[Theory] Kishi Sama Foreshadowed Madara Killing Izuna In Chapter 624

Sherlock.

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In Chapter 624 we saw Tobirama slashing through Izuna and later an EMS Madara saying Izuna died of Tobirama's attack wounds....
Later we see EMS Madara defeated by Hashirama and when Hashirama asks him how Hashi can gain Madara's trust....
Madara gives him two choices -
Hashirama.... Either kill yourself or your brother Tobirama....

I will first use a few Manga Pages from Chapter 624 itself before I tell what Kishi sama might be foreshadowing....




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In the above pictures when Hashirama is trying to persuade Madara to stop fighting and form The Senju - Uchiha Truce.... Madara seems to agree with Hashirama.... If you look at Madara's expression.... It suggests that Madara too is giving a thought to the Truce.... But.... Izuna who was above all for Madara didn't really wanted the Truce and asked Madara to not to fall for what Hashi said....




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The Uchiha started to lose more and more to the Senjus.... The reason being Madara's ineffective leadership.... Madara loved Izuna above all.... Also Madara wanted peace since childhood which Hashirama was offering him but Izuna didn't wanted to compromise....
Madara was torn between Izuna and Hashirama.... This might have affected Madara's leadership skills and so The Uchiha started being outclassed more and more by the Senjus and finally some Uchiha considered it better to get defected and join forces with The Senjus....




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Two statements made by Madara in the above picture are quite interesting.... The first is where Madara tells Hashirama,"If its you,I can go in peace." which symbolises Madara still considering Hashirama a really good friend....
Second is where Madara talks about the young Uchiha saying,"The Uchiha don't view me with regard.... Not anymore." I wonder why..?? ;) ;)




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Madara gave Hashi two choices.... "Either kill yourself or your brother Tobirama." Madara was in no position to ask something like that to Hashi.... He still said so cause Madara wanted to test Hashirama.... Madara wanted to test whether Hashirama could make the same sacrifice for peace as Madara had made.... So what sacrifice did exactly Madara made..??




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I think Madara realized that continuing to fight the Senjus was useless.... And even most of The Uchiha Clan members wanted peace now except maybe Izuna.... So Madara killed Izuna....




My Conclusion....
Kishi sama showed how Madara still considered Hashi a good friend and how even Madara wanted peace....

He showed some Uchiha realizing that fighting the Senjus was useless and it was better to get defected and join forces with The Senju instead of dying....

Kishi Sama showed Tobirama injuring Izuna and later Madara saying Izuna died due to those injuries....

But he never really showed one thing.... He never showed Izuna dying.... Kishi Sama just showed Izuna getting injured.... If Izuna really would have died at the hands of Hashi or Tobirama.... Kishi Sama would have directly shown it.... The entire injury thing seems to be a cover up for the twist about Izuna's death that will later come up....

I think Madara knew that clashing more and more with the Senjus meant The Uchihas destruction.... But Izuna won't listen.... So to get peace Madara killed Izuna....

He might have felt it better to kill Izuna himself than to let Izuna die at the hands of the Senjus.... I'm saying this cause Madara himself prefered to die at Hashi's hands who was close to Madara rather than dying at the hands of someone else....

When asked by Hashi.... Madara tested him by giving him two choices.... "Kill yourself or your brother Tobirama." cause he wanted to see if Hashi was ready to pay similar price for peace as Madara himself did....

I think Kishi Sama foreshadowed Izuna's death at the hands of Madara in Chapter 624....

This is just a theory.... :D :D
 

Draphsin

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Re: [Theory] Something That Kishi Sama Foreshadowed In Chapter 624

wow, that is a bold statement my firend, seems pretty far fetched :p
 
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Re: [Theory] Something That Kishi Sama Foreshadowed In Chapter 624

Well done bro u are are the first one iin th world to get compliment from me
 

Sherlock.

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Re: [Theory] Something That Kishi Sama Foreshadowed In Chapter 624

wow, that is a bold statement my firend, seems pretty far fetched :p

Yeah.... Thats why I made d theory using the Manga pages.... cause the idea might take a bit time to digest but given the hints.... I feel it is possible.... :D :D
 

XMorpheus

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Re: [Theory] Something That Kishi Sama Foreshadowed In Chapter 624

Wow good theory.it does make sense to me.
quite plausible.nice theory again
 

Zee Seh

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Re: [Theory] Something That Kishi Sama Foreshadowed In Chapter 624

hmm interesting theory...
 

Typhon Uchiha

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Re: [Theory] Something That Kishi Sama Foreshadowed In Chapter 624

Wow! Very nice theory, if its true then then it shows why Madara later goes on a rampage, because hashirama obviously doesn't kill himself or his brother...
 

Ezekier

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Re: [Theory] Something That Kishi Sama Foreshadowed In Chapter 624

interesting ^_^ add the Uchiha pride as a factor, Izuna would have wanted to die in the hands of his brother rather than that of a senju's
 

Sherlock.

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Re: [Theory] Something That Kishi Sama Foreshadowed In Chapter 624

Well done bro u are are the first one iin th world to get compliment from me
Wow good theory.it does make sense to me.
quite plausible.nice theory again
hmm interesting theory...
Wow! Very nice theory, if its true then then it shows why Madara later goes on a rampage, because hashirama obviously doesn't kill himself or his brother...

Thanks Guys.... :D :D
 

Orochimagus

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Re: [Theory] Something That Kishi Sama Foreshadowed In Chapter 624

Seems legit.
 

Sherlock.

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Re: [Theory] Something That Kishi Sama Foreshadowed In Chapter 624

interesting ^_^ add the Uchiha pride as a factor, Izuna would have wanted to die in the hands of his brother rather than that of a senju's

Yup.... Its rite.... :D :D
 

AGoodBoy

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nice theory. I made a little theory about how the flashback would go down, and that hashi would try to kill tobirama(possibly himself as someone made me think) and madara stops him.
 

bigfatloser

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I disagree with a few of your points:

You say the Uchiha were losing because of Madaras ineffective leadership. I think it's more likely they were simply outclassed.

Once Izuna gave Madara his eyes and died, Madara felt compelled to continue the fight even though it was hopeless. This is because it was Izuna's final wish to Madara, in giving Madara his own eyes he was saying 'never give up the fight'

Madara was testing Hashi, I agree with that. I think it was more of a question of, 'If you give up that what you personally hold more dear to anything for the greater good, I can trust you.' It was about Hashi showing that his own personal interests would not get in the way of peace. And what would be more in his interest then staying alive or keeping his brother alive? I don't know if Madara was being serious in his suggestion for Hashi to kill himself though, Hashirama was Madaras closest ally in the senju and Tobirama would be much more likely to betray Madara.

I think it's also fair to say the Madara wanted Hashi to pay the same price he did, like you said. Or at least consider the price Madara had paid before trying to create peace.

HOWEVER
If Madara did kill Izuna, it was at Izuna's request. Madara would never kill one of his brothers. You post 'And even most of The Uchiha Clan members wanted peace now except maybe Izuna.... So Madara killed Izuna...' I don't think Madara killed Izuna to create peace, I think Izuna had Madara kill him to create war (if Madara really did kill izuna)
 

Bogard

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Hmm interesting. Possible really. Nice thread :)
 

Sherlock.

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I disagree with a few of your points:

You say the Uchiha were losing because of Madaras ineffective leadership. I think it's more likely they were simply outclassed.
Once Izuna gave Madara his eyes and died, Madara felt compelled to continue the fight even though it was hopeless. This is because it was Izuna's final wish to Madara, in giving Madara his own eyes he was saying 'never give up the fight'

Bro.... I think if all those years after the SO6P's death The Senju and Uchiha were almost at par then during Hashi and Madara's era they lost due to Madara's ineffective leadership.... Also if we say that the Uchiha were "outclassed"(Outclassed is a strong word showing a huge gap between both parties) then the Senju would have wiped them off years ago.... :D :D

Madara was testing Hashi, I agree with that. I think it was more of a question of, 'If you give up that what you personally hold more dear to anything for the greater good, I can trust you.' It was about Hashi showing that his own personal interests would not get in the way of peace. And what would be more in his interest then staying alive or keeping his brother alive? I don't know if Madara was being serious in his suggestion for Hashi to kill himself though, Hashirama was Madaras closest ally in the senju and Tobirama would be much more likely to betray Madara.

I think it's also fair to say the Madara wanted Hashi to pay the same price he did, like you said. Or at least consider the price Madara had paid before trying to create peace.

Agreed.... :D :D

HOWEVER
If Madara did kill Izuna, it was at Izuna's request. Madara would never kill one of his brothers. You post 'And even most of The Uchiha Clan members wanted peace now except maybe Izuna.... So Madara killed Izuna...' I don't think Madara killed Izuna to create peace, I think Izuna had Madara kill him to create war (if Madara really did kill izuna)

I said so cause I feel Kishi Sama gave us those hints and I have put those in my theory too... :D :D
 

bigfatloser

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Remember, the senju did not have the wood element on their side until Hashirama showed up, as far as we know. If they had been equal for generations, and then one side got a power-up, it's logical to think that over time the other side would eventually lose.
 

Sherlock.

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Remember, the senju did not have the wood element on their side until Hashirama showed up, as far as we know. If they had been equal for generations, and then one side got a power-up, it's logical to think that over time the other side would eventually lose.

Yeah we might as well look it from the angle that Hashirama being a boss made the difference.... :D :D
Still I would like to believe that Madara's being torn between Hashi and Izuna affected his decision making as a leader and so The Uchiha started losing more and more.... :D :D
 

~Zonta~

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Great theory but one thing is confusing me since Madara said that he don't want his brother to die so it doesn't seems the case for me here.

Madara loved his brother and Izuna's death fueled his anger and hatred towards senju's which made Madara what he is now IMO. But you might as well be right here and anything is possible in Naruto
 
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