Hashirama's narration is skewed

[shelke]

I am going to ignore that first Paragraph.

1: Uchiha Clan joined forces? Is it implied in the manga? I am not going to retouch what I have said all over again.

2: Questioning and taking his word as law are two completely different scenarios. The point is lack of information about the Clan's conflicts. He has no way of knowing it no matter how many times you try your hand at this empty logic.

3: Second Part: "If one country hired the Senju .... hired Uchiha". What are you endeavouring to say with this point?

4: "Out Clan was ... Standing up to them". What is lacking in this argument? You excursions are lacking themselves. It is kind of blatantly obvious that factions are hired through merit, background, and their strength. And Uchihas were able to stand up to them, hence the hires. Now you are clearly and desperately grasping at straws. That page itself proves it. You are making it sound as if Uchiha Clan somehow forced the hiring Nations into granting them these tasks. You have got to be kidding me. That doesn't even make a shred of sense.

Second best Clan to lower their chances of Victory? A Clan is able to stand up to another on grounds of equality. It's common sense if anything. What an argument that another nation doled out free money on a Clan that was outclassed by the other that would completely destroyed their chances of any victory from the get go. Too funny.

Don't shower yourself with too much undue flattery. There is nothing to digest here. If anything, these plotholes can be spotted from a mile by a scuttling grandma without her thick glasses.

 

[Anorien16]

I am going to ignore that first Paragraph.

1: Uchiha Clan joined forces? Is it implied in the manga? I am not going to retouch what I have said all over again.

2: Questioning and taking his word as law are two completely different scenarios. The point is lack of information about the Clan's conflicts. He has no way of knowing it no matter how many times you try your hand at this empty logic.

3: Second Part: "If one country hired the Senju .... hired Uchiha". What are you endeavouring to say with this point?

4: "Out Clan was ... Standing up to them". What is lacking in this argument? You excursions are lacking themselves. It is kind of blatantly obvious that factions are hired through merit, background, and their strength. And Uchihas were able to stand up to them, hence the hires. Now you are clearly and desperately grasping at straws. That page itself proves it. You are making it sound as if Uchiha Clan somehow forced the hiring Nations into granting them these tasks. You have got to be kidding me. That doesn't even make a shred of sense.

Second best Clan to lower their chances of Victory? A Clan is able to stand up to another on grounds of equality. It's common sense if anything. What an argument that another nation doled out free money on a Clan that was outclassed by the other that would completely destroyed their chances of any victory from the get go. Too funny.

Don't shower yourself with too much undue flattery. There is nothing to digest here. If anything, these plotholes can be spotted from a mile by a scuttling grandma without her thick glasses.

1.

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Well Unless it was a three way battle ..... the Uchiha and Hagomoro joined forces.

2. So, u mean to say Hashirama didnt question the the defectors why they were switching sides and got to know exactly why? Defector, in other words traitors are best way to get intel and Hashirama didnt use it to get the truth? Not to mention the fact Hashirama was later allies and might have come to know their history from the Uchiha friendly to them . . . . ur just refusing to look at possibilities.

3. \/ \/

4. "Out Clan was ... Standing up to them" which means the Uchiha clan was to only clan capable of standing up to the Senju which kinda implies that the Uchiha were kind closest to Senju in power, nowhere it means the Uchiha were equal or greater . . . . Well its not kinda balantly obvious that any country hired the Uchiha as first choice, which means... and as per Tobi's word's if some one hired the Senju the other hired the Uchiha and nowhere it is stated the reverse, so my point still stands .... Also u dont seem to get the basics: If u cant hire the best, hire the next strongest, which is the Uchiha.

But u do have a point..... it was seemingly Hashirama's ascension that turned the favor towards the Senju and untill that point it can be considered that the Uchiha and the Senju were fairly close in power before Hashirama's Era perhaps with balance shifting from one to another from time to time. What is definitely sure is: With Hashirama's ascension the Senju rose from fairly equal to the best.... and Hashirama is slightly stronger than Madara.

 

[shelke]

1: So you basically have no manga scan to prove so? That much was certain.

2: In one scan two guys were left on the battlefield when Madara fled to save his fatally wounded brother. Those people couldn't possibly lie to save their lives so that the other clan out to kill them would grant them refuge in lieu of outright slaughtering them on the battlefield? This didn't seem to cross your mind?

3: No it doesn't. Stand up to another implies second best in which damn language? Show me, right now. I know Urdu, I know Punjabi, I hold considerable command over English. Just pick out a single reference in this regard from any of these languages. You don't have any argument here. Why would any Nation waste its resources on a second best Clan? Does that make any sense to you?

Would you hire a bounty hunter or any man to get the job done or oppose another who outsmarts/outclasses your hire by default? Would you willingly throw away your money on a faction who doesn't match up to the others potential and would get bested as it's outclassed by logic? You get my point in your last paragraph. Thank god for that.

 

[KingHashirama]

1.

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Well Unless it was a three way battle ..... the Uchiha and Hagomoro joined forces.

2. So, u mean to say Hashirama didnt question the the defectors why they were switching sides and got to know exactly why? Defector, in other words traitors are best way to get intel and Hashirama didnt use it to get the truth? Not to mention the fact Hashirama was later allies and might have come to know their history from the Uchiha friendly to them . . . . ur just refusing to look at possibilities.

3. \/ \/

4. "Out Clan was ... Standing up to them" which means the Uchiha clan was to only clan capable of standing up to the Senju which kinda implies that the Uchiha were kind closest to Senju in power, nowhere it means the Uchiha were equal or greater . . . . Well its not kinda balantly obvious that any country hired the Uchiha as first choice, which means... and as per Tobi's word's if some one hired the Senju the other hired the Uchiha and nowhere it is stated the reverse, so my point still stands .... Also u dont seem to get the basics: If u cant hire the best, hire the next strongest, which is the Uchiha.

But u do have a point..... it was seemingly Hashirama's ascension that turned the favor towards the Senju and untill that point it can be considered that the Uchiha and the Senju were fairly close in power before Hashirama's Era perhaps with balance shifting from one to another from time to time. What is definitely sure is: With Hashirama's ascension the Senju rose from fairly equal to the best.... and Hashirama is slightly stronger than Madara.

You had good points all the way through.. But then you became a typical hashirama underrater when you stated the BOLD and underlined.

 

[U C H I H A]

I am not sure, what to say to this but good job!

 

[Anorien16]

1: So you basically have no manga scan to prove so? That much was certain.

Well its 50%-50%......

2: In one scan two guys were left on the battlefield when Madara fled to save his fatally wounded brother. Those people couldn't possibly lie to save their lives so that the other clan out to kill them would grant them refuge in lieu of outright slaughtering them on the battlefield? This didn't seem to cross your mind?

Thats surrendering not defecting...... so unless Hashirama is lieing that he saw defectors who joined his clan, my point stands.

3: No it doesn't. Stand up to another implies second best in which damn language? Show me, right now. I know Urdu, I know Punjabi, I hold considerable command over English.

Stand up to means 'equal' at best nothing more nothing less.....

Just pick out a single reference in this regard from any of these languages.

Quite hard to do so as most languages dont have perfectly equivalent phases between them.

You don't have any argument here. Why would any Nation waste its resources on a second best Clan? Does that make any sense to you?

Yes, cos if my enemies number 1 whom am I going to hire? Number 3? number 13? or number 2?

Would you hire a bounty hunter or any man to get the job done or oppose another who outsmarts/outclasses your hire by default? Would you willingly throw away your money on a faction who doesn't match up to the others potential and would get bested as it's outclassed by logic?

Thar depends a lot on the situation ..... (I am sorry I didnt mention this) But Shinobi are not hired for only their fighting skills, while the Senju may be superior in battle, the Uchiha may be better at infiltration, detection, spying, retrieving etc. which are the other aspects of being a Shinobi.

Also a will let u answer this time: If your enemies hires the best mercenaries, what you would do?

You get my point in your last paragraph. Thank god for that.

I dont think our argument dates back to pre Hashirama era..... but since we agree to the Hashirama Era situation I guess we have no more conflict?

 

[TrollingSage]

1: So you basically have no manga scan to prove so? That much was certain.

2: In one scan two guys were left on the battlefield when Madara fled to save his fatally wounded brother. Those people couldn't possibly lie to save their lives so that the other clan out to kill them would grant them refuge in lieu of outright slaughtering them on the battlefield? This didn't seem to cross your mind?

3: No it doesn't. Stand up to another implies second best in which damn language? Show me, right now. I know Urdu, I know Punjabi, I hold considerable command over English. Just pick out a single reference in this regard from any of these languages. You don't have any argument here. Why would any Nation waste its resources on a second best Clan? Does that make any sense to you?

Would you hire a bounty hunter or any man to get the job done or oppose another who outsmarts/outclasses your hire by default? Would you willingly throw away your money on a faction who doesn't match up to the others potential and would get bested as it's outclassed by logic? You get my point in your last paragraph. Thank god for that.

Simple answer is yes! The fact that u would pretend thats an argument shows ur bias. OFC senju came out superior in most cases but at the expense of fallen comrades. It was war. There is no doubt uchiha may win on some encounters. Unless u are unfamiliar with war. Rome was world power but may still lose some battles against Macedon generals(not a full head on). That in no way means macedonians are equal or superior. JUST AN EXAMPLE

 

[shelke]

@Anorien16 I am only going to pick up the points that are a bit relevant.

- No, all languages would have equivalents for this phrase. This has basically nothing to do with translations but the presence of actual 'equality' notion brought about by a collection of lexicons. I have no idea who even gave you the impression that all Languages don't share this 'thought' similarity.

- Shallow and unreasonable opinion. When one side hires one Clan, the other strives to hire someone who can bear the burden of the responsibility and get the task done. Second Best is just that, second best; a clan doomed to fail on this ground of inferiority. No one would hire such a Clan.

- The concept of Shinobi in NarutoVerse is aligned with Political Factions and actual governmental systems; a fact that was largely absent during times of war save for possibly a handful of villages. Is there anything in the manga that suggests that both Clans were hired for anything other than combat? If you have proof, I am all eyes and ears.

My answer? Hire the Clan that levels out the Power Tier. Why should I waste my money intentionally on a second class Clan?

 

[AlphaScythian]

@KingHashirama "Izuna gave his eyes to his brother and eventually dies in battle". Do you see what's wrong with this picture now?

Supported. It made no sense ever since ive heard this BS. How some1 blind goes to fight some one especially senjus. And obviously manga doesnt support this databook statement, as there were no blind izuna on battlefield.

 

[AlphaScythian]

Well its 50%-50%......

This could be a sole example. Some hired uchihas to try them out in addition to hagomore. Once uchiha power was noted it was all uchiha then.

Thats surrendering not defecting...... so unless Hashirama is lieing that he saw defectors who joined his clan, my point stands.

Most likely defectors appeared after hashirama proposed peace. Uchihas were tired of 10 years of war, izuna was dead, which was big blow to uchihas strength, so couple overly sensitive or cowards defected.

Stand up to means 'equal' at best nothing more nothing less.....

Stand up mean a lot of things. Bottom line it means uchihas were good enough to fight senju, as they did for 10 years so. Painfully outclassed, goes against it.

Yes, cos if my enemies number 1 whom am I going to hire? Number 3? number 13? or number 2?

Thats true, but ur not going to hire some totally outclassed just for the sake of hiring, it would be a stupid waste of money.

Thar depends a lot on the situation ..... (I am sorry I didnt mention this) But Shinobi are not hired for only their fighting skills, while the Senju may be superior in battle, the Uchiha may be better at infiltration, detection, spying, retrieving etc. which are the other aspects of being a Shinobi.

Yes uchihas are great in all those u mentioned, but senju too had sensors and 1000 jutsus.

Also a will let u answer this time: If your enemies hires the best mercenaries, what you would do?

U hire more mercenaries. Ultimately its up to money.

I dont think our argument dates back to pre Hashirama era..... but since we agree to the Hashirama Era situation I guess we have no more conflict?

And i dont think "painfully outclassed" dates to pre izuna death. Only after it, uchiha down fall makes sense.