COME ON IN im fine

[foxyladyland]

& If he was under , KA He wouldn't show any emotions.
Towards protecting the Leaf village, But...
Towards Sasuke was a Different Story..

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

& Also why would he show emotions towards the ones that want to destroy on of the things he loves to Protect..

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

I'm going to pass out _@:

he showed emotion to sasuke while he was an edo and under KA to protect the leaf this has been answered already..
he is his older brother.. KA doesn't take emotion away from you, just like genjutsu doesn't at all...
unless you are told to become emotionless under it..

itachi didn't want sasuke to destroy the leaf and he hasn't tried to yet..
itachi was showing him the love of an older brother that sasuke wanted.
itachi was doing the same thing hashirama is doing now to sasuke by
trying to talk him out of it.. apparently itachi's words and emotion was working on sasuke
because he started crying. itachi even hugged sasuke while he was under KA see

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

sasuke endured violence his whole life, positive emotion would calm him down
its kinda like talk no jutsu

 

[DeDoll]

He was found dead by uchihas. You need to see it ?
About kurama this is just your guessing.
Itachi don't stop Sasuke Because you say he can choose what is best for his idea.
Itachi could destroy his family without KA, he is like Hokage, and hokage destroy his favorite student if here is need.

But anyway:
You see, its no point to argue with you. Itachi goal was to save village & Uchiha name, Shisui goal was the same. But anyway Itachi did't change a bit even if genjutsu was used on him.
How we could proove that this is false theory is by timming. But than you made other theory about ninetail chakra.
So what i am saying: This is nothing to think about. Nothing was changed even he use KA or he did't.

Don't you agree ?

 

[Ninja Hidden in the Leafs]

whether or not its in a human eyesocket doesn't have anything to do with KA being activated.
I didn't say those words.
shisui might have been able to use genjutsu with his fingers just as itachi did.
no proof
I never said the eye would close ,. those were quotes , I said they would not close like izanagi.
the KA just cant be used more than once within a decade... the eye still works..
the eye could have still been pointed at him. in the pic , he has his hand , but
just like with sasuke forgetting he awakened the sharingan at the massacre./
and like kakashi awakening MS while he killed rin,
it was though that they awakened them during his fight with haku
and kakashi during time skip and used it later on deidara.

Sorry, but this theory will now be disproven. I give you the link of where as soon as KA is used on Itachi the sharingan reverts back to a three tomae.

You must be registered for see links

Now I will give you 3 reasons of why your thesis is wrong.

1. What you are doing now is hearsay. Even if Shisui was able to "implant" his KA like Itachi did, wouldn't he have been touching Itachi like a poke or something.

2. Honestly, I apologize but I did not clearly understand the rest of what you were trying to say. It seemed like you were saying something like these people awakened a certain form of sharingan based on what happened right in front of them but than forgot the experience but remembered later on. There are also flaws with this.

A. It was not Kakashi who "awakened" the Mangekyo, it was Obito. Since he is not an Uchiha, he still would not have been able to unlock the mangekyo no matter if he killed everyone in the village.

B. Your trying to base your theory on other theories. At least somewhere there has to be some kind of evidence of what you say is true, otherwise it's just a bunch of ideas that can never be proven right or wrong.

3. Even though at first you did put up a valuable argument, you are now basing your ideas upon other ideas. Until you can give some kind of proof whether what you say is right or what I say is wrong, either or, than we have nothing further to discuss. I have shown you that when the KA is used it reverts back to a regular sharingan. In the manga pic you have given, the last we see of it is taken out by Shisui's own hand who than says protect the leaf who then reaches out to give Itachi, he did not however "touch" Itachi as far as we know let alone have the skill to be able to do the same as Itachi did to Sasuke.

I hope this has been a reasonable debate and hopefully the new manga is out

 

[foxyladyland]

He was found dead by uchihas. You need to see it ?
About kurama this is just your guessing.
Itachi don't stop Sasuke Because you say he can choose what is best for his idea.
Itachi could destroy his family without KA, he is like Hokage, and hokage destroy his favorite student if here is need.

I saw that already but this isn't what this is about.
Protect Konoha, everyone has a different way on how to protect something.
its a simple command without further instructions..
do what you feel is best to protect...however you know how.

But anyway:
You see, its no point to argue with you. Itachi goal was to save village & Uchiha name, Shisui goal was the same. But anyway Itachi did't change a bit even if genjutsu was used on him.

yes , there goals were the same, but doing and thinking are 2 different things.
Shisui acted sooner than Itachi did. and tried to stop the rebellion with KA, but danzo stopped him..
Itachi didn't try to do anything before Danzo stole Shisui's eye...all itachi did was report to Sarutobi.

How we could proove that this is false theory is by timming. But than you made other theory about ninetail chakra.

10 year rule
the nine tails chakra theory and uzumaki chakra inside naruto is extremely plausible.
because the senju & uzumaki are related.
and naruto has Kurama's chakra inside of him..

the senju dna can be used to shorten the reactivation time.
so can kurama's chakra.. which resides in naruto...
the crow was also placed inside naruto...which is the same place as kurama's chakra..
this explains the 10 year rule KA used in 8 years
we see how many time kakashi and the others received chakra from kurama
to fight during the war... kurama's chakra works better than senju dna.
naruto can pass it out at will to give people more energy and chakra and stamina...
the same thing senju dna was and is used for by danzo with the stolen sharingans.

 

[Forsberg]

I'm just like yourself very confident that KA have been used on Itachi but alright, i'll play.

Itachi loved Konoha and was a pacifist, against war at the age of four. WAY before Shisui could have affected him with genjutsu.

 

[DeDoll]

I saw that already but this isn't what this is about.
Protect Konoha, everyone has a different way on how to protect something.
its a simple command without further instructions..
do what you feel is best to protect...however you know how.

yes , there goals were the same, but doing and thinking are 2 different things.
Shisui acted sooner than Itachi did. and tried to stop the rebellion with KA, but danzo stopped him..
Itachi didn't try to do anything before Danzo stole Shisui's eye...all itachi did was report to Sarutobi. You telling us that shisui is idiot ?



10 year rule
the nine tails chakra theory and uzumaki chakra inside naruto is extremely plausible.
because the senju & uzumaki are related.
and naruto has Kurama's chakra inside of him..

the senju dna can be used to shorten the reactivation time.
so can kurama's chakra.. which resides in naruto...
the crow was also placed inside naruto...which is the same place as kurama's chakra..
this explains the 10 year rule KA used in 8 years
we see how many time kakashi and the others received chakra from kurama
to fight during the war... kurama's chakra works better than senju dna.
naruto can pass it out at will to give people more energy and chakra and stamina...
the same thing senju dna was and is used for by danzo with the stolen sharingans.

Itachi did't do anything ? He try convince uchihas before that.
And after Shisui death he had to go to Hokage, because others uchiha's dont trust him anymore.
And danzo offer him to destroy Uchihas, so what i wanna say Itachi didt change his thinking he just had to do that, not because of genjutsu, but because nothing else was left for him.

My question is why shisui should waste his eye for nothing made it usless for 10 years ? Coz Itachi would do the same anyway.
You think Shisui is idiot ?

And about 10 years and ninetail chakra its only theory.

 

[foxyladyland]

Sorry, but this theory will now be disproven. I give you the link of where as soon as KA is used on Itachi the sharingan reverts back to a three tomae.

You must be registered for see links

Now I will give you 3 reasons of why your thesis is wrong.

1. What you are doing now is hearsay. Even if Shisui was able to "implant" his KA like Itachi did, wouldn't he have been touching Itachi like a poke or something.

2. Honestly, I apologize but I did not clearly understand the rest of what you were trying to say. It seemed like you were saying something like these people awakened a certain form of sharingan based on what happened right in front of them but than forgot the experience but remembered later on. There are also flaws with this.

A. It was not Kakashi who "awakened" the Mangekyo, it was Obito. Since he is not an Uchiha, he still would not have been able to unlock the mangekyo no matter if he killed everyone in the village.

B. Your trying to base your theory on other theories. At least somewhere there has to be some kind of evidence of what you say is true, otherwise it's just a bunch of ideas that can never be proven right or wrong.

3. Even though at first you did put up a valuable argument, you are now basing your ideas upon other ideas. Until you can give some kind of proof whether what you say is right or what I say is wrong, either or, than we have nothing further to discuss. I have shown you that when the KA is used it reverts back to a regular sharingan. In the manga pic you have given, the last we see of it is taken out by Shisui's own hand who than says protect the leaf who then reaches out to give Itachi, he did not however "touch" Itachi as far as we know let alone have the skill to be able to do the same as Itachi did to Sasuke.

I hope this has been a reasonable debate and hopefully the new manga is out

this has all been explained , you're not getting the gist of it...theory isn't proof or fact, its theory, ideas...

alirght look this is all of it in a nutshell..

if shisui cast KA on itachi to protect the village
then itachi will do whatever he thinks is the way to protect the village...
he doesn't kill sasuke because Itachi knows sasuke doesn't know anything about the plot to destroy the leaf.

shisui's MS was still active the last time he went to see itachi so he did it there.

we never saw that MS deactivate while shisui was alive.

he gives it to itachi (not implant, maybe) and itachi keeps it safe and stores it in a crow..

you can still show emotion while under KA and other genjutsu...
if you are ordered to show emotion you will, unless you are ordered to be emotionless.

after KA broke Edo Itachi out of Kabuto's control, Itachi is still shown behaving like any regular person..
he even has conversations with multiple characters all throughout his time as an Edo.

He also shows emotion (as an Edo) to Sasuke and even Kabuto
and explains to him on how to accept himself and break out of Izanami...

KA is still cast on Itachi as he hugs Sasuke 1 last time before the Edo are withdrawn.

but how is it able to be used in 8 years time
if KA was cast on itachi and itachi didn't know about it
then he would still act as if it was never cast on him , in his mind it wasn't used on him
when he gave it to naruto via that crow. Itachi didn't look at the eye while he was giving
it to naruto , he just sent it through him somehow with the crow(like giving out chakra)

and already programmed it to work on his eyes if sasuke inserted them.

but if Shisui used it on itachi before the massacre, and it was used on itachi during the war
that would only be 8 years difference. not the usual 10.

how can that be used again then...well, I already explained it...
the crow with KA was placed inside naruto..with the 9tails..
the 9tails chakra has already been shown to speed up jutsu reactivation time with kakashi by giving more chakra.
and uzumaki are relatives of the senju..(I thought this was obvious to everyone by now)

and itachi has shown to program a jutsu to activate before it is even used once by the jutsu wielder..
sasuke used amateratsu on Tobi before he ever awakened it, because itachi programmed it to do so.

same thing with KA (shisui's MS eye & crow) itachi didn't know (??) it wasn't MS anymore
when he programmed it to activate KA on his own eyes implanted by Sasuke.

it was luck(??) that he gave it to naruto and it used kurama's chakra to reactivate quicker than
the full 10 years time length.

 

[DeDoll]

And i wanna add one more thing. Itachi did it, because he is Uchiha And love is most impotant thing for Uachihas.

Danzo told that Sasuke would be killed with others uchihas otherwise.
So he did it to Protect his younger brother.

And Shisui don't tell him kill all uchihas. So why you saying that he woudnt kill His family without genjutsu ?

 

[foxyladyland]

Itachi did't do anything ? He try convince uchihas before that.

itachi didn't try with violence to stop them. it wasn't shown that he even tried to talk them out of it..
he actually had talks with his father , but we never heard anything about itachi trying to convince them to stop.

And after Shisui death he had to go to Hokage, because others uchiha's dont trust him anymore.

if you know, the uciha told shisui to keep a close eye on itachi , as they knew shisui was close to him already.
they already didn't fully trust itachi.. Fugaku had hope in itachi , but the others didn't
so they told shisui to watch him carefully.

My question is why shisui should waste his eye for nothing made it usless for 10 years ? Coz Itachi would do the same anyway.
You think Shisui is idiot ?

once again, Shisui knew itachi wouldn't want to kill his own family,
and shisui already tried to stop the rebellion via KA, and it was probably aiming to be cast on Fugaku(uchiha leader at that time)
who is also itachi's father, for the betterment of the Leaf and Uchiha, so why not cast it on itachi?
a boy who is faced with murdering his entire family to protect his home,
or facing war and more people including his little brother being slaughter.

also he wouldn't be wasting it as you've seen itachi had been reporting back to Hiruzen
while Shisui was the one who first took action and tried to stop it via genjutsu til Danzo stopped him.

Itachi was hesitant and still just a boy, it would also be little harder for itachi to stop the rebellion
since he didn't have KA, his only way would have been violence which is what he did.
besides, if he didn't use KA, then why didn't Itachi just use KA on Fugaku after Shisui's death?

And about 10 years and ninetail chakra its only theory.

that's what this whole thing is, a plausible theory
if you know anything about the senju dna and kurama's chakra
you know they both were and are used to enhance jutsu and chakra restore time
as it has been proven and shown all throughout the manga.

 

[Ninja Hidden in the Leafs]

Honestly, I was hoping you'd post again so I'd have something to debate while we wait for the manga. lol

Anyway, I don't need to know the definition of what theory is. But regarding your use of the word allow me to tell you that a theory is not just ideas. It is a "system" of ideas "intended to explain" something. You are not explaining anything, just ideas.

Like I just said in my previous posts. You need to have some sort of building block if you will and than work your way up. You cannot just assume things and than just base ideas of those assumptions. That's what moron's do.

Your telling me that Itachi knew what shisui's eye looked like, what his mangekyo did, and had it for at least 7 to 8 years, and not once he didn't look at it and realize it wasn't in its mangekyo state. Please tell me you are joking.

As of your nine tail theory that is all it is. A theory. Just because it restored a little of Kakashi's chakra does not mean kurama and naruto's chakra mix is like the senju cells.

Another thing about your theory of the crow and the eye regaining power.... do you remember the frog which happens to be the key to the seal which is still inside naruto. Yes the crow was put "inside" naruto but where did he "store" this crow. It couldn't have just gone anywhere could it, I mean its a freaking crow. I think it was stored somewhere like kurama was, in one of his subconcious cages if you will. Which means that it was just there, waiting to be awakened by Itachi's sharingan. Not receiving chakra from Kurama otherwise shouldn't Kushina and Minato also receive chakra sense they were also "inside" naruto.


Plus now you are bashing Itachi's sense of judgement and intelligence. I don't think he is the kind of guy who would throw a kunai in the air and hope out of luck it would hit his target in the face. He planned everything. If you would keep on reading that chapter you might just learn what happened to Shisui to. Of course its Itachi's version so who knows if its reliable, I mean after all we are just theorizing on questions that will never be answered, but hopefully you'll use that brain of yours, quit trying to fight an losing battle, and learn a little before trying to post ridiculousness. In no way am I bashing you, just your certain views on things.

One more thing. If your going to theorize and speculate on this subject, why can't we give you our theories that contrast with yours. From the last few posts it almost seems like only you can theorize while we the narutobase community have to give the facts, which by the way (some of us did)

 

[PredictionGuru]

Foxy, I'm about to come.

 

[DeDoll]

Itachi talking about it, thats why they comand Shisui to take eye on Itachi.

From your post:
once again, Shisui knew itachi wouldn't want to kill his own family,
One more theory. Enaught creating new ones.

Shisui never talk about Uchihas desturcion. He want to protect his clan. And idea about destruction Danzo gave to Itachi.

You saying First he kill His whole family because they made threat to the village but than he cant kill his younger brother when he making same threat. This is stupid don't you see ?
Same situation other actions.
Love make over him, so he didt love his father and mother so much. You say it not me.
This making the conclusion that he did everything for Sasuke.

 

[Ninja Hidden in the Leafs]

if you know anything about the senju dna and kurama's chakra
you know they both were and are used to enhance jutsu and chakra restore time
as it has been proven and shown all throughout the manga.

I'll take this opportunity so that I'm not "multi-posting to also say that where in the manga does it say that kurama's chakra and the senju dna were exactly the same. Yes they both have the same effects, however, I do believe one is stronger (has more effect if you will) than the other. So please show me exactly where it says they are both identical

 

[foxyladyland]

I can believe you would say that after all you've said...
but itachi kept that Shisui eye inside of his own body this whole time protected,
so he wouldn't need to check it.

theory is in the opening sentence of this thread.
its not new news if you read the OP.

you have seen what the 9tails chakra can do
and it restored kakashi's chakra more than a little bit, you know that..

you're not being reasonable; this is a theory and I've made it very plausible.

if you don't read the whole thing then you're obviously speaking from a one sided way of thinking right now..

I've not the need to show ton of manga proof as these are things you should already know if you really read the manga.

with the last explanations I've given , I think it should have been enough to show plausibility,

but you insist on the way things are not being able to have more of a backstory.

good luck proving your own arguments

 

[DeDoll]

Idea that Shisui want destroy his clan is nonsence.
So give theory why shisui should use KA on Itachi.

And when he talk with danzo, itachi hesitate about all plan. And if he would be on genjutsu he just do it

 

[foxyladyland]

Itachi talking about it, thats why they comand Shisui to take eye on Itachi.

From your post:
once again, Shisui knew itachi wouldn't want to kill his own family,
One more theory. Enaught creating new ones.

Shisui never talk about Uchihas desturcion. He want to protect his clan. And idea about destruction Danzo gave to Itachi.

You saying First he kill His whole family because they made threat to the village but than he cant kill his younger brother when he making same threat. This is stupid don't you see ?
Same situation other actions.
Love make over him, so he didt love his father and mother so much. You say it not me.
This making the conclusion that he did everything for Sasuke.

the whole uchiha plan would only come to fruition
via KA to Sarutobi or all out civil war on the leaf village.
Shisui was indeed a shinobi wasn't he? they fight and carry missions all the time.
it seems now you are calling shisui stupid that violence wouldn't be involved somehow
in any way to take back the leaf or stop someone from trying to rebel, violence would be almost certain.
btw: shisui knowing itachi wouldn't want to kill his own parents isn't a theory

I'll take this opportunity so that I'm not "multi-posting to also say that where in the manga does it say that kurama's chakra and the senju dna were exactly the same. Yes they both have the same effects, however, I do believe one is stronger (has more effect if you will) than the other. So please show me exactly where it says they are both identical

it doesn't say that, but you can see the similarities in the effects caused by them , can you not?
restore chakra, stamina, being able to use exhausting jutsu more in a smaller time span
says it all. also naruto is still uzumaki

this is a very plausible theory and your arguments aren't doing too much for you
although I expected them, ive already answered them with great answers and plausibility.

 

[DeDoll]

the whole uchiha plan would only come to fruition
via KA to Sarutobi or all out civil war on the leaf village.
Shisui was indeed a shinobi wasn't he? they fight and carry missions all the time.
it seems now you are calling shisui stupid that violence wouldn't be involved somehow
in any way to take back the leaf or stop someone from trying to rebel, violence would be almost certain.
btw: shisui knowing itachi wouldn't want to kill his own parents isn't a theory



it doesn't say that, but you can see the similarities in the effects caused by them , can you not?
restore chakra, stamina, being able to use exhausting jutsu more in a smaller time span
says it all. also naruto is still uzumaki

this is a very plausible theory and your arguments aren't doing too much for you
although I expected them, ive already answered them with great answers and plausibility.

So why he didt kill sasuke because its same situation ? And if you in genjutsu shoudnt you act same in same situation ? You told it he can think by him self. But he is not like in genjutsu. Dont you see.

You want to believe all we saying is nonsence, but its more true than you can see.

 

[foxyladyland]

So why he didt kill sasuke because its same situation ? And if you in genjutsu shoudnt you act same in same situation ?

its not the same situation because sasuke is only like that because of itachi killing the uchiha in the first place.
while under genjuts of KA as an edo , itachi still thought intelligently with his own mind
and even gave naruto tips.. he also gave kabuto tips and he was the one battling him.

sasuke was in itachi's mind someone who could be turned back to help the village, obviously
so itachi was trying to cheet sasuke up and make him understand its not his fault at all why he behaves like that
rather it was itachi's fault why it all happened.

itachi was using a non violence method of protecting the leaf to sasuke
by talking it out with him and giving him the option like hashirama is doing to sasuke now

 

[DeDoll]

And last one. Your theory is that Shisui gave will to Itachi that he could Kill his own family without hesitate. But he cant do that... He cant kill Sasuke. Even what he did.

 

[DeDoll]

its not the same situation because sasuke is only like that because of itachi killing the uchiha in the first place.
while under genjuts of KA as an edo , itachi still thought intelligently with his own mind
and even gave naruto tips.. he also gave kabuto tips and he was the one battling him.

sasuke was in itachi's mind someone who could be turned back to help the village, obviously
so itachi was trying to cheet sasuke up and make him understand its not his fault at all why he behaves like that
rather it was itachi's fault why it all happened.

itachi was using a non violence method of protecting the leaf to sasuke
by talking it out with him and giving him the option like hashirama is doing to sasuke now

W8 ? You saying that Itachi could choose not violence way with Sasuke but he cant with uchiha ? But look what Hiruzen was talking here should be other way lets talk with them bla bla