What Evidence Do We Have That Suggest Yata Mirror Is Not Invincible?

[The Necromancer]

Absence of proof isn't proof? You're using that in the wrong context. Yata's lack of feats is not proof of it's invincibility.

The databook also implied a potential weakness. It said that Yata changes it's properties to negate a single attack, it says nothing of multiple attacks. If one's a fuuton and the other's taijutsu, then it can only stop one.

Besides, the shield itself may or may not be invincible, but it can't save it's user from everything. Just look at Captain America, he's gifted with an invincible shield but that doesn't make himself invincible.



Indeed.



This is true.

Gaara's sand is stated as the ultimate defense, does that make it > Yata Mirror?



This is something everyone needs to remember when trying to argue no-limit fallacies.

The whole "multiple attacks" theory of defeating yata mirror is pure BS and everyone knows it. The distinction between saying it can block "any attack" and saying it can block "any attacks" is so minimal, and anyone who uses this as a weakness is just grasping at straws. Lava is a single attack which can be blocked, but fire and earth separately can't? Doesn't make much sense.

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

The whole "multiple attacks" theory of defeating yata mirror is pure BS and everyone knows it. The distinction between saying it can block "any attack" and saying it can block "any attacks" is so minimal, and anyone who uses this as a weakness is just grasping at straws. Lava is a single attack which can be blocked, but fire and earth separately can't? Doesn't make much sense.

If it's so minimal, why does it make such a huge difference? It's right there in the databook, it can only stop singular attacks. Why does it bother you that Yata could have a weakness? Itachi even said that everyone and everything has a weakness, or is Itachi the only character that's not allowed to have any weaknesses?

Or it's stopping lava because it IS a singular attack, but if two separate fire and earth attacks are launched then it can only block one. It's perfectly logical and is a reasonable weakness.

 

[The Necromancer]

If it's so minimal, why does it make such a huge difference? It's right there in the databook, it can only stop singular attacks. Why does it bother you that Yata could have a weakness? Itachi even said that everyone and everything has a weakness, or is Itachi the only character that's not allowed to have any weaknesses?

Or it's stopping lava because it IS a singular attack, but if two separate fire and earth attacks are launched then it can only block one. It's perfectly logical and is a reasonable weakness.

First of all yata mirror is not a jutsu, it's a tool. Secondly i know itachi's weaknesses, he's not a god and i'm not an illogical fanboy, thirdly, it is not logical that a shield could block a single attack of fire and earth, but not two singular attacks of fire and earth combined.

 

[Kage of the Hood]

.. obito can phase thru the mirror..... s/t techniques penetrate so it's not invincible.... since we're not talking bout itachi genjutsu penetrates also

 

[magus zeal]

itachi even said every jutsu has a weakness
/thread

 

[Westside]

Evidence?
Well he is dead.
And Madara was alive when Itachi died...oh wait

 

[Booker]

itachi even said every jutsu has a weakness
/thread

Too bad Yata Mirror isn't a jutsu.

 

[Kage of the Hood]

??
Back to the topic of using common sense and deductive reasoning


Kakashi has implied in the manga that basic rasengan can kill someone
Yet in the manga thus far it hasn't

does that mean that since it hasn't so far it's incapable of doing such a thing?

don't be ridiculous, that logic will get you no where in naruto, the inference that a proposition stating yata can deflect elemental attacks or rasengan can kill is false from the fact that neither of which have been proven to be true or known to be true is a complete and utter logical fallacy ....Although most arguments involve claims that its premises provide evidence directly correlating with the truth of its conclusion, only deductive reasoning involves a claim that its premise requires CONCLUSIVE proof... In cases like these, with yata mirror and rasengan require more inductive arguments, not that the premises give conclusive evidence , but that they provide SOME evidence for it, with inductive reasoning the validity of the argument would be decided based on the overall likelihood and probability of the conclusion ...

As a debater, you're supposed to use BOTH inductive and deductive reasoning when developing and formulating arguments..

We can sit here all day and argue about hard core fact... but once again, I draw you back to my original proposition , that you utilize common sense in your arguments.. taking in all other factors .. for eg, the fact that Sasuke's "chidori", simply a less concentrated form of raikiri , failed to fully cut through the raikage's armour

Naruto killed tendo with rasengan.... jus saying

 

[Owarij]

Naruto killed tendo with rasengan.... jus saying

tendo is already dead,

but if two separate fire and earth attacks are launched then it can only block one. It's perfectly logical and is a reasonable weakness.

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"Attributes of the attack"

I hope i don't need to give you an english lesson on what that means...

 

[Strict]

Databook claims
Kumai: You cannot defend against it, no matter what

Manga claims
One of the 7 Swords mens sword breaks Any and all defenses

Databook claims
Kakashi's raikiri can cut Anything

It's a hyperbole the same as the statements i just said. While i Agree it most likely can deflect most attacks a "normal" shinobi can use.

But when you take it out of "shinobi" realms such as Mountain busters, Juubi and so on it gets kinda hard to believe.



No it's not.

Madara has susanoo, So he must have Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi according to the databook. Yet zetsu said "We might finally get to see amaterasu". Now why would Zetsu (madara as you like to call him) be so keen to see a jutsu he already knows about and has seen?.

That was mere hype. As for the Yata mirror however, there was left an explicit description of its properties and how it goes to counter the respective attacks. The same goes for its counterpart, the Totsuka blade that was described as a sword that is imbued with the perfect sealing Jutsu, able to seal away those who get pierced in an eternal Genjutsu. Therefore an Edo, even if it was an Uzumaki and wielder of the Rinnegan, began to dissolve right after being pierced.

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

First of all yata mirror is not a jutsu, it's a tool. Secondly i know itachi's weaknesses, he's not a god and i'm not an illogical fanboy, thirdly, it is not logical that a shield could block a single attack of fire and earth, but not two singular attacks of fire and earth combined.

First of all it's a magical tool... but what is magic in the Narutoverse? Jutsu.

Secondly, if that's the case then I will take you more seriously than I do some others.

Thirdly, why not? It's changing it's attributes to block a single attack, in this case it's lava. But if it's limitation is one attack, then it can only choose to block the fire or the earth, most likely choosing whichever of the two is more powerful.
The Narutoverse also possesses an elemental wheel, like most forms of fiction does: Fire > Wind > Lightning > Earth > Water. I think Pokemon will serve as the best example of what I want to get at. Dual-natured Pokemon, they possess the strengths and weaknesses of both elements. So take Kabutops, it's dual Rock and Water. Normally water Pokemon are resistant to water attacks, but rock is weak to water attacks, which makes Kabutops weaker against other water-type Pokemon. See what I'm getting at? If Yata could take on both attributes to stop both attacks, then it would also gain the strengths and weaknesses of both attributes. So however you look at it, Yata's not invincible, there are logical weaknesses. A fundamental rule is that nothing is perfect.

tendo is already dead,

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"Attributes of the attack"

I hope i don't need to give you an english lesson on what that means...

Attributes of the attack. Singular.

 

[Owarij]

First of all it's a magical tool... but what is magic in the Narutoverse? Jutsu.

Secondly, if that's the case then I will take you more seriously than I do some others.

Thirdly, why not? It's changing it's attributes to block a single attack, in this case it's lava. But if it's limitation is one attack, then it can only choose to block the fire or the earth, most likely choosing whichever of the two is more powerful.
The Narutoverse also possesses an elemental wheel, like most forms of fiction does: Fire > Wind > Lightning > Earth > Water. I think Pokemon will serve as the best example of what I want to get at. Dual-natured Pokemon, they possess the strengths and weaknesses of both elements. So take Kabutops, it's dual Rock and Water. Normally water Pokemon are resistant to water attacks, but rock is weak to water attacks, which makes Kabutops weaker against other water-type Pokemon. See what I'm getting at? If Yata could take on both attributes to stop both attacks, then it would also gain the strengths and weaknesses of both attributes. So however you look at it, Yata's not invincible, there are logical weaknesses. A fundamental rule is that nothing is perfect.



Attributes of the attack. Singular.

Dust release, is ONE attack, composed of several Attributes ( elements)

and it clearly states the shield change its ATTRIBUTES

 

[Exaar]

That was mere hype. As for the Yata mirror however, there was left an explicit description of its properties and how it goes to counter the respective attacks. The same goes for its counterpart, the Totsuka blade that was described as a sword that is imbued with the perfect sealing Jutsu, able to seal away those who get pierced in an eternal Genjutsu. Therefore an Edo, even if it was an Uzumaki and wielder of the Rinnegan, began to dissolve right after being pierced.

Yata's "deflects all attacks" is Mere hype. Yata has no feats to back this Up.
Itachi didn't pull it out when threatened by chibaku tensei to protect Naruto/Bee, He didn't use it Against white rage Nor Sound Genjutsu.
All the feats Yata has if Defending against Kunai/explosive tags/Sasuke's sword.

According to Kumai's databook entry, There is no defense against it No matter what, So even Yata's attribute changes won't have an effect, Judging by that entry.

I don't see what Yata could to do Stop Sound based attacks, Light based attack (like white rage) and so on. Yata nor Susanoo is sound/Light proof

 

[Prince Charles]

Yata's "deflects all attacks" is Mere hype. Yata has no feats to back this Up.
Itachi didn't pull it out when threatened by chibaku tensei to protect Naruto/Bee, He didn't use it Against white rage Nor Sound Genjutsu.
All the feats Yata has if Defending against Kunai/explosive tags/Sasuke's sword.

According to Kumai's databook entry, There is no defense against it No matter what, So even Yata's attribute changes won't have an effect, Judging by that entry.

I don't see what Yata could to do Stop Sound based attacks, Light based attack (like white rage) and so on. Yata nor Susanoo is sound/Light proof

i think your taking the whole ''defending against all attacks'' too literal, i think the attack actually has to come in contact with the yata mirror itself, of course attacks like white rage and other sound best attack cant be defended against the yata mirror since those attack arent physically coming into contact with the mirror itself.

Also in the manga it shows the mirror repelling and pushing back orochimaru's great white snakes.

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that scan alone showing the snakes getting pushed back and repelled by the yata mirror backs up the hypes stated by the DB, does it not?

 

[KidGamer65]

When it comes to Yata Mirror's abilities. This is the only panel that matters, the panel that clearly describes its abilities is fact.

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Invincible is just pure hyperbole. Nothing is invincible no matter how hyped up it is.

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

That was mere hype. As for the Yata mirror however, there was left an explicit description of its properties and how it goes to counter the respective attacks. The same goes for its counterpart, the Totsuka blade that was described as a sword that is imbued with the perfect sealing Jutsu, able to seal away those who get pierced in an eternal Genjutsu. Therefore an Edo, even if it was an Uzumaki and wielder of the Rinnegan, began to dissolve right after being pierced.

Yata was given mere hype as well. Hell, even after the Yata was revealed, Gaara's sand is still called the ultimate defense.

Dust release, is ONE attack, composed of several Attributes ( elements)

and it clearly states the shield change its ATTRIBUTES

It changes it's attributes to stop a SINGLE attack.

Why are you also ignoring everything else I said relating to this in that post?

Also, why is it such a big deal to anyone that Yata has a weakness?

i think your taking the whole ''defending against all attacks'' too literal, i think the attack actually has to come in contact with the yata mirror itself, of course attacks like white rage and other sound best attack cant be defended against the yata mirror since those attack arent physically coming into contact with the mirror itself.

Also in the manga it shows the mirror repelling and pushing back orochimaru's great white snakes.

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that scan alone showing the snakes getting pushed back and repelled by the yata mirror backs up the hypes stated by the DB, does it not?

Indeed. The shield isn't some ward like Shinra Tensei, it can only stop what clashes with the shield.

I don't believe Yata is pushing back Yamata no Orochi there, just rather the heads are bouncing off Yata. That's what happens, an action is met with an equal or opposite reaction.

Here's an example of what I mean:

[video=youtube;Tt6C6P3bJq8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt6C6P3bJq8[/video]

 

[Prince Charles]

Yata was given mere hype as well. Hell, even after the Yata was revealed, Gaara's sand is still called the ultimate defense.



It changes it's attributes to stop a SINGLE attack.

Why are you also ignoring everything else I said relating to this in that post?

Also, why is it such a big deal to anyone that Yata has a weakness?



Indeed. The shield isn't some ward like Shinra Tensei, it can only stop what clashes with the shield.

I don't believe Yata is pushing back Yamata no Orochi there, just rather the heads are bouncing off Yata. That's what happens, an action is met with an equal or opposite reaction.

Here's an example of what I mean:

[video=youtube;Tt6C6P3bJq8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt6C6P3bJq8[/video]

Regarding the snake whats getting pushed back is irrelevant, it could be the head or body of the snake but its still getting repelled and pushed back which only furthers backs up the yata mirrors hype in the DB. I believe the yata mirror's explained hype in the databook is valid until proven otherwise.

 

[Owarij]

I don't believe Yata is pushing back Yamata no Orochi there, just rather the heads are bouncing off Yata. That's what happens, an action is met with an equal or opposite reaction.

You clearly see the snakes attack the stationary shield, and are literally repelled.. the direction of their force is completely changed.. some snakes are sent up, some sent down..

That's not how a normal shield defends..
a normal shield

It changes it's attributes to stop a SINGLE attack.

Why are you also ignoring everything else I said relating to this in that post?

Also, why is it such a big deal to anyone that Yata has a weakness?

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This is how a normal shield defends

I don't know what part of plural attributes you don't get.. all kkg attacks are still one attack, and it can defend against attacks by changing each of its attributes depending on the attack incoming

Noone is denying yata may have a weakness, the argument is that the weakness YOU claim is incorrect

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

Regarding the snake whats getting pushed back is irrelevant, it could be the head or body of the snake but its still getting repelled and pushed back which only furthers backs up the yata mirrors hype in the DB. I believe the yata mirror's explained hype in the databook is valid until proven otherwise.

I didn't see Yamata's body pushed back, the heads that did reach Susanoo were severed. I also didn't see Yamata's heads bouncing off Yata like ping pong balls, they collided with Yata. You can believe what you wish, but it's not substantial for certain debates.

You clearly see the snakes attack the stationary shield, and are literally repelled.. the direction of their force is completely changed.. some snakes are sent up, some sent down..

That's not how a normal shield defends..
a normal shield




I don't know what part of plural attributes you don't get.. all kkg attacks are still one attack, and it can defend against attacks by changing each of its attributes depending on the attack incoming

Noone is denying yata may have a weakness, the argument is that the weakness YOU claim is incorrect

As I said above, I did not see the heads being repelled, I see them being stopped. Unless you can show me Yamata's heads being thrown back like a Shinra Tensei. The direction of their force is completely changed because of physics. Like throwing a water balloon, it's going to burst when it hits something, not because that thing is magical, but because of physics. The water balloon cannot move that object and the force gets displaced, causing the water balloon to pop.

You're using an example of a chakra shield stopped spears as evidence? Last I checked, Yamata's heads aren't sharp and can't stick to an object like nails in a wall.

A kkg attack is a singular attack, two different attacks are not a kkg. That's the flaw in your argument.

However, they are denying the potential logical weaknesses and claiming invincibility until a weakness is shown, which will arguably be never since it was only used once to stop some physical attacks and is now gone perhaps forever. It lacks feats to display it's weaknesses, but it also lacks feats to support it's hype. It's ambiguous and people are playing off of it's ambiguity to support no-limit fallacies.

 

[TheSages456]

madara who has knowledge of the yata mirror says that the blade of PS destroys everything in the universe which includes the yata mirror.