Madara and his true goal

[NarutoKage2]

I think the whole eye of the moon plan is just a front, a feint to hide Madara's true intentions. His real plan seems more simple: to become the strongest shinobi, to have no one capable of surpassing him.

In his day and age, he could'nt achieve this due to Hashirama besting him every time. For him, any form of peace/reconciliation is meaningless unless he can achieve the status of 'not being weaker than anyone'. This was his nature from day 1. Notice carefully what Madara said way back:

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'At last not only you, but i got to the other side too'.

Before that he said that a way exists for peace, (if he is'nt less than Hashirama), i.e because he also got to the other side.

At the valley of the end:

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'I believe you realized how much i changed', i.e got powerful. Another way of him saying that he's not weaker than anyone.

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'I'm already at the top.'
Madara shows yet again how important it is to him to not let anyone be stronger than himself.

This page shows the crux of Madara's philosophy, inherited from the elder son:

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'.....If you're weak no one will listen to you.'
In Madara's case, it was'nt just about becoming stronger. The Elder son believed might was the key to peace, because it would act as a deterrent. Madara took even this a step further: it was'nt enough to achieve power, his power had to be so great that none could surpass him, he had to be at such a level that even the very best amongst shinobi, i.e in his time Hashirama could not defeat him. Because only then would they take what Madara felt, his ideals and beliefs, seriously. Only then would what he cared about matter, only then could there be true equality for those who were important to him, e.g the uchiha clan.

The only reason he decided to ally with Hashirama to create Konoha was because he thought that the true equality he sought could be achieved. If the strongest of the senju was willing to die, he knew that he would be the strongest one left. The fact that Hashirama would give up the position of strength his clan had by killing himself, made Madara think that his true goal of not being less than anyone had already been achieved, for he knew he was only less than Hashirama, if he was willing to die for him than none could oppress him after that.


After being revived, Obito picked up on Madara's nature here:

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'Madara, you just want to try out the Juubi's power, don't you?'

The fact is, Madara's entire existence was striving to become stronger. He awoke the EMS,
then after realizing he could'nt beat Hashirama he used the power of the kyuubi to challenge him again. When loss was imminent, he stole hashi's dna, managed to awaken the rinnegan, made a plan to get revived later and instructed his apprentice(obito) to capture tailed beasts in the mazou. It was because since the 9 tails was'nt enough, he would now use the power of the Juubi itself, along with the rinnegan and mokuuton in place of EMS. Because perhaps that would let him finally achieve the status he always desired, to be the strongest there is.

This goal was almost like a drug to him. After being revived as an edo, he wondered in his heart whether all the power he had accumulated through long years spent hiding in the shadows, had finally, finally given him the ability to be able to par out with anyone, or to surpass them, even Hashirama. Its the whole meaning of his existence.

This was why when he learned of Hashirama's revival, he made this expression:

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For Madara, facing off with Hashirama means putting the purpose of his entire existence to the test. Has he finally achieved what he always desired? He thinks he probably has, and can beat Hashirama now, thus his smile, and the contortions are due to the massive struggles he knows he went through to get here.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Its possible that Mugen Tsukuyomi is just a farce.

 

[Naruto.]

Possible. His expression says it all.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Its possible that Mugen Tsukuyomi is just a farce.

Ok. I kinda hit you up to get a more detailed response than that, but w.e.

Possible. His expression says it all.

Looks like.

 

[Creedo]

You forget who he was when he was near death in that cave.

His personality at the end of his life was more like full of remorse and regret for this world. He really seemed there to want true peace but maybe he only wanted to deceive Obito to help him.

 

[NarutoKage2]

You forget who he was when he was near death in that cave.

His personality at the end of his life was more like full of remorse and regret for this world. He really seemed there to want true peace but maybe he only wanted to deceive Obito to help him.

He was naturally bitter. His life was a failure in his own eyes as he failed to achieve the strength he always had desired. His reasons for desiring strength were sincere, to protect the people close to him. But his ambition of how much strength he wanted,and the fact that he would'nt settle for anything less than the absolute best was what made him go through such misery.

 

[Naruto D Luffy]

Madara's goal is to revive all of the uchiha

 

[TheCCV]

Disagree. If his real goal was to become the strongest, he would've just destroying everything the moment he was ressurected. He has no reason to wait and play along with Obito's plan.

 

[Almighty Ra]

He's using Obito to bring him back to life so he can rule the world on his own sacrificing Obito for his goals

 

[r00r]

He wants to become the next sage also right? That would be meaning the most powerful.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Madara's goal is to revive all of the uchiha

Doubt it. Its quite likely that he gave instructions on the uchiha massacre in advance to obito.

Disagree. If his real goal was to become the strongest, he would've just destroying everything the moment he was ressurected. He has no reason to wait and play along with Obito's plan.

Did it ever occur to you that he could'nt? The 5 kages gave him a run for his money, he needed his best tech to destroy them. On his own he is'nt powerful enough to take the entire shinobi world(Naruto and Bee included).

He's using Obito to bring him back to life so he can rule the world on his own sacrificing Obito for his goals

Obito seems to have caught wind of his plan, however.

He wants to become the next sage also right? That would be meaning the most powerful.

Exactly.

 

[Chatte]

I think you are right. Why? As you showed, even from early days, Madara wanted to be the first in whatever he did. Now, if this is because of the era he lived in and affected his personality and thinking or he was just like that by nature, will be up to Kishi. I just hope he won't turn him into another type of anti-hero. I didn't get what I wanted, boo, let's put the world to an end.
Now, what you are theoretizing here is actually plausible. The Mugen Tsukuyomi might be a plan of his, not a facade. But a facade in the sense of not doing this because of peace, doing this actually because he wants to live in a world no one will match him and question him, and, like you said, he'll be the most-powerful living on Narutoverse, more or less. Exactly like the Elder Son of the Sage wanted. In order to rule by power, you have to be damn powerful to be able to control an universe, so, there! This way, we have the Mugen Tsukuyomi project and Madara's selfish real wishes are fulfilled. Rule by power, but in a world he makes sure to be controlled by him and probably, with the power-scales he wants. Thing that he wouldn't be able to do in a real world given he had a precedent: Hashirama.
So, yeah, I totally agree! Great thread!

 

[NarutoKage2]

I think you are right. Why? As you showed, even from early days, Madara wanted to be the first in whatever he did. Now, if this is because of the era he lived in and affected his personality and thinking or he was just like that by nature, will be up to Kishi. I just hope he won't turn him into another type of anti-hero. I didn't get what I wanted, boo, let's put the world to an end.
Now, what you are theoretizing here is actually plausible. The Mugen Tsukuyomi might be a plan of his, not a facade. But a facade in the sense of not doing this because of peace, doing this actually because he wants to live in a world no one will match him and question him, and, like you said, he'll be the most-powerful living on Narutoverse, more or less. Exactly like the Elder Son of the Sage wanted. In order to rule by power, you have to be damn powerful to be able to control an universe, so, there! This way, we have the Mugen Tsukuyomi project and Madara's selfish real wishes are fulfilled. Rule by power, but in a world he makes sure to be controlled by him and probably, with the power-scales he wants. Thing that he wouldn't be able to do in a real world given he had a precedent: Hashirama.
So, yeah, I totally agree! Great thread!

Chatte! <3
thanks for the positive response!
Ot: Bolded^ that's exactly the crux of this situation, what it all boils down to. Mind you, Madara may actually not have overtly selfish reasons for his belief. In truth, i think he just believes that his own vision of peace is the only one possible. But in order to achieve that peace, he needs to gain power,only if that power is unsurpassed can true peace(according to madara) be achieved.

Interesting observation on Mugen tsukuyomi not being a farce, but rather a means to achieve madara's vision of peace. That is a very good point, and you know what, i think its a better one than what i made in the Op, great observation. I accept that mugen tsukuyomi is not a farce under this pretext, it fits Madara's personality profile perfectly.

Another thing that seems quite interesting to me: madara choosing obito. Perhaps since Obito was basically a loser, Madara viewed his position as one who could not have his views given their due weight, due to an absence of strength. Perhaps he saw in that a parallel of how his position was always compromised in a likewise manner to hashirama and the senju clan. That might have made him sympathetic, and gave him a desire to make him powerful so that it would act as a symbol of the history of the world that madara wanted to re write.