ItachiStyle
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How to properly rank Naruto characters – common mistakes and pitfalls
I’ve noticed a lot of people making rankings that just don’t hold up to logical scrutiny. For that reason, I’ve made this thread, which contains my list, how I’ve made it, and the sorts of factors that go into making lists as I see them, along with the more common pitfalls I see people making. As people make criticisms/observations, I will edit this opening post as required to answer them.
What is your top 20 list?
How do we rank reputation v.s feats?
Common Pitfall #1- Techniques like Koto/Edo Tensei make you invincible!
People seem to think Shi Sui’s genjutsu (Koto) or Kabuto/Oro’s Edo Tensei makes them invincible. They don’t, for several reasons.
Why Koto is overrated
Why Edo Tensei is overrated
Common Pitfall #2- Overrating characters like the 3rd Hokage, Hanzo, White Fang, Tsunade, Kakuzu and Hidan
Common Pitfall #3- Granting characters abilities/summons/peaks that either never existed all at the one time, or which they cannot do without outside help
Underrated techniques
A number of techniques seem to get seriously underrated by people on these boards
1. Jinton
2. The 2nd Mizukage’s clam illusion
3. Ameratasu
4. Kamui
5. Nagato’s Gravity Techs and Soul Dragon
I’ve noticed a lot of people making rankings that just don’t hold up to logical scrutiny. For that reason, I’ve made this thread, which contains my list, how I’ve made it, and the sorts of factors that go into making lists as I see them, along with the more common pitfalls I see people making. As people make criticisms/observations, I will edit this opening post as required to answer them.
What is your top 20 list?
I have basically 5 tiers, and within those tiers there is some mobility (though I like my ranking in general).
Tier 1- The Sage of the 6 Paths
Tier 2- Hashirama and Madara
Tier 3
I think Itachi in his healthy prime is a pretty firm 4. The guy has too many one shot abilities (Ameratasu, his genjutsu, Totsuka blade, Shi Sui’s eye, Izanami, etc), to go along with a number of abilities that make him very, very tough to beat- he’s one of the fastest characters (especially as seal speed), he has the sharingan to predict and see people’s movements (making him even faster), he has Susanoo to protect him (not to mention the Yata Mirror, one of the few hard counters to crazy techs like Jinton and Gravity blasts), and he’s portrayed as perhaps the best analytical ninja in the manga, so much so that it’s portrayed as him being virtually a prescient (he can hit blind spots that he literally shouldn’t be able to know are there, he knows what Kabuto will do even when all his senses are down, he is capable of planning elaborate contingencies years in advance). All this makes him absurdly formidable. The other rank in here I assume I’ll get some criticism for is Tobirama, because obviously we’re going off rep a lot, not hard feats. However so far apparently he’s so strong he can override the edo tensei (if not for Oro’s power up), something neither Minato or Hiruzen could do, and something none of the other resurrected Kage (nor Nagato or Itachi) were able to do when Edo’d. That and other circumstantial evidence is suggestive of a guy who is very, very powerful. I’ll wait and see, but for the moment I’m willing to speculate on him being in the top 10.
4. Itachi
5. Obito
6. Naruto
7. Nagato
8. Tobirama
9. Minato
10. Sasuke
Tier 4- Oro, Kabuto, Danzo, Shi Sui, Izuna
This is the tier I use to put guys who are potentially awesome, but have something holding them back. Oro and Kabuto have Edo Tensei, but see my discussion on this below. It’s an overrated and limited ability. Danzo and Shi Sui have a one shot ability (which Shi Sui can use at least twice per fight), but some draw backs too (like what can they do beyond that… in Shi Sui’s case we don’t know enough, and while Danzo has Izanagi, he doesn’t do enough to put himself into the third tier). There are also counters to Koto (see below). Izuna was assumedly awesome in order to be “exactly equal in every way” to MS Madara, but otherwise we know too little about him to put him any higher at this point.
Tier 5- Muu, The 2nd Mizukage, Kakashi, Killer Bee as a fully realised host, and maybe guys like Onoki, Jiraiya, Gaara, etc, as this tier is a lot more murky)
Tier 1- The Sage of the 6 Paths
Tier 2- Hashirama and Madara
Tier 3
I think Itachi in his healthy prime is a pretty firm 4. The guy has too many one shot abilities (Ameratasu, his genjutsu, Totsuka blade, Shi Sui’s eye, Izanami, etc), to go along with a number of abilities that make him very, very tough to beat- he’s one of the fastest characters (especially as seal speed), he has the sharingan to predict and see people’s movements (making him even faster), he has Susanoo to protect him (not to mention the Yata Mirror, one of the few hard counters to crazy techs like Jinton and Gravity blasts), and he’s portrayed as perhaps the best analytical ninja in the manga, so much so that it’s portrayed as him being virtually a prescient (he can hit blind spots that he literally shouldn’t be able to know are there, he knows what Kabuto will do even when all his senses are down, he is capable of planning elaborate contingencies years in advance). All this makes him absurdly formidable. The other rank in here I assume I’ll get some criticism for is Tobirama, because obviously we’re going off rep a lot, not hard feats. However so far apparently he’s so strong he can override the edo tensei (if not for Oro’s power up), something neither Minato or Hiruzen could do, and something none of the other resurrected Kage (nor Nagato or Itachi) were able to do when Edo’d. That and other circumstantial evidence is suggestive of a guy who is very, very powerful. I’ll wait and see, but for the moment I’m willing to speculate on him being in the top 10.
4. Itachi
5. Obito
6. Naruto
7. Nagato
8. Tobirama
9. Minato
10. Sasuke
Tier 4- Oro, Kabuto, Danzo, Shi Sui, Izuna
This is the tier I use to put guys who are potentially awesome, but have something holding them back. Oro and Kabuto have Edo Tensei, but see my discussion on this below. It’s an overrated and limited ability. Danzo and Shi Sui have a one shot ability (which Shi Sui can use at least twice per fight), but some draw backs too (like what can they do beyond that… in Shi Sui’s case we don’t know enough, and while Danzo has Izanagi, he doesn’t do enough to put himself into the third tier). There are also counters to Koto (see below). Izuna was assumedly awesome in order to be “exactly equal in every way” to MS Madara, but otherwise we know too little about him to put him any higher at this point.
Tier 5- Muu, The 2nd Mizukage, Kakashi, Killer Bee as a fully realised host, and maybe guys like Onoki, Jiraiya, Gaara, etc, as this tier is a lot more murky)
How do we rank reputation v.s feats?
Naruto is obviously a problematic manga, in that a lot of guys we still don’t know enough about. I certainly don’t think someone should be all rep (unless that rep is ironclad, like with the Sage), however rep can be an important aspect of ranking people. What posters need to make sure their doing before they rely on rep though is:
1)Look at the credentials of the person hyping them (e.g. is it Madara or Itachi telling us this, or is it some fodder nin like Iruka?)
2)Make sure the hype is consistent, both with other hype, and then with how the character is generally portrayed
3)Apply context to the hype. Maybe Kishi once intended that hype seriously, but his subsequent feats make it clear it’s not valid anymore.
4)Rank feats above hype. So if Hanzo has good (but vague) hype, but terrible feats that tell us he didn’t deserve his hype, go off the feats as the better measure.
5)Disregard the databooks and anime, as they are riddled with inconsistency, and Kishi probably has no more than input into them.
6)Remember that the manga is full of hyperbolic remarks that turned out to be wrong, or errors (not all of which were later corrected). Haku’s jutsu was not really “unstoppable” for instance.
1)Look at the credentials of the person hyping them (e.g. is it Madara or Itachi telling us this, or is it some fodder nin like Iruka?)
2)Make sure the hype is consistent, both with other hype, and then with how the character is generally portrayed
3)Apply context to the hype. Maybe Kishi once intended that hype seriously, but his subsequent feats make it clear it’s not valid anymore.
4)Rank feats above hype. So if Hanzo has good (but vague) hype, but terrible feats that tell us he didn’t deserve his hype, go off the feats as the better measure.
5)Disregard the databooks and anime, as they are riddled with inconsistency, and Kishi probably has no more than input into them.
6)Remember that the manga is full of hyperbolic remarks that turned out to be wrong, or errors (not all of which were later corrected). Haku’s jutsu was not really “unstoppable” for instance.
Common Pitfall #1- Techniques like Koto/Edo Tensei make you invincible!
People seem to think Shi Sui’s genjutsu (Koto) or Kabuto/Oro’s Edo Tensei makes them invincible. They don’t, for several reasons.
Why Koto is overrated
1) The No Limit Fallacy
The "no limit fallacy" protects people like the Sage of the 6 Paths, and works something like this. It's like me saying "Joey the mutant in X-men can turn a person into a table... so he can beat Galactus by turning him into a table". It doesn't work like that. Joey has to have demonstrated he can turn someone as powerful as Galactus into a table, or he encounters the no limit fallacy. The Sage is depicted as a god like being, able to create the tailed beasts and the moon, to serve as host of the 10 tails, etc, etc. Koto has never shown it can affect anyone that powerful, so we can't grant it that sort of ability. I’d say there are 3-4 people who Koto fails the no feat limit with; The Sage, Hashirama and Madara, and maybe Tobirama. The first 3 are all depicted in a class way beyond normal shinobi, in particular Hashirama & Madara can apparently override a jutsu that otherwise binds you absolutely (with almost no exceptions, even when you are vastly stronger than the person who summoned you), in Hashi’s case he can do it even against a more powerful summoner (Oro). Tobirama also shows the ability to override Edo Tensei (or he could, until Oro got a power up from Hashi’s cells, meaning he could have overridden Kabuto’s Edo Tensei, which nobody else could, barring Madara and Hanzo for about 5 seconds before Kabuto had a chance to strengthen the Edo Tensei).
2) There are many ways to counter Koto
-Firstly, people can fake out Koto by substituting with a clone. That wastes the single use of Koto, much like when Itachi wasted his genjutsu on one of Kakashi's clones. People who know it's coming, like Itachi, and who are faster than Danzo, might be able to sub out/or mass clone before he can use it, and then he's got one shot, which he likely blows. Remember, the sharingan can't spot clones (and while Madara seems to be able to, Danzo's sharingan and others have not). Itachi also has long range genjutsu.
-Secondly, characters who are faster with one shot techs might be able to take him out first (Ameratasu, Kamui, etc).
-Thirdly, hosts have partners who can snap them out of it, and since the Genjutsu only affects one of them we have no reason to believe Koto will work on them for long. It sure didn't take long for them to snap Mifune out of it (and he certainly wasn't like "me, under genjutsu, ridiculous!")
-Fourthly, characters who have a specific jutsu blocking tech/method. Rinnegan sucks up any jutsu, so in theory if you knew it was coming, and were fast enough, you could suck it up... but probably this wouldn't help. The Yata Mirror is supposed to block anything, I'm not sure I'd grant that Koto can just circumvent it, and Itachi or Shi Sui should be able to counter (because they have the same tech), so for instance Itachi can program the eye to come out and counter it when it senses Shi Sui's genjutsu, or Shi Sui can just counter use it).
So while it is indeed very tough, it's not unbeatable. Danzo also needs to be able to see his foe to use it, he can't just do it from miles away, so an opponent able to block his line of sight can stall it too (say by vanishing underground, or throwing a huge earth wall in front and dodging). Of course, they'd have to be appreciably faster than him (and know it's coming), and then be able to fight without being near him... all big asks... but some characters could do it.
The "no limit fallacy" protects people like the Sage of the 6 Paths, and works something like this. It's like me saying "Joey the mutant in X-men can turn a person into a table... so he can beat Galactus by turning him into a table". It doesn't work like that. Joey has to have demonstrated he can turn someone as powerful as Galactus into a table, or he encounters the no limit fallacy. The Sage is depicted as a god like being, able to create the tailed beasts and the moon, to serve as host of the 10 tails, etc, etc. Koto has never shown it can affect anyone that powerful, so we can't grant it that sort of ability. I’d say there are 3-4 people who Koto fails the no feat limit with; The Sage, Hashirama and Madara, and maybe Tobirama. The first 3 are all depicted in a class way beyond normal shinobi, in particular Hashirama & Madara can apparently override a jutsu that otherwise binds you absolutely (with almost no exceptions, even when you are vastly stronger than the person who summoned you), in Hashi’s case he can do it even against a more powerful summoner (Oro). Tobirama also shows the ability to override Edo Tensei (or he could, until Oro got a power up from Hashi’s cells, meaning he could have overridden Kabuto’s Edo Tensei, which nobody else could, barring Madara and Hanzo for about 5 seconds before Kabuto had a chance to strengthen the Edo Tensei).
2) There are many ways to counter Koto
-Firstly, people can fake out Koto by substituting with a clone. That wastes the single use of Koto, much like when Itachi wasted his genjutsu on one of Kakashi's clones. People who know it's coming, like Itachi, and who are faster than Danzo, might be able to sub out/or mass clone before he can use it, and then he's got one shot, which he likely blows. Remember, the sharingan can't spot clones (and while Madara seems to be able to, Danzo's sharingan and others have not). Itachi also has long range genjutsu.
-Secondly, characters who are faster with one shot techs might be able to take him out first (Ameratasu, Kamui, etc).
-Thirdly, hosts have partners who can snap them out of it, and since the Genjutsu only affects one of them we have no reason to believe Koto will work on them for long. It sure didn't take long for them to snap Mifune out of it (and he certainly wasn't like "me, under genjutsu, ridiculous!")
-Fourthly, characters who have a specific jutsu blocking tech/method. Rinnegan sucks up any jutsu, so in theory if you knew it was coming, and were fast enough, you could suck it up... but probably this wouldn't help. The Yata Mirror is supposed to block anything, I'm not sure I'd grant that Koto can just circumvent it, and Itachi or Shi Sui should be able to counter (because they have the same tech), so for instance Itachi can program the eye to come out and counter it when it senses Shi Sui's genjutsu, or Shi Sui can just counter use it).
So while it is indeed very tough, it's not unbeatable. Danzo also needs to be able to see his foe to use it, he can't just do it from miles away, so an opponent able to block his line of sight can stall it too (say by vanishing underground, or throwing a huge earth wall in front and dodging). Of course, they'd have to be appreciably faster than him (and know it's coming), and then be able to fight without being near him... all big asks... but some characters could do it.
Why Edo Tensei is overrated
I see a lot of people ranking Kabuto as the 2nd strongest character. This is annoying, as Kabuto doesn’t even belong in the top 10 characters. Edo Tensei is an awesome ability, but if Kabuto is turned to dust before he can use it (or right after using it, and his summons keep on fighting) is anyone really calling it a victory for Kabuto (who is now dead)? I'm not. There are plenty of guys who could own Kabuto, even in the manga the only reason Itachi and Sasuke don't one shot him is that they're trying to take him alive. Otherwise they kill him the second the fight begins. For instance, let's say he starts the fight against Mu, and his first move is to try to burrow underground to hide. Mu just senses him out with his sensor powers, aims a dust tech at him, and vaporises him right through the ground he's hiding under. End fight. Jinton also goes right through any coffins in the way. Guys like Itachi, Kakashi, Shi Sui, Sasuke, Danzo, etc, can all one shot Kabuto before he has a chance to do anything. Pretty much everyone ranked over Kabuto can counter Edo Tensei in fact, and some ranked below him too. Some important limitations on Edo Tensei include:
1)Edo Tensei’s best summons (Madara, Hashirama and depending on the summoner Tobirama can all override it, making it useless to summon them in a bloodlusted fight where their goals do not exactly overlap with yours; they may also just kill you after).
2)Edo Tensei is slower than Dojutsu, Jinton, etc. Jinton requires shape formation, but no seals, and is generally very fast in practise, while Dojutsu is even faster (you just look at them). Edo Tensei requires 4 seals, a hand clap and then the coffins pop out, but the summons are not ready and need tags. Even in the event of the summons being ready, they still have to get out of their coffins, and by that point Kabuto could be dead).
3)I see a lot of people say “Kabuto will have his edo’s prepped” or “Kabuto can escape and then use it”. Firstly, Kabuto cannot “escape” from characters faster than him, especially those who can copy his escape techs and follow him/kill him in the process, and/or predict his movements (like Sharingan users), and his Sage Mode requires time to prep, making it useless in conventional fights. Secondly, why is Kabuto allowed prep, while his opponents get none? By that logic Shikamaru or Itachi will have used their genius to come up with an elaborate plan to beat Kabuto, perhaps involving an assassin stepping out of the shadows to kill Kabuto, or some such. In that sense Kabuto’s Edo Tensei is similar to Reed Richards in battles. With lots of prep, Reed Richards is able to defeat far stronger foes… however without it he’s hopelessly outmatched. More discussion about this in a v.s Itachi context can be found here:
4)Edo Tensei can possibly be cancelled via a contract seal (like Minato managed).
5)When Oro uses it he seems to sometimes need his hands to reinforce/control his summons, meaning he can’t also use jutsu at the same time.
1)Edo Tensei’s best summons (Madara, Hashirama and depending on the summoner Tobirama can all override it, making it useless to summon them in a bloodlusted fight where their goals do not exactly overlap with yours; they may also just kill you after).
2)Edo Tensei is slower than Dojutsu, Jinton, etc. Jinton requires shape formation, but no seals, and is generally very fast in practise, while Dojutsu is even faster (you just look at them). Edo Tensei requires 4 seals, a hand clap and then the coffins pop out, but the summons are not ready and need tags. Even in the event of the summons being ready, they still have to get out of their coffins, and by that point Kabuto could be dead).
3)I see a lot of people say “Kabuto will have his edo’s prepped” or “Kabuto can escape and then use it”. Firstly, Kabuto cannot “escape” from characters faster than him, especially those who can copy his escape techs and follow him/kill him in the process, and/or predict his movements (like Sharingan users), and his Sage Mode requires time to prep, making it useless in conventional fights. Secondly, why is Kabuto allowed prep, while his opponents get none? By that logic Shikamaru or Itachi will have used their genius to come up with an elaborate plan to beat Kabuto, perhaps involving an assassin stepping out of the shadows to kill Kabuto, or some such. In that sense Kabuto’s Edo Tensei is similar to Reed Richards in battles. With lots of prep, Reed Richards is able to defeat far stronger foes… however without it he’s hopelessly outmatched. More discussion about this in a v.s Itachi context can be found here:
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4)Edo Tensei can possibly be cancelled via a contract seal (like Minato managed).
5)When Oro uses it he seems to sometimes need his hands to reinforce/control his summons, meaning he can’t also use jutsu at the same time.
Common Pitfall #2- Overrating characters like the 3rd Hokage, Hanzo, White Fang, Tsunade, Kakuzu and Hidan
My thoughts on Hiruzen and Hanzo can be found here:
As for the others, they get overrated for a variety of reasons. For White Fang all we have to go on is Minato telling us that he had “comparable fame” to the Sannin. Being famous isn’t the same as being strong, so it tells us virtually nothing about White Fang’s actual abilities. Worse, at the time White Fang was alive, the Sannin were nowhere near their full power. Oro hadn’t absorbed multiple people and added their power to his own, become immortal, developed Edo Tensei, etc, etc. Tsunade hadn’t invented her regen techs (which were something Oro and Jiraiya didn’t know about, because she’s invented them while being away), and Jiraiya probably didn’t even have Sage Mode, and couldn’t have learn the Rasengan yet as Minato had not invented it (and if we go off the anime, which we rarely should, his summons weren’t as big yet). So even a literal comparison to the Sannin would give us little reason to think too much of White Fang.
Hidan and Kakuzu are basically gimmick characters, who were a novelty when they turned up, and are otherwise pretty ordinary. They constantly got tagged by fodders, and have negligible fighting skills which makes Hidan’s go to ability useless (since he can’t cut people who outclass him as ninja). Kakuzu is relatively strong, but gets massively overrated on these boards (see this thread for an in depth analysis of some of the anti-Kakuzu arguments:
By and large Tsunade gets underrated a lot, and as the above link should make clear I give her due props, but there is a small but vocal fanbase of Tsunade supporters who think she is somehow equal to Oro and Jiraiya, and make absurd claims about her abilities. I’ve seen people claim that Tsunade literally cannot die in battle, or that she is immune to genjutsu, claims that are comprehensively shot down in one thread, only to be made all over again in the next thread. We get it, Tsunade is hot… please limit your fandom to admiring her looks, and not insisting she can somehow beat people far stronger than her.
For an explanation of why she is not immune to genjutsu, see here:
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and
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As for the others, they get overrated for a variety of reasons. For White Fang all we have to go on is Minato telling us that he had “comparable fame” to the Sannin. Being famous isn’t the same as being strong, so it tells us virtually nothing about White Fang’s actual abilities. Worse, at the time White Fang was alive, the Sannin were nowhere near their full power. Oro hadn’t absorbed multiple people and added their power to his own, become immortal, developed Edo Tensei, etc, etc. Tsunade hadn’t invented her regen techs (which were something Oro and Jiraiya didn’t know about, because she’s invented them while being away), and Jiraiya probably didn’t even have Sage Mode, and couldn’t have learn the Rasengan yet as Minato had not invented it (and if we go off the anime, which we rarely should, his summons weren’t as big yet). So even a literal comparison to the Sannin would give us little reason to think too much of White Fang.
Hidan and Kakuzu are basically gimmick characters, who were a novelty when they turned up, and are otherwise pretty ordinary. They constantly got tagged by fodders, and have negligible fighting skills which makes Hidan’s go to ability useless (since he can’t cut people who outclass him as ninja). Kakuzu is relatively strong, but gets massively overrated on these boards (see this thread for an in depth analysis of some of the anti-Kakuzu arguments:
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).By and large Tsunade gets underrated a lot, and as the above link should make clear I give her due props, but there is a small but vocal fanbase of Tsunade supporters who think she is somehow equal to Oro and Jiraiya, and make absurd claims about her abilities. I’ve seen people claim that Tsunade literally cannot die in battle, or that she is immune to genjutsu, claims that are comprehensively shot down in one thread, only to be made all over again in the next thread. We get it, Tsunade is hot… please limit your fandom to admiring her looks, and not insisting she can somehow beat people far stronger than her.
For an explanation of why she is not immune to genjutsu, see here:
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Common Pitfall #3- Granting characters abilities/summons/peaks that either never existed all at the one time, or which they cannot do without outside help
I often see people talk about "prime Nagato with the use of his legs" (a character who never existed), or "Obito with his 6 paths" (which he can't summon without Kabuto). If a character can't summon something under his own power, then he doesn't get it. If he can't control it (like Edo Madara/Hashi and maybe Tobirama, then he doesn't get that either). Nor does the Raikage get the amber pot, which we never saw as an item ordinarily in his possession. This goes double for the Gold and Silver bros, who get the other 5 treasures, but never showed they had meaningful possession of the Amber Pot, which for all we know was stolen back from them ten seconds after they tried to take it.
Underrated techniques
A number of techniques seem to get seriously underrated by people on these boards
1. Jinton
I’ve seen Jinton called “slow” (despite requiring no seals), when in practise it is quite fast. It is slower than Dojutsu, or certain KG’s and non-seal techs, but basically we’ve seen it pulled off very quickly. Dust techs have very few hard counters, can atomise everything in their path (which is substantial), and allow for multiple uses by the user. It’s a very tough tech to stop, which is why the 2 Shinobi who can pull it off need more cred. Check out the range and usage in some of these scans:
and this
Crazy.
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and this
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Crazy.
2. The 2nd Mizukage’s clam illusion
I posted this on another thread, it’s basically an analysis of the abilities of his go to ability, his clam genjutsu:
It's a genjutsu all right, but there are different sorts of genjutsu. Not all of them have to be ones where your mind is trapped in an illusion. As far as we're told, Mizukage summons a clam which churns out mist across a large, battlefield sized area. The Mizukage can then use this mist to create a series of "mirages", where he alters the perceptions of his victims. This primarily consists of creating illusions of himself, which are not real, and hiding his location. Good things about his illusions:
- The area they cover is huge. Big enough to hide effortlessly from the better part of a division of shinobi who are searching for you (and who specialise in long range attacks, since it was the 4th Division), and with every division consisting of thousands of shinobi that's not a trivial thing. Half the 4th Division had split off by this point, but we're still talking about a number in the thousands. During the genjutsu we see troops in the distance on mountain like rock pillars who are unable to find him, and thus within the range of the genjutsu. When the genjutsu is broken, we see a the cloud of smoke in the distance, behind several rock pillars, so it doesn't even seem like he needs line of sight for the genjutsu to work. This makes it probably the 2nd most long range genjutsu we've seen, behind Itachi of course.
- It's apparently so confusing, thousands of shinobi looking for him can't find him, even with him giving them clues, and telling them about the genjutsu and how to end it.
- The Genjutsu does not require the victims to see or hear something for it to work. It just affects everyone in the (very large) area of effect.
- The Genjutsu cannot be seen through by sensor Shinobi (sensors can locate him after, but were unable to before)
- The Genjutsu does not appear to require any significant effort, and can be kept up for a lengthy period of time
- The Mizukage is somehow able to kill large numbers of enemies trapped in the genjutsu, despite being nowhere near their position. It is unclear if they die because the genjutsu makes them believe he's attacked them, whether the Mizukage can somehow attack them remotely, or he makes the victims attack each other (when they think they're attacking him). It's probably at least partially long distance attacks, because the Mizukage was nowhere near Gaara and had no line of sight, yet was able to use his oily water to stop his sand (and after the genjutsu vanished, the damage caused by the water remained). However there is no sign of the Mizukage needing to attack his earlier foes in order to damage them (the anime attributes this to him using a bubble tech, but whatever).
- The Clam seems able to move position, as it plainly wasn't in the original place he used it, though it's not clear if he moves the clam somehow (using water?), or the clam just moves on its own.
The downside is that he can be physically located by sensor sand, and assumedly seen through by the sharingan, as the ability to see different chakra colours should enable them to see through the genjutsu (just like the sharingan seems to allow the user to get out of pretty much any genjutsu/see through any trick that others cannot).
It's a genjutsu all right, but there are different sorts of genjutsu. Not all of them have to be ones where your mind is trapped in an illusion. As far as we're told, Mizukage summons a clam which churns out mist across a large, battlefield sized area. The Mizukage can then use this mist to create a series of "mirages", where he alters the perceptions of his victims. This primarily consists of creating illusions of himself, which are not real, and hiding his location. Good things about his illusions:
- The area they cover is huge. Big enough to hide effortlessly from the better part of a division of shinobi who are searching for you (and who specialise in long range attacks, since it was the 4th Division), and with every division consisting of thousands of shinobi that's not a trivial thing. Half the 4th Division had split off by this point, but we're still talking about a number in the thousands. During the genjutsu we see troops in the distance on mountain like rock pillars who are unable to find him, and thus within the range of the genjutsu. When the genjutsu is broken, we see a the cloud of smoke in the distance, behind several rock pillars, so it doesn't even seem like he needs line of sight for the genjutsu to work. This makes it probably the 2nd most long range genjutsu we've seen, behind Itachi of course.
- It's apparently so confusing, thousands of shinobi looking for him can't find him, even with him giving them clues, and telling them about the genjutsu and how to end it.
- The Genjutsu does not require the victims to see or hear something for it to work. It just affects everyone in the (very large) area of effect.
- The Genjutsu cannot be seen through by sensor Shinobi (sensors can locate him after, but were unable to before)
- The Genjutsu does not appear to require any significant effort, and can be kept up for a lengthy period of time
- The Mizukage is somehow able to kill large numbers of enemies trapped in the genjutsu, despite being nowhere near their position. It is unclear if they die because the genjutsu makes them believe he's attacked them, whether the Mizukage can somehow attack them remotely, or he makes the victims attack each other (when they think they're attacking him). It's probably at least partially long distance attacks, because the Mizukage was nowhere near Gaara and had no line of sight, yet was able to use his oily water to stop his sand (and after the genjutsu vanished, the damage caused by the water remained). However there is no sign of the Mizukage needing to attack his earlier foes in order to damage them (the anime attributes this to him using a bubble tech, but whatever).
- The Clam seems able to move position, as it plainly wasn't in the original place he used it, though it's not clear if he moves the clam somehow (using water?), or the clam just moves on its own.
The downside is that he can be physically located by sensor sand, and assumedly seen through by the sharingan, as the ability to see different chakra colours should enable them to see through the genjutsu (just like the sharingan seems to allow the user to get out of pretty much any genjutsu/see through any trick that others cannot).
3. Ameratasu
Ameratasu should not be based on low end feats (where the user often wasn’t serious), but on high end ones. And high end Ameratasu is crazy, and almost without fail a one shot kill. It requires no real prep, no seals, and is exceedingly fast. While some characters can indeed counter it, it’s up in the Kamui/Koto levels of cheapness. I hear a lot of people tell me “Kabuto will just body shed out of it”. Kabuto will not be body shedding out of an inferno that looks like this, and if he does, his new body will catch fire too as he crawls out (which since the flames are inextinguishable, means he dies)
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4. Kamui
While people respect (and even overrate) Obito’s Kamui, Kakashi’s version gets ridiculously underrated by people. Kakashi’s Kamui was once a slow and inaccurate tech with moderate range and bad recovery. This is no longer the case. Kakashi’s Kamui has gotten to the point where:
-It can work 5 times a day without the 9 Tails Chakra (and in spite of many chakra draining techs also being used that day)
-It can be used almost instantly (so fast Obito and Pein didn’t notice it)
-It has incredible accuracy and size, it can intercept something as small as a nail in full flight (as vast speed), or as big as the head of the Gedo Statue (or Sasuke’s arrows, or Deidara’s explosion)
-It doesn’t even need a great line of sight. Kakashi was able to intercept a rocket with an erratic trajectory from hundreds and hundreds of meters away, at great speed, and barely able to even see the target.
-As a dojutsu, it obviously requires no seals, etc. Kakashi just needs to look at you.
-NB; and remember, Kakashi doesn’t just have Kamui… he has the sharingan, which lets him predict other people’s movements and react to their speed. So for instance in a fight with A he should stomp him no problems. Sasuke can not only dodge the Raikage, but he manages a full on counter attack, using the sharingan. Kakashi doesn’t even need to do that much, he just needs to follow A’s movements enough to be able to Kamui him in mid move… based on what Kakashi has done with Kamui thus far, that’s pretty simple. Guys like A also need to power up before getting full speed.
Now of course, most people ranked above Kakashi can counter it. Some are faster, some have their own one shot moves they can counter with, some have their own space time techs they can counter with, and others might be able to claim the no feat limit (see above), however a lot of characters are completely boned by this tech. Kakashi is a borderline Kage level character as it is… Kamui cements him as a higher level Kage character.
-It can work 5 times a day without the 9 Tails Chakra (and in spite of many chakra draining techs also being used that day)
-It can be used almost instantly (so fast Obito and Pein didn’t notice it)
-It has incredible accuracy and size, it can intercept something as small as a nail in full flight (as vast speed), or as big as the head of the Gedo Statue (or Sasuke’s arrows, or Deidara’s explosion)
-It doesn’t even need a great line of sight. Kakashi was able to intercept a rocket with an erratic trajectory from hundreds and hundreds of meters away, at great speed, and barely able to even see the target.
-As a dojutsu, it obviously requires no seals, etc. Kakashi just needs to look at you.
-NB; and remember, Kakashi doesn’t just have Kamui… he has the sharingan, which lets him predict other people’s movements and react to their speed. So for instance in a fight with A he should stomp him no problems. Sasuke can not only dodge the Raikage, but he manages a full on counter attack, using the sharingan. Kakashi doesn’t even need to do that much, he just needs to follow A’s movements enough to be able to Kamui him in mid move… based on what Kakashi has done with Kamui thus far, that’s pretty simple. Guys like A also need to power up before getting full speed.
Now of course, most people ranked above Kakashi can counter it. Some are faster, some have their own one shot moves they can counter with, some have their own space time techs they can counter with, and others might be able to claim the no feat limit (see above), however a lot of characters are completely boned by this tech. Kakashi is a borderline Kage level character as it is… Kamui cements him as a higher level Kage character.
5. Nagato’s Gravity Techs and Soul Dragon
These also require virtually no seals/motions, no real prep, and at the upper end can destroy a village, or decimate an even bigger area with Chibaka Tensei. I hear a lot of people say “such and such is more mobile than Nagato, or such and such survived the village busting tech” so they could beat Nagato. My response is “how will their mobility help them when in the opening instant the fight takes place, he hits them with an omnidirectional gravity tech of that scale?” It won’t, unless they’ve got a heck of a counter of their own. Nobody was near the epicentre of the village busting tech, God Pein was hundreds of meters above the village when he used it. Start a fight from 30 feet away and most of the villagers would have been turned to paste from this tech. He also gets a soul dragon that is a one shot kill (even against edo’s). Good luck with that.
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