[VS] (Owarij) vs (DrProof) Kakuzu vs Sasori Debate!

[DrProof]

Kakuzu vs Sasori


This will be a debate against DrProof, and Owarij, Kakuzu will be represented by yours truly (DrProof) while as Sasori will be represented by the Legendary Owarij.

Location:
Gaara vs Kimimaro

Intel:
Manga Knowledge

Rules

• Manga Proof Only
• Must Not Double-Post
• Do not post, If You Aren't A Judge

Owarij you may have the first move.


Judges

• Varrah
• -6 Paths-
• Negative Knight
• Douryoku(back up judge)
• EliteKakashi(back up judge)

​

 

[Owarij]

You make the first move, and put in details like location, manga knowledge i'd guess etc

 

[DrProof]

You make the first move, and put in details like location, manga knowledge i'd guess etc

I didn't think the rest mattered. But I'll do the latter.

Also, how about we get someone to decide the first move. I hate going first.

 

[Owarij]

Intel:
Everything about each other

Argghh, dont do that, make it manga knowledge

 

[Owarij]

Sound good, but only if Owarij agrees.

What's the difference?

Full knowledge implies they know everything about each other

Manga knowledge means they know only what we are aware they know..


Introductory Argument
-
It is without a doubt that Sasori in this Scenario is the underdog character. Not only at first glance does it seem as he has no way of winning , but he's constantly severely underrated due to his loss against the Sakura and Chiyo Combination.

Kakuzu is a skilled fighter, who has lived for many decades and because of that would have alot of experience in fighting all sorts of ninja...Unfortunately, If we were to examine their intelligence, we need not go to the manga to see that Sasori surpasses him in this aspect.. Character Databook 3 has given Kakuzu an point score of 4.5 while Sasori received a full 5. It is clear Sasori is better man in terms of Analytic intelligence...He was able to quickly deduce and determine strengths and weaknesses of opponents and those who stood before him..

When it comes to knowledge of each other, As far as we know they no nothing about each other really.. Sasori himself was stated to be very secritive to people around him... Kabuto , his own spy had never even seen his real face... However, on the other hand, Kakuzu and Hidan are well known as the immortal team.. the akatsuki members would also know of him simply because as Pein said, he has killed every one of his previous partners....Adding this to the fact that pein holds a meeting to tell everyone of fellow akatsuki member deaths and show his respects, he would have become a fairly famous topic... Now , do note I am not insinuating that Sasori knows any of his abilities.


Hiruko -
I really don't believe this puppet would be much of a problem for someone of Kakuzu's level... he has great strength, and similar to Sakura should be able to destroy the contraption by utilizing his Doton Domu technique.. In my opinion once this is out of the way , the real fight would begin as Sasori would bring out the Third kazekage... Note that at this point it is possible Kakuzu still think Sasori is dead, Just as Sakura did..


With the Third kazekage out, Sasori would now take to releasing Producing iron sand by utilizing the third's kekke genkai.. The sand throughout this fight will be paramount in not only proving as a an excellent offence (Considered sunagakures most dangerous weapon) as well as a excellent defense

When it comes to Sasori , the databook makes a few things clear.. One, when it comes to iron sand.. It can become any shape the user wishes, Based on the situation at hand....

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Using this weapon, against an opponent, Creativity is your greatest tool... And in the hands Of Sasori..A genius ninja that takes pride in his creative nature it is even more deadlier than ever..

Kakuzu will come at Sasori with many powerful ninjutsu, unfortunately all will need only defend himself by covering himself in iron sand to render the attacks useless... Similar to how gaara or any kazekage would fight . The databook also shows that Sasori's preferred fighting style is one that puts him out of danger...

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Meaning sand defense and even taking to an aerial state by simply jumping on an iron sand block, would be methods of fighting that he has no problem doing..

With Sasori entering an aerial state, considering they are in an opening field instead of an enclosed cave... Kakuzu would have to then resort to resort to releasing his hearts to attack.... With a mixture of proper defense along with almost undogeable attacks such as Iron Sand showe and iron sand new world.. which use the magnetism kekke genkai to greatly increase their speed

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Sasori would target the things attacking him.. with these very needles.. and as the databook said.. the direction of it even after shot out can be controlled by the magnetism.

We should also not forget, that once a magnetism release jutsu even rubs against the opponent, they are then magnetised and it makes it then impossible to dodge future attacks of the same nature



Simply an introductory argument, not posting everything, your turn

 

[DrProof]

Full knowledge implies they know everything about each other

Manga knowledge means they know only what we are aware they know..

Alright, ready when you are.

neither of them mean nothing special to me

Ahh I see.. Still, needs his approval as well.

 

[DrProof]

Judges

• Varrah
• -6 Paths-
• Negative Knight

 

[Edo Odin]

Note from the judges:

Just to keep it interesting, and to make sure that this won't drag out to long, we feel that there should be a certain time-limit on how long the debate can go at most.

So, let's say, that if in three days, neither has given up, the match will end, and the judges will make their decision, as I don't really see either contestant changing his mind after such a long time.

So, DrProof, Owarij, any objections ? Agree/disagree ?

 

[Owarij]

Agreed

 

[DrProof]

Spoiler

Full knowledge implies they know everything about each other

Manga knowledge means they know only what we are aware they know..


Introductory Argument
-
It is without a doubt that Sasori in this Scenario is the underdog character. Not only at first glance does it seem as he has no way of winning , but he's constantly severely underrated due to his loss against the Sakura and Chiyo Combination.

Kakuzu is a skilled fighter, who has lived for many decades and because of that would have alot of experience in fighting all sorts of ninja...Unfortunately, If we were to examine their intelligence, we need not go to the manga to see that Sasori surpasses him in this aspect.. Character Databook 3 has given Kakuzu an point score of 4.5 while Sasori received a full 5. It is clear Sasori is better man in terms of Analytic intelligence...He was able to quickly deduce and determine strengths and weaknesses of opponents and those who stood before him..

When it comes to knowledge of each other, As far as we know they no nothing about each other really.. Sasori himself was stated to be very secritive to people around him... Kabuto , his own spy had never even seen his real face... However, on the other hand, Kakuzu and Hidan are well known as the immortal team.. the akatsuki members would also know of him simply because as Pein said, he has killed every one of his previous partners....Adding this to the fact that pein holds a meeting to tell everyone of fellow akatsuki member deaths and show his respects, he would have become a fairly famous topic... Now , do note I am not insinuating that Sasori knows any of his abilities.


Hiruko -
I really don't believe this puppet would be much of a problem for someone of Kakuzu's level... he has great strength, and similar to Sakura should be able to destroy the contraption by utilizing his Doton Domu technique.. In my opinion once this is out of the way , the real fight would begin as Sasori would bring out the Third kazekage... Note that at this point it is possible Kakuzu still think Sasori is dead, Just as Sakura did..


With the Third kazekage out, Sasori would now take to releasing Producing iron sand by utilizing the third's kekke genkai.. The sand throughout this fight will be paramount in not only proving as a an excellent offence (Considered sunagakures most dangerous weapon) as well as a excellent defense

When it comes to Sasori , the databook makes a few things clear.. One, when it comes to iron sand.. It can become any shape the user wishes, Based on the situation at hand....

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Using this weapon, against an opponent, Creativity is your greatest tool... And in the hands Of Sasori..A genius ninja that takes pride in his creative nature it is even more deadlier than ever..

Kakuzu will come at Sasori with many powerful ninjutsu, unfortunately all will need only defend himself by covering himself in iron sand to render the attacks useless... Similar to how gaara or any kazekage would fight . The databook also shows that Sasori's preferred fighting style is one that puts him out of danger...

You must be registered for see images

Meaning sand defense and even taking to an aerial state by simply jumping on an iron sand block, would be methods of fighting that he has no problem doing..

With Sasori entering an aerial state, considering they are in an opening field instead of an enclosed cave... Kakuzu would have to then resort to resort to releasing his hearts to attack.... With a mixture of proper defense along with almost undogeable attacks such as Iron Sand showe and iron sand new world.. which use the magnetism kekke genkai to greatly increase their speed

You must be registered for see images

Sasori would target the things attacking him.. with these very needles.. and as the databook said.. the direction of it even after shot out can be controlled by the magnetism.

We should also not forget, that once a magnetism release jutsu even rubs against the opponent, they are then magnetised and it makes it then impossible to dodge future attacks of the same nature



Simply an introductory argument, not posting everything, your turn

Countering Hiruko


As you've already stated Kakuzu breaking Hiruko is nothing short of easy as seen his physical attack power has shown him to perform a feat such as this

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Thanks for making that easy, and able to move on quicker than I imagined when relating to his main defensive/offensive puppet.


Countering Iron Sand Fully


Now lets not completely delude ourselves on how powerful Sasori's Iron Sand is.. However you must realize in front of Kakuzu this ability is rather useless. Why exactly? Well this is rather simple, Kakuzu possess a technique that hasn't been broken by any means except lightning release, because Raiton>Doton however the fact Sasori hasn't shown to possess Raiton is a bigger favor as to why Kakuzu defeats Iron Sand.

Earth Release: Iron Spear, this is the resolution to Iron Sand completely. Kakuzu is able to materialize his Doton chakra into every area on his body, and make its structure as hard a diamond that being said here are some scans approving my statement. This one shows Kakuzu is able to materialize not only his arm, but other parts as well..

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Here it shows the latter as well..

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The only real weakness of Kakuzu's Doton Spear is the inability to move, however inactivating the jutsu would diminish these flaws obviously, enabling Kakuzu to go head on with Sasori with no problem..

Spoiler

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This also concludes that Sasori's poison as not being able to pierce/scratch Kakuzu due to his Earth Release: Doton Spear wouldn't be affective.

 

[DrProof]

Note from the judges:

Just to keep it interesting, and to make sure that this won't drag out to long, we feel that there should be a certain time-limit on how long the debate can go at most.

So, let's say, that if in three days, neither has given up, the match will end, and the judges will make their decision, as I don't really see either contestant changing his mind after such a long time.

So, DrProof, Owarij, any objections ? Agree/disagree ?

Agreed.

 

[Owarij]

Countering Hiruko


As you've already stated Kakuzu breaking Hiruko is nothing short of easy as seen his physical attack power has shown him to perform a feat such as this

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Thanks for making that easy, and able to move on quicker than I imagined when relating to his main defensive/offensive puppet.


Countering Iron Sand Fully


Now lets not completely delude ourselves on how powerful Sasori's Iron Sand is.. However you must realize in front of Kakuzu this ability is rather useless. Why exactly? Well this is rather simple, Kakuzu possess a technique that hasn't been broken by any means except lightning release, because Raiton>Doton however the fact Sasori hasn't shown to possess Raiton is a bigger favor as to why Kakuzu defeats Iron Sand.

Earth Release: Iron Spear, this is the resolution to Iron Sand completely. Kakuzu is able to materialize his Doton chakra into every area on his body, and make its structure as hard a diamond that being said here are some scans approving my statement. This one shows Kakuzu is able to materialize not only his arm, but other parts as well..

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Here it shows the latter as well..

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The only real weakness of Kakuzu's Doton Spear is the inability to move, however inactivating the jutsu would diminish these flaws obviously, enabling Kakuzu to go head on with Sasori with no problem..

Spoiler

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This also concludes that Sasori's poison as not being able to pierce/scratch Kakuzu due to his Earth Release: Doton Spear wouldn't be affective.

It is true that Iron sand may not be able to pierce Kakuzu's doton domu defence.. But lets not fail to see the bigger picture.. As I said, Kakuzu would be forced to releasing his hearts to engage in combat... He would normally leave his doton heart inside of him and let out the fuuton,katon,raiton ones to engage in combination ninjutsu... Using Iron sand and considering these hearts haven't shown the speed feats that suggests they are capable of out maneuvering magnet release propelled Iron sand nor has it shown reflexes capable of dodging attacks propelled at jet speeds... Taking out the hearts one by one wouldn't be much of a problem.. especially when he's being protected by the sand as well ...and to put the cheery on top , he has a body that would reform from its scattered pieces once broken apart .....

Now If Gaara's normal chakra enhanced defense Is almost absolute and even withstood the slashes of 4+ susannos at the same time, I can only imagine how hard it would be to crack the barrier of something even much more harder/denser due to not only being chakra enhanced but made from a material stronger than the ordinary sand in itself..

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So to conclude that argument, you mistake something.. Iron sand not being able to pierce kakuzu's skin doesn't mean he defeats it.. as he has also has shown nothing that would defeat Iron sand, the two abilities simply stalemate each other...But as i'll cover, the sheer versatility of using sand in combat will be his downfall..

The biggest flaw, as you very well said of doton domu, is his inability to move the part hardened.... By that logic, if he protects himself from an Iron sand world , he'd require covering his entire body , thus becoming completely immobile... This still does not shake off the effect that once a tool imbued with magnetism release even rubs against you, you then become "magnetised" making future attacks even easier to land..
The actual biggest flaw here is that Kakuzu's best defence is his blocking.. and blocking doesn't work on iron sand... Once he does block the attack of any large scale iron sand formation
(this is assuming after he has dealt with the nusiance of aerial hearts)

Sasori, after analyzing Kakuzu's ability would obviously realize that solid direct attacks would not work since his skin is capable of "tanking" the damage... Instead, he would try another approach. One covered in a field of iron sand... Sasori would need only to let it cling onto Kakuzu, similar to how Gold Sand or Gaara's normal sand can.
What i'm referring to is an approach like

Spoiler

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Note that kakuzu's method of defending would make him immobile.. if he releases this doton domu on his hands/legs, he makes himself vulnerable to being punctured by the sand....Once in place like this
He would use the only other option he had.. If physical attacks don't work against Kakuzu, Material attacks might

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Spoiler

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As you see, He has already tried that Restrain + Gas method.. Note that taking One breath would render kakuzu immobile, unable to use jutsu

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So kakuzu would find himself in a situation where he's defending by using Doton domu... But is also Incapable of moving due to its weakness... That weakness would be exploited to get him in an unfavorable situation where if he released doton he gets punctured and if he doesn't he dies from inhaling poison

In a situation like this, all Kakuzu has left is his Earth Grudge threads.. But unfortunately, they are just as the name suggests.. threads... he won't be able to get loose of the iron sand holding him unless he has some unseen ability to suck chakra like Madara...

 

[DrProof]

Spoiler

It is true that Iron sand may not be able to pierce Kakuzu's doton domu defence.. But lets not fail to see the bigger picture.. As I said, Kakuzu would be forced to releasing his hearts to engage in combat... He would normally leave his doton heart inside of him and let out the fuuton,katon,raiton ones to engage in combination ninjutsu... Using Iron sand and considering these hearts haven't shown the speed feats that suggests they are capable of out maneuvering magnet release propelled Iron sand nor has it shown reflexes capable of dodging attacks propelled at jet speeds... Taking out the hearts one by one wouldn't be much of a problem.. especially when he's being protected by the sand as well ...and to put the cheery on top , he has a body that would reform from its scattered pieces once broken apart .....

Now If Gaara's normal chakra enhanced defense Is almost absolute and even withstood the slashes of 4+ susannos at the same time, I can only imagine how hard it would be to crack the barrier of something even much more harder/denser due to not only being chakra enhanced but made from a material stronger than the ordinary sand in itself..

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So to conclude that argument, you mistake something.. Iron sand not being able to pierce kakuzu's skin doesn't mean he defeats it.. as he has also has shown nothing that would defeat Iron sand, the two abilities simply stalemate each other...But as i'll cover, the sheer versatility of using sand in combat will be his downfall..

The biggest flaw, as you very well said of doton domu, is his inability to move the part hardened.... By that logic, if he protects himself from an Iron sand world , he'd require covering his entire body , thus becoming completely immobile... This still does not shake off the effect that once a tool imbued with magnetism release even rubs against you, you then become "magnetised" making future attacks even easier to land..
The actual biggest flaw here is that Kakuzu's best defence is his blocking.. and blocking doesn't work on iron sand... Once he does block the attack of any large scale iron sand formation
(this is assuming after he has dealt with the nusiance of aerial hearts)

Sasori, after analyzing Kakuzu's ability would obviously realize that solid direct attacks would not work since his skin is capable of "tanking" the damage... Instead, he would try another approach. One covered in a field of iron sand... Sasori would need only to let it cling onto Kakuzu, similar to how Gold Sand or Gaara's normal sand can.
What i'm referring to is an approach like

Spoiler

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Note that kakuzu's method of defending would make him immobile.. if he releases this doton domu on his hands/legs, he makes himself vulnerable to being punctured by the sand....Once in place like this
He would use the only other option he had.. If physical attacks don't work against Kakuzu, Material attacks might

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Spoiler

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As you see, He has already tried that Restrain + Gas method.. Note that taking One breath would render kakuzu immobile, unable to use jutsu

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So kakuzu would find himself in a situation where he's defending by using Doton domu... But is also Incapable of moving due to its weakness... That weakness would be exploited to get him in an unfavorable situation where if he released doton he gets punctured and if he doesn't he dies from inhaling poison

In a situation like this, all Kakuzu has left is his Earth Grudge threads.. But unfortunately, they are just as the name suggests.. threads... he won't be able to get loose of the iron sand holding him unless he has some unseen ability to suck chakra like Madara...

Misunderstanding Kakuzu's Body Structure


It seems you are misunderstanding Kakuzu's body structure, you have stated that Kakuzu would have to release his hearts at the sight of Sasori's Iron Sand which is not true. You see Kakuzu's body structure allows him to rearrange his heart structuring as he pleases as seen here:

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With that being taken into realization we can concur that their is no need for Kakuzu to deploy his mask to go head on with Sasori's Iron Sand.


Misunderstanding Magnet Release


You are also misunderstanding The Third Kazekage's ability with Magnet Release.. You've some how concurred that Sasori with the Third Kazekage's kekkei genkai is able to use the same versatility (even when it hasn't be shown that Sasori can do the same) as to which Toroi did here..

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However it seems you want to go into specifics does it not? Kakuzu hasn't been shown to use metallic tools in the manga, thus this tactic wouldn't work, as the magnetism wouldn't be transferred via kunai to Kakuzu's body.


Kakuzu's Wind Release Repels Iron Sand/Poison


Another thing as to countering Sasori's Iron Sand, along with his material related attacks, Wind Release. Kakuzu's large scale Wind Release techniques will by far repel any attacks thrown at him by Sasori. As seen here Kakuzu's Wind Release devastates a wide range, with immense pressure (hence the name Pressure Damage

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), and as you've stated Iron Sand is as dense as Gaara's sand however it would come down to which technique is/was more dense in this case the most probable would be Kakuzu's Wind Release due to the magnitude being that comparable to a natural disaster..

Thus, repelling Sasori's material based attacks such a poison, or a simple flamethrower would cause no difficulties in the least..

Spoiler

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[Owarij]

Misunderstanding Kakuzu's Body Structure


It seems you are misunderstanding Kakuzu's body structure, you have stated that Kakuzu would have to release his hearts at the sight of Sasori's Iron Sand which is not true. You see Kakuzu's body structure allows him to rearrange his heart structuring as he pleases as seen here:

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With that being taken into realization we can concur that their is no need for Kakuzu to deploy his mask to go head on with Sasori's Iron Sand.


Misunderstanding Magnet Release


You are also misunderstanding The Third Kazekage's ability with Magnet Release.. You've some how concurred that Sasori with the Third Kazekage's kekkei genkai is able to use the same versatility (even when it hasn't be shown that Sasori can do the same) as to which Toroi did here..

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However it seems you want to go into specifics does it not? Kakuzu hasn't been shown to use metallic tools in the manga, thus this tactic wouldn't work, as the magnetism wouldn't be transferred via kunai to Kakuzu's body.


Kakuzu's Wind Release Repels Iron Sand/Poison


Another thing as to countering Sasori's Iron Sand, along with his material related attacks, Wind Release. Kakuzu's large scale Wind Release techniques will by far repel any attacks thrown at him by Sasori. As seen here Kakuzu's Wind Release devastates a wide range, with immense pressure (hence the name Pressure Damage

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), and as you've stated Iron Sand is as dense as Gaara's sand however it would come down to which technique is/was more dense in this case the most probable would be Kakuzu's Wind Release due to the magnitude being that comparable to a natural disaster..

Thus, repelling Sasori's material based attacks such a poison, or a simple flamethrower would cause no difficulties in the least..

Spoiler

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I think you've either linked the wrong scans or failed to see my point.. Once Sasori starts attacking from a distance far in the air simply using combination attacks from the ground up will prove useless as all his ninjutsu attacks are much efficient in short to mid distance ranges..and it loses its zest the longer it travels..
To proper combat the aerial moving target.. Kakuzu's best option would be to let out his puppets to fly up and release consecutive attacks at the puppet master

If he stays on the ground , what method does he have of besting sasori's defence? it would result in both incapable of doing anything to each other... and considering sasori has a higher stamina stat he would just win by just defending from kakuzu's multiple attacks..


As for your part on the Magnet release...It's clear what the ninja said

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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The process doesn't require going from weapon to body... it magnetizes anything it touches

Spoiler

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As four your argument that Kakuzu is keeping his hearts on him, fine. Though you should know his hearts are not capable of using doton domu as they are of a different element...Meaning using a Wild scale iron sand continuously as well as attacking from behind using the grains of iron sand all over could cause damage to a heart.. and since he hearts are attached to him through threads its possible that his entire body gets affected from the poison...


Your counter for the sand grip etc would be that he uses a fuuton? to blow it away? Fine and dandy except he'd be doing damage to himself in the midst of the "natural disaster"
As I said, Nice job countering but as it stands you haven't showed how a kakuzu that remains with masks intact even comes close to hurting Sasori...and as I said, if this ends up like that, Sasori has the higher stamina and the attacks of Kakuzu take and waste more chakra

 

[Orosanagi]

Good explanation.

Sasori got killed by two weaklings then defeated again by Kankuro and sai, not much explanation needed.

 

[DrProof]

Spoiler

I think you've either linked the wrong scans or failed to see my point.. Once Sasori starts attacking from a distance far in the air simply using combination attacks from the ground up will prove useless as all his ninjutsu attacks are much efficient in short to mid distance ranges..and it loses its zest the longer it travels..
To proper combat the aerial moving target.. Kakuzu's best option would be to let out his puppets to fly up and release consecutive attacks at the puppet master

If he stays on the ground , what method does he have of besting sasori's defence? it would result in both incapable of doing anything to each other... and considering sasori has a higher stamina stat he would just win by just defending from kakuzu's multiple attacks..


As for your part on the Magnet release...It's clear what the ninja said

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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The process doesn't require going from weapon to body... it magnetizes anything it touches

Spoiler

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As four your argument that Kakuzu is keeping his hearts on him, fine. Though you should know his hearts are not capable of using doton domu as they are of a different element...Meaning using a Wild scale iron sand continuously as well as attacking from behind using the grains of iron sand all over could cause damage to a heart.. and since he hearts are attached to him through threads its possible that his entire body gets affected from the poison...


Your counter for the sand grip etc would be that he uses a fuuton? to blow it away? Fine and dandy except he'd be doing damage to himself in the midst of the "natural disaster"
As I said, Nice job countering but as it stands you haven't showed how a kakuzu that remains with masks intact even comes close to hurting Sasori...and as I said, if this ends up like that, Sasori has the higher stamina and the attacks of Kakuzu take and waste more chakra

Sasori's Aerial Misconception


This accusation keeps sticking out to me the most in all of your counters, "Sasori gaining distance far in the air".. This is an incorrect statement, as it was never shown in the manga that Sasori could "fly" or "gain distance far in the air" so saying anything relating to such relevance is false, and inaccurate. The "wings" that were located on Sasori's back those were not used for a fly-like maneuver, but for increased shredding capabilities as seen here.

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Also, to furthermore dismiss this "Sasori can fly debut" the rope in which was used to allow him to swiftly glide toward Chiyo in a timely manner hasn't showed the stability, or furthermore has shown any feat of allowing Sasori to obtain flight to that of high ranges. Basically, the rope + wing combo was for decimation at a short-mid range.

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Kakuzu Countering Iron Sand


It's rather simple if you know about the properties of the Iron Sand itself, I didn't want to start out with this counter, but it seems you have pushed me this far..

What is Iron Sand? Iron powder imbued together by the Third Kazekage's magnetic chakra due to his special ability.

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Without the magnetic chakra being applied Iron Sand would ultimately be reduced into Iron powder its alternate form. Why am I exactly stating these facts? Well it's simple to destroy your whole Iron Sand defense.

There are multiple ways in which you can demagnetize a magnetic force, in which Kakuzu possess two: Via heat, and Via shock..

Via Heat: Ferromagnetic materials (Iron Magnets) will lose their magnetism if heated above a point known as the Curie temperature. At this point, the energy being put into the magnet from the heat will permanently disrupt the magnetic domain structure of the material, turning it into a paramagnetic material [a similar effect occurs in materials called hard ferrite, which exhibit a form of magnetism called ferrimagnetism; the analogous temperature for these materials is known as the Neel point].

Via Shock: Only applies to older materials such as magnetic steels and Alnico materials; the mechanism that creates coercivity means that they are susceptible to being demagnetized if enough energy is transmitted through the material.

The above being stated, Sasori's Iron Sand defense would be rendered useless enabling Kakuzu to go for the kill in which Sasori would have no solution; ultimately he would die. Being overpowered by a Fire/Wind combination, and/or a Lightning Release attack.

Kakuzu Covers ALL Ranges


Short-Mid-Long it doesn't matter, Kakuzu covers all ranges which I would believe any avid reader or intelligent member would recognize (which I'm sure you've noticed already) due to his Ninjutsu (Fire/Wind/Lightning), and because of his Village's forbidden technique Earth Grudge Fear. It precisely states here that Kakuzu with his Jiongu could cover any distance.

Spoiler

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That being clarified Kakuzu, would simply (since Sasori is fully countered) have his core torn out of his chest by Kakuzu's invading threads. As seen here Kakuzu, is fully capable of injecting his threads into an opponents chest tearing out their inner organs.

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However if you don't want to subject to the "Kakuzu's thread invade Sasori's body, and take his core" I can always try the elemental combination between Katon/Fuuton/Raiton would annihilate his body. After all Sasori is just decomposed wood.

Kakuzu's Katon


Kakuzu's fire release is devastating enough to destroy a wind range of area, along with it being a ground based technique Sasori being defenseless, and in range would be subjected to a fiery anguish in the end due to this not being a physical technique, his mechanical structure would be incinerated; fire>wood (Sasori is a puppet meaning he is technically dead wood). Let's also not forget about the combination related attack between wind, and fire Kakashi with a Water-based attack wasn't able to put out the fire.

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Kakuzu's Fuuton


Kakuzu's wind release is that nothing of impressive. The pressure (hence it's name) would surely rip Sasori's feeble body to shreds, along with his core as well. Due to the density, and tornado like force exhibited from the use of this technique there are no doubts of this techniques position in this battle match-up..

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Kakuzu's Raiton


Kakuzu's raiton release is by far his fastest Ninjutsu that he possess out of the four (Earth/Wind/Fire/Lightning) in which he can deploy vs an opponent regardless of the range his opponent seems to be. This has a high ratio of killing an opponent, but also due to Sasori's puppet properties (being made of wood) the lightning would cause a fire, due to the heat that's being released from the jutsu. It is also seen that Kakuzu's Raiton is able to strike multiple enemies.

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[Owarij]

Sasori's Aerial Misconception


This accusation keeps sticking out to me the most in all of your counters, "Sasori gaining distance far in the air".. This is an incorrect statement, as it was never shown in the manga that Sasori could "fly" or "gain distance far in the air" so saying anything relating to such relevance is false, and inaccurate. The "wings" that were located on Sasori's back those were not used for a fly-like maneuver, but for increased shredding capabilities as seen here.

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Also, to furthermore dismiss this "Sasori can fly debut" the rope in which was used to allow him to swiftly glide toward Chiyo in a timely manner hasn't showed the stability, or furthermore has shown any feat of allowing Sasori to obtain flight to that of high ranges. Basically, the rope + wing combo was for decimation at a short-mid range.

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Kakuzu Countering Iron Sand


It's rather simple if you know about the properties of the Iron Sand itself, I didn't want to start out with this counter, but it seems you have pushed me this far..

What is Iron Sand? Iron powder imbued together by the Third Kazekage's magnetic chakra due to his special ability.

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Without the magnetic chakra being applied Iron Sand would ultimately be reduced into Iron powder its alternate form. Why am I exactly stating these facts? Well it's simple to destroy your whole Iron Sand defense.

There are multiple ways in which you can demagnetize a magnetic force, in which Kakuzu possess two: Via heat, and Via shock..

Via Heat: Ferromagnetic materials (Iron Magnets) will lose their magnetism if heated above a point known as the Curie temperature. At this point, the energy being put into the magnet from the heat will permanently disrupt the magnetic domain structure of the material, turning it into a paramagnetic material [a similar effect occurs in materials called hard ferrite, which exhibit a form of magnetism called ferrimagnetism; the analogous temperature for these materials is known as the Neel point].

Via Shock: Only applies to older materials such as magnetic steels and Alnico materials; the mechanism that creates coercivity means that they are susceptible to being demagnetized if enough energy is transmitted through the material.

The above being stated, Sasori's Iron Sand defense would be rendered useless enabling Kakuzu to go for the kill in which Sasori would have no solution; ultimately he would die. Being overpowered by a Fire/Wind combination, and/or a Lightning Release attack.

Kakuzu Covers ALL Ranges


Short-Mid-Long it doesn't matter, Kakuzu covers all ranges which I would believe any avid reader or intelligent member would recognize (which I'm sure you've noticed already) due to his Ninjutsu (Fire/Wind/Lightning), and because of his Village's forbidden technique Earth Grudge Fear. It precisely states here that Kakuzu with his Jiongu could cover any distance.

Spoiler

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That being clarified Kakuzu, would simply (since Sasori is fully countered) have his core torn out of his chest by Kakuzu's invading threads. As seen here Kakuzu, is fully capable of injecting his threads into an opponents chest tearing out their inner organs.

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However if you don't want to subject to the "Kakuzu's thread invade Sasori's body, and take his core" I can always try the elemental combination between Katon/Fuuton/Raiton would annihilate his body. After all Sasori is just decomposed wood.

Kakuzu's Katon


Kakuzu's fire release is devastating enough to destroy a wind range of area, along with it being a ground based technique Sasori being defenseless, and in range would be subjected to a fiery anguish in the end due to this not being a physical technique, his mechanical structure would be incinerated; fire>wood (Sasori is a puppet meaning he is technically dead wood). Let's also not forget about the combination related attack between wind, and fire Kakashi with a Water-based attack wasn't able to put out the fire.

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Spoiler

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Kakuzu's Fuuton


Kakuzu's wind release is that nothing of impressive. The pressure (hence it's name) would surely rip Sasori's feeble body to shreds, along with his core as well. Due to the density, and tornado like force exhibited from the use of this technique there are no doubts of this techniques position in this battle match-up..

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Spoiler

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Kakuzu's Raiton


Kakuzu's raiton release is by far his fastest Ninjutsu that he possess out of the four (Earth/Wind/Fire/Lightning) in which he can deploy vs an opponent regardless of the range his opponent seems to be. This has a high ratio of killing an opponent, but also due to Sasori's puppet properties (being made of wood) the lightning would cause a fire, due to the heat that's being released from the jutsu. It is also seen that Kakuzu's Raiton is able to strike multiple enemies.

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Spoiler

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You seem to be mistaken, I never said Sasori would be capable of flying due to his alterations on his human body...The reason I said he could "fly" was due to the versatility of using Iron sand and the fact that he could easily create blocks of sand or footholds to make himself levitate.



Nice "counters" you posted about magnetism release, But unfortunately they apply strictly to the real world... for one Magnetism release is a avanced chakra nature kkkg, and you are unaware of what chakra combinations makeup this kekke genkai and how the composition would inturn affect any incoming chakra natures... The magnetism release as it's called isn't straightfoward magnetism like in our world... as I said, It's made up of elements, elements that may or may not defend or neutralize katon or raiton.. an argument like what you stated would be like saying Katon would hard counter moukouton since it's wood... we know it's more complicated than that since the wood also consists of the suiton element
You even showed a scan of kakuzu's wind+fire combination... and how kakashi was unable to out the fire with a simple suiton due to it having another element...

You are also unaware of exactly how hot kakuzu's fire is, nor do you know what the curie temerpature for sand Sandaime uses is..., there are many types of iron, each with varying curie temperatures... not only that but you don't know what the effect of being chakra enhanced has to do with iron what so ever.. You also fail to recognize the use of pure sand as a smothering agent that extinguishes flames by cutting off the oxygen needed to fuel it. And lastly, but most importantly , you failed to mention the fact that by surging chakra through the sand, Sasori can literally increase its magnetism

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thus requiring a higher temperature to demagnetize the atoms even if it could...

If you are making a proposition that states Sasori's fire will be demagnetized, you have only posted circumstantial proof without any knowledge what so ever about many key details needed to come to that conclusion.

Ps, he doesn't use "iron powder" but some variation of literal "iron sand"



You need not state the obvious, i'm aware that a jutsu being combined with water and fire will not be able to simply be put out by a suiton ability
I'm aware of all his combination attacks, and unfortunately the ranges listed in the databook (mostly focusing on long range )does not mean that they are capable of reaching any possible range in imagination... as that would be a no limit fallacy as you're insinuating his Jinogu is capable of .... the databook simply states that long range attacks are mostly over 10meters.... Deidara for example takes flight at distances over this height , and Uchiha Sasuke , who has jutsu (katon etc) listed at "all ranges" was incapable of getting him once aerial
Not that it really matters.. without a doubt I know kakuzu would have jutsu, or combination jutsu capable of reaching a decent height.. but like most things, most attacks would lose velocity and efficiency with distance, especially when travelling against gravity



Now we would be back to square one, in which no true counter for iron sand ....Kakuzu's jiongu is just chakra enhanced thread and hasn't shown any feats that put them capable of bursting through iron sand's density..... and iron sand should easily be able to carve through the tentacles , considering the sheer skill of destructive damage it caused to the cave insides on impact

 

[DrProof]

Spoiler

You seem to be mistaken, I never said Sasori would be capable of flying due to his alterations on his human body...The reason I said he could "fly" was due to the versatility of using Iron sand and the fact that he could easily create blocks of sand or footholds to make himself levitate.



Nice "counters" you posted about magnetism release, But unfortunately they apply strictly to the real world... for one Magnetism release is a avanced chakra nature kkkg, and you are unaware of what chakra combinations makeup this kekke genkai and how the composition would inturn affect any incoming chakra natures... The magnetism release as it's called isn't straightfoward magnetism like in our world... as I said, It's made up of elements, elements that may or may not defend or neutralize katon or raiton.. an argument like what you stated would be like saying Katon would hard counter moukouton since it's wood... we know it's more complicated than that since the wood also consists of the suiton element
You even showed a scan of kakuzu's wind+fire combination... and how kakashi was unable to out the fire with a simple suiton due to it having another element...

You are also unaware of exactly how hot kakuzu's fire is, nor do you know what the curie temerpature for sand Sandaime uses is..., there are many types of iron, each with varying curie temperatures... not only that but you don't know what the effect of being chakra enhanced has to do with iron what so ever.. You also fail to recognize the use of pure sand as a smothering agent that extinguishes flames by cutting off the oxygen needed to fuel it. And lastly, but most importantly , you failed to mention the fact that by surging chakra through the sand, Sasori can literally increase its magnetism

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thus requiring a higher temperature to demagnetize the atoms even if it could...

If you are making a proposition that states Sasori's fire will be demagnetized, you have only posted circumstantial proof without any knowledge what so ever about many key details needed to come to that conclusion.

Ps, he doesn't use "iron powder" but some variation of literal "iron sand"



You need not state the obvious, i'm aware that a jutsu being combined with water and fire will not be able to simply be put out by a suiton ability
I'm aware of all his combination attacks, and unfortunately the ranges listed in the databook (mostly focusing on long range )does not mean that they are capable of reaching any possible range in imagination... as that would be a no limit fallacy as you're insinuating his Jinogu is capable of .... the databook simply states that long range attacks are mostly over 10meters.... Deidara for example takes flight at distances over this height , and Uchiha Sasuke , who has jutsu (katon etc) listed at "all ranges" was incapable of getting him once aerial
Not that it really matters.. without a doubt I know kakuzu would have jutsu, or combination jutsu capable of reaching a decent height.. but like most things, most attacks would lose velocity and efficiency with distance, especially when travelling against gravity



Now we would be back to square one, in which no true counter for iron sand ....Kakuzu's jiongu is just chakra enhanced thread and hasn't shown any feats that put them capable of bursting through iron sand's density..... and iron sand should easily be able to carve through the tentacles , considering the sheer skill of destructive damage it caused to the cave insides on impact

Without real life physics where would we be? How could we compare legitimately rather or not an outcome would be poised, or not? We would get no where. It's actually been implied that Kishimoto uses real life physics on multiple occasions as seen here:

Spoiler

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From wiki:

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While as techniques defying the law of physics don't actually contradict this statement as they are "powers" in which are the supernatural etc.. Basically, real life physics apply in Naruto. That being said, the following:

Spoiler

The magnetism release as it's called isn't straightfoward magnetism like in our world... as I said, It's made up of elements, elements that may or may not defend or neutralize katon or raiton.. an argument like what you stated would be like saying Katon would hard counter moukouton since it's wood... we know it's more complicated than that since the wood also consists of the suiton element You even showed a scan of kakuzu's wind+fire combination... and how kakashi was unable to out the fire with a simple suiton due to it having another element... You are also unaware of exactly how hot kakuzu's fire is, nor do you know what the curie temerpature for sand Sandaime uses is..., there are many types of iron, each with varying curie temperatures... not only that but you don't know what the effect of being chakra enhanced has to do with iron what so ever.. You also fail to recognize the use of pure sand as a smothering agent that extinguishes flames by cutting off the oxygen needed to fuel it. And lastly, but most importantly , you failed to mention the fact that by surging chakra through the sand, Sasori can literally increase its magnetism thus requiring a higher temperature to demagnetize the atoms even if it could... If you are making a proposition that states Sasori's fire will be demagnetized, you have only posted circumstantial proof without any knowledge what so ever about many key details needed to come to that conclusion. Ps, he doesn't use "iron powder" but some variation of literal "iron sand"

The above is mostly assumptions, as we can infer due to the databook scan below "reduce to ash" is beyond hot, to which you can't really infer the curie temperature of the Iron Sand due to no exact references about the said topic.

Spoiler

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Also due to the fact some kekkei genkai aren't just made up of simple elemental natures, but possibly Yin/Yang chakra, or possibly just blood related (such as the Kaguya).. That being said the heat/lightning would still destroy the magnetic force, reducing the Iron Sand to plain Iron.

PS: Narutowiki says it's Iron Powder.. Hm..?

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Also link the whole scan of your claim saying that Sasori can imbue more chakra into the Iron Sand to increase it's force, and don't use paint to mark out spots please.​

That being stated, Kakuzu's threads would take out Sasori's core. Thus' Sasori would be dead.

 

[Owarij]

Without real life physics where would we be? How could we compare legitimately rather or not an outcome would be poised, or not? We would get no where. It's actually been implied that Kishimoto uses real life physics on multiple occasions as seen here:

Spoiler

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From wiki:

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While as techniques defying the law of physics don't actually contradict this statement as they are "powers" in which are the supernatural etc.. Basically, real life physics apply in Naruto. That being said, the following:

Spoiler

The magnetism release as it's called isn't straightfoward magnetism like in our world... as I said, It's made up of elements, elements that may or may not defend or neutralize katon or raiton.. an argument like what you stated would be like saying Katon would hard counter moukouton since it's wood... we know it's more complicated than that since the wood also consists of the suiton element You even showed a scan of kakuzu's wind+fire combination... and how kakashi was unable to out the fire with a simple suiton due to it having another element... You are also unaware of exactly how hot kakuzu's fire is, nor do you know what the curie temerpature for sand Sandaime uses is..., there are many types of iron, each with varying curie temperatures... not only that but you don't know what the effect of being chakra enhanced has to do with iron what so ever.. You also fail to recognize the use of pure sand as a smothering agent that extinguishes flames by cutting off the oxygen needed to fuel it. And lastly, but most importantly , you failed to mention the fact that by surging chakra through the sand, Sasori can literally increase its magnetism thus requiring a higher temperature to demagnetize the atoms even if it could... If you are making a proposition that states Sasori's fire will be demagnetized, you have only posted circumstantial proof without any knowledge what so ever about many key details needed to come to that conclusion. Ps, he doesn't use "iron powder" but some variation of literal "iron sand"

The above is mostly assumptions, as we can infer due to the databook scan below "reduce to ash" is beyond hot, to which you can't really infer the curie temperature of the Iron Sand due to no exact references about the said topic.

Spoiler

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Also due to the fact some kekkei genkai aren't just made up of simple elemental natures, but possibly Yin/Yang chakra, or possibly just blood related (such as the Kaguya).. That being said the heat/lightning would still destroy the magnetic force, reducing the Iron Sand to plain Iron.

PS: Narutowiki says it's Iron Powder.. Hm..?

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Also link the whole scan of your claim saying that Sasori can imbue more chakra into the Iron Sand to increase it's force, and don't use paint to mark out spots please.​

That being stated, Kakuzu's threads would take out Sasori's core. Thus' Sasori would be dead.

I'm aware that naruto uses real physics but as I said the magnetism release is more complicated than plain physics....I listed nothing at all that's "speculation" I listed things you didn't cover... "beyond hot" isn't enough to say for sure that it can dematerialize the iron sand, as you don't know exactly what type of iron is used and what its curie point is.. You also don't know what effect chakra has on the curie point nor how sand which is one of the medium affects fire in the first place... (In the real world sand is capable of killing the oxygen for a fire thus extinguishing it.. which is why throwing a bucket of sand on fire is a commonly used technique)

Jiton when translated to english means Magnetism release or magnetism nature, All chakra transformations and advance chakra transformations translate to similar names and every single one have to do with chakra combinations..

Haku's Ice release, wood release etc..

Bloodline kkgs like sharingan or Shikotsumyaku have totally different names .Their translations turn into more literal things.. eg kimaro's when translated is - "Corpse Bone Chain" Sharingan "Copy wheel eye" .this is a theme in the manga..so I don't see how you suggest that magnetism release isn't an elemntal kkg..


I just post the small cut scans to save space in the argument, but if you want the entire argument and to save counters of other things for later posts, but here you go

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Top is where you're looking at in which the databook states the magnetism can be increased at will.. which backs up my original statement in saying, your argument was just circumstantial.. you have no idea of how chakra influences the sand or magnetism, so you can't make an argument simply based on a real world event


Also the databook on practically every page says iron sand, not powder, iron sand is an actual material ...
Once again , how would jinogu do such a thing when Sasori's defence theoretically would be greater than that of Gaara's... his movement in the air when fighting on iron sand footholds would be incredible, faster than gaara's movement, since the databook states he can

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Use repellent property of magnetism to significantly increase his speed... This makes dodging incoming attacks easier and he may not even need to cover himself in a defence

 

[blazekev90]

Who started back up these debate threads?!? Nonetheless, happy to see them back and never would I have thought Sasori would lose to Kakuzu