Itachi's more skilled than Prime Hiruzen...

[Lilt]

Prime Hiruzen is regarded as a perfect ninja in base skills. Yet I don't see how he can outshine from what we know of Itachi's base skills:

Ninjutsu

• Itachi's speed is such that ninja cannot see his hands, nor his chakra molding, even with the Sharingan.
• Because of this, Itachi has successfully clone-feinted perfect Sages and advanced Sharingan users.
• Additionally, he has masked his chakra from a perfect Sage actively sensing his enemies.
• He also possibly masked his chakra in a similar way from Edo Nagato, another sensor.
• Itachi created the first and only clone jutsu made from living creatures, which conserves chakra.

Fūinjutsu

• Itachi created unseen trap-techniques that amazed and baffled even someone as knowledgeable as Obito.
• He designed these traps to lanch S+ jutsu at a third target from visual triggers of the unknowing carrier.
• He possesses the Totsuka Blade's nigh unrivaled sealing enchantment.

Medical

• Itachi transplanted a Mangekyō into a crow, and adjusted the crows chakra network to facilitate the jutsu.
• He also concocted medicines to extend his life, according to Obito.

Taijutsu

• He briefly engaged two perfect Jinchūriki (one was cloaked) simultaneously.
• He had the reflexes to twice-counter a perfect Sage in close range, unlike the 3rd Raikage.

Weapons

• Against Sage Kabuto, Itachi demonstrated exceptional skill in sword-handling.
• In part one, Kakashi's full Sharingan could not track Itachi's shuriken-handling.
• Kakashi also stated that Itachi was holding back at the time, and this was before he knew he had the Mangekyō...
• Sasuke needed summoning tattoos to counter (a much slower, according to Zetsu) Itach's shuriken.
• Itachi was able to instantly blind Rinnegan shared vision with shuriken. Kabuto said he was too damn good.
• Rinnegan shared vision was something that Sage Jiraiya, Kakashi, etc. had been repeatedly foiled against.

Speed

• Itachi's flicker jutsu was such that even Bee needed to be warned about Itachi's location each time Itachi used it.
• Kurenai could in no way follow (a holding back!) Itachi's flicker or clone-forming speeds.
• The flicker jutsu is part of the clone feints, which tricked Sasuke's Sharingan and Kabuto's sensing.
• Itachi blitzed three full-Sharingan users. Something only A & Minato have done.

Strength

• Itachi was able to counter cloaked Jinchūriki and perfect Sages without recoil (like Deva suffered.)
• Itachi stopped Chidori mid-strike, and easily broke part one Sasuke's bone by clenching his fist.
• In part one, Itachi's kicks were shown to send his opponents flying several dozen meters backwards.
• Presumably, Itachi had lost much of his strength when fighting Sasuke.
• This follows, since Zetsu said Itachi was slower, thus implying his muscles had declined.
• Obito also said that Itachi's body, and thus muscles, were eaten away by disease.

Genjutsu

• Shikaku believed Itachi could threaten the entire alliance with an unknown genjutsu Itachi created/possessed.
• Itachi stated to Nagato that Kabuto could use his genjutsu at the perfect moment, to influence the entire war.
• Danzō stated that Sasuke was as far below Itachi in genjutsu as the earth was below heaven.
• The previous statements was shortly after C had said Sasuke was a ridiculous genius in genjutsu.
• Even Sage Kabuto believed Itachi could control him with genjutsu, if he made eye contact with him.
• Itachi stated in part one that only an Uchiha with the Mangekyō could possibly resist his genjutsu.
• Zetsu stated that one needed more skill, or higher level Mangekyō, to resist his genjutsu.
• From this, and the databook, we can deduce that Sasuke did not legitmately break Tsukuyomi.
• Itachi created different methods to cast genjusu (his crow, and his fingers)

Intelligence

• Itachi was said to possess a Hokage's reasoning ability at age seven.
• At that age, his academy teacher recalled that Itachi never had to be taught (ninja skills.)
• At age eleven, Itachi was the only one to notice Obito's stealth in entering Konoha.
• This was something Minato, Hiruzen, etc. were unable to do.
• As a teen, he located legendary items that both Orochimaru and Madara had known and hunted.
• Kabuto stated Itachi had true ocular powers, unlike anyone else, and likened it to peering inside souls.
• Itachi instantly deduced counters to Rinnegan vision, Chibaku Tensei, Edo Tensei, etc.
• In the movie Kishimoto wrote, Itachi instantly deduced the mechanics of Obito's Kamui & thought of a counter.
• Obito had said that Itachi never ceased to amaze him, after all. Even in death.

Stamina

• Contrary to popular belief, Itachi was born with a very poweful body that later deteriorated from sickness.
• By the age of 7, Itachi could perform the fireball jutsu.
• In part one Kakashi, said that 12-year-old ninja lacked the chakra capacity to perform that jutsu.
• Additionally, Itachi was shown using Tsukuyomi at age 13, without any sign of fatigue.
• He was also implied to have awoken and used Amaterasu and Susano'o on that "fateful night."
• Again, this was an age where Gaara couldn't keep up sand armor for more than a few minutes.
• Even when sick, Itachi outlasted Sasuke-maru, who had outlasted Deidara.

Hiruzen

Additionally, as Owarji pointed out, in the databook 'prime' Hiruzen confessed that his intelligence was no match for Orochimaru's talent. Orochimaru would later say that Sasuke's talent made him look like a joke, and it was implied by both Orochimaru and Sasuke that Itachi was even more talented (and intelligent) than Sasuke or Orochimaru. Therefore, since Hiruzen lacks kekkei genaki, and relies entirely on intellect/skill, then he's basically a less rounded Itachi...

 

[Orochimaruofthesound]

all hail itachi

 

[Sharingankingitachi]

This is the most truthful thing I saw my whole entire worthless life

 

[RaitonOniKairRasengan]

You are talking about prime hiruzen as if we have actually seen him or know anything about his skills vs the sharigan. Fail post.

 

[DrProof]

Excellent work gathering all of this. Would have been better with Manga Scans; nonetheless repped.

 

[Lilt]

You are talking about prime hiruzen as if we have actually seen him or know anything about his skills vs the sharigan. Fail post.

A major point of the post was pointing out that Itachi's skills transcend the Sharingan.

Could Prime Hiruzen's hyped skill destroy Fugaku? Duh.

But Base Itachi is on an entirely different level to Fugaku in skill.

Even at age 12, a child like Sasuke knew Itachi was much better at shuriken, etc.

 

[TheKBD]

it's funny that most people forget how truly amazing itachi is when comparing him to most other characters, reading this post i found out 2 new thing about itachi even i hadn't known before so thank you and ***** bro

 

[Troyg39]

I'll give you an A for effort. This is the best list of Itachi's strong points I've ever seen.

But we still know nothing of what Prime Hiruzen could do, so it's still nothing more than a strong opinion.

Remember for a long time nobody could fathom how someone like Hashirama could defeat a Sharingan user, especially one like Madara, because we didn't know about any of his feats. But now we see clearly why Hashirama was stronger.

Just saying don't count Hiruzen out until we know for sure what he could do

 

[Lilt]

I'll give you an A for effort. This is the best list of Itachi's strong points I've ever seen.

But we still know nothing of what Prime Hiruzen could do, so it's still nothing more than a strong opinion.

Remember for a long time nobody could fathom how someone like Hashirama could defeat a Sharingan user, especially one like Madara, because we didn't know about any of his feats. But now we see clearly why Hashirama was stronger.

Just saying don't count Hiruzen out until we know for sure what he could do

To be fair, there's still a lot of gray area there. Madara was assumed to be able to use Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, and Izanagi against him, too. Hashirama still hasn't countered all that, but I'll admit the author scaled Hashirama up enormously. Still, I agree with you. But I just don't see what Hiruzen could have, as he's never been hyped to have special abilities like Hashirama. He's just super-skilled and intelligent. But more than Itachi? Very doubtful. Just from the capabilities I outlined above, if Hiruzen could take basic skills to a higher level than that, then he'd be too much.

 

[Forget Me Not]

Interesting thread. I think he's of course inherently more talented or gifted than Hiruzen, but Hiruzen may have more to offer. Sort of a one-sided thread.

But nice compilation of a lot of Itachi's accolades.

 

[Arugon]

I'd say Itachi would win High Diff.
However we've never seen Prime Hiruzen unfortunately so we may never know for certain, we can only speculate

 

[itachi izanami]

this thread is so cool!!!!!YOU SEE YOU SEE itachi is on madara and hashiramas level perhaps

 

[Lilt]

I'd say Itachi would win High Diff.
However we've never seen Prime Hiruzen unfortunately so we may never know for certain, we can only speculate

I'm 99% positive we're going to see the Edo Hokages fight. Probably Madara/Obito.

That way, we get a Hashirama-Tobirama-Madara-Hiruzen & Minato-Obito reunion.

 

[Forget Me Not]

I'm 99% positive we're going to see the Edo Hokages fight.

Indeed. However that doesn't necessarily mean we'll see Hiruzen's full strength. Surely a larger variety of his skill set, but it wasn't noted that this was Hiruzen brought back in his prime like Madara was by Kabuto.

Should be pretty interesting to see Hiruzen and Tobirama (preferably S/T). But I think we've got the gist of what Hashi can do for the most part.

 

[Arugon]

I'm 99% positive we're going to see the Edo Hokages fight. Probably Madara/Obito.

That way, we get a Hashirama-Tobirama-Madara-Hiruzen & Minato-Obito reunion.

Yeahh but unlike Madara, Hiruzen was revived in his pre-death state (70 years old). His body is slow and not in Prime Condition.

 

[Troyg39]

To be fair, there's still a lot of gray area there. Madara was assumed to be able to use Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, and Izanagi against him, too. Hashirama still hasn't countered all that, but I'll admit the author scaled Hashirama up enormously. Still, I agree with you. But I just don't see what Hiruzen could have, as he's never been hyped to have special abilities like Hashirama. He's just super-skilled and intelligent. But more than Itachi? Very doubtful. Just from the capabilities I outlined above, if Hiruzen could take basic skills to a higher level than that, then he'd be too much.

True we haven't seen Hashi counter Madara's strongest and most obvious moves, but we do know Kishi meant for him to be stronger regardless.

As far as hype goes, honestly they are equal in my opinion (Hashi and Hiruzen). In the beginning, all we knew of Hashi was him beating Madara and his Mokuton. For prime Hiruzen, we knew of his mastery of all leaf jutsu and being said to be the strongest Hokage.

Oh and just so you know, Itachi wasn't the only one who sensed the attack on the leaf coming. Kakashi and even old man Hiruzen noticed it too. In fact, I think Hiruzen actually had a guess as to what was going on, where Itachi and Kakashi simply knew something wasn't right. Not trying to be picky or a jerk, just letting you know friend

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Just because you don't see how Hiruzen prime can outshine Itachi, doesn't mean it's true.

 

[Troyg39]

Yeahh but unlike Madara, Hiruzen was revived in his pre-death state (70 years old). His body is slow and not in Prime Condition.

Well that depends. We know old man Hiruzen in real life wasn't anywhere near his prime. But this is Edo we are speaking of. They don't get tired. They don't have chakra limits. And they don't feel pain. So I odn't think that things like fatigue from old age play a factor with edos

 

[Lilt]

Yeahh but unlike Madara, Hiruzen was revived in his pre-death state (70 years old). His body is slow and not in Prime Condition.

Ehh, that's dicey to me. Similar cases are Hanzō, Kimimaro, and Itachi himself. All were in very weakened states before death, yet none were stated to be brought back in their prime. Still, it was implied that they were in roughly top form. I believe Rinnegan users (Nagato and Madara) are the sole exceptions to that rule, as they have some sort of vital force sapped from them that transcends death. This is why Kabuto had to go to special lengths for Madara, and why Nagato was still weakened as an Edo. So in Hiruzen's case, I will assume his showing will be his prime self, with inexhaustable chakra.

 

[itachi izanami]

True we haven't seen Hashi counter Madara's strongest and most obvious moves, but we do know Kishi meant for him to be stronger regardless.

As far as hype goes, honestly they are equal in my opinion (Hashi and Hiruzen). In the beginning, all we knew of Hashi was him beating Madara and his Mokuton. For prime Hiruzen, we knew of his mastery of all leaf jutsu and being said to be the strongest Hokage.

Oh and just so you know, Itachi wasn't the only one who sensed the attack on the leaf coming. Kakashi and even old man Hiruzen noticed it too. Not trying to be picky or a jerk, just letting you know friend

nope i think his talking about obito.... obito said that itachi was the only one who noticed his presence