He was teammates with Hiruzen, who just got promoted to HOKAGE. He had to have been a jounin since Konoha was'nt dumb enough to send fodders on a mission against master bounty nins.
That's a very good point, and i'll add it to the OP. Its especially a good point as from the time that Shisui gave his eyes to Itachi, Sasuke was 6. 10 years later when Sasuke was 16, Itachi gave Naruto the eyes, so he could'nt possibly have tested the time limit himself.
Itachi uses the eyes about 10 years after he received them, which would explain the 10 year time wait. It is possible Itachi tried himself to use it sooner, but could not be done.
The reason I say Kagami was a chuunin is because jounins typically lead groups (even Kakashi at 13 led his group).
But okay, let's say that Kagami had Shisui at 20-30, (and once again assume that he is the same age as Hiruzen). That means Shisui, at the time of the Uchiha massacre would have been anywhere from 32-42. (Hiruzen died at 68-69, subtract 6 years for the Uchiha massacre gets us 62-63 years for Kagami. If Kagami had Shisui when he was 20-30, that ends up making Shisui's age range from 32-43 years old at the time of the massacre while Itachi was 12-13.)
EDIT: Yes, Shisui being that old would allow him ample time to work on his sharingan skills, but this would roughly make him the same age as Fugaku (Itachi/Sasuke's father) which he does not look that old; given your estimates.
It is a valid point, however plenty of characters know the subtle nuances of their jutsu that they shouldn't. How did kakashi know kamui was named kamui? How did obito know susano'o was a rare unlock for the mangekyou if 2 of the 4 users had it.
Besides this, the fact that headquarters had info on obito's 5 limit kamui usage could mean that these things were recorded somewhere (possibly on the uchiha tablet) for anyone who potentially unlocked them.
Doubt the Uchiha tablet has anything on Koto Amatasukami. No, in fact i'm certain it does'nt. Would Itachi give those eyes to Naruto, intending for him to use on Sasuke, when Sasuke was told by Itachi himself to read the tablet? Plan could have backfired.
Itachi uses the eyes about 10 years after he received them, which would explain the 10 year time wait. It is possible Itachi tried himself to use it sooner, but could not be done.
The reason I say Kagami was a chuunin is because jounins typically lead groups (even Kakashi at 13 led his group).
But okay, let's say that Kagami had Shisui at 20-30, (and once again assume that he is the same age as Hiruzen). That means Shisui, at the time of the Uchiha massacre would have been anywhere from 32-42. (Hiruzen died at 68-69, subtract 6 years for the Uchiha massacre gets us 62-63 years for Kagami. If Kagami had Shisui when he was 20-30, that ends up making Shisui's age range from 32-43 years old at the time of the massacre while Itachi was 12-13.)
Its completely impossible. If Itachi used it at the massacre, he then would'nt know why the eye no longer can use KA. He'd have to co incidentally attempt to use the jutsu 10 years later to figure it out. But then he'd need a further 10 years to use them again, also impossible. He gave the eyes to Naruto, meaning they had'nt been used in 10 years at least, i.e ever since the time of the massacre.
Yeah you're right plus or minus 2 years. Actually the massacre occurred 7 years prior to part 1, not 6. When the akatsuki meet at the end of part 1, they mention that its been 7 years since Oro left them. Which he did after Itachi joined, obviously.
Its completely impossible. If Itachi used it at the massacre, he then would'nt know why the eye no longer can use KA. He'd have to co incidentally attempt to use the jutsu 10 years later to figure it out. But then he'd need a further 10 years to use them again, also impossible. He gave the eyes to Naruto, meaning they had'nt been used in 10 years at least, i.e ever since the time of the massacre.
Yeah you're right plus or minus 2 years. Actually the massacre occurred 7 years prior to part 1, not 6. When the akatsuki meet at the end of part 1, they mention that its been 7 years since Oro left them. Which he did after Itachi joined, obviously.
Impossible? No. I never said Itachi used it at the Uchiha massacre, I simply implied that he knew Shisui tried using KA before Danzo took his right eye, and that Danzo was after his left as well. It could be that Itachi never used it until his ET control was overwritten (chapter 550, specifically page 5), as he never intended it to be used on himself.
And even if we do disagree about the ten year wait, you can't possibly believe that Shisui was closer in age to Fugaku than Itachi, which your estimates provide given that Kagami had Shisui in his 20's-30's.
Impossible? No. I never said Itachi used it at the Uchiha massacre, I simply implied that he knew Shisui tried using KA before Danzo took his right eye, and that Danzo was after his left as well. It could be that Itachi never used it until his ET control was overwritten (chapter 550, specifically page 5), as he never intended it to be used on himself.
And even if we do disagree about the ten year wait, you can't possibly believe that Shisui was closer in age to Fugaku than Itachi, which your estimates provide given that Kagami had Shisui in his 20's-30's.
If he did'nt use it at the massacre it does'nt explain how he knew about the 10 year wait.
That point made by BlacLord has actually changed this thread from high speculation to low. It does'nt matter what his age is, its pretty much proven that he had Mangekyuo for 10 years. 6 years before he died there was the Kyuubi attack, and what? One, two years before that Obito saw Rin die. He'd still have to awaken his Mangekyuo 2 years before Obito(10-(6+2))
If he did'nt use it at the massacre it does'nt explain how he knew about the 10 year wait.
That point made by BlacLord has actually changed this thread from high speculation to low. It does'nt matter what his age is, its pretty much proven that he had Mangekyuo for 10 years. 6 years before he died there was the Kyuubi attack, and what? One, two years before that Obito saw Rin die. He'd still have to awaken his Mangekyuo 2 years before Obito(10-(6+2))
It has been stated Shisui tried to use KA before giving Itachi his remaining eye, and Itachi could have just not been able to use it up until this point (Itachi states "good it came out" 550, page 1; implying there is a chance it could not have come out). And yes, age does matter, because if Shisui was as old as you say, the relationship between him and Itachi would not be brotherly, and would resemble more of a father-son relationship. Also, Shisui would likely have had kids by the time he was 32-42.
You are also conveniently assuming that Kakashi killed Rin one or two years before the Kyuubi Incident. Look at chapters 502 page 2 (Kyuubi Incident) and chapter 605 page 1 (Kakashi killing Rin). There are noticeable differences in height and appearance between those periods, more so than just a year or two.
You can disagree, that's fine, but I am using manga and math to show you that it is improbable that Shisui awoke his MS before Obito.
It has been stated Shisui tried to use KA before giving Itachi his remaining eye, and Itachi could have just not been able to use it up until this point (Itachi states "good it came out" 550, page 1; implying there is a chance it could not have come out). And yes, age does matter, because if Shisui was as old as you say, the relationship between him and Itachi would not be brotherly, and would resemble more of a father-son relationship. Also, Shisui would likely have had kids by the time he was 32-42.
You are also conveniently assuming that Kakashi killed Rin one or two years before the Kyuubi Incident. Look at chapters 502 page 2 (Kyuubi Incident) and chapter 605 page 1 (Kakashi killing Rin). There are noticeable differences in height and appearance between those periods, more so than just a year or two.
You can disagree, that's fine, but I am using manga and math to show you that it is improbable that Shisui awoke his MS before Obito.
Not necessarily. Naruto and Nagato were friends as i already stated, and there are families where siblings have an age difference of 15-20 years. Why would Shisui have had to have kids? Jiraiya never had any, he was in his fifties.
'Conveniently assuming'? Really, now? Let's do some math and basic logical inference. Kakashi is 29-30 years of age right now. Source:
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The Kyuubi attack happened 16 years ago, the day Naruto was born. Here's proof for that:
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30-16= 14.
So Kakashi was 14 during the Kyuubi attack. Obito and Kakash were teammates and so clearly the same age. Obito was 13 when he supposedly died:
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So 14-13=1 . Meaning only 1 year later, when he was 14, Obito attacked Konoha using the Kyuubi. Your argument about looks is invalid now.
Now, to prove Shisui awoke his Mangekyuo before Obito:
When did the Uchiha massacre happen? Orochimaru left Akatsuki when Itachi joined, which was immediately after the massacre, stated here:
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Now, this scan:
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Proves that the massacre happened 7 years before part 1. Sasuke was 13 in part 1:
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So 13-7= 6.
The time between the Kyuubi attack and the Uchiha massacre was 6 years.
Meaning Shisui, who gave his mangekyuo to Itachi on the eve of the massacre, had to have had MS for at least 10 years before that to know about Koto Amatsukami's 10 year time limit.
I already proved that the gap between Kannabi bridge and the Konoha attack was not more than a year, so Obito could'nt possibly have awoke his mangekyuo before Shisui.
np man, thank you. Most people not familiar with the timeline and the implications of your point don't realize it, but what you stated has completely turned this thread around. Thanks!
