【NB Debate Tourney: Dr.Proof vs.Negative Knight】

[Optimistic]

Y'all don't cry when I blitz to the finals and spank everyone

I'm rooting for you,Puppy,Nk and 6-Path.
Can't wait for the results:bouncy:

 

[DrProof]

The wait is excrutiating.

 

[Edo Odin]

Y'all don't cry when I blitz to the finals and spank everyone

I'll make a deal with you. Vote4Rep

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I have to check out those debates.

And, I just started shipping Hidan x Scythe

You definitely should

Link me when you're done

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I'm rooting for you,Puppy,Nk and 6-Path.
Can't wait for the results:bouncy:

Actually, I'm not competing. Rooting for myself too though

:scorps:

 

[Shura]

You definitely should

Link me when you're done

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I will link you.

Eh, could you link me to the debates

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

I'm rooting for you,Puppy,Nk and 6-Path.
Can't wait for the results:bouncy:

Much appreciated brethren

I'll make a deal with you. Vote4Rep

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Oh you... it's a deal

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[Edo Odin]

I will link you.

Eh, could you link me to the debates

Here, all threads were posted by Tragic [

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]

 

[Shura]

Here, all threads were posted by Tragic [

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]

Thanks. Now excuse me while I read those debates.

 

[Long Haired Leaf Ninja]

The wait is excrutiating.

I bet it is I said that earlier. I'm sure you r ready to find out who won.
It was really good though. You did way better with Sasori then I could of.

 

[Detective L]

---

Dr Proof​

​

1st Post​

• Your first post focused on Sasori rendering Samehada usless.Poison,which is coated on all of Sasori's weapons.
  You then on telling us that Samehada is a Symbiont:an organism living in symbiosis,Symbosis:
  Close association of animals or plants: a close association of animals or plants of different species that is
  often, but not always, of mutual benefit.Mutually beneficial relationship: a cooperative, mutually beneficial relationship between two people or groups.
  
  
• Your opening was pretty interesting,attacking Kisames' main defense and offense.
  
  
• I like the way you went straight to Sasoris' poison,which is known to be deadly.Going for the Samehada with the poison would put Kisame at a disadvantage.
  
  
• Kisame having information on Sasori's poison,no one knows,but it is plausible.If he knew,he wouldnt relentlessly put Samehada into danger.

2nd Post​

• Firstly,your rebuttal to Negative Knight's claim of regeneration of Samehada by Kisame against the poison of Sasori,was great.Sasori's poison was still the biggest problem for Kisame.
  
  
• You also brought up some scans that show that Kisame can't heal Samehada,like she can heal him,which means if the poison gets Samehada,its over.
  
  
• The speed of Sasori's Iron Sand was also shown,which is a rebuttal to Negative Knight as he said it was slow,this puts Kisame in great danger of getting touched,which could ultimately lead to his demise.
  
  
• You also stated that the Iron Sand can be used as defense against Suiton attacks.This depends on scale though.Kisame was shown to use large scale Suiton attacks without a water source.

3rd Post​

• Your 3rd post was not as good as the previous ones,especially the part of the diffussion.
  
  
• The main problem with your argument is,the poison on Sasori's weapons is not potent or in great enough quantity to diffuse in such a vast area and still be deadly.

---

Negative Knight​

1st Post​

• Your first post was a rebuttal to Dr.Proof,the regeneration of Kisame by Samehada is a fact,but how would Kisame heal Samehada if she was poisoned.The whole idea of healing the cells is a little far fetched as this poison was specially made.

2nd Post​

• Your second post was about the speed of the Iron Sand and it being linear.
  
• If the regeneration were possible,then it would not pose much of a threat,but the poison is said to be deadly.
  
  
• If we take Kisames' speed into account,its plausible that he could evade it but not without a scratch.

3rd Post​

• Close range fighting,all goes to Kisame.He was capable of fighting Gai,that already shows his skill.
  
• His immense chakra makes his clones formidable opponents.
  
  
• Sasori has no way of defeating Kisame when Water Prison has been used,Sasori also shows no feats to do so.
  
  
• The Water Prison is truly Kisames' trump card,as he is fast and practically untouchable underwater.

CONCLUSION​

In the end,both Dr.Proof and Negative Knight were truly great and worth their reputation on NarutoBase as debaters.Both did a good job and it was a hard decision for me to decide on who gets my vote.Thanks for the great debate.
My vote goes to Dr.Proof

Reason:The poison.As I said,its plausible that Kisame could have knowledge on it but we will never know.One scratch on either Kisame or Samehada could be the end for them.Kisame's speed alone can't really protect him against the Iron Sand.

 

[Long Haired Leaf Ninja]

I don't see how Kisame couldn't evade the iron sand. He could also use water based attacks or defense to slow down any attack. Also why couldn't he just use a water dome on himself to help slow down attacks and also dilude the poison.

 

[Curse Mark]

I don't see how Kisame couldn't evade the iron sand. He could also use water based attacks or defense to slow down any attack. Also why couldn't he just use a water dome on himself to help slow down attacks and also dilude the poison.

I think his water just isn't think enough to slow them down to the point where they'd stop moving. And the point would still be coming just slower and how would he dodge if there was no room to move in a water dome that small?

 

[Long Haired Leaf Ninja]

Who said it would be small it's been shown that he can summon large bodies of water outta no where.
Also if Sasori's attack was slower just a little it be easier to avoid.
The smaller the attack the faster Sasori attacks are example a needle would go faster then a huge spear. So Kisame would have a harder time avoiding those but the water would beanie to stop a small attack easier. So if Sasori used a large attack instead the water could be enough to slow it down or even deflect it enough that the attack will miss or make it easier to avoid.

 

[Shura]

Who said it would be small it's been shown that he can summon large bodies of water outta no where.
Also if Sasori's attack was slower just a little it be easier to avoid.
The smaller the attack the faster Sasori attacks are example a needle would go faster then a huge spear. So Kisame would have a harder time avoiding those but the water would beanie to stop a small attack easier. So if Sasori used a large attack instead the water could be enough to slow it down or even deflect it enough that the attack will miss or make it easier to avoid.

Sasori's Iron Sand coul break the sound wall. It isn't something you could easily avoid.

 

[Long Haired Leaf Ninja]

I'm sry but if Sakura can dodge/ dictate where it was going I see no reason Kisame can't.
I know she had help.
Quick question was Sakura able to punch the large spear iron sand objects?

 

[Shura]

I'm sry but if Sakura can dodge/ dictate where it was going I see no reason Kisame can't.
I know she had help.
Quick question was Sakura able to punch the large spear iron sand objects?

You're wrong again. Sakura wasn't able to dodge the Iron Sand shower and needles. Chiyo had to defend them both with her chakra shields.

 

[Long Haired Leaf Ninja]

That's true she was guarded.
My counter to that is to summon enuff water to place a large water dome around him self which would do to things slow down the attack and speed him up cuz he moves much faster under water also it even helps to dilude the posion.
Was Sakura able to punch the large iron sand objects? Can't remember.

 

[Frikid]

Predictions :

1st finalist : PDG
2nd : douryoku
3rd : drproof/NK/sasori
4th : owarij

 

[Negative Knight]

Is this tournament knock-outs o-o ?

 

[Frikid]

Is this tournament knock-outs o-o ?

All the details of the tourny are given in

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thread.

 

[~Uzumaki~]

Dr's opening argument:

Your point about Samehada being alive and therefore could be poisoned was commendable. Taking advantage of Kisame's preference for close combat using Samehada in order to inflict poison was also a good move there.


NK's opening argument:

I was impressed with your post. You showed how Kisame's water techniques would overwhelm Hiruko and force him to make use of the Third Kazekage. Then continuous use of water techniques, combined with sharks and the like would definitely put great strain on Sasori.

However, there were two flaws to your argument:

First of all, Kisame is unable to make use of of the water dome using his normal chakra levels. It was after he had eaten a significant amount of the Eight Tails chakra that he could create such a large dome. Even when the Raikage's group found Kisame and Bee, Shee(the chakra sensor) said that they were located due to Kisame's careless use of the Eight Tails chakra.

Also, Kisame and Samehada being immune to poison due to ability to regenerate cells is a stretch. Even if the cells affected are killed and replaced, the poison will remain in the blood stream and kill more cells as they are formed. The posion will keep circulating the body and destroying cells.

Also, Sasori's poison caused Kankuro to initially faint. This means that the poison reduced the pressure of his blood(hypotension) stopping blood from reaching his brains thereby causing syncope(fainting) Even if cells are regenerated, they would still need oxygen to survive and if the blood can't get the oxygen to the cells in his brain, then surely he would still faint. It might take longer but it will happen.

Lastly, let's not forget that Kankuro was writhing in pain due to the poison.

Lastly, Sakura, upon being stabbed by one of Sasori's poisoned blades, found it difficult to control her chakra and start healing the wound(she mentioned this herself) This entails that Sasori's poison can inhibit chakra control.

Sasori mentioned that the body instantly becomes numb and immobile when poisoned. For it to cause paralysis, this means that it interferes with the nervous system, cutting off connection between brain and the rest of the body.


So a poisoned Kisame is a guy who will be paralyzed, in agony, on the brink of fainting, and unable to properly use jutsu. Sound's pretty bleak if you ask me U_U

It would have been more advantageous to argue Kisame avoiding the poison entirely.


Dr Proof's rebuttal


You argued pretty well. I like that you emphasized on Sasori's Iron Sand; how fast its attacks are, the fact that he can repeatedly use them. The forging of Iron Sand into a wall or sheild is also commendable.

The rest of your argument however concentrated on defending against water dome. A tech which Kisame can't use in this situation. The Osmosis counter was kinda cool. If a scratch of one weapon can bring the full effects of the poison, then the dissolving of all Sasori's poisons in the water, and subsequent diffusion into Kisame's gills could kill him. However two problem present themselves:-

We dont know if the poison is water soluble, if it isn't then it would either settle beneath to water(if its denser than water) or ascend to the top of the dome(if its lighter)

The water could over dilute it.


It doesn't really matter since Kisame can't use the dome in this fight. However, you didn't realise this and point it out so I can't score it against your opponent.


NK's Rebuttal

This was a very good argument. You mentioned that Kisame could have knowledge on Sasori's poison and his abilities. You suggested Kisame using clones to fight at close range to avoid poison and sheilding Iron Sand attacks with water techniques. You theorized that Iron Sand's weakness was the fact that it is slow when forming structures. You were able to show the great disadvantage in Sasori using himself to fight Kisame.

You also mentioned the whole water dome thing....which Kisame can't use here. The slow forming of Iron Sand is a bit of a stretch since Sasori started forming two large structures at the bottom panel of one page and was done by the first panel of the next page.

It also won't be easy to get Sasori if Sasori uses himself as Sasori is faster than Kisame 4.5 speed. We dont know if Sasori's flame thrower is made from chakra. it could be fire he sealed into a scroll. There's the shredding fans which would keep Kisame away, the coil in his belly and so on....but Dr. Proof didn't get a chance to make these arguments so they don't really matter.




In the end, I vote Dr Proof

My decision mostly hangs on the fact that NK theorized an immunity to the poison, which is most likely untrue.

Sasori also has the means to inflict his deadly poison on Kisame and defend against Kisame's techs. Dr Proof showed that very clearly.

This is my judgement.