Why Obito won't defeat Kakashi: argument from plot

PredictionGuru

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It's painfully obvious that at this point it's pro-villain Obito fans against Kakashi fans.
Just two more weeks, guys, and we'll find out.
 

Takos

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Your entire basis is on Kakashi, when Obito isn't even personal with him... Naruto is Obito's true enemy. Obito keeps talking to Naruto, getting angry with him, and trying to convert him. Obito is the opposite of Naruto, what Naruto could have been. Obito caused Naruto's loneliness and suffering in the entire series. Obito and Naruo need to fight, not a minor character like Kakashi. He will never defeat the biggest antagonist yet.

Minor character? Be serious, please. Kakashi is the third main character after Naruto and Sasuke. And yet he hasn't had his time to shine yet.

I'll say this otherwise: let's suppose it's Naruto who will have a final fight against Obito and defeats him. Kakashi has been thinking he's a failure and trash for his entire life. If Obito was defeated by Naruto and Kakashi would not be able to do this, this would only emphasise Kakashi's failure.

This is absolutely out of the question in a shonen manga, for a main character. Kakashi needs to OVERCOME his weaknesses, not be destroyed by them. Obito WILL be redeemed because of Naruto, which doesn't mean he will FIGHT Naruto. Period.

I actually think it's more likely Kakashi will die in the fight, but to make a point to Obito that he's wrong. When Naruto or someone else kills Obito, he will probably resurrect Kakashi using Rinne Tensei. Sadly, the 'older generation' dying and entrusting things to the younger seems like a good precedence for this entire arc....

Evidence A: Kakashi is no fool
Evidence B: There is no evidence in the manga that implies Kakashi can deal with Rinnegan or Mokuton well
Evidence C: Kakashi seems to have been buying time for Naruto to charge his power
Evidence D: "I entrust this to you" or お前にこれを任せてる seems to imply a sense of finality, and now that I think about it they are very close to a popular samurai's last words heh...

I think Kakashi actually will die, but only after making Obito realize how wrong he has been.

I will respond to what I disagree with the most:
Evidence B: There is no evidence in the manga that implies Kakashi can deal with Rinnegan or Mokuton well
Not really. He's fought Pain and when dealing with Obito's paths he already was calm about this, because he had experience fighting a Rinnegan user already. He pretty much knew that "once we find out what path can do what, we'll take it". As for mokuton, he's been very close to Yamato. Sure, Yamato's mokuton is not on Obito's level, but to think mokuton is an entirely new unheard of obstacle to Kakashi is wrong.
Evidence D: "I entrust this to you" or お前にこれを任せてる seems to imply a sense of finality, and now that I think about it they are very close to a popular samurai's last words heh...
That doesn't make sense. Kakashi wouldn't say he leaves Obito to Naruto while warping together with Obito to the other dimension. No, what makes more sense is that Kakashi leaves the REST to Naruto (Madara, Juubi, etc) while he'll take care of Obito.
 

Zol

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Your entire basis is on Kakashi, when Obito isn't even personal with him... Naruto is Obito's true enemy. Obito keeps talking to Naruto, getting angry with him, and trying to convert him. Obito is the opposite of Naruto, what Naruto could have been. Obito caused Naruto's loneliness and suffering in the entire series. Obito and Naruo need to fight, not a minor character like Kakashi. He will never defeat the biggest antagonist yet.



That are pretty much my thoughts as well.

Actually, Kishi is a bit confusing on this "who will fight/defeat who" part. We have Madara on the field, who orignally thought up the moon's eye plan and brought Obito in. He is also really powerful. So you would think he is the main character's enemy. But ever since Madara appeared on this battlefielöd, he hasn't done much, not only in fighting, which could be understandable since they had the Juubi for the most part, but perhaps even more important, he didn't talk to Naruto at all. All the story-heavy, emotional, ideological hero-villain-banter is exchanged between Naruto and Obito.

If Kishi wanted a Naruto-Madara-finale, he could have build up this typical hero-villain-theme between Naruto and him, but he didn't. Madara seems to just stand on the sidelines, longing for Hashirama...
 

Bijuu13

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Didnt Read:

Talk No Jutsu. It's heavily implied
 

Invsblphntm

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Kakashi overcame Obito when he decided to fight him, you want to overcome his past again? He clearly accepts Obito as his enemy and isn't dwelling on him anymore.


And you didn't counter a single point about Obito and Naruto being way more personal than Kakashi and Obito.
 

Zol

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Minor character? Be serious, please. Kakashi is the third main character after Naruto and Sasuke. And yet he hasn't had his time to shine yet.

I'll say this otherwise: let's suppose it's Naruto who will have a final fight against Obito and defeats him. Kakashi has been thinking he's a failure and trash for his entire life. If Obito was defeated by Naruto and Kakashi would not be able to do this, this would only emphasise Kakashi's failure.

This is absolutely out of the question in a shonen manga, for a main character. Kakashi needs to OVERCOME his weaknesses, not be destroyed by them. Obito WILL be redeemed because of Naruto, which doesn't mean he will FIGHT Naruto. Period.



I thought Sakura is the third main character, although she hasn't been active very much for a while until this chapter.

It might also be possible that Kakashi helps Naruto out in his battle with Obito, as he already did prior to the Juubi's awakening. That way, he could possibly overcome his past issues while Naruto is the one who actually defeats Obito...
 

BazzBee

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Got to the good point fast not bad
 

Zol

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Kakashi overcame Obito when he decided to fight him


That's actually sorta true. Before this decision, he was in a state of shock, afterwards he returned to be helpful in the battle. So, that is some psychological achievement on his side...
 

Takos

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Kakashi overcame Obito when he decided to fight him, you want to overcome his past again? He clearly accepts Obito as his enemy and isn't dwelling on him anymore.


And you didn't counter a single point about Obito and Naruto being way more personal than Kakashi and Obito.

Ok, I will now. I don't see it personal at ALL. Naruto barely knows Obito's name or maybe even he doesn't. To Naruto, Obito is just some random guy. The only connection between Naruto and Obito is between their ideas, not between the characters.

When it comes to Kakashi, the connection is much clearer. Former friends, knowing each other since childhood. Here we see both characters connection AND their ideas' connection.
Think of it: in the past, Kakashi used to be arrogant, believing that the end justifies the means (aka "We need to sacrifice Rin or it will turn out bad for the village in the long run"). Obito, on the other hand, used to care about others and comrades were what was most important to him.

Look at it now - Obito is arrogant, believing that the end justifies the means (aka "We need to kill all these people because this is the way to Infinite Tuskoymi, which will help the world"). Kakashi, on the other hand, places his comrades' lives above all else.

See?
The idea connection between these characters is VERY strong here, because not only do they have the opposite views, but they also used to be 180 degrees different than they're now! All in all, Obito became more like Kakashi and Kakashi became like Obito. Kakashi may be aware of this and that's why he might feel guilty for Obito turning evil (after all, it's because Obito became more like Kakashi). Defeating or redeeming Obito would be the ultimate success of Kakashi, because he would repair his faults.
 
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ToadSageNaruto

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Judging the outcome of a fight based on abilities of given characters is one way of predicting the results. It can be fun and in-universe seems the most logical, but you should also ask yourself - "What would such an outcome mean for the story of the series?"


Before I get to the point, let me rollback to a time before Tobi's identity was revealed.
Obito was not the most frequent prediction and that's because no one thought about the plot.
What would happen in the manga if Tobi was revealed to be Kagami or Izuna?
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
No characters present in the battlefield could recognize them. Such "Tobi" would also be a totally new character for the readers, which would mean they wouldn't really care that much. Emotional aspect of Tobi's identity reveal would be gone.
When Obito was revealed, however, the fans were VERY excited about this - some were happy, some of them raged, but EVERYONE was touched by this moment.
Obito was the most obvious answer when taking into account an argument from plot, yet few people accepted this as a valid argument.


Let's move on - Tobi's identity has been revealed, so what should be Obito's "epic" battle now? Naruto VS Obito? Of course, if this wasn't just a manga, then this fight would be "chosen" randomly - Obito could fight Naruto or Bee or whomever.
BUT this is manga. Many of the fights are picked in such a way that they are the most personal. Naruto VS Sasuke, Jirayia VS Pain, even such less important ones like Hinata VS Neji in the first part. Kakashi's past has been a heavy burden to him, so it is only logical that he would be the one to deal with Obito.
And look, that's what's going to happen. Again it's the plot that determines the events of the manga.


And now we come to predicting the outcome of this battle. Many people are eager to yell "KAKASHI'S GONNA DIE, HE HAS NO CHANCES", but is it really going to happen? What would be the consequences of this for story development? You think Kishimoto would just make a third main character (after Naruto and Sasuke) die when pitted against his own past? That's right, Obito represents Kakashi's past and the heavy burden he had to carry ever since before the series started. A main character being defeated by his own weaknesses is definitely not a theme of ANY shonen manga and Naruto is no exception.

All in all, Kakashi will not be defeated. He will either win or persuade Obito to redeem - which would be another form of victory and overcoming his past.

And if you start saying that it would be a huge asspull because Kakashi's abilities are inferior to that of Obito's (even though I could argue about this one), then remember one final thing:

It is characters' abilities that adjust to the needs of the story, not the other way around.

Cheer!

took the words right out of my mouth, if i could plus rep you i would. nice work.
 

Nous

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This is the way I don't want the series to go.

Obito kills Kakashi
Minato TnJ Obito
Obito fights Madara
Obito Kamui's Juubi and helps defeat Madara
Obito, Rinne Tenseis everyone and dies

Yeah that'd be awful.
 
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