point.

 

[SASUKE IS ABOVE KAGE LEVE]

Hidan rapes the useless pink haired *****.

 

[aimop95]

Going off the anime interpretation. It seems that Katsuyu enveloped Sakura's head completely. Yet Sakura was not gasping for breath as if there was no air flowing to her lungs when she was freed. She coughed as if there was some piece of Katsuyu still inside her lungs. Yet not gasping as if she was smothered.

Leading me to believe that Katsuyu keeps her wards alive by invasively making a path way down their throat, keeping it open to allow some form of air to enter.

Taken from

Naruto get dot com

Episode 162

At 18:04 (this website cuts out the openings and the endings so take that into account).

Now if you want to say she was still suffocating or holding her breath for so long that she coughs instead of gasps, you can do that. But I am fully convinced after watching the next best thing to the manga, that Katsuyu does provide oxygen of some sort to her wards.

 

[SASUKE IS ABOVE KAGE LEVE]

All hidan has to do is set up his ritual & taste her blood and the battles basically over.
Besides hidan can tank dismemberment & have his heart punctured last time i checked nobody else in the series can.

 

[aimop95]

All hidan has to do is set up his ritual & taste her blood and the battles basically over.
Besides hidan can tank dismemberment & have his heart punctured last time i checked nobody else in the series can.

Hidan can't be killed. Of course he can tank anything.

Dismemberment is the only way to stop him. And you have to kill Kakazu or anyone else who might want to sew him back together and stick him in a place he can't get out of first to truly stop him...

 

[Obito3631]

while I have no manga proof that there is a barrier or other seal inside the slugs. You cannot prove either that the slugs have no way of providing oxygen to their occupants. Just because Sakura came out coughing does not mean anything to help your point. She could have easily been coughing because of the dust in the air. You can interpret that she was suffocating that way inside the slug. But cannot actually disprove my assumption wrong. Only two people came out coughing after Pain's attack. Sakura and Iruka.

Iruka was already hurt, and he didn't come out coughing. He went "ugh" as if in pain. Not because he was suffocating for a minute.

I already gave my case about Sakura. There is a panal dedicated to showing the dusty aftermath right after her little coughing scene. That leads me to believe it was the dust making her cough.

Besides, you don't cough when you are being suffocated in an airless room, you gasp. Coughing is when you are trying to expel dust or some other invasive particle inside your lungs. If there truly was little to no air, she would have come out gasping. Not coughing.

No one else during any point came out of a slug gasping for breath because they were stuck inside it with little to no air (it was not shown).

If we really want to do this properly, You and I must go watch the anime and see how the animators interpreted being stuck in a slug. I will concede to you only if the animators prove your point.

Lol, it is common sense, there is no rational way someone can breath while being fully enveloped inside of a slug, I do not need any manga scan to prove my point as it is mere common sense. You are the one who would need to provide a scan proving they can actually breath.

in this manga scan you can also see Choji coughing, which further proves my point

Spoiler

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Was the dust concentrated in a single area? No, the panel showed that there was dust everywhere in the village, not just at the location where Sakura was.

You gasp when you haven't breathed for a long period of time, one cough when they are suffocating or almost died asphyxiated

The anime has never been cannon.

 

[SASUKE IS ABOVE KAGE LEVE]

Hidan is a severely underrated akatsuki member

 

[aimop95]

I love Ice Tea

Lol, it is common sense, there is no rational way someone can breath while being fully enveloped inside of a slug, I do not need any manga scan to prove my point as it is mere common sense. You are the one who would need to provide a scan proving they can actually breath.

in this manga scan you can also see Choji coughing, which further proves my point

Spoiler

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Was the dust concentrated in a single area? No, the panel showed that there was dust everywhere in the village, not just at the location where Sakura was.

You gasp when you haven't breathed for a long period of time, one cough when they are suffocating or almost died asphyxiated

The anime has never been cannon.

The anime has never been cannon? Wat. I don't understand that sentence or the logic behind it. I understand Fillers not being cannon in anime, but actual plot episodes? What?

Next to the author himself, the animators are the best interpretors of any manga. Why? Because they actually have to bring the anime to life.

Fans/audience members do not decide what is cannon or not. They can complain like hell about it. But they do not write the story. They merely enjoy it.

You still haven't provided me evidence that the same barrier inside the "hiding in a toad" jutsu is the same one or even remotely the same as the one Jiyra used to drag a path of Pain inside.

Give me hard evidence that they are the same. Not circumstantial or if a = b = c logic. You want hard evidence. I want hard evidence. You cannot present. Just like I cannot present.


Point is. Neither of us can disprove each other wrong with actual manga scans or even anime episodes. Which is what I'm asking.

You gasp when you haven't breathed in a long time. I'm sorry, but I believe that suffocating and being asphyxiated = not being able to breath.

Or am I wrong?

Episode 163 has various people emerging from slugs.

Despite what you think of the anime. The anime is canon until fillers show up.

 

[Obito3631]

The anime has never been cannon? Wat. I don't understand that sentence or the logic behind it. I understand Fillers not being cannon in anime, but actual plot episodes? What?

Next to the author himself, the animators are the best interpretors of any manga. Why? Because they actually have to bring the anime to life.

Fans/audience members do not decide what is cannon or not. They can complain like hell about it. But they do not write the story. They merely enjoy it.

You still haven't provided me evidence that the same barrier inside the "hiding in a toad" jutsu is the same one or even remotely the same as the one Jiyra used to drag a path of Pain inside.

Give me hard evidence that they are the same. Not circumstantial or if a = b = c logic. You want hard evidence. I want hard evidence. You cannot present. Just like I cannot present.


Point is. Neither of us can disprove each other wrong with actual manga scans or even anime episodes. Which is what I'm asking.

You gasp when you haven't breathed in a long time. I'm sorry, but I believe that suffocating and being asphyxiated = not being able to breath.

Or am I wrong?

The anime doesnt fully respect the manga, even if a scene in the anime looks relatively the same as in the manga its still not canon since Kishi did not make it, there are many inconsistency in the anime, it would be long to list all of them. Anime = non cannon so it cant be used a reference.

Kishi did not make the anime did he?

You just said it, you are not the one who decides what is canon, the anime not being cannon is a fact.

I have provided enough evidences proving Jiraiya was able to breathe inside the frog apart from common sense itself, reread my previous posts.

I guess I did not word that properly. You also cough when you are suffocating and nearly dying, that is.

 

[aimop95]

The anime doesnt fully respect the manga, even if a scene in the anime looks relatively the same as in the manga its still not canon since Kishi did not make it, there are many inconsistency in the anime, it would be long to list all of them. Anime = non cannon so it cant be used a reference.

Kishi did not make the anime now did he?

You just said it, you are not the one who decides what is canon, the anime not being cannon is a fact.

I have provided enough evidences proving Jiraiya was able to breathe inside the frog apart from common sense itself, I wonder if you can read at all, reread my previous posts.

I guess I did not word that properly. You also cough when you are suffocating and nearly dying, that is.

I have read all your posts. And I disagree with your use of A>B>C logic. I asked for manga scans. Like you did. you have not provided it. I did not ask for your logical process to arriving at things. Which is why when I first gave my opinion pages back, I said I wouldn't pursue this topic because ultimately, no one has any hard evidence. No actual scans to disprove each other wrong.

No one was suffocating to death inside Katsuyu, because if Sakura or Choji had been, she and he would have made mention of that.

A possible counter to this is that they were more grateful to Katsuyu saving them that they decided not to make mention of the fact they almost died inside a slug. But that would require them to know that they were in danger of being crushed before they were enveloped. No on shown on a scan realized what Pain did to their village until after the blast. So they had no idea why Katsuyu suddenly enveloped them (actually, no one saw that attack coming at all).

I would make the argument that the animators are much better interpretators then any fan when it comes to interpreting cannon. I trust their judgement over yours. Even if the animators are fans of the manga, they're fans that have the author's permission to interpret and have some degree of creative license.

Kishimoto also apparently trusts their judgement because he's allowing them to animate his manga without them adding to much or taking away to much from it's core plot.

On this note: I'm done with this argument. Neither of us can disprove each other using scans from the manga, which from the very start, I have asked for, and which none of us can give.

EDIT: You interpret coughing = no air inside a slug. I Interpret coughing = in a dust cloud caused by a nuke.

That's the most that this debate can lead too without the manga clearly showing that it was the slug or that it was the dust cloud that caused the coughing.

 

[Kages]

Sakura can pull it off.

 

[Obito3631]

I have read all your posts. And I disagree with your use of A>B>C logic. I asked for manga scans. Like you did. you have not provided it. I did not ask for your logical process to arriving at things.

No one was suffocating to death inside Katsuyu, because if Sakura or Choji had been, she and he would have made mention of that.

A possible counter to this is that they were more grateful to Katsuyu saving them that they decided not to make mention of the fact they almost died inside a slug. But that would require them to know that they were in danger of being crushed before they were enveloped. No on shown on a scan realized what Pain did to their village until after the blast. So they had no idea why Katsuyu suddenly enveloped them (actually, no one saw that attack coming at all).

I would make the argument that the animators are much better interpretators then any fan when it comes to interpreting cannon. I trust their judgement over yours. Even if the animators are fans of the manga, they're fans that have the author's permission to interpret and have some degree of creative license.

Kishimoto also apparently trusts their judgement because he's allowing them to animate his manga without them adding to much or taking away to much from it's core plot.

You need manga scan to know Jiraiya was able to breathe inside the frog during his journey? I don't even know what to say about this.

This does not make any sense, the village was ravaged, there are corpses laying around and you think their priority would be to announce the readers that they could not breathe inside Katsuyu?


I am almost certain they somewhat knew what was happening as they could probably hear it. And it is not like it was a sudden attack and everything was peaceful beforehand, the village was already under attack.

Fact is the anime cannot be used a a reference, the anime will never be identical to the manga. They add a lot of filler even during the canon scenes. A filler is something that did not occur in the manga, btw.

 

[aimop95]

You need manga scan to know Jiraiya was able to breathe inside the frog during his journey? I don't even know what to say about this.

No. But I will not accept the use of A>B>C evidence because that is a Non sequitur line of logic. And that can go nasty very fast.

This does not make any sense, the village was ravaged, there are corpses laying around and you think their priority would be to announce the readers that they could not breathe inside Katsuyu?

Yes, Why? because in such a time as this, who in their right mind wants to be suddenly swallowed by a slug with no warning whatsoever. They never saw that attack coming. They weren't expecting it. They didn't even know Pain was capable of pulling off an attack of such magnitude

I am almost certain they somewhat knew what was happening as they could probably hear it. And it is not like it was a sudden attack and everything was peaceful beforehand, the village was already under attack.

Refer to my updated post prior to this one.

Fact is the anime cannot be used a a reference, the anime will never be identical to the manga. They add a lot of filler even during the canon scenes. A filler is something that did not occur in the manga, btw.

Re-read my edits in my last post:

Fact is, I trust the anime's interpretation over anyone's logical interpretation because they have a contract with the author that allows them to add on to the existing manga.

 

[Curse Mark]

Going off the anime interpretation. It seems that Katsuyu enveloped Sakura's head completely. Yet Sakura was not gasping for breath as if there was no air flowing to her lungs when she was freed. She coughed as if there was some piece of Katsuyu still inside her lungs. Yet not gasping as if she was smothered.

Leading me to believe that Katsuyu keeps her wards alive by invasively making a path way down their throat, keeping it open to allow some form of air to enter.

Taken from

Naruto get dot com

Episode 162

At 18:04 (this website cuts out the openings and the endings so take that into account).

Now if you want to say she was still suffocating or holding her breath for so long that she coughs instead of gasps, you can do that. But I am fully convinced after watching the next best thing to the manga, that Katsuyu does provide oxygen of some sort to her wards.

Oh God this kid is using the anime. I got a good laugh outta this one.

Almost as annoying as "Go reread the post i edited" instead of just providing any new info in a new post.

 

[ToshiZO]

No. But I will not accept the use of A>B>C evidence because that is a Non sequitur line of logic. And that can go nasty very fast.




Yes, Why? because in such a time as this, who in their right mind wants to be suddenly swallowed by a slug with no warning whatsoever. They never saw that attack coming. They weren't expecting it. They didn't even know Pain was capable of pulling off an attack of such magnitude



Refer to my updated post prior to this one.


Re-read my edits in my last post:

Fact is, I trust the anime's interpretation over anyone's logical interpretation because they have a contract with the author that allows them to add on to the existing manga.

you might be right on the slug providing oxygen....but what good does that do in battle...thats like saying Obito can remain transparent for days..but if that was the case he would never lose a battle or get injured but we know thats not true he has to go on the offensive at some point. Retreating into a slug is like running away, when Sakura decides to attack she doesnt have any thing to take down Hidan thats the issue here...I think you guys are wasting too much time on something very useless lol even though you might be right.

 

[aimop95]

Oh God this kid is using the anime. I got a good laugh outta this one.

Almost as annoying as "Go reread the post i edited" instead of just providing any new info in a new post.

Anime is significantly more reliable interpretation of manga chapters than anyone in the fan base.

Especially on a really insignificant and rather silly argument as this. Considering what we are arguing.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Why is this thread even being dragged out

 

[aimop95]

Why is this thread even being dragged out

Because people apparently have time to kill.