Sasuke (Beggining of Part 2) vs Tsunade

[KidGamer65]

That moment when you see that someone used your point

Lmao, you put it in perfect words lol. My bad.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

Lmao, you put it in perfect words lol. My bad.

I didn't mean it like that xD I just got that pheel.

 

[Fire Lord Azula]

tsunade mid diff
and kid gamer said tsunade could beat taka sasuke
but loose to hebi lmao

 

[Tazzilla88]

Sasuke went into his fight with Itachi fully prepared to use Kirin, even without knowledge of Amaterasu. The Databook entry of Katon: Gōryūka No Jutsu also alludes to its atmosphere changing heat.

Amaterasu simply heated up the atmosphere further and made Kirin more destructive. Without Amaterasu's heat it would be weaker, yet Sasuke was still banking on its speed and power without Amaterasu.



Depends on how she hits it.

If she hits it on the flat side if the blade then it will shatter. If she hits the edge while Chidori is being run through it then it will simply slice through he arm.



That won't help against reality simulation Genjutsu. She won't even know she's in it, nor will Katsuya.



Sasuke is faster (Much more so when he uses the Curse Seal), Has Sharingan Pre-Cog, and has a better style of Taijutsu.

She won't and can't hit him.

------

Manda deals with any Katsuyu Daibunretsu



The only way I see for her to win is to outlast him while doing all she can to avoid decapitation.




It was never stated that Tsunade couldn't die. Her power is limited to high speed regeneration, it doesn't increase her durability and she can't recover from instantaneous death.

So let's establish that Manda neither likes Sasuke and wouldn't voluntarily fight for him. Which means to summon him would be a large expenditure of chakra at which point he would have to spend more chakra to control Manda.

Amaterasu allowed the atmosphere to be heated up quicker which allowed for Sasuke to use it quicker however, with regular Katons it would take longer to heat up the atmosphere.

Manda is the weakest of the sannin summons. There is nothing he can actually do to Katsuyu. Nothing. Whereas he can be killed a few ways.

Tsunade and Katsuyu will not realize that Tsunade's in genjutsu. Katsuyu who wouldn't realize if Tsunade suddenly stopped acting in a way fitting for the situation. And Tsunade who wouldn't realize if her slug stopped performing it's duties despite their apparent psychic connection? Okay.

I believe we all know how swords work. I know you can't hit the sharp side explaining that seems a bit patronizing.


So let's see your arguing that Sasuke will summon Manda, and put him under genjutsu. Which will cost Manda his life. Either one could Katsuyu or Tsunade could kill Manda.
You tend to think a Katsuyu who can divide into over 10,000 minis will not be able to completely impede all of Sasuke's movements.

You brought the databook up so I would like to point out that in the databook I would like to point out he only has 3.5 in taijutsu, and only a 4 in genjutsu. Tsunade has a 5 in taijutsu and and 3.5 in genjutsu. He is a tier faster than her but that wouldn't matter so much considering the difference in CQC levels.

That said, I abhor using databook stats so let's abstain from that. Sharingan precognition doesn't stop Kakashi from being hit, nor does it stop him from being hit by Bee. Why? Because pre-cog can't necessarily predict what's coming next it gives you hints based on the muscles that are being used. That means even sharingan users can be hit. Being faster than someone doesn't mean you can hit them. (Hidan and Shikamaru). Being Slower doesn't mean you can't hit them (Choji and Asuma). What he has at this level really isn't enough.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

:sy: Seriously?

Mate, Sasuke can't prep Kirin by himself. He ran out of chakra during his and Itachi's fight and he had a huge Amaterasu burning forest to help him prep it.

Even then, Lightning burns, it does not decompose. Theoretically Byakugou can tank a lightning bolt.

Hell, there were humans that survived being struck by lightning, and they didn't have the most haxxed regeneration technique ever. She was sliced in two with a giant sword. Any human would die from that since the Spine-Brain connection was turned to mush, yet Tsunade still had the power to summon Katsuyu and heal the other Kages.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

So let's establish that Manda neither likes Sasuke and wouldn't voluntarily fight for him. Which means to summon him would be a large expenditure of chakra at which point he would have to spend more chakra to control Manda.

It's all worth it as Manda humiliates Katsuya.

*Edit: Sasuke doesn't have Manda here. This is Begining of Part 2 Sasuke, thus doesn't have a Snake summoning contract. So I conceed this point. Sorry I didn't catch it earlier.

Amaterasu allowed the atmosphere to be heated up quicker which allowed for Sasuke to use it quicker however, with regular Katons it would take longer to heat up the atmosphere.

No. In Katon: Goōryūka's Databook entry it states as follows

Databook 3 - Katon: Gouryuuka no Jutsu:
Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique (火遁・豪龍火の術, Katon: Gouryuuka no Jutsu)
Ninjutsu, B-rank, Offensive, Supplementary, All ranges
User: Uchiha Sasuke

An ascending dragon of flames, consuming the enemy with sharp fangs burning brightly!!

Compressing a great amount of chakra build up inside the body and changing its shape into that of a blazing dragon. Then skilfully manipulating that great fire, one attacks the enemy before one's eyes! If this technique is mastered, it is also possible to fire off several flames after each other. Even outside of the attack range, its power and reliability are stressed. The flames have such a high temperature, they can create updraughts which in turn give rise to cumulonimbus clouds¹! The fate of the person caught in the dragon flame's sharp fangs is to be reduced to ashes in an instant...!!

The dragon's roar that even burns the Heavens!!

[picture of Sasuke using the Great Dragon Fire Technique]
[picture of Itachi barely evading the Great Dragon Fire Technique]
↑→The released flames are shaped into the form of a dragon and rush down on the target! The pursuit won't stop until the helpless target is consumed by flames!

¹ Cumulonimbus clouds are large, dark-grey rain clouds involved in thunderstorms and other intense weather.


This Jutsu alone suffices to create the neccesary clouds to create Kirin. It will be weaker but it will still have its 1 shot capabilities. This is backed by the fact that he was fully prepared to do it against Itachi. There's nothing to argue here.

Manda is the weakest of the sannin summons. There is nothing he can actually do to Katsuyu. Nothing. Whereas he can be killed a few ways.

Bro. Your Joking Right?

Manda was making Bunta and Katsuya look like children. In all honesty he can eat any Katsuyas like he had planned to before Bunta jumped in.

Tsunade and Katsuyu will not realize that Tsunade's in genjutsu. Katsuyu who wouldn't realize if Tsunade suddenly stopped acting in a way fitting for the situation. And Tsunade who wouldn't realize if her slug stopped performing it's duties despite their apparent psychic connection? Okay.

So now your asserting baseless assumptions. It's never implied that either can recognize the others chakra flow, no other characters and their summons have this ability either.
Only Jins have this ability.
I'm not sure you understand what reality simulation Genjutsu is. The victim still acts as they wish but The faster changes what they're are perceiving.

I believe we all know how swords work. I know you can't hit the sharp side explaining that seems a bit patronizing.

Well I find it highly unlikely that Tsunade will be able to land a blow on the side of the sword. Sasuke can also just utilize Chidori Kōken or Chidori Eisō.

So let's see your arguing that Sasuke will summon Manda, and put him under genjutsu. Which will cost Manda his life. Either one could Katsuyu or Tsunade could kill Manda.

Bro. Your Joking Right?

Manda has already shown superiority over Katsuya. Tsunade will be to busy dealing with Sasuke. Your also assuming that Tsunade will be able to summon Katsuya. If Sasuke wants he can just not allow her to do so. His Shunshin speed easily allows that.

You tend to think a Katsuyu who can divide into over 10,000 minis will not be able to completely impede all of Sasuke's movements.

What are you trying to say here? Manda already has Katsuya covered.

You brought the databook up so I would like to point out that in the databook I would like to point out he only has 3.5 in taijutsu, and only a 4 in genjutsu. Tsunade has a 5 in taijutsu and and 3.5 in genjutsu. He is a tier faster than her but that wouldn't matter so much considering the difference in CQC levels.

Databook stats are all unenhanced. They don't account for Sharingan, Shunshin, Raiton, and all the meat of Sasuke's arsenal. It's also been shown in the manga that linear Taijutsu is a bad idea against a Sharigan user. Especially when the Sharingan user is faster.

Tsunade's Taijutsu style also has her putting her whole body behind her attacks, this leaves her wide open when she misses.

That said, I abhor using databook stats so let's abstain from that. Sharingan precognition doesn't stop Kakashi from being hit, nor does it stop him from being hit by Bee. Why? Because pre-cog can't necessarily predict what's coming next it gives you hints based on the muscles that are being used. That means even sharingan users can be hit. Being faster than someone doesn't mean you can hit them. (Hidan and Shikamaru). Being Slower doesn't mean you can't hit them (Choji and Asuma). What he has at this level really isn't enough.

Bee used an attack that had multiple "Hit Boxes" if you will. Bee was also much after than Tsunade and is more skilled in CQC.

Nothing you've shown even comes close to proving Tsunade can hit Sasuke. There's an overwhelming advantage for Sasuke here.

- Much Faster (Even more so when using CM1)
- Sharingan Pre-Cog (Even more useful against her linear style)
- Higher level of Skill in Taijutsu
- Has the addition of Raiton based attacks in CQC
- Has Kenjutsu

Sasuke's Arsenal is enough.

*Edit: Without Manda, Sasuke can't win.

Mate, Sasuke can't prep Kirin by himself. He ran out of chakra during his and Itachi's fight and he had a huge Amaterasu burning forest to help him prep it.

Even then, Lightning burns, it does not decompose. Theoretically Byakugou can tank a lightning bolt.

Hell, there were humans that survived being struck by lightning, and they didn't have the most haxxed regeneration technique ever. She was sliced in two with a giant sword. Any human would die from that since the Spine-Brain connection was turned to mush, yet Tsunade still had the power to summon Katsuyu and heal the other Kages.

As stated before, Sasuke can prep Kirin on his own. He went in fully prepared to do it without the help of Amaterasu. There's really no argument to be made for why he can't other than environment.

Tsunade doesn't have an icecubes chance in hell of surviving Kirin.

 

[Crazy Wolf]

Tsunade, no difficulty. This is the most pathetic version of part2 Sasuke.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

As stated before, Sasuke can prep Kirin on his own. He went in fully prepared to do it without the help of Amaterasu.

And yet he sacrificed the last of his chakra to prep it, even though a forest was already burning with Amaterasu.

Tsunade doesn't have an icecubes chance in hell of surviving Kirin.

I beg to disagree. Entering Katsuyu or Byakugou should save her. Byakugou reproduces cells as soon as they are burnt. Lightning does not disintegrate, it merely burns.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

And yet he sacrificed the last of his chakra to prep it, even though a forest was already burning with Amaterasu.

Depending in climate those alone can help form Kirin. As explained before, the Kirin he would have peeped on his own would have been weaker. Amaterasu mearly made it stronger.

I beg to disagree. Entering Katsuyu or Byakugou should save her. Byakugou reproduces cells as soon as they are burnt. Lightning does not disintegrate, it merely burns.

Kirin busted Through a mountain while going through A complete Susano'O and Yata Mirror.

There won't be anything left if her.

 

[KidGamer65]

Mate, Sasuke can't prep Kirin by himself. He ran out of chakra during his and Itachi's fight and he had a huge Amaterasu burning forest to help him prep it.

Even then, Lightning burns, it does not decompose. Theoretically Byakugou can tank a lightning bolt.

Hell, there were humans that survived being struck by lightning, and they didn't have the most haxxed regeneration technique ever. She was sliced in two with a giant sword. Any human would die from that since the Spine-Brain connection was turned to mush, yet Tsunade still had the power to summon Katsuyu and heal the other Kages.

Sasuke can't prep Kirin himself despite almost killing Team 7 with it?
Sasuke can't prep Kirin himself despite going into the battle knowing he would end up using it on Itachi hence the purpose of creating the jutsu?

I doubt it.

@bold: You did not just say this...I really hope this is a joke.

Go find me a human that survived this lightning bolt.

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Go find me a human that surivived a lightning bolt that did this to the top of a mountain.

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Why are you comparing lightning that did that much damage to a regular lightning bolt?

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Sasuke can't prep Kirin himself despite almost killing Team 7 with it?

I will request proof of that.

Sasuke can't prep Kirin himself despite going into the battle knowing he would end up using it on Itachi hence the purpose of creating the jutsu?

Big difference between a fully-blown thunderstorm Kirin and a Kirin he can set up on his own. ( if he even can do it at all ).

Go find me a human that surivived a lightning bolt that did this to the top of a mountain.

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Why are you comparing lightning that did that much damage to a regular lightning bolt?

Because Sasuke is incapable ( or secretly capable, since he has not shown it ) of using the large scale Kirin he used on Itachi.

The Katons he did there were nothing compared to the Amaterasu spam.

 

[KidGamer65]

I will request proof of that.

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Big difference between a fully-blown thunderstorm Kirin and a Kirin he can set up on his own.



Because Sasuke is incapable ( or secretly capable, since he has not shown it ) of using the large scale Kirin he used on Itachi.

The Katons he did there were nothing compared to the Amaterasu spam.

All he needs to do is fire more Katon, more Katon equals hotter atmosphere. He could only use that Fire Style once because he exhausted all of his chakra fighting Itachi. Something he won't even come close to doing when fighting Tsunade. You speak like a Kirin that large is needed to vaporize a single human being. The Large Scale one was overkill, it destroyed Itachi's Susanoo and left him on the ground. The fact it destroyed Susanoo shows that it is overkill. The one Sasuke was about to use on Team 7 would have one shotted all of them hence Orochimaru stopping him.

Not to mention this whole debate was about whether she can tank the Kirin used against Itachi. Not one set up on his own.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

All he needs to do is fire more Katon, more Katon equals hotter atmosphere. He could only use that Fire Style once because he exhausted all of his chakra fighting Itachi.

You forget Sasuke had Oro's cells inside him at the time. His chakra was way bigger than at the start of part 1.

There's also using Katsuyu as a shield.

 

[KidGamer65]

You forget Sasuke had Oro's cells inside him at the time. His chakra was way bigger than at the start of part 1.

There's also using Katsuyu as a shield.

He didn't implant Oro's cells into his body like Kabuto did. Why would it give him a significantly large charka boost if any at all? Not to mention Sasuke had to reserve some of his chakra so he could keep Oro suppressed. Meaning thats less chakra available for his use.

This is what happens when he tries to access larger reserves when having Oro inside him.

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Not to mention that Curse Mark is a pseudo Sage Mode. It gives Sasuke enhanced durability. more physical strength, enhanced jutsu (Stronger Katon) More chakra (More Katon).

That's implying she could react to Kirin which moves at lightning speed.

 

[Sea Of Thy Soul]

Kirin, GG.
Senbon, GG.
Nagashi, GG.
Sharp Spear, GG.
Chidori blitz, GG.
Kusanagi decapitation via blitzing, GG.
3t Genjutsu, GG.
Cm2, GG.
Movement Precognition, GG.
High level Katon, GG.
Lion Combo, GG.

 

[Arugon]

Bold is not a manga fact. If you really think that you are dumber than I thought.

Not gonna debate with a tard who think Tsunade can regenerate from Kirin. When Kirin hits her she is dead. You can't heal from instant death.

You are a complete and utter waste of flesh......

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[Slug Princess Tsunade]

You are a complete and utter waste of flesh......

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He thinks her hype isn't valid.

 

[KidGamer65]

You are a complete and utter waste of flesh......

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You are a massive retard. Only deluded fanboys believe this shit. If she can be killed she can die in battle. This is simply Tsunade hyping herself up and self hype is garbage.

Jinton can kill her, meaning she can die in battle.

Amaterasu can kill her meaning she can die in battle.

Its funny when Tsunadetards only bring up this garbage in battles where Tsunade stands a chance. Don't come at me with your shitty logic. Go show me a scan with definitive proof that she can never die in battle as long as she has chakra. I'll be waiting.

He thinks her hype isn't valid.

Cause it obviously isn't. Unless anyone has proof she can't die in battle all this is, is Tsunade hyping herself up. Unless anyone has proof they are simply talking out of their ass.

 

[Slug Princess Tsunade]

You are a massive retard. Only deluded fanboys believe this shit. If she can be killed she can die in battle. This is simply Tsunade hyping herself up and self hype is garbage.

Jinton can kill her, meaning she can die in battle.

Amaterasu can kill her meaning she can die in battle.

Its funny when Tsunadetards only bring up this garbage in battles where Tsunade stands a chance. Don't come at me with your shitty logic. Go show me a scan with definitive proof that she can never die in battle as long as she has chakra. I'll be waiting.



Cause it obviously isn't. Unless anyone has proof she can't die in battle all this is, is Tsunade hyping herself up. Unless anyone has proof they are simply talking out of their ass.

Last time I checked she was alive. Her hype is true until she dies in a battle - when her seal is active, ofc.

I couldn't find the respective databook page, but here is what the NWikia says about the CR:

The absolute pinnacle of medical ninjutsu, created by the greatest of medical ninja, Tsunade, it is the ultimate regeneration technique. By releasing the great volume of chakra stored in her forehead at once, the body's cell division is forcibly stimulated by proteins, reconstructing all organs and all tissues making up the human body. The technique itself does not regenerate the old cells, rather it hastens the creation of new ones through division. If this technique is used, a body whose vital organs are so gravely injured that it cannot bear it any longer will be instantly restored to its uninjured state. As long as Tsunade has chakra it is impossible for her to die by any means, as such she gains a form of "immortality" throughout the duration of the technique.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

He didn't implant Oro's cells into his body like Kabuto did.

He did. That's why he could summon snakes. If you have a contract holder's blood you can invoke his summons.