Hashirama's narration is skewed

[Booker]

- Where did he get the idea of defection based on being outclassed?
- Has no way of determining Uchiha clan's internal conflicts.
- Has no way of ascertaining factors that led to defection.
- Has placed an 'outclassed' tag, without having any knowledge on the aforementioned factors.
- Doesn't take into account the constant tussles that could be the reasons behind the defection.
- The inferiority comment that led to defection lacks any solid evidence.
- His emotions analysis is groundless.

How many are these? Seven, I believe.

- The Senju were destroying the Uchiha to the point they defected. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- When did he suggest he knew the Uchiha clan's inner conflicts? *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- Yes he does. The Senju were wiping the floor with the Uchiha, which is why they defected. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- What aforementioned factors? What are you talking about? It's obvious the Uchihas were outclassed because they were being wrecked. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- What constant tussles? What? This is the same as saying they defected because they were tired of getting killed by the Senju. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- Lacks evidence? LOL, how's this for evidence: The Senju were destroying the Uchiha. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- Emotions analysis? Are you trying to sound smart or something, what the f*ck is this supposed to mean? *NOT A LOOPHOLE*

 

[AlphaScythian]

Izanagi takes away one eye and thus is more costly.... so why would Tobi waste Izanagi when he has MS for 5 min?

He had that eye specifically for izanagi. Wasting MS is illogical, better save it for more fighting thus he would take full effect of izanagi.

And your proof that Tobi would be dumb enough to be stay in the blasting region when he can move away from it using Izanagi? Also where did that Rod come from?

Nowhere did it say u can move much around with izanagi, but technically he could, but he didnt. Black rod came from zetsu body, which had madara's will - black rod.

Also ur disregarding the amount of of Senju Cells each had ..... Tobi had half a body while Danzo had a lot less: Now considering Danzo was non Uchiha, Senju DNA would bring him up to level of a regular Uchiha... so perhaps 1 min.As for when is Madara shown to use Izanagi in a regular body?

Madara wasnt show to use izanagi but madara can use makuton better n bigger. Further more how much DNA kabuto used to get all those KKG didnt it grant him ability no matter how many blood drops he had? Its just complete DNA puzzle.

Anyway.... Danzo too had a about 10 min of Izanagi combined ... It didnt help him in the end.

And its not good argument

 

[AlphaScythian]

- The Senju were destroying the Uchiha to the point they defected. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- When did he suggest he knew the Uchiha clan's inner conflicts? *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- Yes he does. The Senju were wiping the floor with the Uchiha, which is why they defected. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- What aforementioned factors? What are you talking about? It's obvious the Uchihas were outclassed because they were being wrecked. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- What constant tussles? What? This is the same as saying they defected because they were tired of getting killed by the Senju. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- Lacks evidence? LOL, how's this for evidence: The Senju were destroying the Uchiha. *NOT A LOOPHOLE*
- Emotions analysis? Are you trying to sound smart or something, what the f*ck is this supposed to mean? *NOT A LOOPHOLE*

So uchihas battled it out for like 10 yeas vs senju and hashirama labels them outclassed?
Hashirama proposed peace madara turned it down. Uchihas grew tired of war and started to turn back on madara, some overly sensitive defected.
Izuna gave him his eyes in last attempt to change the tide of war, outnumbered w/o support madara failed.
Madara isnt liar either, in fact he's brutally honest. So far what we learned fits perfectly to what madara/obito said.
And i think madara would know of his clan better then hashirama, no point in even dabating on this

So dude has the point, hashirama claims here are hugely misleading at very least, not that he lied intentionally.

 

[Booker]

So uchihas battled it out for like 10 yeas vs senju and hashirama labels them outclassed?
Hashirama proposed peace madara turned it down. Uchihas grew tired of war and started to turn back on madara, some overly sensitive defected.
Izuna gave him his eyes in last attempt to change the tide of war, outnumbered w/o support madara failed.
Madara isnt liar either, in fact he's brutally honest. So far what we learned fits perfectly to what madara/obito said.
And i think madara would know of his clan better then hashirama, no point in even dabating on this

So dude has the point, hashirama claims here are hugely misleading at very least, not that he lied intentionally.

Hashirama, and even Obito, have said before that the Senju > The Uchiha.

Sorry, but that's manga fact. Hashirama is telling the truth, the Uchiha defected because they were tired of getting their sh*t stomped.

 

[Lightbringer]

Anyone who doubts what he says is a fanboy, whose mad. Kishimoto specifically brought them back so sasuke can get the history.. and now Hashirama is giving the canon history. Also, Obito already put Senju over the Uchiha in his flashbacks.

Still, Hashirama >>> Itachi and Obito.. as far credibility goes. But since most of you who are doubting Hashirama are fanboys of EVIL characters.. you wouldn't understand the difference between a Good guy and a Bad guy.

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and you do?

good and evil is subjective....Hashirama still killed people and chose to be a ninja, which still would define him as evil to some extent

why couldn't he live a life of a priest and share teachings of wisdom like the SO6P? Why couldn't he transform his clan into a monastery of monks(which there were in the world)?

 

[TrollingSage]

This is the Uchiha's perspective.

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Wanna argue with that too fanboy?

 

[yep]

Has Hashirama ever been known to lie like Itachi and Obito? No, he hasn't. He's telling the truth- the Senju were far more superior than the Uchiha under his leadership and those fancy doujutsu techs were most likely rendered useless.
Now stop crying about it and move on. Senju>Uchiha;Hashirama>Madara;Tobirama>Izuna. U_U

lol we haven't seen anyone except Madara using dojutsus
those Uchihas were fodder compared to Obito/Itachi/Sasuke
that's why Senjus were able to pwn them

 

[Anorien16]

He had that eye specifically for izanagi. Wasting MS is illogical, better save it for more fighting thus he would take full effect of izanagi.

Tobi can stay more than 5 min in ghost form in a stretch.... seemingly he just has to break ghost form to reset the timer. Cant see the logic behind 'wasting' the MS.

Nowhere did it say u can move much around with izanagi, but technically he could,

Danzo died at one place and appeared at another.....

but he didnt.

How do u know?

Black rod came from zetsu body, which had madara's will - black rod.

Ohh... i have forgotten some pages then, can u please link the chapters or pages where Tobi had black zetsu in him and that could produce metal like rods.

Madara wasnt show to use izanagi but madara can use makuton better n bigger.

LoL ok ok . . . . Hashirama's wood dragon handled twice strong Kurama and changed to Mokudemon, while Madara......

Further more how much DNA kabuto used to get all those KKG didnt it grant him ability no matter how many blood drops he had? Its just complete DNA puzzle.

Kabuto probably used their DNA to overwrite Orochimaru's Body's Cells to have those abilities and then enhanced them with SM . . . . thats only a speculation and I wont use that......

Anyway note that little amount DNA of a KKG can grant a abilty but Snju Cells are different as they provides no ability (but Hashi DNA provides Mokuton ability) but increases stamina and chakra ..... so more cells one has more stamina and chakra he will have to enhance his techs.

And its not good argument

But a technical one..... Izanagi does not automatically guarantees you victory .

lol we haven't seen anyone except Madara using dojutsus
those Uchihas were fodder compared to Obito/Itachi/Sasuke
that's why Senjus were able to pwn them

Spoiler

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Well at least some had them...... where as we dont even know what Senju clan specialty was, which makes them the greater fodder by your logic.

 

[shelke]

Madara is leagues above him..... at that point lmao. And also, he challenged solely Hashirama. ^_^. Pretty hard fanboyism to think he took all of them on for 24 hours.

This wouldn't be hard fanboyism if it wasn't backed by those Manga Scans. It's like denial in the face of facts. Hashirama probably didn't have SM then, OR lacked a perfected mode, as this is before a truce ever took place and any village was made. So this could be years before their final fight at the valley of the end. At that point, both of them look a lot older.

Madara challenged Konoha the second time:

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. Hence this time, he could have challenged the entire Senju clan, which would explain why not a single Uchiha is on the panel; not even a single dead body even. He seems/appears quite hot-headed.

-They were continuously fighting.... so they should know who the slightly superiors warriors were....
- The defectors can talk u know?
- Above ^^^^
- The above ^^^^ solves the problem
- Again the defector can talk about that to Hashirama.
- Above ^^^^^
- Perhaps or perhaps not...

And the defectors’ words could be taken as facts; you mean the people who defected/ betrayed their clan and in order to get amalgamated into the other, told them (Senju Clan) that they hold the high ground in the battle so they wouldn’t have to continue fighting as an opposition and lose more loved ones to war? Sounds just about right. Not to mention the Ninjas left behind on the battlefield in one of the scans defected? Yeah, they can never lie to allude slaughter.

Highly doubt it. The manga has offered two 180 Degree statements. The Uchiha Clan were never wiped out. Sure, when people left the Clan was weakened and Madara after losing his brother probably challenged all Senju clan –which would be logical considering his conversation with Hashirama on grounds of ‘trust’ - like he did the second time when he challenged the entire village, fought about ten of them and lost.

His life was spared at this point. Do you honestly believe this happened ALL the time? This goes completely against the Mercenary Clans’ past both clans equally share. Why weren’t Uchihas wiped out then? If Senju Clan held such a high ground, why weren’t the rest of them killed? Let’s be honest and not deliberately kid ourselves here, Hashirama only cares about Madara. He was not concerned when Tobirama killed Izuna, nor was he concerned when Uchiha corpses littered the ground – the scan shows several dead shionboi from both clans lying on the ground.

If you venture this that he told his clan to spare Uchiha Clan members, then this would be nothing but nonsense. The fact remains that his opinions make no sense at this point in time. Their Clan’s Statuses as Mercenary factions is an undisputed fact. Uchiha Clan surviving under Madara for a long time before Truce ever took place, is another undisputed fact. When these two facts cannot be challenged, Hashirama’s tell-tale can very well be. As it’s groundless, up-in-the-air, without much of a merit, and completely disregards several Historical Facts established by the manga/author himself/itself.

Hence, I am not buying this rubbish of his.

 

[Booker]

This wouldn't be hard fanboyism if it wasn't backed by those Manga Scans. It's like denial in the face of facts. Hashirama probably didn't have SM then, OR lacked a perfected mode, as this is before a truce ever took place and any village was made. So this could be years before their final fight at the valley of the end. At that point, both of them look a lot older.

Madara challenged Konoha the second time:

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. Hence this time, he could have challenged the entire Senju clan, which would explain why not a single Uchiha is on the panel; not even a single dead body even. He seems/appears quite hot-headed.



And the defectors’ words could be taken as facts; you mean the people who defected/ betrayed their clan and in order to get amalgamated into the other, told them (Senju Clan) that they hold the high ground in the battle so they wouldn’t have to continue fighting as an opposition and lose more loved ones to war? Sounds just about right. Not to mention the Ninjas left behind on the battlefield in one of the scans defected? Yeah, they can never lie to allude slaughter.

Highly doubt it. The manga has offered two 180 Degree statements. The Uchiha Clan were never wiped out. Sure, when people left the Clan was weakened and Madara after losing his brother probably challenged all Senju clan –which would be logical considering his conversation with Hashirama on grounds of ‘trust’ - like he did the second time when he challenged the entire village, fought about ten of them and lost.

His life was spared at this point. Do you honestly believe this happened ALL the time? This goes completely against the Mercenary Clans’ past both clans equally share. Why weren’t Uchihas wiped out then? If Senju Clan held such a high ground, why weren’t the rest of them killed? Let’s be honest and not deliberately kid ourselves here, Hashirama only cares about Madara. He was not concerned when Tobirama killed Izuna, nor was he concerned when Uchiha corpses littered the ground – the scan shows several dead shionboi from both clans lying on the ground.

If you venture this that he told his clan to spare Uchiha Clan members, then this would be nothing but nonsense. The fact remains that his opinions make no sense at this point in time. Their Clan’s Statuses as Mercenary factions is an undisputed fact. Uchiha Clan surviving under Madara for a long time before Truce ever took place, is another undisputed fact. When these two facts cannot be challenged, Hashirama’s tell-tale can very well be. As it’s groundless, up-in-the-air, without much of a merit, and completely disregards several Historical Facts established by the manga/author himself/itself.

Hence, I am not buying this rubbish of his.

What a stupid Uchiha fanboy.

Hashirama's word is Kishimoto's word, since he is currently giving us the backstory on the Uchiha/Senju. Are you really going to sit there and try to argue with the author?

lol, good luck.

 

[TrollingSage]

This wouldn't be hard fanboyism if it wasn't backed by those Manga Scans. It's like denial in the face of facts. Hashirama probably didn't have SM then, OR lacked a perfected mode, as this is before a truce ever took place and any village was made. So this could be years before their final fight at the valley of the end. At that point, both of them look a lot older.

Madara challenged Konoha the second time:

You must be registered for see links

. Hence this time, he could have challenged the entire Senju clan, which would explain why not a single Uchiha is on the panel; not even a single dead body even. He seems/appears quite hot-headed.



And the defectors’ words could be taken as facts; you mean the people who defected/ betrayed their clan and in order to get amalgamated into the other, told them (Senju Clan) that they hold the high ground in the battle so they wouldn’t have to continue fighting as an opposition and lose more loved ones to war? Sounds just about right. Not to mention the Ninjas left behind on the battlefield in one of the scans defected? Yeah, they can never lie to allude slaughter.

Highly doubt it. The manga has offered two 180 Degree statements. The Uchiha Clan were never wiped out. Sure, when people left the Clan was weakened and Madara after losing his brother probably challenged all Senju clan –which would be logical considering his conversation with Hashirama on grounds of ‘trust’ - like he did the second time when he challenged the entire village, fought about ten of them and lost.

His life was spared at this point. Do you honestly believe this happened ALL the time? This goes completely against the Mercenary Clans’ past both clans equally share. Why weren’t Uchihas wiped out then? If Senju Clan held such a high ground, why weren’t the rest of them killed? Let’s be honest and not deliberately kid ourselves here, Hashirama only cares about Madara. He was not concerned when Tobirama killed Izuna, nor was he concerned when Uchiha corpses littered the ground – the scan shows several dead shionboi from both clans lying on the ground.

If you venture this that he told his clan to spare Uchiha Clan members, then this would be nothing but nonsense. The fact remains that his opinions make no sense at this point in time. Their Clan’s Statuses as Mercenary factions is an undisputed fact. Uchiha Clan surviving under Madara for a long time before Truce ever took place, is another undisputed fact. When these two facts cannot be challenged, Hashirama’s tell-tale can very well be. As it’s groundless, up-in-the-air, without much of a merit, and completely disregards several Historical Facts established by the manga/author himself/itself.

Hence, I am not buying this rubbish of his.

Yes you can tell there's no Uchiha within miles of Madara from the scan that only shows the few metres around Madara right? There's no way the Uchiha corpses were lying a few centimeters out of range of the scan.
If we're going to argue like that then this scan shows he challenged Hashirama alone

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[AlphaScythian]

Tobi can stay more than 5 min in ghost form in a stretch.... seemingly he just has to break ghost form to reset the timer. Cant see the logic behind 'wasting' the MS.

What is ur point here? i dont get it

Danzo died at one place and appeared at another.....

True, but its was rather random, he didnt appear behind sasuke to stab him.

Ohh... i have forgotten some pages then, can u please link the chapters or pages where Tobi had black zetsu in him and that could produce metal like rods.

When rin died obito had black rods growing out of him. I dont think it was mokuton, remember madara made spiral zetsu especially for obito. And where u think did he get rod to stab konan?

LoL ok ok . . . . Hashirama's wood dragon handled twice strong Kurama and changed to Mokudemon, while Madara......

Depends, laser bijudama is super effective vs mokuton, normal one isnt. PnJ

Anyway note that little amount DNA of a KKG can grant a abilty but Snju Cells are different as they provides no ability (but Hashi DNA provides Mokuton ability) but increases stamina and chakra ..... so more cells one has more stamina and chakra he will have to enhance his techs.

Doesnt matter how much chakra or stamina hashirama cells give, its the quality that decides izanagi time.

But a technical one..... Izanagi does not automatically guarantees you victory .

True, but hey even fodder can fake death and back stab kage lvl when the guard is down

 

[AlphaScythian]

Yes you can tell there's no Uchiha within miles of Madara from the scan that only shows the few metres around Madara right? There's no way the Uchiha corpses were lying a few centimeters out of range of the scan.
If we're going to argue like that then this scan shows he challenged Hashirama alone.

Yet there is confirmed reason as to why madara was alone. He said himself no uchiha view him with high regard, not any more.
Even if madara challenged hashirama alone the fact is that many senju including tobirama joined the fight vs madara as they have battle signs. and i dont think hashi would allow that, if it was any kind of duel.

 

[shelke]

What a stupid Uchiha fanboy.

Hashirama's word is Kishimoto's word, since he is currently giving us the backstory on the Uchiha/Senju. Are you really going to sit there and try to argue with the author?

lol, good luck.

Says the guy who can't even grasp basic Plot mechanics and that NO writer (Verse writer, poet, Playwright) has the power to get out of them, not even Shakespeare/Sophocles/Vergil. Is it genetics, or were you the unlucky one? Good Luck with your future life, you are going to need it. lol

@Trolling Sage When NO Uchiha is shown, you can't assume they were there. Where is the scan that shows even a single corpse? Show me.

 

[Booker]

Says the guy who can't even grasp basic Plot mechanics and that NO writer (Verse writer, poet, Playwright) has the power to get out of them, not even Shakespeare/Sophocles/Vergil. Is it genetics, or were you the unlucky one? Good Luck with your future life, you are going to need it. lol

@Trolling Sage When NO Uchiha is shown, you can't assume they were there. Where is the scan that shows even a single corpse? Show me.

Somebodie's mad because Kishi is putting the Senju > the Uchiha.

Look, plot mechanics and all that garbage has nothing to do with this. You're over-analyzing it.

Kishi is giving us the backstory of the Uchiha/Senju through Hashirama. No ifs, ands, or buts.

You say I'm the stupid one, yet YOU can't seem to grasp that it doesn't matter what you think, Kishimoto is writing the story and he gets to decide what happens. Senju > Uchiha, and Hashirama is a reliable source of information on the backstory between the two.

Arguing against the author just makes you look like a fool.

 

[shelke]

^ That Garbage? Excuse me while I laugh my ass off in the corner. You don't know what you are talking about, do you? My God. This base harbours people like you? Why am I not surprised. Without Plot rules, this guy can't write single sentence. Let alone churn out a manga. Where is your head stuck at?

P.s: Drop this discussion here, when we are discussing this over VMs.

 

[Booker]

^ That Garbage? Excuse me while I laugh my ass off in the corner. You don't know what you are talking about, do you? My God. This base harbours people like you? Why am I not surprised. Without Plot rules, this guy can't write single sentence. Let alone churn out a manga. Where is your head stuck at?

P.s: Drop this discussion here, when we are discussing this over VMs.

Somebody is mad because he can't argue with Manga...

 

[shelke]

^ I don't get mad over the internet of all the places. If you believe that; you must have an insufferably pointless life. My sympathies. Stop sounding like a Monkey's left nut. Either take this discussion off this thread, or continue on with your ****-and-bull Rubbish.

 

[AlphaScythian]

What a stupid Uchiha fanboy.
Hashirama's word is Kishimoto's word, since he is currently giving us the backstory on the Uchiha/Senju. Are you really going to sit there and try to argue with the author?
lol, good luck.

Lol u call some1 fanboy while BS like this comes from ur mouth?
Hashirama's word isnt kishi word and no one's word is for that matter. What are u 6?
Kishi currently gives senju view, of what happened, together with that of madara its up to us to reveal truth.

So go cut on bias and fanboyism urself.

 

[Booker]

Lol u call some1 fanboy while BS like this comes from ur mouth?
Hashirama's word isnt kishi word and no one's word is for that matter. What are u 6?
Kishi currently gives senju view, of what happened, together with that of madara its up to us to reveal truth.

So go cut on bias and fanboyism urself.

(1) I'm not a fanboy of anything.

(2) Kishimoto's telling the story through Hashirama, so it can be taken as the truth.