[Theory] The Unknown S/T Jutsu User [The White Fang]

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Nice theory.

 

[FearxDeath]

Wow not only is this plausible, but also very unique. Great idea! I like the comparison of their two nicknames I was thinking that while I was still only partly through and was so happy you mentioned it.

I do think it's plausible that Minato developed FTG on his own, after all he has been hyped as a once in a generation genius. But what he told Obito about Kakashi's dad would make so much more sense if he had known him.

On the other hand the White Fang might have been too old to have known Minato. I bet there was overlap between them, but it is still weird that they'd meet. Minato was probably still very young at the time of his suicide.

Nice reply. If you read the scan where Minato talks about Sakumo he states that he commited Suicide 5 years ago. Which means that He could have known Minato well prior to him commit suicide as Minato was around 25-28 at the time. Which is alot older than Naruto was when he met Jiraiya.

 

[FearxDeath]

Oh yeah im not disagreeing that Tobirama was the original inventor. Im assuming Minato improved upon it and made it more efficient, kind of like how his edo tensei was taken and improved upon. But yeah keep the theories coming man theyre always good

Glad you liked it

 

[Almighty Ra]

Did you even read the thread? There is indefinant proof that Tobirama used FTG...





1) Of all the scrolls to be seen and had he showed him FTG for no particular reason. Remember there is a huge scroll filled with forbidden jusu, which obviously isnt as fordidden as we all thought it was. The entire village was in a panic when Naruto took the forbidden scroll but he just lets Minato use it, no real reason you just say its a possibility. Which it is, and its a possibility that ill have a heart attack right now. But which is more likely, mine theory or yours. Ill answer this in my thread.

2) And your idea is that Hiruzen show him this forbidden scroll because he was a "Prodigy" but in the ninja handbook Minato graduated from the academy at age 10, kakashi did at age 5. Itachi did at age 7. Orochimaru at age 6 and Jiriaya at age 6. There were other geniuses out there. So now you have to explain what "other than him being a "prodigy"" made Hiruzen chose Minato... which ofcourse you cant because there is no proof of any of this.

3) You say that my theory is unlikely but you havent dont anything to make mine look unlikely, you just introduce an alternate and out of no where say it is more likely than mine even though your "theory" introduces ALOT of question while mine does not. Look up occams razor. Ninjas bodys retain alot of jutsu? Explain this to me as I dont remember this. Ive got no clue why you brought up orochimaru? could you elaborate on the point you made in section, I reread it 3 times and cant grasp how it makes a point and disproves mine.

I added a new section to the thread "Update 2" to further talk on this subject.

1)It could be a possibility Minato's body was able to handle the high speeds of the dimensional void due to his natural speed and reflexs.
2)Not every ninja has the same amount of speed,chakra or physical strength...yours are theories jus as mine
3)Never said it was likely jus don't agree with yours..I brought him up for the reason Oro stoled Edo tensi tech from a scroll like i possibly believe S/T is also in a scroll that Minato gained access too.You asked for proof on the importance of shinobi bodies and the secrets they hold info,ninjutsu etc etc..hence why it's possible that if Oro couldn't gain access to Edo scroll he stoled it from Tobirama's dead body.

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This is to something u said in part of ur thread.."Tobirama couldnt have taught Hiruzen FTG because he died before Hiruzen became hokage, essentially taking to jutsu to his grave. And if Hiruzen did know FTG I am sure we would have seen it by now. All hokages have a seal on them and Minato was the 4th. So during the kyubi attack Hiruzen could have S/T'ed to him rather than run around trying to find out what he was doing."


On a mission during the First Shinobi World War, Team Tobirama which was made of Danzō Shimura, Kagami Uchiha and Torifu Akimichi, they were surrounded by twenty elite Kumo ninja known as the Kinkaku Force. Tobirama knew that the only way any of them could escape alive was for one of them to be a decoy and sacrifice themselves; having faith that he had taught his students well, he decided to sacrifice himself after he selected his favorite student Hiruzen to be the Third Hokage.

To further answer ur part 2 of ur thread the reason why Hiruzen didn't know S/T like Minato was cuz even though Tobirama invented it Minato excelled and perfected it further by infusing it with the Uzuamki clan Fuinjutsu and raising the level of FTg Lv1 and Lv2..Look at my sig thats FTG Lv2..Its not just about who created it but who perfected it and took the jutsu to another level.The 3rd was already old had been fight Kurama..do u think a man his age could have done S/T after a fight like that? Unlikely

Why Minato knew about the White fang was out of respect for shinobi he was that would rather fail in his mission then risk the lives of his comrades thats something that shinobi like Minato with his standards to be Hokage would admire. No where in the manga does it ever state he had a relationship with him or was trained by him.If u could provide proof and a scan i would love to see.

 

[lsgteam]

wow, nice theory

 

[sulanis]

Good theory, it might explain why Sakumo was so famour even on an sannin level.

 

[FearxDeath]

1)It could be a possibility Minato's body was able to handle the high speeds of the dimensional void due to his natural speed and reflexs.
2)Not every ninja has the same amount of speed,chakra or physical strength...yours are theories jus as mine
3)Never said it was likely jus don't agree with yours..I brought him up for the reason Oro stoled Edo tensi tech from a scroll like i possibly believe S/T is also in a scroll that Minato gained access too.You asked for proof on the importance of shinobi bodies and the secrets they hold info,ninjutsu etc etc..hence why it's possible that if Oro couldn't gain access to Edo scroll he stoled it from Tobirama's dead body.

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This is to something u said in part of ur thread.."Tobirama couldnt have taught Hiruzen FTG because he died before Hiruzen became hokage, essentially taking to jutsu to his grave. And if Hiruzen did know FTG I am sure we would have seen it by now. All hokages have a seal on them and Minato was the 4th. So during the kyubi attack Hiruzen could have S/T'ed to him rather than run around trying to find out what he was doing."


On a mission during the First Shinobi World War, Team Tobirama which was made of Danzō Shimura, Kagami Uchiha and Torifu Akimichi, they were surrounded by twenty elite Kumo ninja known as the Kinkaku Force. Tobirama knew that the only way any of them could escape alive was for one of them to be a decoy and sacrifice themselves; having faith that he had taught his students well, he decided to sacrifice himself after he selected his favorite student Hiruzen to be the Third Hokage.

To further answer ur part 2 of ur thread the reason why Hiruzen didn't know S/T like Minato was cuz even though Tobirama invented it Minato excelled and perfected it further by infusing it with the Uzuamki clan Fuinjutsu and raising the level of FTg Lv1 and Lv2..Look at my sig thats FTG Lv2..Its not just about who created it but who perfected it and took the jutsu to another level.The 3rd was already old had been fight Kurama..do u think a man his age could have done S/T after a fight like that? Unlikely

Why Minato knew about the White fang was out of respect for shinobi he was that would rather fail in his mission then risk the lives of his comrades thats something that shinobi like Minato with his standards to be Hokage would admire. No where in the manga does it ever state he had a relationship with him or was trained by him.If u could provide proof and a scan i would love to see.

The way you present things is somewhat confusing, you fill it with things that are neccesary, like the way tobirama died, for no apparent reason. I hope I didnt miss something but why did you mention how tobirama died?

1) Your first point adds yet another assumption and as you continue to add more and more assumptions to your theory in order to make it possible you also take away of its likelihood. Wihch is why I think mine is more likely. And remember I am not arguing possibility, I already said what your saying is possible, I am arguing likelihood.

2) The reason I said what I said was because you mentioned that Hiruzen choes Minato because he was a "Genius/prodigy" and so I said what I said to tell you that there were ALOT better options, namely Orochimaru. You then chance your stance to say that it wasnt because he was a "genius/prodigy" but because he had quick reflexes etc... I will address that below.

3) The scan you show does not say that someone can create a jutsu based on a dead body. What it says is that someone can find out important information about a villages ninjutsu, chakra type and etc.. based on a dead body. And then makes a reference to how if he were to die they could steal his sharingan. Which is obvious. But it does not explain your theory as to Orochimaru learning Edo Tensie from Tobirama's Dead Body.

4) You make this long rant about how tobirama died in response to my statement? But I dont know why... Did you read it? You do realize How tobirama died had Nothing to do with what I was saying right?

5) Lastly you say that the reason Hiruzen didnt use S/T was because Minato excelled at it.... What? And if the difference was that Minato used seals then why didnt he teach Hiruzen these seals? Hiruzen is hokage after all and must know all techniques in the village. And lastly yes I do believe Hiruzen would have been able to use S/T after the fight. He is a hokage. If he was all out of chakra I doubt he would have run towards the 9 tails looking to continue the fight.

6) I never said the manga said there was a relationship. I dont know why you say I did. I simply said that based on the fact that everyone in the village had turned on Sakumo and yet Minato didnt. Simply because Minato seemed to have intimate knowledge of what had happened to Sakumo. And based on the fact that Minato was assigned to be Kakashi's mentor, one can presume that there could have been a relationship there. If I made you think that was conclusive I am sorry, I believe I had about 100 disclaimers saying there was nothing conclusive here and I dont recall ever stating for a fact that they had a relationship.

 

[adeshina365]

Excellent theory! I think that this a very plausible scenario and we'll probably learn more about this in the coming chapters.

Now to clear up a few things that some are saying in this thread:

1. There is no FTG V2. That's a common mistranslation for FTG "second step". The second step being Minato hitting the opponent with a Rasengan.

2. I'm honestly amazed that there are still people who don't believe that the jutsu that Tobirama was using was FTG even though he directly stated it.

 

[taladagah]

I would never, eva...eva...eva argue with that much paper work. lol urs is way more plausible

 

[Almighty Ra]

6) No apologies needed those are jus theories..everyone is entitled to their own opinions and assumptions.

5)Again i disagree I believe he was running out of chakra and if he would have done s/t he would have lost if he tried to fight Kurama again head on. He was already retired and came out of retirement to protect the village the best way possible from Kurama's attack.It's his duty as a shinobi and at the time former Hokage to fight till the end..I can't answer why he didnt' teach Hiruzen the seals there's neither evidence that he didnt' know them or wasn't taught.

4)No one is ranting i brought that point up because u said in Part 2 of your thread that Tobirama died before Hiruzen became third hokage and it's not so..He appointed Hiruzen hokage before he became a decoy so his students could escape.

3)Wouldn't info on a shinobi's ninjutsu be problematic...Kakashi in the panel explains if he were to die and another shinobi got his body they could learn the secrets of the sharingan and his jutsu..My point was that if a great shinobi like Tobirama could have his body stolen (by Oro)his jutsu could be taken as well..example the battle between Danzo and Sasuke..Danzo like a self destruct seal that upon his death would seal and destroy his body so secrets and jutsu wouldn't be taken.again this jus an example

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2)I didn't change my view on it..i simply pointed out another factor why i believe he was either taught or chosen for s/t jutsu.

1) Understandable but i'm not adding more assumptions to make mine anymore or any less then yours..I jus don't agree with all of your assumptions..And i honestly believe u might have confused what i wrote i was in haste out of the office...I jus answered something u wrote on your thread.None the less it's a good theory u have

 

[FearxDeath]

1) If he was running out of chakra then why did he run to the 9 tails in the first place? You saying that him Using S/T would have caused him to die to Kurama. How is that possible? Where both talking about what we see but your interpretation is obviously off. He wouldnt run to fight the 9 tails with the Anbu if he wasnt planning on fight, and how can he fight without Chakra? Even in his fight vs Orochimaru we see him pull off 6+ S rank jutsu's and still have enough chakra for RDS only failing to completely seal Oro after being stabbed. He AND the entire village fought off Kurama and your saying he chased after it knowing he had no chakra left? it doesnt make anysense.. Someone without chakra does not chase after a tailed beast knowing he wouldnt be able to do anything.

2) Oh I am sorry, Tobirama died a few minutes after he appointed Hiruzen Hokage.... Now tell me how that changes the POINT I was making in that paragraph... Which was, if you didnt read, that Tobirama died before he could teach Hiruzen FTG as is the tradition that Hokages know all the techniques in the village.

3) Jesus Christ what jutsu are you talking about, how do you even get JUTSU from a dead body? The reason Danzo self destructed was because he had Shishiu's Sharigan and did not want it to fall into Obito's hands. The reason Kakshi never mentions Jutsu and when he just mentions his sharingan. He starts by saying that by looking at ones body you can find out information about the VILLAGE they came from, like the villages ninjutsu, the villages herbs etc... This is intel that could help you fight against that village in the future. He does not mean that you can take a dead body and magically get all there jutsu. Your intentionally misinterpreting him in order to try and prove your point.

4) Yes you conveniently pointed out a different point after I proved your first point to be wrong. You said Hiruzen picked Minato because he was a genius, I said why didnt he also pick Orochimaru, you dodge the question because the kills your point. And then switch over to saying that he chose minato because he had fast reflexes...

5) All of my assumptions? Care to point out a few. I only make 2 assumptions, 1) Tobirama taught Sakumo, 2) Sakumo taught Minato. You on the other hand are making assumption after assumption. 1) Tobirama made a scroll, 2) Tobirama seperated the FTG scroll and the EDO scroll (Because Orochimaru DOES have the edo scroll) 3) hiruzen has FTG but never EVER uses it throughout the series for one reason or another 4) Hiruzen lets minato learn the technique in the scroll because he is "special" for some reason or another. Thats your 4 assumptions to my 2...Not to mention your assumption beggs other questions like Why didnt Hiruzen teach anyone else the technique other than minato.

Glad you liked the thread , i hope I didnt come off as aggressive or anything I just have a hard time politely disagreeing with someone x__x

 

[Penguin]

I really liked this thread! It was very interesting!

 

[FearxDeath]

I really liked this thread! It was very interesting!

Thanks I am glad you liked it

 

[Sherlock.]

Great Theory.... I really liked it....
Also one more point....
Minato's signature technique FTG was taught to him by Sakumo....
Kakashi watched over Naruto's Training of his Signature move Rasen Shuriken....

 

[BloodSeed]

how old sakumo hatake?

 

[FearxDeath]

how old sakumo hatake?

He died 5 years prior to Minato forming his gennin team with Kakshi, Obito and Rin. Although it isnt said, he does look at the time to be alot older if not the same age as Hiruzen.

 

[Sherlock.]

how old sakumo hatake?

Well Sakumo and Hiruzen are most probably in the same age group.... Also their sons are.... I mean Kakashi and Asuma.... =D =D

 

[NaruSasuRival]

I really like theories, and actually I come on the forums to discuss theories most of the time. However, on this forum, it seems that people create theories just without caring about any logic. Even a speculation requires that a logic between facts exist. With no offense, your theory is highly flawed. Here is my reason:

1) The fact that Tobirama know hiraishin does not defeat the argument that Minato discovered his FTG on his own.

In fact, you are forgetting that at some point in time, Tobirama or someone older than him had to create the his S/T on his own. If that person can, then other person can too. If your argument is that Minato is not smart enough to create the Justu, then your theory does not prove it either. Fact is that Minato was extremely fast even without the teleportation. I think this is where the Jutsu comes from. Their initial speed suggest a genetic heritage there. Here, my best speculation would be that Minato is Tobirama's son or grandson. This fact could be supported by Hiruzen choice of Minato as Hokage and why Hiruzen cared much about him. It could be because Minato was a genius, but it could also be that Hiruzen could see his Sensei in him.

2) No matter how you use Sakumo, there is no hint in the manga, and no logic in your argument. Jiraya was Minato's teacher, and I bet Jiraya was compared to Sakumo (3 sannins). Chyo also mentioned her Rivalry with white fang and Tsunade. This suggest that Chyo, White Fang, and the three Sannins are in the same Generation of shinobi. You should not forget actually, that Chyo and Tsunade are of the same age, except that Tsunade uses regeneration Jutsu. If Sakumo knew Tobirama then Jiraya knew Tobirama. Even so, Jiraya mentioned that Minato was a genius. In case you have not followed me, I am saying that Sakumo and Jiraya are the same age range.

3) Again, Minato is a mystery in the manga and I have predicted long ago that after the Uchiha's story, the last piece of excitment in Naruto (history-wise) will be Minato, Tobirama, Naruto, and the Uzumaki clan. I am pretty sure that Minato is Tobirama's son r grandson. I also think that the Hiraishin is not a mere Jutsu that anyone can perform easily. Rather, it is a KKG that is very difficult to control. Maybe Tobirama was able to use it on a certain scale, Minato came up with the sealing tag to use it, and Naruto will spam it just because he is more gifted than his predecessor. I am speculating, but this speculation is even better than what you said.

A few remarks;

- As soon as Naruto got a lot of chakra from Kyuubi, the first think he did was sensing beyond normal. We also saw that sensing is Tobirama's ability. He could even sense the evilness of Madara's chakra from far.

- The second think Naruto did after getting chakra from Kyuubi was a shunshin that was nothing short of the Yellow flash touch. This bring him even closer to the Tobirama and Minato.

On another forums, I have a theory that Minato is Tobirama's descendent, and that FTG is a genetically connected Jutsu. In the following chapters, we will see that these connections are real, and that most of the things Naruto is doing are actually genetically connected to his parents.

 

[Almighty Ra]

I really like theories, and actually I come on the forums to discuss theories most of the time. However, on this forum, it seems that people create theories just without caring about any logic. Even a speculation requires that a logic between facts exist. With no offense, your theory is highly flawed. Here is my reason:

1) The fact that Tobirama know hiraishin does not defeat the argument that Minato discovered his FTG on his own.

In fact, you are forgetting that at some point in time, Tobirama or someone older than him had to create the his S/T on his own. If that person can, then other person can too. If your argument is that Minato is not smart enough to create the Justu, then your theory does not prove it either. Fact is that Minato was extremely fast even without the teleportation. I think this is where the Jutsu comes from. Their initial speed suggest a genetic heritage there. Here, my best speculation would be that Minato is Tobirama's son or grandson. This fact could be supported by Hiruzen choice of Minato as Hokage and why Hiruzen cared much about him. It could be because Minato was a genius, but it could also be that Hiruzen could see his Sensei in him.

2) No matter how you use Sakumo, there is no hint in the manga, and no logic in your argument. Jiraya was Minato's teacher, and I bet Jiraya was compared to Sakumo (3 sannins). Chyo also mentioned her Rivalry with white fang and Tsunade. This suggest that Chyo, White Fang, and the three Sannins are in the same Generation of shinobi. You should not forget actually, that Chyo and Tsunade are of the same age, except that Tsunade uses regeneration Jutsu. If Sakumo knew Tobirama then Jiraya knew Tobirama. Even so, Jiraya mentioned that Minato was a genius. In case you have not followed me, I am saying that Sakumo and Jiraya are the same age range.

3) Again, Minato is a mystery in the manga and I have predicted long ago that after the Uchiha's story, the last piece of excitment in Naruto (history-wise) will be Minato, Tobirama, Naruto, and the Uzumaki clan. I am pretty sure that Minato is Tobirama's son r grandson. I also think that the Hiraishin is not a mere Jutsu that anyone can perform easily. Rather, it is a KKG that is very difficult to control. Maybe Tobirama was able to use it on a certain scale, Minato came up with the sealing tag to use it, and Naruto will spam it just because he is more gifted than his predecessor. I am speculating, but this speculation is even better than what you said.

A few remarks;

- As soon as Naruto got a lot of chakra from Kyuubi, the first think he did was sensing beyond normal. We also saw that sensing is Tobirama's ability. He could even sense the evilness of Madara's chakra from far.

- The second think Naruto did after getting chakra from Kyuubi was a shunshin that was nothing short of the Yellow flash touch. This bring him even closer to the Tobirama and Minato.

On another forums, I have a theory that Minato is Tobirama's descendent, and that FTG is a genetically connected Jutsu. In the following chapters, we will see that these connections are real, and that most of the things Naruto is doing are actually genetically connected to his parents.

Cool theory great work seems possible

 

[Almighty Ra]

1) If he was running out of chakra then why did he run to the 9 tails in the first place? You saying that him Using S/T would have caused him to die to Kurama. How is that possible? Where both talking about what we see but your interpretation is obviously off. He wouldnt run to fight the 9 tails with the Anbu if he wasnt planning on fight, and how can he fight without Chakra? Even in his fight vs Orochimaru we see him pull off 6+ S rank jutsu's and still have enough chakra for RDS only failing to completely seal Oro after being stabbed. He AND the entire village fought off Kurama and your saying he chased after it knowing he had no chakra left? it doesnt make anysense.. Someone without chakra does not chase after a tailed beast knowing he wouldnt be able to do anything.

2) Oh I am sorry, Tobirama died a few minutes after he appointed Hiruzen Hokage.... Now tell me how that changes the POINT I was making in that paragraph... Which was, if you didnt read, that Tobirama died before he could teach Hiruzen FTG as is the tradition that Hokages know all the techniques in the village.

3) Jesus Christ what jutsu are you talking about, how do you even get JUTSU from a dead body? The reason Danzo self destructed was because he had Shishiu's Sharigan and did not want it to fall into Obito's hands. The reason Kakshi never mentions Jutsu and when he just mentions his sharingan. He starts by saying that by looking at ones body you can find out information about the VILLAGE they came from, like the villages ninjutsu, the villages herbs etc... This is intel that could help you fight against that village in the future. He does not mean that you can take a dead body and magically get all there jutsu. Your intentionally misinterpreting him in order to try and prove your point.

4) Yes you conveniently pointed out a different point after I proved your first point to be wrong. You said Hiruzen picked Minato because he was a genius, I said why didnt he also pick Orochimaru, you dodge the question because the kills your point. And then switch over to saying that he chose minato because he had fast reflexes...

5) All of my assumptions? Care to point out a few. I only make 2 assumptions, 1) Tobirama taught Sakumo, 2) Sakumo taught Minato. You on the other hand are making assumption after assumption. 1) Tobirama made a scroll, 2) Tobirama seperated the FTG scroll and the EDO scroll (Because Orochimaru DOES have the edo scroll) 3) hiruzen has FTG but never EVER uses it throughout the series for one reason or another 4) Hiruzen lets minato learn the technique in the scroll because he is "special" for some reason or another. Thats your 4 assumptions to my 2...Not to mention your assumption beggs other questions like Why didnt Hiruzen teach anyone else the technique other than minato.

Glad you liked the thread , i hope I didnt come off as aggressive or anything I just have a hard time politely disagreeing with someone x__x

You actually did but like i said before u have your theories and i have my own...You seem to not understand or want to understand what i was trying to say but hey not everyone has the same thought process..With maturity u'll learn how to disagree with out aggression..If criticism or debating is problematic for u then an open forum isn't for u..I hope i'm not being obtuse..lets jus agree to disagree