Timeline Proof: Shisui was the 3rd Mangekyuo User

[thegame]

Bump.
@ everyone: another proof just came to mind. In this scan:

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Itachi is stated to be 'barely 4 years old'.
This can help. Let's see, Itachi's age at part 2=21

16 years ago, the kyuubi attacked. 21-16= 5 (itachi was 5 during the kyuubi attack)

When he was 4, the ninja war was in progress, so 5-4=1.

A year after the end of the 3rd shinobi world war, the kyuubi attacked.

Since Kakashi was 14 during the attack, that means when kakashi was 13 the 3rd ninja war was taking place.

But that's not all. Carefully read what Tobi said:

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'During the 3rd shinobi world war, Itachi, barely four years old, witnessed countless people slaughtered in cold blood'

During the 3rd shinobi world war, Itachi was 4 years old. Meaning during, or for the duration of.

What this scan says is , really: 'for the duration of the 3rd shinobi world war, Itachi was 4 years old'
Meaning the 3rd shinobi wolrd war only lasted for a year. Here's the definition of 'during':
Throughout the course or duration of

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There is a second definition, but it cannot apply. Because Tobi just said that during the 3rd war, Itachi was 4.

Had it been said: 'itachi got wounded during the 3rd shinobi world war', this can mean at any time in the shinobi war and does'nt specify time. But when it says 'during the war, itachi was 4 years old', it HAS to mean 'for the duration of'.

In other words, its just been proven that the 3rd shinobi world war lasted less than a year, while Itachi was 4. And the battle of the Kannabi bridge occured in the same war, meaning Kakashi was 13, and therefore the same age as Obito.

P.S: This is confirmed when Tobi says that for a 4 year old, war is hell. Meaning Itachi was only 4 years old while the war happened, not less or more.

While I've never thought, that any of the wars lasted more than about a year, this point doesn't really prove it.
The translation is also to be taken with a grain of salt. You need to interpret it in Japanese terms, and not English, so clinging to single words, is not a safe way of interpreting the manga.

Also as I understand it, Obito simply says, that when Itachi was barely 4 years old, he witnessed a lot of people being killed. It doesn't point anything out about the length of the war, since "during" in this term, is referring to a certain event "during" the actual war, and not the war itself. It was one happening, where many people died. Notice how he specifies Itachi age, when he witnessed people dying. This suggests it is a specific point in time, and not during the whole war.
But as I said in the start, it's really hard to interpret the sentences so deeply, when it's some free English scan. You need to look up the Japanese words, and see their meaning.

 

[NarutoKage2]

While I've never thought, that any of the wars lasted more than about a year, this point doesn't really prove it.
The translation is also to be taken with a grain of salt. You need to interpret it in Japanese terms, and not English, so clinging to single words, is not a safe way of interpreting the manga.

Also as I understand it, Obito simply says, that when Itachi was barely 4 years old, he witnessed a lot of people being killed. It doesn't point anything out about the length of the war, since "during" in this term, is referring to a certain event "during" the actual war, and not the war itself. It was one happening, where many people died. Notice how he specifies Itachi age, when he witnessed people dying. This suggests it is a specific point in time, and not during the whole war.
But as I said in the start, it's really hard to interpret the sentences so deeply, when it's some free English scan. You need to look up the Japanese words, and see their meaning.

Actually the very fact that Itachi was stated to be 4 years old twice in that scan does prove it.

He's 4 years old, when he witnesses a war.

Even if that was the correct translation, or even any variant of it, its undeniable proof because what it would mean is that at that specific time, said event occurred. At age 4, Itachi witnessed the 3rd great shinobi world war. To my mind this completely seals it.

The translations, even if they messed up completely, cannot have messed up on Itachi's age stated twice during one page.

Itachi, at age 4 witnessed a lot of people killed during the 3rd shinobi world war. Re phrase it as you like, since the age has been specified during an event, it proves that said event occurred during said time, i.e the 3rd shinobi world war occurred while Itachi was 4.

 

[iSpeak]

That's a very good point, plus reps.


Look, its fairly certain based off what the game just proved, that in the entire flashback of ch 599:
1.nowhere is it stated how long the flashback is occurring, is it all just one year, two or more
2. Kakashi became a chuunin first, obito failed.
3. Obito tried again, eventually he became a chuunin

Obito's graduation age was given in the second databook. The second. Databooks have stated outdated things, that get disproven in the manga, the newer databooks improve upon them. Seriously, if something is not making logical sense like this then disregard it.
The 3rd databook says and i quote:

'After dropping out of the record books, Madara puts on a mask and moves into action as Tobi'

For Nagato's character:

'In order to protect his friends, he opts to awaken his rinnegan'.

Many things, especially when they were written years ago like in the 2nd databook, need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

The reason kishi never edited ch 599 in the volume is because he's unaware of naruto nerds on the net who still cling to the 2nd databook like a divine text while reading recent manga, lol.

Thegame proved what? Even he says he is not sure himself...

This whole "databook outdated" is getting annoying. If that is the case then how do we know Itachi was 18 during part 1 naruto? How do we know Kakashi is 30 years old now? You use facts from the databook yourself so please don't bring up that excuse. If you don't trust any of the datebooks then there is no point creating this thread in the first place.
Madara being revealed was a plot change. It would be stupid to state that Tobi is Obito when we don't even know ourselves yet. But Kakashi and Obito's age never change... he cant become chunnin and age 6, then later on become chuunin at age 7 or something.

Bump.
@ everyone: another proof just came to mind. In this scan:

You must be registered for see links

Itachi is stated to be 'barely 4 years old'.
This can help. Let's see, Itachi's age at part 2=21

16 years ago, the kyuubi attacked. 21-16= 5 (itachi was 5 during the kyuubi attack)

When he was 4, the ninja war was in progress, so 5-4=1.

A year after the end of the 3rd shinobi world war, the kyuubi attacked.

Since Kakashi was 14 during the attack, that means when kakashi was 13 the 3rd ninja war was taking place.

But that's not all. Carefully read what Tobi said:

You must be registered for see links

'During the 3rd shinobi world war, Itachi, barely four years old, witnessed countless people slaughtered in cold blood'

During the 3rd shinobi world war, Itachi was 4 years old. Meaning during, or for the duration of.

What this scan says is , really: 'for the duration of the 3rd shinobi world war, Itachi was 4 years old'
Meaning the 3rd shinobi wolrd war only lasted for a year. Here's the definition of 'during':
Throughout the course or duration of

You must be registered for see links

There is a second definition, but it cannot apply. Because Tobi just said that during the 3rd war, Itachi was 4.

Had it been said: 'itachi got wounded during the 3rd shinobi world war', this can mean at any time in the shinobi war and does'nt specify time. But when it says 'during the war, itachi was 4 years old', it HAS to mean 'for the duration of'.

In other words, its just been proven that the 3rd shinobi world war lasted less than a year, while Itachi was 4. And the battle of the Kannabi bridge occured in the same war, meaning Kakashi was 13, and therefore the same age as Obito.

P.S: This is confirmed when Tobi says that for a 4 year old, war is hell. Meaning Itachi was only 4 years old while the war happened, not less or more.

I don't usually like to quote other people for me but thegame has already answered your question as I would, and quite well actually.
You can't possibly work out how long the war lasted simply based on the word "during".
In the link you gave me, it even states a meaning of "during":
"at some time or point in the course of"
Meaning at some time or point in the course of the war, Itachi was 4 and witnessed many deaths. Simple.
During doesn't have to mean he was there from the beginning.

Itachi being 4 years old when the war ended doesn't disprove what I said in any way. Infact, I used his age in my calculations as you can see in my post #22.

 

[NarutoKage2]

I don't usually like to quote other people for me but thegame has already answered your question as I would, and quite well actually.
You can't possibly work out how long the war lasted simply based on the word "during".
In the link you gave me, it even states a meaning of "during":
"at some time or point in the course of"
Meaning at some time or point in the course of the war, Itachi was 4 and witnessed many deaths. Simple.
During doesn't have to mean he was there from the beginning.

Itachi being 4 years old when the war ended doesn't disprove what I said in any way. Infact, I used his age in my calculations as you can see in my post #22.

And i already answered thegame as well.

Except that that second definition cannot apply, it makes no sense and is illogical. A period of time has been specified, its amazing that you still can't see this obvious fact.

Itachi was 4 years old while the 3rd shinobi world war took place. This clearly says that:

1. A specific event took place, i.e the 3rd great shinobi world war
2. It was when Itachi was 4 years old

Meaning that it happened during the time he was 4.

It cannot be any more or less, as stating Itachi's specific age would be meaningless. Since a time frame has been stated, it shows that the war lasted for a year at most, since Itachi's age was 4 'for the duration of'(during) the war.

P.S: Re read what you yourself just wrote(bolded). What does the second definition say? 'At some time'..

That only applies when no time has been specified, as it says 'at some time' but over here we have been given a specific time, i.e the time when Itachi was 4 years old. Therefore the 3rd shinobi world war could not have lasted for more than a year.

 

[iSpeak]

And i already answered thegame as well.

Except that that second definition cannot apply, it makes no sense and is illogical. A period of time has been specified, its amazing that you still can't see this obvious fact.

Itachi was 4 years old while the 3rd shinobi world war took place. This clearly says that:

1. A specific event took place, i.e the 3rd great shinobi world war
2. It was when Itachi was 4 years old

Meaning that it happened during the time he was 4.

It cannot be any more or less, as stating Itachi's specific age would be meaningless. Since a time frame has been stated, it shows that the war lasted for a year at most, since Itachi's age was 4 'for the duration of'(during) the war.

P.S: Re read what you yourself just wrote(bolded). What does the second definition say? 'At some time'..

That only applies when no time has been specified, as it says 'at some time' but over here we have been given a specific time, i.e the time when Itachi was 4 years old. Therefore the 3rd shinobi world war could not have lasted for more than a year.

Itachi was 4 years old while the 3rd shinobi world war took place

Nope, this is where you are wrong. You are trying to reword what Tobi is saying.
Tobi says Itachi was 4 years old when he witnessed countless shinobi slaughtered during the 3rd Shinobi war.
This means that at some point in the 3rd Shinobi war, Itachi was 4 years old and witnessed many Shinobi die. Its as simple as that. Its not hard to understand...

 

[NarutoKage2]

Nope, this is where you are wrong. You are trying to reword what Tobi is saying.
Tobi says Itachi was 4 years old when he witnessed countless shinobi slaughtered during the 3rd Shinobi war.
This means that at some point in the 3rd Shinobi war, Itachi was 4 years old and witnessed many Shinobi die. Its as simple as that. Its not hard to understand...

Why do you keep on ignoring the bolded?
Itachi was 4 years old when he witnessed countless shinobi slaughtered, etc DURING THE 3RD SHINOBI WORLD WAR.
In the above sentence, simply put a bracket from 'when' to 'slaughtered' and you'll get my point.

It is simple, but its implications are being ignored by you. Often the subtlest, simplest things can mean a lot, this is one of those times.

Ok, let me ask you this: why was itachi's age even stated? Not once, but twice? Why would tobi even tell us he was 4 years old unless it was to signify that for the duration of that war, that was his age?

And again with the 'some time' during the war. Kindly refrain from talking out of your ass. Lets stick to the manga, ok? This is what Tobi says:

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'During the 3rd ninja world war, itachi, barely four years of age....'

How does that imply that 'at some point..'?

If there is a sentence:

'During our game, the day of independence, we witnessed quite a scene'

What does that sentence mean? That the game was on the day of independence, duh. It DOESNT mean that the game was also played 3 days in a row before independence day, which is your logic in a nutshell.

*You*: 'that just means that at some point in the game, it was the day of independence.'

Do you see how flawed your logic is now?

 

[iSpeak]

Why do you keep on ignoring the bolded?
Itachi was 4 years old when he witnessed countless shinobi slaughtered, etc DURING THE 3RD SHINOBI WORLD WAR.
In the above sentence, simply put a bracket from 'when' to 'slaughtered' and you'll get my point.

It is simple, but its implications are being ignored by you. Often the subtlest, simplest things can mean a lot, this is one of those times.

Ok, let me ask you this: why was itachi's age even stated? Not once, but twice? Why would tobi even tell us he was 4 years old unless it was to signify that for the duration of that war, that was his age?

And again with the 'some time' during the war. Kindly refrain from talking out of your ass. Lets stick to the manga, ok? This is what Tobi says:

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'During the 3rd ninja world war, itachi, barely four years of age....'

How does that imply that 'at some point..'?

If there is a sentence:

'During our game, the day of independence, we witnessed quite a scene'

What does that sentence mean? That the game was on the day of independence, duh. It DOESNT mean that the game was also played 3 days in a row before independence day, which is your logic in a nutshell.

*You*: 'that just means that at some point in the game, it was the day of independence.'

Do you see how flawed your logic is now?

Honestly I cant believe I am even having this conversation. There is no point even arguing with you if you can't understand simple sentences. Both me and thegame say you are wrong yet you are still in denail.

Tobi says Itachi's age to signify his age when he witnessed the slaughter of shinobi.

"During the 3rd Ninja world war, Itachi barely 4 years old witnessed countless people slaughtered in cold blood."

Meaning at some time or point in the course of the war, Itachi was 4 and witnessed many deaths. It is so simple.

'During the 3rd ninja world war, itachi, barely four years of age....'

FINISH OFF THE SENTANCE!

During the 3rd Ninja world war, Itachi barely 4 years old witnessed countless people slaughtered in cold blood

Itachi barely 4 years old witnessed countless people slaughtered in cold blood during the 3rd Ninja war.

At some point during the 3rd Ninja war, Itachi witnessed countless people slaughtered in cold blood at the age of 4. It is so simple geez, how can someone be this stupid as to not understand. He didn't witness them at 3, he didn't witness them at 5, he witnessed them when he was barely 4.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Meaning at some time or point in the course of the war, Itachi was 4 and witnessed many deaths. It is so simple.

Stop pulling facts out of your ass, hypocrite. Learn to read, nowhere does it state or imply that 'at some point or time'

During the 3rd Ninja world war, Itachi barely 4 years old witnessed countless people slaughtered in cold blood

No shit sherlock

Itachi barely 4 years old witnessed countless people slaughtered in cold blood during the 3rd Ninja war.

Yeah, and...?

At some point during the 3rd Ninja war, Itachi witnessed countless people slaughtered in cold blood at the age of 4. It is so simple geez, how can someone be this stupid as to not understand. He didn't witness them at 3, he didn't witness them at 5, he witnessed them when he was barely 4.

BS. Where does the manga state or even imply the words 'at some point'? Can you show me a single scan that says or suggests so? No? Then don't push your speculations on me, ok?

EXACTLY. He did'nt witness them at 3, or 5. He witnessed them at 4, during the 3rd shinobi war. And kids are'nt blind when they're 3, either.

You are dumb. Unbelievably dumb. I don't even know why i'm bothering to take the time to respond and explain all this stuff to you, both me and IKskorps, who has spend months making a timeline thread, agree that you can't even comprehend simple things. Fck my stubbornness.

 

[iSpeak]

Yawn I cant even be bothered with this anymore, sometimes I wonder why I even try with these ignorant kids.
Learn to read them come back to me.
Both me and thegame have explained to you why you are wrong, yet you still cant accept it and stay in denial.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Yawn I cant even be bothered with this anymore, sometimes I wonder why I even try with these ignorant kids.
Learn to read them come back to me.
Both me and thegame have explained to you why you are wrong, yet you still cant accept it and stay in denial.

Says he can't be bothered, and keeps responding. Kid? Ok lol think that if you want to.

You're one of the most ignorantly dogmatic members i've had the misfortune of debating with.

 

[Meowazziel]

Maybe Kagami was the third one though.

 

[BlacLord™]

I like this thread because my name is in it! :3

On a more serious note, Itachi would not have time to work out Koto's time gap between usages, and it has been clearly stated it took ten years, which with the idea of Shisui being around 23 at the time of his death, he would have time to work that out for himself.

 

[iSpeak]

Says he can't be bothered, and keeps responding. Kid? Ok lol think that if you want to.

You're one of the most ignorantly dogmatic members i've had the misfortune of debating with.

Thanks, you too! =D

 

[NarutoKage2]

Maybe Kagami was the third one though.

Very possible. However i only meant 'known MS users' as mentioned in the Op, though.

I like this thread because my name is in it! :3

On a more serious note, Itachi would not have time to work out Koto's time gap between usages, and it has been clearly stated it took ten years, which with the idea of Shisui being around 23 at the time of his death, he would have time to work that out for himself.

Yeah, agreed.
The 10 year koto recharge idea you pointed out in my last thread was a great idea as i said before, and i still believe it to be the case.

Thanks, you too! =D

For someone who can't be bothered, you sure get bothered quite a lot.

 

[kisamexRocks]

Wasn't Shisui the same age or slightly older than Itachi? Itachi was what, in his really early 20's? Shisui is the 4th not third to awaken his MS.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Spoiler

Nope, this is where you are wrong. You are trying to reword what Tobi is saying.
Tobi says Itachi was 4 years old when he witnessed countless shinobi slaughtered during the 3rd Shinobi war.
This means that at some point in the 3rd Shinobi war, Itachi was 4 years old and witnessed many Shinobi die. Its as simple as that. Its not hard to understand...

This is the viz translation, courtesy of BlinkST:

"But when Itachi was only four years old...
...The third great ninja war took place

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Tsssk, burnt bitch.

It did'nt take place when he was 3 or 2/1, it took place when he was 4.
As it turns out, the so called 're wording' that you said i did, is exactly what the 100% correct translation says.

Meaning the 3rd shinobi war only lasted for a year, and Kakashi and Obito ARE the same age.

Deal with it.

 

[sthomasf]

Problem is that you are assuming that Shisui had the MS 10 years before because he knew about the KA 10 year limit. That is not provable at the slightest.

Most likely happened, once he awakened MS he was able to read the Uchiha Tablet or some other Uchiha secret scroll and got info about KA that way.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Problem is that you are assuming that Shisui had the MS 10 years before because he knew about the KA 10 year limit. That is not provable at the slightest.

Most likely happened, once he awakened MS he was able to read the Uchiha Tablet or some other Uchiha secret scroll and got info about KA that way.

Then first YOU have to provide proof that there's information about Koto Amatsukami written on the uchiha stone tablet.

If you cannot do that, and since no mangekyuo ability in specific has ever been shown to have been described on said tablet, this is the only possible explanation. Since the burden of proof is on you to prove how the decade time limit was known, not me as i already gave my explanation in this thread.