[Discussion] Human-Human Fruit (Sengoku)

[Hori]

First off all I dunno whether a thread like this has been created or not but I guess I'll go with it, and I think maybe you've heard this before.

Comparason #1: vs Marco

I wonder how Sengoku's fruit is classified as a mythical Zoan type like Marco's? I understand Marco becomes a phoenix and thus an animal not a human here illustrated bellow:

Spoiler

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But Sengoku just becomes a giant Bhudha that spams shockwaves which that bhudha is still a human....

Spoiler

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So here is where my confusion starts; if we look at this wikia article:

Spoiler

"The users of Zoan class Devil Fruits gain the ability to transform into an animal (and acquire every ability affiliated with said animal). The user can also transform into a human-beast hybrid form. There are Zoan Devil Fruits not only for common animals, but for prehistoric or ancient animals and mythological creatures as well (ancient and mythological are rarer, with mythological said to be even rarer than some Logia Devil Fruits)."

We see that Marco's fruit is called mythical because it's a type of an animal that has never been seen or rarely seen in which it makes it a mythycal one. Now Moving onto Sengoku's its not even appropeate in my part for it to be called a zoan type because it is not an animal but just a human mythical creature so the "mythical part is cleared since Bhudhas are myths anyway. Now we are only left with the zoan type since Sengoku transforms as they do.

Comaprison #2: vs Chopper
Well we will get back to that bolded part later on I want us to look at this 1st:

Spoiler

"The Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Daibutsu (ヒトヒトの実 モデル：大仏 Hito Hito no Mi, Moderu: Daibutsu?)he main strength of this fruit is that it allows the user to transform into a giant, Buddha-like entity, gaining an extreme boost in strength to match his size. In this form, Sengoku's limbs grow out of proportion, giving him abnormally large arms and relatively tiny legs. "

Now we also know another person/animal that has this hito hito no Mi DF which Tony tony chopper.

Spoiler

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Now if we add all of this information Chopper's DF is classified as a carnivore zoan type but has the same name as Sengoku's DF. Now chopper's DF was called human-human just because he gained human abilities and shape shipting abilities while keeping his Identity as an animal. Sengoku became a mythical giant possessing no animal aspects but only shows stregth. Now because od the above analysis I believe that Sengoku's DF the human-human or hito-hito no Mi should be classified as logia DF not a Mythical Zoan DF, because logia DFs users are the only people that change the shape when using their DFs

Spoiler

Logia : (literally translated as "Nature System")

The rarest of the three classes, users of Logia Devil Fruits gain the ability to transform themselves into an element (making them intangible or indestructible, the exception being the Darkness Logia power which keeps the human body and makes the user more vulnerable towards pain). They also gain every ability related to that element and gain the skill to disperse, control and rejoin any part of their bodies while conscious and in control of their powers (including explosions, bullet wounds or cuts). Logia users can move every part of their transformed bodies while in element form.

Thanks for your time reading, so guys what do you think? Is

 

[Sir Blades]

Maybe God Fruit, or Deity Fruit, something along those lines.

 

[Sherlock.]

I'm not sure but Sengoku's might be Mythical Zoan....

 

[Hori]

I'm not sure but Sengoku's might be Mythical Zoan....

well yeah that is what the SBS Volume 60 says but if you look at aspects listed above you would see It doesn't fall to the category

Maybe God Fruit, or Deity Fruit, something along those lines.

Lol as if something like that is allowed...

 

[Pekoms]

The notion of Sengoku's DF being that of the logia class doesn't exactly make sense.
You've quoted what defines a logia type but Sengoku's abilities hardly resemble those described.

Note: Buddha is a Sanskrit word that means "awakened one."
Those who have realized the enlightenment that ends the cycle of birth and death, which brings liberation from suffering.

Given that logias must be natural elements, what would you suppose his is? Enlightenment?

Your reasoning for why Chopper's DF was classified as a zoan type also doesn't make sense.
Humans are animals, just as much as any other creature, hence why he's in the category.​

 

[foxyladyland]

Well Logia (nature) is somewhat affiliated with Buddha as they are spiritual and like with mother nature(earth).
Mythical part is also sort of spiritual because I guess its supernatural.
beasts are sometimes considered transformed or mutated "anything" from a *creature?* idk heh
but wow you sure are like a little genius or something weeeeeeeeeee:bouncy:

but humans animals mammals

 

[~Zonta~]

• Sengoku's is Mythical Zoan type and the name of his fruit is Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Daibutsu. meaning Human" model giant Buddha.
  
  
• Mythical Zoan type are rarity and the unique powers it bestows upon the user. They allow users to transform into mythological creatures which may have special abilities that are comparable to Paramecia and Logia Devil Fruits
  
  
• and one more important point here humans are classified as animals so its not much of a big deal.

either way it was nice read and good find .... Plus rep.

 

[Hori]

The notion of Sengoku's DF being that of the logia class doesn't exactly make sense.
You've quoted what defines a logia type but Sengoku's abilities hardly resemble those described.

Note: Buddha is a Sanskrit word that means "awakened one."
Those who have realized the enlightenment that ends the cycle of birth and death, which brings liberation from suffering.

Given that logias must be natural elements, what would you suppose his is? Enlightenment?

Your reasoning for why Chopper's DF was classified as a zoan type also doesn't make sense.
Humans are animals, just as much as any other creature, hence why he's in the category.​

• Sengoku's is Mythical Zoan type and the name of his fruit is Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Daibutsu. meaning Human" model giant Buddha.
  
  
• Mythical Zoan type are rarity and the unique powers it bestows upon the user. They allow users to transform into mythological creatures which may have special abilities that are comparable to Paramecia and Logia Devil Fruits
  
  
• and one more important point here humans are classified as animals so its not much of a big deal.

either way it was nice read and good find .... Plus rep.

You are forgetting something logia works as a nature system I believe Sengoku does uses light and air as one of his abilities.

I mean if you know all the properties of logia users you would know that at least certain Logia users can also control their respective elements that are not generated from their own bodies, but are already preexisting within the environment.

 

[Pekoms]

You are forgetting something logia works as a nature system I believe Sengoku does uses light and air as one of his abilities.

I mean if you know all the properties of logia users you would know that at least certain Logia users can also control their respective elements that are not generated from their own bodies, but are already preexisting within the environment.

A logia type can't possibly use more than one element, so that means he can't have both light and air.
Not to mention, Kizaru already has light... Really, I don't see how a shockwave was even reminiscent of Kizaru's attacks.
Sengoku's attack had more in common with the Gura Gura no Mi than any logia type.​

 

[foxyladyland]

its called i dont give a fruit.!!

don't do that -_- !!!.........:devil:

ot: this is a really neat topic, but im humans and animals are alike ; some are more sophisticated.
so size and growth is affiliated with ?anything? so maybe it would be mythical zoan
although I was thinking logia they change shape when using df. is that the same as growing?

 

[~Zonta~]

You are forgetting something logia works as a nature system I believe Sengoku does uses light and air as one of his abilities.

I mean if you know all the properties of logia users you would know that at least certain Logia users can also control their respective elements that are not generated from their own bodies, but are already preexisting within the environment.

Let me make it clear here Marcos fruit's power also has the additional powers it grants and considered as :-

• similar to Paramecia :- regeneration ability he has.
• similar to Logia :- the blue phoenix flames that makes him seem somewhat intangible.

Similarly sengoku must be having the ability to use the light like Kizaru does and may be he is able to manipuate the air around his hands sending it out with a force enough to create shock waves.

 

[Hori]

A logia type can't possibly use more than one element, so that means he can't have both light and air.
Not to mention, Kizaru already has light... Really, I don't see how a shockwave was even reminiscent of Kizaru's attacks.
Sengoku's attack had more in common with the Gura Gura no Mi than any logia type.​

Mmm... those are good points you made but yeah it did but it still had light too let me elaborate how this happens.... They can accomplish so by utilizing their own element from their own body and add it with the preexisting source, augmenting their already powerful force to higher and more versatile levels, which in this case its light or shine which is incorporated from his body and he fuses it with the air particles and then generates a shock-wave. that is one of the reasons why BB could oppose it because Sengoku's shock waves are a mixture like sand and iron fillings ... I f you were to explain to me how Sengoku uses those shock waves?

don't do that -_- !!!.........:devil:

ot: this is a really neat topic, but im humans and animals are alike ; some are more sophisticated.
so size and growth is affiliated with ?anything? so maybe it would be mythical zoan
although I was thinking logia they change shape when using df. is that the same as growing?

well that is hard to answer since logia DF users return to original shape once not using their fruit, I'm saying its logia just because if I look at how Zoans types are explained it makes you believe zoans are human-beast hybrids meaning it has to be a beast and a human fused together, on the other hand a Buddha cannot be classified as a beast that is why I didn't wanna touch that part earlier .

 

[Hori]

Let me make it clear here Marcos fruit's power also has the additional powers it grants and considered as :-

• similar to Paramecia :- regeneration ability he has.
• similar to Logia :- the blue phoenix flames that makes him seem somewhat intangible.

Similarly sengoku must be having the ability to use the light like Kizaru does and may be he is able to manipuate the air around his hands sending it out with a force enough to create shock waves.

thank you for clarifying that out now I have a even better picture of this... and thanks on agreeing with me on the part about Sengoku

 

[Pekoms]

well that is hard to answer since logia DF users return to original shape once not using their fruit, I'm saying its logia just because if I look at how Zoans types are explained it makes you believe zoans are human-beast hybrids meaning it has to be a beast and a human fused together, on the other hand a Buddha cannot be classified as a beast that is why I didn't wanna touch that part earlier .

What does your guessing really change? Humans are animals and Bhudda are mythically considered enlightened humans.
Whether or not Sengoku looks like a "beast", he still changes into an animal, though the changes aren't drastic.

Zoans are nothing more than animal to animal transformations. Nothing you can bring up changes anything I've mentioned.
What he manipulates is of little matter, otherwise Marco would be a logia type, given his body of blue flames.​

 

[Lili-Chwan]

Okay... so, first of all, to clear things up:

Human Human Fruit and Human Human Fruit: Model Gread Buddha are two different devil fruits with no relation to eachother, other than being both Zoan type and having the same name. It was already explained before, although you might not have paid attention, but despite having the same core name, the Zoan Models are different fruit, not sub-species of a same fruit.

Secondly, a Zoan fruit is a fruit that grants you the ability to assume the shape of another animal, or an hybrid between your normal form and the actual beast. This is a no brainier for any "normal" animal, such as a Cat or a Bison. A Human, although I'm sure I'm bursting your bubble there, is an animal all the same. It's a rational animal to the rest of the "irrational" ones, but an animal nonetheless. In addition to everyday animals, there also exist fruits that allow you to transform into extinct animals, like Dinossaurs. These are very rare, because, like the animals themselves, they are presumed to be extinct too, but, like the animals themselves, they can be found in some isolated islands in the Grand Line, where evolution or other phenomenons did not force them to vanish.

And thirdly, there are the Mythical Zoan, which grant you the ability to turn into a non-existing animal, or at least an animal from "ancient" stories and imaginations. We've witnessed two, the first being a Phoenix, a mythical bird. It allows you to turn into a flying animal, but with the addition of having your body made of regeneration flames.

And there is Sengoku's Mythical Zoan, which allows him to turn into a Buddha statue, a mythical human.Why do I say mythical human? Well, this Buddha is not a spiritual guide made "saint" nor an inanimate statue. It's a sentient deity, modeled after us, humans, but a deity nonetheless, like a phoenix is modeled after a bird, but a fantasy creature nonetheless. As such, he gets a golden color and the strength of a giant statue, as well as the power of the shock waves.

As for a Logia. They are the ability to turn your body into an element. An element, Gas, Light, Mud, Fire, etc. Not simply produce a substance, actually turn their body into it. There's no such thing as a Rat element, or a Zebra element. They change your body into a Rat or a Zebra, but it's not like you can shoot Zebras from your hands. They are not element, which is detrimental for a Logia. Likewise, it's not because your body's texture changed, like Blade, Rubber, etc, that you become a Logia. Paramecia can either allows you to produce something, Wax, Poison, Noro/Slow Beam, they can affect your body, changing it's properties, Rubber, Blade, Slide, Spring, etc. But they cannot turn you into an actual element.

So, I hope it clears out some of the monkeys in your head.

 

[kmrasengan]

Okay... so, first of all, to clear things up:

Human Human Fruit and Human Human Fruit: Model Gread Buddha are two different devil fruits with no relation to eachother, other than being both Zoan type and having the same name. It was already explained before, although you might not have paid attention, but despite having the same core name, the Zoan Models are different fruit, not sub-species of a same fruit.

Secondly, a Zoan fruit is a fruit that grants you the ability to assume the shape of another animal, or an hybrid between your normal form and the actual beast. This is a no brainier for any "normal" animal, such as a Cat or a Bison. A Human, although I'm sure I'm bursting your bubble there, is an animal all the same. It's a rational animal to the rest of the "irrational" ones, but an animal nonetheless. In addition to everyday animals, there also exist fruits that allow you to transform into extinct animals, like Dinossaurs. These are very rare, because, like the animals themselves, they are presumed to be extinct too, but, like the animals themselves, they can be found in some isolated islands in the Grand Line, where evolution or other phenomenons did not force them to vanish.

And thirdly, there are the Mythical Zoan, which grant you the ability to turn into a non-existing animal, or at least an animal from "ancient" stories and imaginations. We've witnessed two, the first being a Phoenix, a mythical bird. It allows you to turn into a flying animal, but with the addition of having your body made of regeneration flames.

And there is Sengoku's Mythical Zoan, which allows him to turn into a Buddha statue, a mythical human.Why do I say mythical human? Well, this Buddha is not a spiritual guide made "saint" nor an inanimate statue. It's a sentient deity, modeled after us, humans, but a deity nonetheless, like a phoenix is modeled after a bird, but a fantasy creature nonetheless. As such, he gets a golden color and the strength of a giant statue, as well as the power of the shock waves.

As for a Logia. They are the ability to turn your body into an element. An element, Gas, Light, Mud, Fire, etc. Not simply produce a substance, actually turn their body into it. There's no such thing as a Rat element, or a Zebra element. They change your body into a Rat or a Zebra, but it's not like you can shoot Zebras from your hands. They are not element, which is detrimental for a Logia. Likewise, it's not because your body's texture changed, like Blade, Rubber, etc, that you become a Logia. Paramecia can either allows you to produce something, Wax, Poison, Noro/Slow Beam, they can affect your body, changing it's properties, Rubber, Blade, Slide, Spring, etc. But they cannot turn you into an actual element.

So, I hope it clears out some of the monkeys in your head.

First of all I completely agree with what you said.

Second: @bold that would be awesome.

 

[Hori]

What does your guessing really change? Humans are animals and Bhudda are mythically considered enlightened humans.
Whether or not Sengoku looks like a "beast", he still changes into an animal, though the changes aren't drastic.

Zoans are nothing more than animal to animal transformations. Nothing you can bring up changes anything I've mentioned.
What he manipulates is of little matter, otherwise Marco would be a logia type, given his body of blue flames.​

well Ifact that is not a guess but a postulation of what I came up when I read the explanation of zoans... it states clearly that:

"The users of Zoan class Devil Fruits gain the ability to transform into an animal (and acquire every ability affiliated with said animal). The user can also transform into a human-beast hybrid form. There are Zoan Devil Fruits not only for common animals, but for prehistoric or ancient animals and mythological creatures as well"

so tell me where does the Buddha fall into those green words?

 

[Pekoms]

well Ifact that is not a guess but a postulation of what I came up when I read the explanation of zoans... it states clearly that:

"The users of Zoan class Devil Fruits gain the ability to transform into an animal (and acquire every ability affiliated with said animal). The user can also transform into a human-beast hybrid form. There are Zoan Devil Fruits not only for common animals, but for prehistoric or ancient animals and mythological creatures as well"

so tell me where does the Buddha fall into those green words?

The mythological creature part...

Creatures are defined as animals and humans happen to be animals.
Therefore, following incredibly simple logic, Bhudda fits the category.​

 

[Pervy Wrath]

Why are you making it so difficult? It's a Mythical Zoan, simple as that. If it was a Logia, he would be able to disperse when attacks come at him. The reason why Choppers' and Sengoku's DFs both are called Hito Hito is because they are different editions, same like how Jyabura has the Wolf Zoan while Dalmatian has the Dalmatian Zoan.

 

[Hori]

Okay... so, first of all, to clear things up:

Human Human Fruit and Human Human Fruit: Model Gread Buddha are two different devil fruits with no relation to eachother, other than being both Zoan type and having the same name. It was already explained before, although you might not have paid attention, but despite having the same core name, the Zoan Models are different fruit, not sub-species of a same fruit.

take a look at this link

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took me a while to find it U_U

Secondly, a Zoan fruit is a fruit that grants you the ability to assume the shape of another animal, or an hybrid between your normal form and the actual beast. This is a no brainier for any "normal" animal, such as a Cat or a Bison. A Human, although I'm sure I'm bursting your bubble there, is an animal all the same. It's a rational animal to the rest of the "irrational" ones, but an animal nonetheless. In addition to everyday animals, there also exist fruits that allow you to transform into extinct animals, like Dinossaurs. These are very rare, because, like the animals themselves, they are presumed to be extinct too, but, like the animals themselves, they can be found in some isolated islands in the Grand Line, where evolution or other phenomenons did not force them to vanish.

As far Sengoku's fruit is concerned, these are the speculated possibilities.
Sengoku ate a fruit that allows him to turn into a giant (the race human). A Zoan
Sengoku ate a fruit that allows him to turn into a Buddha (since he's shiny he and uses air shockwaves). A paramecia
Sengoku ate a fruit that alters his size to that of a giant. A logia
Sengoku ate a fruit that transforms him into a giant statue. A logia

as you can see most supports logia U_U

And thirdly, there are the Mythical Zoan, which grant you the ability to turn into a non-existing animal, or at least an animal from "ancient" stories and imaginations. We've witnessed two, the first being a Phoenix, a mythical bird. It allows you to turn into a flying animal, but with the addition of having your body made of regeneration flames.

Buddha isn't an animal or a mythical creature, he is a human. Humans are called animals when it comes to biology where terms like Homosapien come but we are humans! So if it exists a Buddha fruit, it might as well exists an Albert Einstein fruit or a Napoleon fruit. And besides, Chopper already ate a human fruit. It's not like there is zoan fruits for individual representatives from a race, it's just the race itself.

And there is Sengoku's Mythical Zoan, which allows him to turn into a Buddha statue, a mythical human.Why do I say mythical human? Well, this Buddha is not a spiritual guide made "saint" nor an inanimate statue. It's a sentient deity, modeled after us, humans, but a deity nonetheless, like a phoenix is modeled after a bird, but a fantasy creature nonetheless. As such, he gets a golden color and the strength of a giant statue, as well as the power of the shock waves.

As for a Logia. They are the ability to turn your body into an element. An element, Gas, Light, Mud, Fire, etc. Not simply produce a substance, actually turn their body into it. There's no such thing as a Rat element, or a Zebra element. They change your body into a Rat or a Zebra, but it's not like you can shoot Zebras from your hands. They are not element, which is detrimental for a Logia. Likewise, it's not because your body's texture changed, like Blade, Rubber, etc, that you become a Logia. Paramecia can either allows you to produce something, Wax, Poison, Noro/Slow Beam, they can affect your body, changing it's properties, Rubber, Blade, Slide, Spring, etc. But they cannot turn you into an actual element.

So, I hope it clears out some of the monkeys in your head.

1st of all there is no such thing as a mythical human U_U I dunno where you took it from, also I will tell you what a real Buddha is but 1st tell me how does a "mythical zoan" spam a shockwave?