Why Obito won't defeat Kakashi: argument from plot

[Takos]

Judging the outcome of a fight based on abilities of given characters is one way of predicting the results. It can be fun and in-universe seems the most logical, but you should also ask yourself - "What would such an outcome mean for the story of the series?"


Before I get to the point, let me rollback to a time before Tobi's identity was revealed.
Obito was not the most frequent prediction and that's because no one thought about the plot.
What would happen in the manga if Tobi was revealed to be Kagami or Izuna?
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
No characters present in the battlefield could recognize them. Such "Tobi" would also be a totally new character for the readers, which would mean they wouldn't really care that much. Emotional aspect of Tobi's identity reveal would be gone.
When Obito was revealed, however, the fans were VERY excited about this - some were happy, some of them raged, but EVERYONE was touched by this moment.
Obito was the most obvious answer when taking into account an argument from plot, yet few people accepted this as a valid argument.


Let's move on - Tobi's identity has been revealed, so what should be Obito's "epic" battle now? Naruto VS Obito? Of course, if this wasn't just a manga, then this fight would be "chosen" randomly - Obito could fight Naruto or Bee or whomever.
BUT this is manga. Many of the fights are picked in such a way that they are the most personal. Naruto VS Sasuke, Jirayia VS Pain, even such less important ones like Hinata VS Neji in the first part. Kakashi's past has been a heavy burden to him, so it is only logical that he would be the one to deal with Obito.
And look, that's what's going to happen. Again it's the plot that determines the events of the manga.


And now we come to predicting the outcome of this battle. Many people are eager to yell "KAKASHI'S GONNA DIE, HE HAS NO CHANCES", but is it really going to happen? What would be the consequences of this for story development? You think Kishimoto would just make a third main character (after Naruto and Sasuke) die when pitted against his own past? That's right, Obito represents Kakashi's past and the heavy burden he had to carry ever since before the series started. A main character being defeated by his own weaknesses is definitely not a theme of ANY shonen manga and Naruto is no exception.

All in all, Kakashi will not be defeated. He will either win or persuade Obito to redeem - which would be another form of victory and overcoming his past.

And if you start saying that it would be a huge asspull because Kakashi's abilities are inferior to that of Obito's (even though I could argue about this one), then remember one final thing:

It is characters' abilities that adjust to the needs of the story, not the other way around.

Cheer!

 

[msbishop92]

Well said man.

 

[Bogard]

Well said man.

This :scorps:

 

[narutoblitz]

Kamui doesn't work in Obito-verse. This was confirmed when Obito was unable to dodge that Rasengan to the face. IMO that puts Obito at a serious disadvantage. I still think that he's been doing all this for Kakashi, and his earlier dialogue with Madara suggests that he in no way was "suckered" by Madara and doesn't believe anything the guy is saying.

In the end I think Obito will betray Madara and be a key part of how the good guys take him down.

 

[namikaze12]

good point

 

[Lightbringer]

Judging the outcome of a fight based on abilities of given characters is one way of predicting the results. It can be fun and in-universe seems the most logical, but you should also ask yourself - "What would such an outcome mean for the story of the series?"


Before I get to the point, let me rollback to a time before Tobi's identity was revealed.
Obito was not the most frequent prediction and that's because no one thought about the plot.
What would happen in the manga if Tobi was revealed to be Kagami or Izuna?
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
No characters present in the battlefield could recognize them. Such "Tobi" would also be a totally new character for the readers, which would mean they wouldn't really care that much. Emotional aspect of Tobi's identity reveal would be gone.
When Obito was revealed, however, the fans were VERY excited about this - some were happy, some of them raged, but EVERYONE was touched by this moment.
Obito was the most obvious answer when taking into account an argument from plot, yet few people accepted this as a valid argument.


Let's move on - Tobi's identity has been revealed, so what should be Obito's "epic" battle now? Naruto VS Obito? Of course, if this wasn't just a manga, then this fight would be "chosen" randomly - Obito could fight Naruto or Bee or whomever.
BUT this is manga. Many of the fights are picked in such a way that they are the most personal. Naruto VS Sasuke, Jirayia VS Pain, even such less important ones like Hinata VS Neji in the first part. Kakashi's past has been a heavy burden to him, so it is only logical that he would be the one to deal with Obito.
And look, that's what's going to happen. Again it's the plot that determines the events of the manga.


And now we come to predicting the outcome of this battle. Many people are eager to yell "KAKASHI'S GONNA DIE, HE HAS NO CHANCES", but is it really going to happen? What would be the consequences of this for story development? You think Kishimoto would just make a third main character (after Naruto and Sasuke) die when pitted against his own past? That's right, Obito represents Kakashi's past and the heavy burden he had to carry ever since before the series started. A main character being defeated by his own weaknesses is definitely not a theme of ANY shonen manga and Naruto is no exception.

All in all, Kakashi will not be defeated. He will either win or persuade Obito to redeem - which would be another form of victory and overcoming his past.

And if you start saying that it would be a huge asspull because Kakashi's abilities are inferior to that of Obito's (even though I could argue about this one), then remember one final thing:

It is characters' abilities that adjust to the needs of the story, not the other way around.

Cheer!

Obito is the Dark Naruto....they are supposed to clash....and Kakashi's death adds to the war casualties

at least that's what I think

 

[Kakashii]

yep thats pretty much it.

 

[Arcanor]

well said mate
what's your opinion about both dying?

 

[johnny scars]

i just hope kakshi doest die..

 

[Prestonyoko]

i don't know.. Obito has shown alot of skill in fire release lately... He will probally overpower Kakashi using it, Kakashi seems low on chakra since he warped the Hibachi, but then again Naruto gave Kakashi chakra so i still don't know

It could either way really

 

[Takos]

Kamui doesn't work in Obito-verse. This was confirmed when Obito was unable to dodge that Rasengan to the face. IMO that puts Obito at a serious disadvantage. I still think that he's been doing all this for Kakashi, and his earlier dialogue with Madara suggests that he in no way was "suckered" by Madara and doesn't believe anything the guy is saying.

In the end I think Obito will betray Madara and be a key part of how the good guys take him down.

Actually, he couldn't dodge the rasengan with Kamui because there was a bijuudama explosion in the other dimension. His options were to take bijuudama to the chest or Rasengan to the mask. The choice was pretty obvious.

well said mate
what's your opinion about both dying?

I think it's unlikely, but just like persuading Obito into redemption, it would be a form of Kakashi overcoming past, so it might be an option.

 

[narutoblitz]

People are leaving out the possibility that Kakashi dies and Obito follows him in death by using Rinne Tensei on him or someone else.

 

[DaVe14]

Well said bro we will just have to see the next chapter but that would be a great fight considering the story behind both characters and I feel the truth behind Rin is definitley gonna be brought up in this fight. I mean yes its confirmed that Kakashi killed Rin but we never got the reason to why though.

 

[adeshina365]

What you're referring to is plot-no-jutsu, no need for the long write up.

 

[hisou]

Kamui doesn't work in Obito-verse. This was confirmed when Obito was unable to dodge that Rasengan to the face. IMO that puts Obito at a serious disadvantage. I still think that he's been doing all this for Kakashi, and his earlier dialogue with Madara suggests that he in no way was "suckered" by Madara and doesn't believe anything the guy is saying.

In the end I think Obito will betray Madara and be a key part of how the good guys take him down.

Thing is, Obito couldn't avoid Naruto's Rasengan because teleporting to some place else would have taken too long, plus during that process he has to materialize. So, dodging the attact was inevitable. Obito could have immaterialized himself back to the normal dimension but if he did that it would be a guarenteed hit because of the Bijuu Dama.

Also, Obito was caught by surprise, he wouldn't have expected to see Naruto in his dimension.

If you think I'm wrong.. hit me

 

[Zol]

Let's move on - Tobi's identity has been revealed, so what should be Obito's "epic" battle now? Naruto VS Obito? Of course, if this wasn't just a manga, then this fight would be "chosen" randomly - Obito could fight Naruto or Bee or whomever.
BUT this is manga. Many of the fights are picked in such a way that they are the most personal. Naruto VS Sasuke, Jirayia VS Pain, even such less important ones like Hinata VS Neji in the first part. Kakashi's past has been a heavy burden to him, so it is only logical that he would be the one to deal with Obito.
And look, that's what's going to happen. Again it's the plot that determines the events of the manga.

Actually, THAT is exactly why Kakashi will lose, or at least not defeat Obito in any way. Kishi didn't invest so much panels and chapters to build up a personal ideological feud between Naruto and Obito for nothing.

You mentioned Jiraya and Nagato - a similar constellation. Though Jiraya was originally the one with a personal bond to Nagato, he lost. Naruto, who didn't know Nagato prior, defeated him, because it became personal to him.

 

[Takos]

Actually, THAT is exactly why Kakashi will lose, or at least not defeat Obito in any way. Kishi didn't invest so much panels and chapters to build up a personal ideological feud between Naruto and Obito for nothing.

You mentioned Jiraya and Nagato - a similar constellation. Though Jiraya was originally the one with a personal bond to Nagato, he lost. Naruto, who didn't know Nagato prior, defeated him, because it became personal to him.

You have a point, but I STRONGLY disagree if you think that Obito and Naruto connection has been made stronger than Kakashi and Obito connection.

Obito will redeem - either a moment before death or without dying altogether. This redemption will be because of Naruto, this is true. This doesn't mean his final battle will be against Naruto, because Kakashi VS Obito makes much more sense plot-wise.

More than that, you haven't responded to my argument that Obito represents Kakashi's burdens of the past and that each shonen's theme is overcoming weaknesses. Kakashi's defeat would turn his life and struggle against past into a failure and that's definitely not something that Kishi would do to one of main characters.

 

[DaVe14]

Kakashi already supposed to be dead cause he definitely died fighting Pain but i mean he has gotten better since the war has started, his chakra reserves have gotten bigger. And now especially since he's cloaked in Kurama's chakra lets see how much of an upgrade this is gonna be for Mr. Hatake.

 

[Invsblphntm]

Your entire basis is on Kakashi, when Obito isn't even personal with him... Naruto is Obito's true enemy. Obito keeps talking to Naruto, getting angry with him, and trying to convert him. Obito is the opposite of Naruto, what Naruto could have been. Obito caused Naruto's loneliness and suffering in the entire series. Obito and Naruo need to fight, not a minor character like Kakashi. He will never defeat the biggest antagonist yet.

 

[narutoblitz]

I actually think it's more likely Kakashi will die in the fight, but to make a point to Obito that he's wrong. When Naruto or someone else kills Obito, he will probably resurrect Kakashi using Rinne Tensei. Sadly, the 'older generation' dying and entrusting things to the younger seems like a good precedence for this entire arc....

Evidence A: Kakashi is no fool
Evidence B: There is no evidence in the manga that implies Kakashi can deal with Rinnegan or Mokuton well
Evidence C: Kakashi seems to have been buying time for Naruto to charge his power
Evidence D: "I entrust this to you" or お前にこれを任せてる seems to imply a sense of finality, and now that I think about it they are very close to a popular samurai's last words heh...

I think Kakashi actually will die, but only after making Obito realize how wrong he has been.