Misconception: Tobirama never hated Uchihas

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Yes, Tobirama not hating Uchiha's is a misconception.

 

[SilverSlick]

Why bother if your gonna make fanboy excuses?

LAst time I checked.. Hashirama's dad didn't want a truce with the Uchiha. . And Tobirama supported democracy? Oh yeaa electing Hiruzen as the Hokage. Horraah for false-idolized democracy of tobirama.

Why bother making points if they suck and are unfounded?

 

[LordRevan]

Why bother making points if they suck and are unfounded?

Dude.. your still posting non-sense replies to my post.... I gave you a factual post.. with meaning.. your gave me a troll post with fanboyism.

 

[SilverSlick]

Dude.. your still posting non-sense replies to my post.... I gave you a factual post.. with meaning.. your gave me a troll post with fanboyism.

Its called WAR for a reason....... people die in it.. They are doing a war for peace.. just like the guy you gave a fanboy response for (Danzo) did everything for Konoha. -sigh-

- Turned bad due to Tobirama's negligence
- Nagato wasn't MANIPULATED.. he CHOSE that path..

Danzo :

- Turned Akatsuki bad
- Let Tsunade defend the village by herself, and told the other ninjas to not assist in protection of the village
- Killed the Uchiha because he was going to loose political power.
- Worked with Orochimaru
- Let Konoha ninja die
- threatened innocent people like Kabuto's "mother" and the orphans
- Killed his own men.. for his own purposes
- Took part in the Death of the Sandaime

Orochimaru :
- Experimented on kids
- Didn't care about the feelings of kids or w.e
- Attacked Konoha
- killed Konoha citizens and shinobi for experiments

...... But what happened to the Hokage's Will of Fire for both of these men? Did it die?

Where is the proof for the bold? I hardly see a factual post here. What I do see in most of your post is a basis of Tobirama hate.

 

[Nakamazi Itchigo]

I fully agree with you

 

[LordRevan]

Where is the proof for the bold? I hardly see a factual post here. What I do see in most of your post is a basis of Tobirama hate.

Tobirama hate = the truth about Tobirama? wth

Akatsuki turning bad because of Danzo:

Akatsuki's desire was to create peace without brute force, and people like Hanzo were seeing this as a threat, so he made a FAKE peace treaty with the Akatsuki:

Spoiler

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Hanzo lured Nagato, Yahiko and Konan to a trap, OF COURSE with the help of Danzo:

Spoiler

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That also proves that Danzo was against Hiruzen , and was working with the enemies of the leaf.

Killed The Uchiha because he was going to loose political power:
If he wanted to simply stop the coup, then Shisui was already gonna do it.. but what did he do to him?:

Spoiler

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In conversation of the counsel, its stated the Uchiha wanted a revolution.. you and plenty of other Uchiha haters, and "Tobirama is right" supporters make a random ass assumption they were going to attack the village. THEY WANTED POLITICAL POWER, THAT TOBIRAMA TOOK AWAY FROM THEM.

So if Danzo wanted to end the coup.. he could've just gone with Shusui's plan

Also, he actually didn't care if their was a war or not:

Spoiler

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Killed his own men for his own reasons:
No need to look further.. Shusui.

Spoiler

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Took part in the Sandaime's death:

For this we will need to gather all the information about his feelings towards the Hokages, connection with Oro, details other countries have on him, and his work in the past.

Ok lets see, in Kumo they already have Danzo suspected behind the death of the 3rd Hokage (not how he doesn't say anything) :

Spoiler

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Then we already know he was working with Orochimaru:

Spoiler

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That should be enough evidence to convince you he was took part in Sandaime's death..

 

[SilverSlick]

Tobirama hate = the truth about Tobirama? wth

Akatsuki turning bad because of Danzo:

Akatsuki's desire was to create peace without brute force, and people like Hanzo were seeing this as a threat, so he made a FAKE peace treaty with the Akatsuki:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Hanzo lured Nagato, Yahiko and Konan to a trap, OF COURSE with the help of Danzo:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

That also proves that Danzo was against Hiruzen , and was working with the enemies of the leaf.

Killed The Uchiha because he was going to loose political power:
If he wanted to simply stop the coup, then Shisui was already gonna do it.. but what did he do to him?:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

In conversation of the counsel, its stated the Uchiha wanted a revolution.. you and plenty of other Uchiha haters, and "Tobirama is right" supporters make a random ass assumption they were going to attack the village. THEY WANTED POLITICAL POWER, THAT TOBIRAMA TOOK AWAY FROM THEM.

So if Danzo wanted to end the coup.. he could've just gone with Shusui's plan

Also, he actually didn't care if their was a war or not:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Killed his own men for his own reasons:
No need to look further.. Shusui.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Took part in the Sandaime's death:

For this we will need to gather all the information about his feelings towards the Hokages, connection with Oro, details other countries have on him, and his work in the past.

Ok lets see, in Kumo they already have Danzo suspected behind the death of the 3rd Hokage (not how he doesn't say anything) :

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Then we already know he was working with Orochimaru:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

That should be enough evidence to convince you he was took part in Sandaime's death..

Truth about Tobirama? Jesus Christ, that's your opinion which you try and assert to be true. You don't write the manga so I wouldn't be claiming things like that as true. I am glad you actually followed through.

1. We both know Danzo helped Hanzo, yet you're asserting that it was only Danzo without mentioning Hanzo. Forgive me for misunderstanding.

2. With regards to this, the Uchiha had political power by being apart of the Police Force. They lost it after the Kyubi attack instigated by Obito.

3. I actually agree with you on this one. It would have been better if he would allowed Shisui to follow out on his plan. But, he did what he did because he thought it was best for the village. I don't see why you can't accept this.

4. Simply no, just because he conspired with Orochimaru in the past does not mean he had a part in Hiruzen's death. Hiruzen and Danzo were childhood friends and counterparts. From the Danzo's Death chapter, I hardly see him wanting to kill Hiruzen. In fact, I bet he much rather have Hiruzen as Hokage than Tsunade.

 

[LordRevan]

Truth about Tobirama? Jesus Christ, that's your opinion which you try and assert to be true. You don't write the manga so I wouldn't be claiming things like that as true. I am glad you actually followed through.

1. We both know Danzo helped Hanzo, yet you're asserting that it was only Danzo without mentioning Hanzo. Forgive me for misunderstanding.

2. With regards to this, the Uchiha had political power by being apart of the Police Force. They lost it after the Kyubi attack instigated by Obito.

3. I actually agree with you on this one. It would have been better if he would allowed Shisui to follow out on his plan. But, he did what he did because he thought it was best for the village. I don't see why you can't accept this.

4. Simply no, just because he conspired with Orochimaru in the past does not mean he had a part in Hiruzen's death. Hiruzen and Danzo were childhood friends and counterparts. From the Danzo's Death chapter, I hardly see him wanting to kill Hiruzen. In fact, I bet he much rather have Hiruzen as Hokage than Tsunade.

How is it my opinion when the God of Shinobi and Madara knew that Tobirama would segregate the Uchiha eventually..

1. I was focusing on Danzo.. there was no need mention Hanzo, since he isn't from Konoha. But its cool.
2. Police force worked under the political power, Police has NO POLITICAL POWER.
3. Because he wanted the village destroyed.. lol. And wanted to be its ruler..
4. Where was Danzo during Orochimaru's invasion?

 

[Micho22]

yes i also think he doesnt hate the uchihas

 

[Waltz]

@Bold: Half of this is on the basis that Madara would become Hokage. Frankly, Madara would have never became Hokage[

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] unless you're suggesting that you'd prefer Hashirama to deprive them of their liberty to choose their leader. As you can see in the bottom middle panel, the Uchiha even preferred that Hashirama lead. It wasn't Tobirama who drove him away from the village. It was his skewed reasoning as result of the curse of hatred. Can't you see this? Everything that Tobirama did was a result of Madara turning evil[

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]. I don't know if you know the threat everyone saw in Madara. He did cause this war indirectly and he caused the 9 tails attack indirectly. And you say it all could have been avoided if Hashirama wouldn't have taken the opinions of the people into account and elect Madara. It wasn't just Madara either. Quite a few, including Setsuna, were like Madara[

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]. Simply, they are a liability. Its a biological fact. In fact, he suggests that they destroyed themselves[

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]

I believe you're still misinterpreting his dialogue to make it seem like they weren't apart of a village. They were and Tobirama considered them to be. That's the whole reason he gave them that spot. Tobirama's main priority was the village as a whole[

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] and what would benefit it as a whole. Allowing them to be the police force undoubtedly would and gave him the ability to quell the attempts of another Madara to take control[

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]. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse with this one lol.

You can disregard that whole last paragraph if you want. But, what is important is that we must draw a line as to whose fault this is. The best thing I can propose is that Madara was wrong for overreacting and it was wrong for Tobirama to single out the Uchiha. I think its ridiculous to blame him for everything though.

Madara becoming hokage or not isn't the issue. He would have remained in the village as Hashirama's right hand man if it wasn't for tobriama and his merciless democracy resulting in the VoTE battle, attaining the DNA, and then the obito saga.

@ bold, stop making things up, its becoming rather clear that your biased/fanboy if your going as far as inventing statements:

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Electing Madara isn't my issue. Tobirama degraded the uchiha and killed his brother, it's only natural for thoughts of revenge to come into play, yet being merciful madara didn't lay a hand on tobirama even after they formed the village; in contrast to Mr.Merciless [

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] Madara knew of Hashirama's love for tobirama. It's rather clear. Your interpretation of the dialogue is rather iffy as Tobirama has not yet once referred tot he village with the Uchiha clan being inclusive. It's clear he's biased, ans as stated was suspicious of them. Though relevant, such facts are really infinitesimal when you look at the big picture. The shinobi world may not know the entire truth but at the end of the day Orochimaru's statement is valid as tobirama's actions were the cause of current and past major events concerning the village. His merciless actions did force the uchiha to rebel. What he referres to as "Madara's will" is, in actuality the will to resist against the senju (tobirama). But only when he decided to be little the uchiha [

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] breaking the truce. There's no denying it. He did treat them unequally, remove them from governmental affairs, placed them outside the village and referred to them separately no to mention he is the main reason why madara left the village and all mishaps succeeding those times. Orochimaru isn't that foolish.

 

[SilverSlick]

Madara becoming hokage or not isn't the issue. He would have remained in the village as Hashirama's right hand man if it wasn't for tobriama and his merciless democracy resulting in the VoTE battle, attaining the DNA, and then the obito saga.

@ bold, stop making things up, its becoming rather clear that your biased/fanboy if your going as far as inventing statements:

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Electing Madara isn't my issue. Tobirama degraded the uchiha and killed his brother, it's only natural for thoughts of revenge to come into play, yet being merciful madara didn't lay a hand on tobirama even after they formed the village; in contrast to Mr.Merciless [

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] Madara knew of Hashirama's love for tobirama. It's rather clear. Your interpretation of the dialogue is rather iffy as Tobirama has not yet once referred tot he village with the Uchiha clan being inclusive. It's clear he's biased, ans as stated was suspicious of them. Though relevant, such facts are really infinitesimal when you look at the big picture. The shinobi world may not know the entire truth but at the end of the day Orochimaru's statement is valid as tobirama's actions were the cause of current and past major events concerning the village. His merciless actions did force the uchiha to rebel. What he referres to as "Madara's will" is, in actuality the will to resist against the senju (tobirama). But only when he decided to be little the uchiha [

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] breaking the truce. There's no denying it. He did treat them unequally, remove them from governmental affairs, placed them outside the village and referred to them separately no to mention he is the main reason why madara left the village and all mishaps succeeding those times. Orochimaru isn't that foolish.

I don't understand why you keep denying the Curse of Hatred having a part in turning Madara evil. Its and entirely valid statement in my opinion.

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, Tobirama and Hashirama both have Madara in mind when explaining what exactly the Curse of Hatred is. The manga page you posted only shows Madara's selfishness. Talking about that page, he clearly states that he couldn't protect his brother or his clan, the latter could have been have avoided if he would have stayed in the village. But no, he captured the Kyubi and fought Hashirama. Hashirama's wounds sustained after that fight could have weakened. This is why people began to fear another Madara.

I don't see why he should give any mercy to Madara at that point. They were at war. The Uchiha had never given mercy to Itama[

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] and the Senju had never given mercy to the brothers of Madara so why start now? If you want to get technical, Hashirama could have avoided all of this by killing Madara. Anyways, after the village was formed, Tobirama never attacked Madara either even though he was a Uchiha and had every right to attack Madara as Madara killed some of Tobirama's clansmen. Somehow, you're implying its only natural for Madara to form such thoughts, but never mention how Tobirama lost family members too.

Anyways, why is it that you blame Tobirama for Madara's actions when Tobirama hardly did anything himself to anyone at that particular time? He actually had no problem with Hashirama putting foward Madara as the leader[

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]. All Tobirama proposed was a democracy. Madara took this as the Uchiha never getting a fair advantage and that the Uchiha would be looked down upon by hearing that rumor. By turning evil and attacking Hashirama, he sealed the fate of his clan basically. Had he not, I don't believe Tobirama would have secluded them from the rest of the village. Madara basically caused the thing he was trying to prevent. Where exactly do we draw the line at whose fault it is? Why is it that Madara can't take blame for the actions he has done and the things he has caused. Why shift the blame? At that time, Tobirama did nothing. It was Madara you decided to act because of his paranoia. Yet you Madara sympathizers claim it was all Tobirama's falt, ignoring Madara's overreaction. All of this could have been avoided if Madara stayed. You can say its all Tobirama's fault, but that would only be a cop-out given Madara's actions.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the Tobirama not including Uchiha village thing. Its a matter of perspective I guess. Also, you can't call me biased given you're a Madara fan yourself.

Sorry for taking so long to reply. Had to think about it for a bit lol.

 

[Waltz]

I don't understand why you keep denying the Curse of Hatred having a part in turning Madara evil. Its and entirely valid statement in my opinion.

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, Tobirama and Hashirama both have Madara in mind when explaining what exactly the Curse of Hatred is. The manga page you posted only shows Madara's selfishness. Talking about that page, he clearly states that he couldn't protect his brother or his clan, the latter could have been have avoided if he would have stayed in the village. But no, he captured the Kyubi and fought Hashirama. Hashirama's wounds sustained after that fight could have weakened. This is why people began to fear another Madara.

I don't see why he should give any mercy to Madara at that point. They were at war. The Uchiha had never given mercy to Itama[

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] and the Senju had never given mercy to the brothers of Madara so why start now? If you want to get technical, Hashirama could have avoided all of this by killing Madara. Anyways, after the village was formed, Tobirama never attacked Madara either even though he was a Uchiha and had every right to attack Madara as Madara killed some of Tobirama's clansmen. Somehow, you're implying its only natural for Madara to form such thoughts, but never mention how Tobirama lost family members too.

Anyways, why is it that you blame Tobirama for Madara's actions when Tobirama hardly did anything himself to anyone at that particular time? He actually had no problem with Hashirama putting foward Madara as the leader[

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]. All Tobirama proposed was a democracy. Madara took this as the Uchiha never getting a fair advantage and that the Uchiha would be looked down upon by hearing that rumor. By turning evil and attacking Hashirama, he sealed the fate of his clan basically. Had he not, I don't believe Tobirama would have secluded them from the rest of the village. Madara basically caused the thing he was trying to prevent. Where exactly do we draw the line at whose fault it is? Why is it that Madara can't take blame for the actions he has done and the things he has caused. Why shift the blame? At that time, Tobirama did nothing. It was Madara you decided to act because of his paranoia. Yet you Madara sympathizers claim it was all Tobirama's falt, ignoring Madara's overreaction. All of this could have been avoided if Madara stayed. You can say its all Tobirama's fault, but that would only be a cop-out given Madara's actions.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the Tobirama not including Uchiha village thing. Its a matter of perspective I guess. Also, you can't call me biased given you're a Madara fan yourself.

Sorry for taking so long to reply. Had to think about it for a bit lol.

So your saying that neither tobirama nor his actions played any part in:

- Why the uchiha revolt
- Madara leaving the village
- Hiruzens death
- Sasauke and itachi loosing their family / danzo getting his hands on those sharingan
- The current shinobi war

 

[SilverSlick]

So your saying that neither tobirama nor his actions played any part in:

- Why the uchiha revolt
- Madara leaving the village
- Hiruzens death
- Sasauke and itachi loosing their family / danzo getting his hands on those sharingan
- The current shinobi war

-His decision to seclude them which led to the revolt was based off a number of factors one of them being Madara's actions
-I believe him leaving the village was his paranoia along with Izuna's death
-No
-Possibly but I believe the biggest factor behind the massacre was the Kyubi's attack and Danzo's actions
-This goes all the way back about Madara leaving the village

 

[Waltz]

-His decision to seclude them which led to the revolt was based off a number of factors one of them being Madara's actions
-I believe him leaving the village was his paranoia along with Izuna's death
-No
-Possibly but I believe the biggest factor behind the massacre was the Kyubi's attack and Danzo's actions
-This goes all the way back about Madara leaving the village

Your beliefs mean nothing.

-> There was only one factor [

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] to which itachi confirmed as they were striped of their political rights by tobirama [

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]

-> Madara confirms that Tobirama's potential to exterminate his manipulated clan, The Uchiha, something similar he's done on more than one occasion [

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]is the reason why he left the village [

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] [

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]

-> Obito wouldn't have survived nor met Madara if he had not left the village. Striking out the entire kyuubi incident, the massacre and Danzo.

-> Hiruzen wouldn't have died if tobirama had listened to hashirama and not invent that taboo jutsu. Neither would the 4 edo kage's nor edo madara not even kabuto's edo army would've existed if it wasn't for that jutsu...it's clearly his fault.

-> Tobirama was the spark that started this whole thing, the war "this time too"

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[SilverSlick]

Your beliefs mean nothing.

-> There was only one factor [

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] to which itachi confirmed as they were striped of their political rights by tobirama [

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]

-> Madara confirms that Tobirama's potential to exterminate his manipulated clan, The Uchiha, something similar he's done on more than one occasion [

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]is the reason why he left the village [

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] [

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]

-> Obito wouldn't have survived nor met Madara if he had not left the village. Striking out the entire kyuubi incident, the massacre and Danzo.

-> Hiruzen wouldn't have died if tobirama had listened to hashirama and not invent that taboo jutsu. Neither would the 4 edo kage's nor edo madara not even kabuto's edo army would've existed if it wasn't for that jutsu...it's clearly his fault.

-> Tobirama was the spark that started this whole thing, the war "this time too"

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Beliefs, opinions, its all the same. Your opinions hold no more value than mine.

@the first two Their political power, at that time in the story, was lost as a result of the Kyuubi incident. Since the Uchiha were known to be the only ones possible of controlling a tailed beast in that manner, they took the blame. In your second point, you only confirm what I've been saying. Madara left as a result of his own paranoia and preconceptions which were proven to be false. The Uchiha were never exterminated during Tobirama's reign. Again, you're ignoring another reason as to why he left: Izuna's death. You can't deny Madara was a victim of the curse of hatred. Its a biological fact. I made this point earlier, Hashirama and Tobirama had Madara in their mind while Tobirama was trying to explain.


@Your last 3. We can use cop-outs all day. Using such logic as that, we could say the Sage is to blame for having sons. Where does it stop? What is true is that Madara manipulated Obito, not Tobirama. Orochimaru used Edo Tensei against Hiruzen, not Tobirama. They are to blame for their actions.

 

[Bluntss]

-His decision to seclude them which led to the revolt was based off a number of factors one of them being Madara's actions
-I believe him leaving the village was his paranoia along with Izuna's death
-No
-Possibly but I believe the biggest factor behind the massacre was the Kyubi's attack and Danzo's actions
-This goes all the way back about Madara leaving the village

Why would he then create the village in the first place, Izuna was all ready dead by then. Madara and Hashirama started a new chapter when they made the village, a new start where the Senju and Uchiha could live peacefully together. Hashirama was ready to live together with the Uchiha as their allies, but Tobirama was not ready to let go of the past and still did not trust the Uchiha, which they made a truce with. Madara overheard this and simply wanted the best for his clan, but they did not listen. Tobirama is mainly/partly the reason why Madara left the village.

 

[SilverSlick]

Why would he then create the village in the first place, Izuna was all ready dead by then. Madara and Hashirama started a new chapter when they made the village, a new start where the Senju and Uchiha could live peacefully together. Hashirama was ready to live together with the Uchiha as their allies, but Tobirama was not ready to let go of the past and still did not trust the Uchiha, which they made a truce with. Madara overheard this and simply wanted the best for his clan. Tobirama is mainly/partly the reason why Madara left the village.

That's paranoia bro. Madara was victim of that curse of hatred, Hashirama and Tobirama seem to think this[

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]. Madara lost two of the most important things in his life. His brother and his clan, who had turned their back on him. Its just what happens.

 

[Waltz]

Beliefs, opinions, its all the same. Your opinions hold no more value than mine.

@the first two Their political power, at that time in the story, was lost as a result of the Kyuubi incident. Since the Uchiha were known to be the only ones possible of controlling a tailed beast in that manner, they took the blame. In your second point, you only confirm what I've been saying. Madara left as a result of his own paranoia and preconceptions which were proven to be false. The Uchiha were never exterminated during Tobirama's reign. Again, you're ignoring another reason as to why he left: Izuna's death. You can't deny Madara was a victim of the curse of hatred. Its a biological fact. I made this point earlier, Hashirama and Tobirama had Madara in their mind while Tobirama was trying to explain.


@Your last 3. We can use cop-outs all day. Using such logic as that, we could say the Sage is to blame for having sons. Where does it stop? What is true is that Madara manipulated Obito, not Tobirama. Orochimaru used Edo Tensei against Hiruzen, not Tobirama. They are to blame for their actions.

The difference is, my points are supported by the manga.

-> Link me where it implies madara left because of izuna
-> Madara disagree's with the bold as, my previous post.
-> Tobirama's reign brought about their extermination, he is directly related to the incident as, my previous post.
-> Madara didn't leave the village out of hate, his curse (yes he is a victim) began when he returned as an avenger.

-> The sage was never advised not to have children. Hashirama advised Tobirama not to develop the jutsu for certain reasons, he paid no mind to it and it is the cause of the listed events as, my previous post. Orochimaru also agrees to this.

Your rebuttals are circular and diverting from canon; losing quality.

 

[CrimsonFire]

Agreed U_U

 

[Minator93]

I agree completely, in fact I thought of the same thing after watching Danzo's death episode!!