[VS] Sasori VS Kakuzu

[Zexion~]

You are acting like kakuzu's threads barely have any range ? When the do ..they have a

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as a matter of fact And you assume A large iron sand would catch kakuzu when it could not even touch sakura? like i said anything big enough to pin him down would be launched right back at Sasori ..

and the masks do not need to leave his body to use jutsu

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Would clear the gas AND press an offense against sasori which he would then have to counter with your Iron sand defense that he has never shown to use.. However he does not have the 3rd eye jutsu so he cant see whats going on .. kakuzu could easily hide

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underground to surprise sasori even making a move on his heart.

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which was a

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was easily smashed by kakuzu .. his punching the iron sand back with ease ..

Kakuzu was also shown to be a cautionary fighter ..(Sasori actually has a few reckless feat's by sending his third puppet to kill sakura instead of just using iron sand... Also leaving kankuro alive) Meanwhile kakuzu placed a counter to a jutsu that had not even been

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[Edo Odin]

You are acting like kakuzu's threads barely have any range ? When the do ..they have a

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as a matter of fact And you assume A large iron sand would catch kakuzu when it could not even touch sakura? like i said anything big enough to pin him down would be launched right back at Sasori ..

The threads have long range, but Sasori, who's fighting style revolves around attacking from a distance, can simply back away from the threads.

You don't seem to be getting my point with the Iron Sand pinning him down. I'm not saying that he will approach him with the large Gathering Assault, I'm saying that he will approach him with an attack like the Iron Sand Drizzle, which would be countered by Doton Domu, and then form the Gathering assault around Kakuzu. Say what you will, Kakuzu is not bouncing back bullets.

and the masks do not need to leave his body to use jutsu

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Would clear the gas

In this form, the masks aren't protected by the Doton Domu, meaning that they're vulnerable to any attack Sasori throws at them.

AND press an offense against sasori which he would then have to counter with your Iron sand defense that he has never shown to use..

Carefully read

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page, and carefully note the part where it says 'It can be formed into any shape the caster desires'. Creating a simple wall out of the Iron Sand would be an effective counter to any elemental blast aimed at Sasori.

However he does not have the 3rd eye jutsu so he cant see whats going on .. kakuzu could easily hide

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underground to surprise sasori even making a move on his heart.

And what do you propose he does with that arm? He has absolutely zero knowledge on the Core in Sasori's chest, so no, he wouldn't make a move on his heart.

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which was a

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was easily smashed by kakuzu .. his punching the iron sand back with ease ..

Again, I'm not saying that Sasori would use the Gathering Assault on Kakuzu himself.

Kakuzu was also shown to be a cautionary fighter ..(Sasori actually has a few reckless feat's by sending his third puppet to kill sakura instead of just using iron sand... Also leaving kankuro alive) Meanwhile kakuzu placed a counter to a jutsu that had not even been

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His decision was based on the fact that everything pointed to Sakura being half dead at that part. Even with that hving been said, this decision didn't affect Sasori too much, as he wasn't risking himself, but rather only the puppet. In no way does this mean that Sasori would suddenly decide to charge in against Kakuzu, so I don't really get the point of this post.

 

[Zexion~]

The threads have long range, but Sasori, who's fighting style revolves around attacking from a distance, can simply back away from the threads.

You don't seem to be getting my point with the Iron Sand pinning him down. I'm not saying that he will approach him with the large Gathering Assault, I'm saying that he will approach him with an attack like the Iron Sand Drizzle, which would be countered by Doton Domu, and then form the Gathering assault around Kakuzu. Say what you will, Kakuzu is not bouncing back bullets.
In this form, the masks aren't protected by the Doton Domu, meaning that they're vulnerable to any attack Sasori throws at them.
Carefully read

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page, and carefully note the part where it says 'It can be formed into any shape the caster desires'. Creating a simple wall out of the Iron Sand would be an effective counter to any elemental blast aimed at Sasori.

And what do you propose he does with that arm? He has absolutely zero knowledge on the Core in Sasori's chest, so no, he wouldn't make a move on his heart.

Again, I'm not saying that Sasori would use the Gathering Assault on Kakuzu himself.

His decision was based on the fact that everything pointed to Sakura being half dead at that part. Even with that hving been said, this decision didn't affect Sasori too much, as he wasn't risking himself, but rather only the puppet. In no way does this mean that Sasori would suddenly decide to charge in against Kakuzu, so I don't really get the point of this post.

My computer cut me off -_- i had a point but i thought better of it ..

Anyways i don't understand how kakuzu gets trapped under Iron Sand after chouji's spiky human boulder ( which is a lot of pressure to be on someone) he was not laying down . nor was he even moved he was still standing upright . So why would iron sand make him fall completely.. ? this does not make sense ..how is he trapped whats It would simply have the same effect slamming two iron substances .. it would just ricochet of Unless you mean that the iron sand in its regular shape would act as a blanket?

Like i said kakuzu would figure it out eventually .. And you are completely underestimating the hearts Evasiveness they were easily able to avoid

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which is about the size of sasori's gathering assault .. And his bullets would have to be precisely aimed at the masks for hitting the threaded part of the body would do nothing..And seeing how the hearts move rather quickly (especially the wind heart ) It would be rather easy to avoid His bullets/spears... And when sasori uses World order it takes a few second to activate it Kakuzu would simply blast the Puppet With his

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Rendering his iron sand useless ... It actually took a little while for his iron sand to be brought out in the first place.. what stops kakuzu one shotting it right then and there? Hell sasori may not even begin with iron sand !?!.. but ill say he does ...

 

[The Dragon Abadon]

Sasori wins.... Sasori has 3rd kazekage.... 100 puppets show..... Himself.... Kakazu isn't stronger than deidra.... N sasori cuts through kakazus iron skin with his iron sand.

 

[- Їиfєяио -]

sasori wins high diff​

 

[Izuna Kakashi Senju]

Kakuzu, mid-difficulty.

Iron Skin negates Sasori's entire arsenal
High-scale elemental attacks destroy his puppets
Manipulation of five elements ? Iron sand is bound to be weak to one of them.

Technically Kakuzu has manipulation of four elements as he only used Suiton in the anime and hasn't used it in the manga but I agree that one of the element is bound to be strong against Iron Sand.

 

[Edo Odin]

My computer cut me off -_- i had a point but i thought better of it ..

Anyways i don't understand how kakuzu gets trapped under Iron Sand after chouji's spiky human boulder ( which is a lot of pressure to be on someone) he was not laying down . nor was he even moved he was still standing upright . So why would iron sand make him fall completely.. ? this does not make sense ..how is he trapped whats It would simply have the same effect slamming two iron substances .. it would just ricochet of Unless you mean that the iron sand in its regular shape would act as a blanket?

You really are not getting my point. Imagine this:

1) Sasori and Kakuzu stand against each other, Sasori uses something like

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2) Kakuzu defends against it using Doton Domu, tanking the attack.
3) Sasori, noticing that the previous attack is ineffective, decides to have his Iron Sand stick to Kakuzu, and hardens it around his body, like he did against

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and her

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. However, this time it'd be on a larger scale, allowing him to completely cover Kakuzu's body, by forming something like

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, all around his body, aside from the head.
4) The result would be something like

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.

Now how would Kakuzu react to this? He hasn't been shown using the masks abilities when they're sealed in his body, and when he's covered in a pile of Iron Sand, he's not getting out, meaning that he can't do anything to prevent the Poison Gas from taking him out.

Like i said kakuzu would figure it out eventually .. And you are completely underestimating the hearts Evasiveness they were easily able to avoid

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which is about the size of sasori's gathering assault ..

In no way did they avoid that attack. They tanked it, and managed to do that because Choji didn't bother to aim for the masks themselves, a mistake someone as intelligent as Sasori wouldn't make.

And his bullets would have to be precisely aimed at the masks for hitting the threaded part of the body would do nothing..And seeing how the hearts move rather quickly (especially the wind heart ) It would be rather easy to avoid His bullets/spears...

I'm not the one underestimating them, you're the one who's overestimating them, and to a great extent to be honest. In no way has it ever been implied that the masks are fast enough to avoid an attack that broke the

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. Stating that is ridiculous.

And when sasori uses World order it takes a few second to activate it Kakuzu would simply blast the Puppet With his

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Rendering his iron sand useless ... It actually took a little while for his iron sand to be brought out in the first place.. what stops kakuzu one shotting it right then and there? Hell sasori may not even begin with iron sand !?!.. but ill say he does ...

Why thank you. To repay you, I'll say that Kakuzu starts of by releasing his masks, something that your arguments have revolved a lot around, when he wasn't even shown doing that when he was facing a Bijuu in it's full form.

It works both ways.

 

[Zexion~]

You really are not getting my point. Imagine this:

1) Sasori and Kakuzu stand against each other, Sasori uses something like

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2) Kakuzu defends against it using Doton Domu, tanking the attack.
3) Sasori, noticing that the previous attack is ineffective, decides to have his Iron Sand stick to Kakuzu, and hardens it around his body, like he did against

You must be registered for see links

and her

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. However, this time it'd be on a larger scale, allowing him to completely cover Kakuzu's body, by forming something like

You must be registered for see links

, all around his body, aside from the head.
4) The result would be something like

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.

Now how would Kakuzu react to this? He hasn't been shown using the masks abilities when they're sealed in his body, and when he's covered in a pile of Iron Sand, he's not getting out, meaning that he can't do anything to prevent the Poison Gas from taking him out.

Besides his head.. ohh i see now .. Although you said after a world order attack? .. that would take a while for the sand to turn back into A great gathering (Around kakuzu) .. As kakuzu was able to release domu and move again

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So Sasori taking advantage of kakuzu's stilllnes in domu is really

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Also so your saying the inside would be hollow for kakuzu's body to simply be trapped ? .If It indeed would be hollow an Iron skin Punch would be able to break through as like i showed before it was shown to break a sealed IRON wall

In no way did they avoid that attack. They tanked it, and managed to do that because Choji didn't bother to aim for the masks themselves, a mistake someone as intelligent as Sasori wouldn't make.

How would he know not to make the mistake ? The only reason kakashi did not was because he saw one of them

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before the fight .. And from sasori's "long range" it would be hard to pin-point exactly to hit the masks and sasori would make the mistake of simply aiming for the body at least once as i stated above. and i have no idea where you got that it broke the sound barrier for if that were true if something breaks the sound barrier and it is as close as sakura and chiyo were.. they would have absolutely NO time to lift there arms .

I'm not the one underestimating them, you're the one who's overestimating them, and to a great extent to be honest. In no way has it ever been implied that the masks are fast enough to avoid an attack that broke the

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. Stating that is ridiculous.

What makes you think that it is breaking the sound barrier there... No where in the data book does it say that they do which if they did .. it would be a pretty important detail to notice..That could just be illustrating the magnetic forces launching them

Why thank you. To repay you, I'll say that Kakuzu starts of by releasing his masks, something that your arguments have revolved a lot around, when he wasn't even shown doing that when he was facing a Bijuu in it's full form.

It works both ways.

Not sure if sarcasm or..0.o but if not thanks... although maybe because the bijuu slammed a fist on him .
Although you did not counter the false darkness to the 3rd plan ...

Btw i dont want this to get nasty (which i usually do in kakuzu debates) .. XD js

 

[Zexion~]

Technically Kakuzu has manipulation of four elements as he only used Suiton in the anime and hasn't used it in the manga but I agree that one of the element is bound to be strong against Iron Sand.

Although he is from the Water fall village.. not sure what country its in but sounds waterish to me .. and before he had the other 4 elements . he was able to go toe to toe with hashirama.

*edit-Not an actual argument .. haha im jk

 

[RicardoA]

Although he is from the Water fall village.. not sure what country its in but sounds waterish to me .. and before he had the other 4 elements . he was able to go toe to toe with hashirama.

*edit-Not an actual argument .. haha im jk

Mother of God
He SURVIVED the fight against a holding back Hashi. Had Hashi went all out and Kakuzu would be stomped hard.
I'm assuming it but keep in mind Hashi was holding back against EMS Madara + Kurama. Only after Kurama was cloaked with PS he decided to use his full power. Kakuzu is nowhere near EMS Madara, let alone him + Kurama.

Edit: then i saw it wasn't an actual argument Lol

 

[Edo Odin]

Besides his head.. ohh i see now .. Although you said after a world order attack? .. that would take a while for the sand to turn back into A great gathering (Around kakuzu) .. As kakuzu was able to release domu and move again

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So Sasori taking advantage of kakuzu's stilllnes in domu is really

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But just like he did with Chiyo's puppets, he can have the sand that lands on Kakuzu stick to him, and simply add more and more. It might take a bit of time, but each hit would slow Kakuzu down a bit more, and give Sasori a better chance of adding to the Sand.

Also so your saying the inside would be hollow for kakuzu's body to simply be trapped ? .If It indeed would be hollow an Iron skin Punch would be able to break through as like i showed before it was shown to break a sealed IRON wall

But that isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying that the sand will completely cover Kakuzu's body, restricting his every movement, much like how Gaara uses the Sand Coffin.

How would he know not to make the mistake ? The only reason kakashi did not was because he saw one of them

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before the fight .. And from sasori's "long range" it would be hard to pin-point exactly to hit the masks and sasori would make the mistake of simply aiming for the body at least once as i stated above. and i have no idea where you got that it broke the sound barrier for if that were true if something breaks the sound barrier and it is as close as sakura and chiyo were.. they would have absolutely NO time to lift there arms .

What makes you think that it is breaking the sound barrier there... No where in the data book does it say that they do which if they did .. it would be a pretty important detail to notice..That could just be illustrating the magnetic forces launching them

But it's simply common sense. If the first hit is ineffective, since it would only hit the threads, of course he is going to aim for the masks instead of the bodies, and that's only assuming that the masks would not have already gotten hit in the flurry of bullets, which is highly unlikely.

The most likely solution is that Chiyo already raised her hand, since she had info on the jutsu, but however I can't pprove it. However, it doesn't change the fact that the Iron Sand is truly immensely fast, fast enough to actually get up the power to create holes in the ground/walls of the Rocky Cave. There's nothing that suggests that the masks have the speed to avoid something like that.

Not sure if sarcasm or..0.o but if not thanks... although maybe because the bijuu slammed a fist on him .
Although you did not counter the false darkness to the 3rd plan ...

Btw i dont want this to get nasty (which i usually do in kakuzu debates) .. XD js

The counter to the False Darkness would be to simply be the first one to attack, or to stay out of distance. An example would be using the Iron Sand to keep the masks busy, or resorting to a technique like the Performance of a Hundred.

Don't worry, this doesn't have to get nasty, debates are simply made to have fun xD

 

[Zexion~]

But just like he did with Chiyo's puppets, he can have the sand that lands on Kakuzu stick to him, and simply add more and more. It might take a bit of time, but each hit would slow Kakuzu down a bit more, and give Sasori a better chance of adding to the Sand.

But that isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying that the sand will completely cover Kakuzu's body, restricting his every movement, much like how Gaara uses the Sand Coffin.

But it's simply common sense. If the first hit is ineffective, since it would only hit the threads, of course he is going to aim for the masks instead of the bodies, and that's only assuming that the masks would not have already gotten hit in the flurry of bullets, which is highly unlikely.

The most likely solution is that Chiyo already raised her hand, since she had info on the jutsu, but however I can't pprove it. However, it doesn't change the fact that the Iron Sand is truly immensely fast, fast enough to actually get up the power to create holes in the ground/walls of the Rocky Cave. There's nothing that suggests that the masks have the speed to avoid something like that.


The counter to the False Darkness would be to simply be the first one to attack, or to stay out of distance. An example would be using the Iron Sand to keep the masks busy, or resorting to a technique like the Performance of a Hundred.

Don't worry, this doesn't have to get nasty, debates are simply made to have fun xD

Alright too lazy to put it in one counter at a time format lol so

If he simply does just do one at a time the counter would be to simply leave the range of the magnetic field the sand would fall off .. also im fairly certain it cant stick to humans .. or it would of stuck to sakura all those times she was punching it back .. in fact it doesnt even STICK to puppets

Spoiler

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It simply enters the crevices that are all over puppets rendering them useless .. so Saying it can stick to things is a little bit of a stretch

Also im not saying the masks avoid them completely .. its just if he indeed attacks the head with a super fast iron sand attack they simply need to move an inch so instead of hitting the mask it would simply hit the threads .. which if chiyo could get an arm up then nudging a little to move the impact to the threads should not be too much of a problem .. not to mention the wind heart could simply fly over it or stay in the air the whole time

Yes but which is faster ? False darkness takes no prep and was shot to outspeed an opening of a scroll ... meanwhile the iron sand still has to leak out of the 3rd before then being formed ... imo the false darkness would hit first ..

and there is no way he can controll the 3rd and the 100 puppets.. It would reduce the control of the iron sand to almost laughable since when he uses 100 puppets the more he has the less control he has over each of them individually

 

[Edo Odin]

Alright too lazy to put it in one counter at a time format lol so

If he simply does just do one at a time the counter would be to simply leave the range of the magnetic field the sand would fall off .. also im fairly certain it cant stick to humans .. or it would of stuck to sakura all those times she was punching it back .. in fact it doesnt even STICK to puppets

Spoiler

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It simply enters the crevices that are all over puppets rendering them useless .. so Saying it can stick to things is a little bit of a stretch

Actually, it has been canonically confirmed that it does stick to puppets, due to Kazekage's magnetic ability. Read

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page and note the 'As long as I have the Sandaime's Magnetic ability with me, that thing is useless'. This is confirmed yet again when Chiyo is able to use her

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again after the Kazekage has been destroyed. So yes, the Iron Sand does stick to things, because of the Sandaime.

And since we don't know the limit of this magnetic field, it can't really be used. It could be 50 meters, it could be 5.000.

Also im not saying the masks avoid them completely .. its just if he indeed attacks the head with a super fast iron sand attack they simply need to move an inch so instead of hitting the mask it would simply hit the threads .. which if chiyo could get an arm up then nudging a little to move the impact to the threads should not be too much of a problem .. not to mention the wind heart could simply fly over it or stay in the air the whole time

If Sasori isn't aware of the masks being the core, he wouldn't be aiming specifically for them, meaning that he'd shimply shoot randomly, so in that case, moving wouldn't help too much, since they might as well just be moving towards the bullets/spears.

If he does realize that the masks are the most important thing (Which is very likely, since he can simply see that it's the masks that are sealed in Kakuzu's body, the threads are just extra), he'd solely aim at the masks but not the bodies, meaning that they wouldn't have a chance to move away from it, he wouldn't allow it.

Flying would also not be a good idea at all, since that would simply make it an easier target, since in that case, moving away would be a lot tougher.

Yes but which is faster ? False darkness takes no prep and was shot to outspeed an opening of a scroll ... meanwhile the iron sand still has to leak out of the 3rd before then being formed ... imo the false darkness would hit first ..

My point was that Sasori would bring out the Kazekage before Kakuzu brings out the masks, which I feel is quite likely, since he was shown to release them almost immediately after the destruction of Hiruko, which would likely occur pretty early in the match. Meanwhile, Kakuzu didn't bring out the masks until pretty late in the fight.

and there is no way he can controll the 3rd and the 100 puppets.. It would reduce the control of the iron sand to almost laughable since when he uses 100 puppets the more he has the less control he has over each of them individually

I meant that he'd pull back the Kazekage and release the Hundred puppets in order to gain advantage in numbers, when he sees Kakuzu pull out the hearts. I obviously didn't mean using both at a time, that'd be ridiculous xD

 

[Zexion~]

Actually, it has been canonically confirmed that it does stick to puppets, due to Kazekage's magnetic ability. Read

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page and note the 'As long as I have the Sandaime's Magnetic ability with me, that thing is useless'. This is confirmed yet again when Chiyo is able to use her

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again after the Kazekage has been destroyed. So yes, the Iron Sand does stick to things, because of the Sandaime.

And since we don't know the limit of this magnetic field, it can't really be used. It could be 50 meters, it could be 5.000.

If Sasori isn't aware of the masks being the core, he wouldn't be aiming specifically for them, meaning that he'd shimply shoot randomly, so in that case, moving wouldn't help too much, since they might as well just be moving towards the bullets/spears.

If he does realize that the masks are the most important thing (Which is very likely, since he can simply see that it's the masks that are sealed in Kakuzu's body, the threads are just extra), he'd solely aim at the masks but not the bodies, meaning that they wouldn't have a chance to move away from it, he wouldn't allow it.

Flying would also not be a good idea at all, since that would simply make it an easier target, since in that case, moving away would be a lot tougher.

My point was that Sasori would bring out the Kazekage before Kakuzu brings out the masks, which I feel is quite likely, since he was shown to release them almost immediately after the destruction of Hiruko, which would likely occur pretty early in the match. Meanwhile, Kakuzu didn't bring out the masks until pretty late in the fight.

I meant that he'd pull back the Kazekage and release the Hundred puppets in order to gain advantage in numbers, when he sees Kakuzu pull out the hearts. I obviously didn't mean using both at a time, that'd be ridiculous xD

Flying an easier target? .. not when it would be shooting wind jutsu at you ( i think we all know how big pressure damage is no need for scans.)

Also He did not pull out his masks because he was busy he was caught in shadow possession, then being attacked by hidan,then being boulderd over and then finally stabbed by lightning blade he released his heart's first chance he could .. it does take time however so i suppose the iron sand would be already out by the time his masks are .

you said in an earlier post that sasori would use iron sand world order as a attack on one of the masks .. which looks like

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there is no sand able to defend from a attack .. sasori would easily be vulnerable to

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and it even is able to create TWO lightning strikes which means it could strike at both the 3rd and Sasori .. even if he could defend with the sand there is no way it can defend both at the same time meanwhile

come on at least say you know that the hearts would fodderize the 100 puppets in an instant pressure damage would be able to take out a considerable ammount .. then fire style would do the rest Kakuzu's huge AoE make the 100 puppets a non factor here

Honsestly if kakuzu is able to attack first sasori would never really be able to do all your saying .. hed be using his iron sand on defense the whole time ..and his chakra strings can't extend through a wall of iron sand so if he does use that as a defense he would have to form a wall around him and the puppet .. taking more time .. seeing as his puppet is usually floating a few meters above him ..

Also as a counter to your poison gas when he is trapped theory as i said waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy back on my first post were not even sure kakuzu has normal organs ... as you see in the picture i posted its simply threads

 

[Edo GwemBaba]

Fire mask and Ligtning mask would De-magnetise the Iron Sand, it's as simple as that.

Futon: Atsugai would sever all chakra threads.
What good is a puppet without strings?