Show me a scan of where it says Orochimaru mastered SM? You're really making things up now, Orochimaru never had Sage mode...
Please do NOT reply unless you have a scan where it says Orochimaru mastered it, or was shown using it.
He didnt master it, its imperfect one, but neither SM of jiraya was perfect. But hey u still avoiding my argument arent u? U linked me SM requirements, what did u want to prove with that?
Precisely...in fact same goes for bijuu mode. Moreover in BM the user gets DIRECT ACCESS to kurama powers and uses them as his own. Madara on the other hand controlled kurama at the cost of his own chakra leaving himself vulnerable to hashirama's attacks. It is far more difficult in a way...yet Madara did it.
You don't understand, that anyone with an MS can tame Kurama, it isn't his power. He's just controlling a tailed beast, against its will. Lmao, you really think Madara cares if he lost a bit of chakra? I'm sorry, but Kurama's power >> Losing a little chakra.
He didnt master it, its imperfect one, but neither SM of jiraya was perfect. But hey u still avoiding my argument arent u? U linked me SM requirements, what did u want to prove with that?
What, no scan? Don't be ridiculous, Orochimaru never even had any form of SM. I see you're quick to change the subject, so I'm cool. I actually meant to link that scan to the other guy, to prove that anyone with a large chakra reserve can learn Sage mode. I also actually answered it. Taming the Kyuubi takes little to absolutely no effort, when presented with an MS. He knew he couldn't step to Hashirama alone. Hashirama's been whooping on Madara since the early days, so he had to rely on the Kyuubi's power to even come close to a win. That's how it is.
You don't understand, that anyone with an MS can tame Kurama, it isn't his power. He's just controlling a tailed beast, against its will. Lmao, you really think Madara cares if he lost a bit of chakra? I'm sorry, but Kurama's power >> Losing a little chakra.
Kurama isnt any one's power neither is nature energy. One does simply have power to gain more power. MS can get u bijus, large chakra pool can get u SM. Its all the same.
What, no scan? Don't be ridiculous, Orochimaru never even had any form of SM. I see you're quick to change the subject, so I'm cool. I actually meant to link that scan to the other guy, to prove that anyone with a large chakra reserve can learn Sage mode. I also actually answered it. Taming the Kyuubi takes little to absolutely no effort, when presented with an MS. He knew he couldn't step to Hashirama alone. Hashirama's been whooping on Madara since the early days, so he had to rely on the Kyuubi's power to even come close to a win. That's how it is.
Orochimaru has sage chakra that he mixes with curse mark, but he never truly mastered it. His own body isnt enough for, thats why he wants sasuke's body along with sharingan.
The hell u answered. Any who can have large chakra, one needs to learn how to seize and control nature energy. Madara does have large chakra too, i guesss its also his birth right then to have sage mode. Madara got kyuubi cuz he planned to fight leaf not just hashirama. Hashi w/o SM is no match for PS. Hashi with SM would still got owned had madara was little further, thus had time to throw extra TBBs to finish that stupid wooden doll. But u got no brain to realize that.
So you're saying Kabuto never perfected SM? Lmao, please. How the heck would you know? He hasn't shown any signs of not perfecting it. His body was already snake-like before he displayed SM. Yeah, maybe he got the horns as a SM trait. Just like how Naruto's eyes change when he enters SM. SM have traits, which affect appearance, just look at Naruto and Hashirama.
Fail...Naruto isnt even a full senju, It makes sense that his eyes remain frog-like. Hashi has no animal traits, only markings.
And its stated that the more perfect your SM, the more the animal traits start to disappear, hashi having no animal traits means that he is the most effective user of SM.
The amount of threads I saw today claiming Madara is either on par with Hashirama, or stronger than Hashirama is truly unbelievable.
At first, Hashirama was hesitant in actually killing Madara, he tried to talk sense into him.
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And now I'm hearing some bullshit excuse of Madara deactivating his Sharingan because he thought he won, guess what? That's his problem. Who's to say he wasn't nearly out of chakra? Point is, the whole point of clones is to trick the enemy, and that's exactly what Hashirama did. He made use of his jutsu, and he ultimately won. Hashirama was whooping on Madara since the early days man, he would of won either way.
You know what else is funny? Madara needs the Kyuubi to even compete with Hashirama.
and this is why there are so many Hashirama haters now, because fanboys, even though their character was shown to be stronger, keep spitting that fact into everyone's face and then overrate/exaggerate every other feat of his
Kurama isnt any one's power neither is nature energy. One does simply have power to gain more power. MS can get u bijus, large chakra pool can get u SM. Its all the same.
Orochimaru has sage chakra that he mixes with curse mark, but he never truly mastered it. His own body isnt enough for, thats why he wants sasuke's body along with sharingan.
The hell u answered. Any who can have large chakra, one needs to learn how to seize and control nature energy. Madara does have large chakra too, i guesss its also his birth right then to have sage mode. Madara got kyuubi cuz he planned to fight leaf not just hashirama. Hashi w/o SM is no match for PS. Hashi with SM would still got owned had madara was little further, thus had time to throw extra TBBs to finish that stupid wooden doll. But u got no brain to realize that.
Concerning your first part: Except, one has to train for Sage mode, it isn't just given to you if you have a large chakra reserve, you have to train for it. You're making sound as if nature energy is a living being. You whatever comprehension skills to know this: When one masters Sage mode, they still have to do all the fighting, they're just granted with further boosts. However, when one tames a Bijuu, they don't have to do anything. They can have the beast do all the work for them, while they kick back. Sage mode still requires the person to fight, and everything else. Unfortunately for Madara, Hashirama is no pushover.
Your second part: Yeah, that still isn't Sage mode mate... Kabuto, about Orochimaru.
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Are you serious? Just because one has a large chakra reserve, that doesn't mean they're automatically given SM. You're also not understanding my simple point: SM is achieved through training, while taming Kurama requires the MS, which too takes no training, just emotional trauma. Like I was saying though, Hashirama deserves every piece of power he's got. Hopefully by this point, you understand that Hashirama had to train for SM, and it wasn't just given to him. It isn't anyone's birth right to attain Sage mode if they have large chakra reserves, otherwise you would of seen people like Kisame and A with it. You have to train for it, get it?
Also, it was said the Uchiha inherited powerful chakra and spiritual energy, not large chakra reserves.
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I have no doubt in my mind that Madara had large chakra reserves, your logic is just wrong. And it was stated Madara had exceptionally strong chakra, even for an Uchiha.
Madara never had his Sharingan activated even when he clashed with the Mokuton Bunshin. If the real Hashirama won that clash, would you put the blame on Madara not having his EMS activated as well? Hashirama tricked him with the Bunshin.
@SasoriOfTheRedSaand: Whatever you try to say bro, nothing is gonna change the fact that Kurama can be used just as much as any summon can be used.....Its his power, whether you wanna nitpick it or not its in his possession until forcefully taken
@SasoriOfTheRedSaand: Whatever you try to say bro, nothing is gonna change the fact that Kurama can be used just as much as any summon can be used.....Its his power, whether you wanna nitpick it or not its in his possession until forcefully taken
I already told you it's his power when in possession of it, but it's not literally his power. My point in the beginning is, he needs the power of the strongest Bijuu to compete with Hashi
I already told you it's his power when in possession of it, but it's not literally his power. My point in the beginning is, he needs the power of the strongest Bijuu to compete with Hashi
Concerning your first part: Except, one has to train for Sage mode, it isn't just given to you if you have a large chakra reserve, you have to train for it. You're making sound as if nature energy is a living being. You whatever comprehension skills to know this: When one masters Sage mode, they still have to do all the fighting, they're just granted with further boosts. However, when one tames a Bijuu, they don't have to do anything. They can have the beast do all the work for them, while they kick back. Sage mode still requires the person to fight, and everything else. Unfortunately for Madara, Hashirama is no pushover.
When one tames biju he has to waste chakra controlling it. He also has to waste precious concentration in fight. One must also think for biju. U make it sound like kurama willingly helps madara and does its best. Madara also had to learn to control it, madara also had to spend time to look for it. Its a trade off.
Are you serious? Just because one has a large chakra reserve, that doesn't mean they're automatically given SM. You're also not understanding my simple point: SM is achieved through training, while taming Kurama requires the MS, which too takes no training, just emotional trauma. Like I was saying though, Hashirama deserves every piece of power he's got. Hopefully by this point, you understand that Hashirama had to train for SM, and it wasn't just given to him. It isn't anyone's birth right to attain Sage mode if they have large chakra reserves, otherwise you would of seen people like Kisame and A with it. You have to train for it, get it?
One does not simply gets biju if he has MS. Emotional trauma? Another trade off, some are not pleased with it. I never questioned if u need to train for SM. The point stand and u cant deny it. ITS EXTERNAL POWER FFS. U seize it with its own, therefore its urs.
Also, it was said the Uchiha inherited powerful chakra and spiritual energy, not large chakra reserves.
Oh please enlighten me, what does that powerful chakra does for uchihas? Senjus got good body and sh*t load of chakra with it. Powerful chakra of SM and of bijus/kurama grant all stats/abilities enhancement. What does uchiha chakra again?
I have no doubt in my mind that Madara had large chakra reserves, your logic is just wrong. And it was stated Madara had exceptionally strong chakra, even for an Uchiha.
My logic isnt wrong. Madara had 2 options, get SM or get biju, he chose biju. U already paid the price with emotional trauma why bother with SM if biju is better? Same was for hashirama but he chose SM.
Madara never had his Sharingan activated even when he clashed with the Mokuton Bunshin. If the real Hashirama won that clash, would you put the blame on Madara not having his EMS activated as well? Hashirama tricked him with the Bunshin.
I dont care if madara had EMS on or not, if lost on purpose or just let his guard down. I do not question outcome of the manga.
All im saying that outcome doesn't always determine who is stronger. And in VoTE madara clearly was stronger.
Madara could have unleashed dozen TBBs in 1st second of the fight, not even one senju cell would be left. He had multiple occasions where he could have killed hashi easily. TBBs can be fired from miles away. He could have bombed that budda to oblivion from just little bigger distance from where he was. But u cant realize any of that, and all that shows that madara got the real power.
I already told you it's his power when in possession of it, but it's not literally his power. My point in the beginning is, he needs the power of the strongest Bijuu to compete with Hashi
So I guess Kabuto's Edo's are his power, and Shima being able to reverse summon Naruto makes her top 5/6? It makes Madara top 5, but Kurama is simply a tool at Madara's disposal. I told you now for the 3rd time, I know he's able to summon it, I know it's a part of his power when in battle, but in the literal sense, it's not actually his power.
When one tames biju he has to waste chakra controlling it. He also has to waste precious concentration in fight. One must also think for biju. U make it sound like kurama willingly helps madara and does its best. Madara also had to learn to control it, madara also had to spend time to look for it. Its a trade off.
One does not simply gets biju if he has MS. Emotional trauma? Another trade off, some are not pleased with it. I never questioned if u need to train for SM. The point stand and u cant deny it. ITS EXTERNAL POWER FFS. U seize it with its own, therefore its urs.
Oh please enlighten me, what does that powerful chakra does for uchihas? Senjus got good body and sh*t load of chakra with it. Powerful chakra of SM and of bijus/kurama grant all stats/abilities enhancement. What does uchiha chakra again?
My logic isnt wrong. Madara had 2 options, get SM or get biju, he chose biju. U already paid the price with emotional trauma why bother with SM if biju is better? Same was for hashirama but he chose SM.
I dont care if madara had EMS on or not, if lost on purpose or just let his guard down. I do not question outcome of the manga.
All im saying that outcome doesn't always determine who is stronger. And in VoTE madara clearly was stronger.
Madara could have unleashed dozen TBBs in 1st second of the fight, not even one senju cell would be left. He had multiple occasions where he could have killed hashi easily. TBBs can be fired from miles away. He could have bombed that budda to oblivion from just little bigger distance from where he was. But u cant realize any of that, and all that shows that madara got the real power.
Look for it? Oh no... and like I said previously, wasting a little chakra is nothing compared to what power Kurama provides. Also, it doesn't take away as much concentration as you think. If it did, explain to me why Obito was able to have Kurama run riot on the village while he fought Minato? It really doesn't take as much concentration as you think, you're being dumb.
Yes, you seize natural energy, AFTER you train for it. My point from the beginning was, Madara needed help from the strongest Bijuu to even compete with Hashi, yet he still won. Yes, emotional trauma, while they may not like the trauma, they get stronger, ****ed. Yeah, it's his power when he has it, but that wasn't my point. You're comparing Kurama to something Hashi trained for.
Strong chakra and large chakra reserves are different. Even you should know this.
No, Madara didn't have two options, you're just making that up. Where in the manga does it say Madara had the choice of learning SM? Stop making things up
Hashirama countered everything Madara threw at him. Not to mention he had the element of surprise. Madara prepared by taming the Kyuubi, and coming out of nowhere. Hashirama never knew he would show up out of nowhere, did he? He just had to get with it and fight.
