Itachi's more skilled than Prime Hiruzen...

[itachi izanami]

Yeahh but unlike Madara, Hiruzen was revived in his pre-death state (70 years old). His body is slow and not in Prime Condition.

how can you be sure of

 

[Lilt]

As far as hype goes, honestly they are equal in my opinion (Hashi and Hiruzen). In the beginning, all we knew of Hashi was him beating Madara and his Mokuton. For prime Hiruzen, we knew of his mastery of all leaf jutsu and being said to be the strongest Hokage.

Ehh, the translation I read was that Hiruzen knew of all the jutsu in the Leaf. To perform them all, he'd need to be a Rinnegan user to have all the elements, and use the many kekkei genkai. Secondly, Iruka's opinion that Hiruzen was the strongest may not be true, as Dan said that only Hashirama could defeat Madara, without exception.

Oh and just so you know, Itachi wasn't the only one who sensed the attack on the leaf coming. Kakashi and even old man Hiruzen noticed it too. In fact, I think Hiruzen actually had a guess as to what was going on, where Itachi and Kakashi simply knew something wasn't right. Not trying to be picky or a jerk, just letting you know friend

Some ninja being able to sense Kurama isn't what I'm referring to. This is:

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[Troyg39]

nope i think his talking about obito.... obito said that itachi was the only one who noticed his presence

I don't remember Obito saying that at all and I'm not even sure if we are talking about the same incident.

But I took the time to show proof of what I'm talking about anyway.

Spoiler

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This was right before Obito brought the Nine-Tails to the leaf and attacked. You see Kakashi and Hiruzen both noticed something was off just like Itachi did before it happened. It even seems like Hiruzen sort of knew exactly was about to happen when he said "It couldn't be!"

The Uchiha clan were on the outskirts of the village too so that's probably why Itachi noticed it first since he'd be closer to the outside of the village and would have a better chance of knowing what was entering it before anyone who was actually in the middle of the village.

Still he was young so it's amazing intuition on his part regardless

 

[Troyg39]

Ehh, the translation I read was that Hiruzen knew of all the jutsu in the Leaf. To perform them all, he'd need to be a Rinnegan user to have all the elements, and use the many kekkei genkai. Secondly, Iruka's opinion that Hiruzen was the strongest may not be true, as Dan said that only Hashirama could defeat Madara, without exception.



Some ninja being able to sense Kurama isn't what I'm referring to. This is:

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Spoiler

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He knew and was able to use every jutsu in the leaf. This was Oro not Iruka.

And I think that was in reference to the Uchiha masacre if I'm not mistaken. Minato was dead by then and Itachi was the only one who was carrying out the order to kill the Uchiha. So Hiruzen shouldn't have noticed anyone else since he wasn't present.

But if you are talking about the nine tails attack, I showed the other guy proof that Itachi wasn't the only one who noticed Obito and Kurama

 

[mikey18307]

excellent...your compilation of of itachi's skills are top-notch

but..first hiruzen,sure no one knows what his prime can do but if u think about it...itachi admitted to the fact that he wouldn't be able to fight jiraiya hands down talkless of beating the one who taught jiraiya..alot of itachi's skill come from his use of the sharingan tho his adapted...to me those born into the uchiha clan have an unfair advantage over the others seeing as they are born as prodigies

as to your fact about nagato..if they were to fight when they were alive with his six paths nd all..itachi (in my mind) doesn't stand much of a chance..kabuto while controlling nagato said he was not as mobile as he would have liked him to be..if u think about it means nagato was also resisting to edo tensai...also through out that battle nagato was able to detect all itachi's movements even before he cut off is arms with susano

even compared against kakashi..sure he underestimated his genjutsu and it cost him..but even kakashi as a youth was also exceptional..it is said that he graduated the academy at age 5..went on to become a chuunin at 6 and so on..

Sasuke too..he really wasnt so far behind itachi in skill(i mean if u think about some of itachi's quick growth was as a result of the war time in which they lived..in those days only the strong survive u either become strong or u die) but wasnt so with sasuke who lived during peaceful times

not to contradict u but..yh!!

 

[itachi izanami]

I don't remember Obito saying that at all and I'm not even sure if we are talking about the same incident.

But I took the time to show proof of what I'm talking about anyway.

Spoiler

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This was right before Obito brought the Nine-Tails to the leaf and attacked. You see Kakashi and Hiruzen both noticed something was off just like Itachi did before it happened. It even seems like Hiruzen sort of knew exactly was about to happen when he said "It couldn't be!"

The Uchiha clan were on the outskirts of the village too so that's probably why Itachi noticed it first since he'd be closer to the outside of the village and would have a better chance of knowing what was entering it before anyone who was actually in the middle of the village.

Still he was young so it's amazing intuition on his part regardless

i think we can't clear ourselves "Obito infiltrated Konoha to rekindle the flames of war. He was found by Itachi Uchiha first, who thought he was Madara and convinced Obito to spare the village in exchange for helping to wipe out the Uchiha clan, to which he complied"

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[Troyg39]

i think we can't clear ourselves "Obito infiltrated Konoha to rekindle the flames of war. He was found by Itachi Uchiha first, who thought he was Madara and convinced Obito to spare the village in exchange for helping to wipe out the Uchiha clan, to which he complied"

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That was a separate incident I was talking about. When the Uchiha masacre happened, Minato was already dead. Itachi and Obito didn't meet during the first nine tails attack. You can clearly see that from the manga

Just look at the paragraph that comes right before the one you are tryin to point out to me. Also you do realize that the Uchiha clan lived on the outskirts of the village, so naturally Itachi would have the first chance to meet up with him since the outskirts are on the edge of the village and you have to pass that before ever getting into the heart of it.

Also the wiki isn't canon. It's been wrong before so be careful how you use it. Just a little advice

 

[Olorin]

until we see more about all the Hokage im just gonna assume

all Hokage > Itachi

just because they are Hokage, i know its not much but its not unreasonable

also because if itachi used his eyes enough to defeat any of them hed probably drop dead

yes the current kage are not the prime example but althroughout the series youre just beeing fed the info that the first 4 HOkage are special

 

[Owarij]

nice list, But there is one databook statement that proves the statement correct, thus you didn't need to go into all of that detail...

Hiruzen said himself, that even with all his knowledge, it was nothing to Orochimaru's talent...

Orochimaru already stated that when compared to Sasuke, his genius title was rediculous, by that statement, he also would be inferior to Itachi, who evidently was more of a genius than his brother since birth

since this is about talent rather than who wins in a fight, dbz abc logic would be applicabale, meaning Orochimaru,Sasuke and Itachi are more talented than Hiruzen


That does NOT mean they got to live to reach that talent or have reached that point in the manga

 

[itachi izanami]

That was a separate incident I was talking about. When the Uchiha masacre happened, Minato was already dead. Itachi and Obito didn't meet during the first nine tails attack. You can clearly see that from the manga

Just look at the paragraph that comes right before the one you are tryin to point out to me. Also you do realize that the Uchiha clan lived on the outskirts of the village, so naturally Itachi would have the first chance to meet up with him since the outskirts are on the edge of the village and you have to pass that before ever getting into the heart of it.

Also the wiki isn't canon. It's been wrong before so be careful how you use it. Just a little advice

btw we aren't talking about of what your pointing out and IDC if minato is dead and hiruzen is the issue

 

[PredictionGuru]

All hail lord itachi

nice thread altho the genjutsu part was full of falsity

 

[iKaras]

We'll never know unless the 3rd gets his own flashback to his prime days.

-However,with what we know now, Itachi could at the very least give anyone trouble.

 

[Troyg39]

btw we aren't talking about of what your pointing out and IDC if minato is dead and hiruzen is the issue

1. Who is "we?" I thought only one person made this thread? You simply jumped in a conversation that didn't concern you and added confusion

2. If you look at the thread, I believe under the Intelligence section, you will see that the thread maker said that Itachi noticed Obito and it was something that not even Hiruzen AND Minato were able to do. Which lead me to believe she were talking about the nine tails incident because the incident you keep trying to point out, Minato was dead and Hiruzen wasn't present.

3. Basically if you don't have all the facts don't jump midway into someone else's conversation. I'm not mad or anything just giving you some advice to help avoid things like this. You say you don't care about Minato and that Hiruzen is the issue but you failed to realize that Minato was brought up in the point the thread maker was trying to make

 

[Lilt]

In the incident you're using to defend Hiruzen and Minato, Obito slew ANBU and Hiruzen's wife before Minato noticed. Hiruzen did not know anybody had infiltrated the village until well after, since Kurama had been extracted from Kushina.

Itachi, in contrast, by Obito's own omission "was the ONLY one to notice his presence" when sneaking into Konoha later one, something that distinguished him from everybody else in Obito's mind. Minato was dead, but Hiruzen was not.

You're confusing the ominous feeling of the summoning of Kurama, which Gai and many others felt, to detecting Obito's stealth as he slipped into the village. They're entirely different ballparks.

 

[TrollingSage]

Yea he's definitely better at killing women and children in the middle of the night. Oh am sorry is that not what you meant?

 

[Lilt]

Yea he's definitely better at killing women and children in the middle of the night. Oh am sorry is that not what you meant?

Regardless of the ethical debate: Hiruzen ordered him to...

 

[FleeOnSight]

This is the exact bull that kills the base. Comparing itachi to a guy we have seen nothing from. Just great smh.

 

[Troyg39]

In the incident you're using to defend Hiruzen and Minato, Obito slew ANBU and Hiruzen's wife before Minato noticed. Hiruzen did not know anybody had infiltrated the village until well after, since Kurama had been extracted from Kushina.

Itachi, in contrast, by Obito's own omission "was the ONLY one to notice his presence" when sneaking into Konoha later one, something that distinguished him from everybody else in Obito's mind. Minato was dead, but Hiruzen was not.

You're confusing the ominous feeling of the summoning of Kurama, which Gai and many others felt, to detecting Obito's stealth as he slipped into the village. They're entirely different ballparks.

Spoiler

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THIS is what I thought you were referring to when you said Itachi noticed Obito and that Minato and Hiruzen didn't notice him.

In the incident that you are talking about, Minato was already dead, that's why it makes no sense for you to say it was something that not even Minato could do, because Minato wasn't alive to do it. And Obito didn't slip into the village. They met outside the Uchiha clan's residence, which in on the OUTSKIRTS of the Village. Hiruzen, being the Hokage at the time, was in the heart of the village. Itachi ran into Obito before he was about to carry out his plans of the Uchiha masacre. Meaning he met with Obito at the outskirts, or edge of the village. The only people who would've had a chance to notice Obito were Itachi and the other Uchihas.

The only reason I thought you were talking about the first incident is because you were the one who mentioned Minato's name. So naturally I assumed you were talking about a situation in where Minato was alive, not one where he was dead already.

And for the record Minato and Kushina were not in the village when they were giving birth to Naruto. When Obito infiltrated that cave, he wasn't in the village yet. So Itachi, Kakashi, and Hiruzen all sensed something was wrong before Obito had actually went to the village

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

we dont know anything about hiruzen's prime or even his full power when old. pointless thread

 

[Rainbow Dash]

we dont know anything about hiruzen's prime or even his full power when old. pointless thread

Trunks, why do you always necro threads?