Kishi made an error with the Rinnegan

[shadedcrow]

There could be many reasons, I doubt its a error. It could be as simple as needing more chakra to revive someone who died further into the past. On top of once someone uses the.rebirth technique they die so nagato uses it dies and madara has the.rinningan transplanted back into him blah blah he goes off and rules the.ninja world or becomes the jinjuriki for the ten tails and casts his genjutsu.

Whoever said Madara was wanting to be revived with edo tensi is wrong. The fact he was is annoying to him now he dosent have the upper hand. He wanted obito to bring him back by nagato rebirth technique.

 

[Honord Sage]

Obito never wanted Madara back He wanted to run the show without Madara,Why do you think He was Mad at Kabuto showing Him Madara? Obito could have trick Nagato long ago into bringing Madara back, Why did He not? Because He never wanted Him back thats why.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Hello, I would like to share my opinion on this topic as well

#1. Kishi didn't make error with Rinne Tensei , I will explain mechanics of Rinne Tensei jutsu's mechanics as I see it.

Assumptions:

1. To use full potential of Rinnengan, you have to have Senjuu and Uchiha DNA in one body.(Madara, Obito)
2. These who does'nt have Senjuu and Uchiha DNA in one body can't use full potential of Rinnengan (Nagato)
========================================================================================

Let's assume:

1. Each day passed from your death is equal to 1 point of chakra.
2. Number points of chakra is equal to number of dead people who you ressurect with Rinne Tensei with one day passed from their death.
3. Each person with one day passed from their death equal is 1 chakra point.

========================================================================================

Formuła of Rinne Tensei: RT= T*N

RT- Rinne Tensei
T- Time passed from death(1 point of chakra=1 day)
N- number of dead people

========================================================================================

Let's Analyze then situation of Nagato

For example Full power Nagato has 300 points of chakra. After using his chakra in fight against Konoha, then Sage mode Naruto, Kyuubi possesed Naruto Nagato was left with around 25 points of chakra.

Now if from everyone's deaths who died, in Konoha passed below than one day.(Let's assume it was 6 hours) ,(6 hours of 24 hours=1 day).

1/4*100=600/24=25

Result is 25 points of chakra costed Nagato to ressurect 100 konoha shinobi with six hours passed from their death.

But because Nagato has 25 chakra points, he died.

========================================================================================

Now let's discuss about Revival of Madara

Let's say Current full power Obito has 200 chakra points, but thanks to Senjuu DNA and Uchiha DNA in one body.

Each dead person with one week passed from their death cost - 1 chakra point. Remember Uchiha clan has powerfull spiritual energy so maybe one point of their chakra is equal to 7 points of normal ninja's chakra .

If from Madara's death passed 20 years., then RT = 1*4*14*20*1= 1120 chakra points

Conclusion: Obito doesn't have enough chakra to Revive Madara...

Madara may have 400 chakra points, but it could be still not enough.

Gyuuki(Hachibi) coul have 400 chakra points at full power, so with Killer Bee(100 chakra points), 400+100=500 chakra points

Let's assume Kurama has 800 chakra points at full power, and current Naruto in Bijuu mode has 600 chakra points(400 half of kurama's + 200 Naruto's), so it still could be not enough to work.

600<1120

Naruto Bijuu mode max potential power has potential to get (800+200 =1000 chakra points), still could be not enough

1000<1120

That's when Juubi come handy

Juubi first form - 800 chakra point

Juubi second form - 1200 chakra points

Juubi last form - infinite chakra points

Obito connected to Juubi could ressurect Madara and probably lives on, but maybe one of mechanic of Rinne Tensei is that you have to have more than enough amount chakra to survive without dying. In other words, Obito could ressurect Madara with external source of chakra(Juubi) but his own ammount of chakra couldn't be enough so he would die after process.

Obito + Juubi second form= 1400 points

Remember that Madara's revival could cost 1120 chakra points to work, so Obito with Juubi second form will have more than enough

1400>1120 (Madara ressurection will work) 200<1120(user of Rinne Tensi will die after process)

========================================================================================

Summary: Number of dead people you want to revive and time passed from death depend on your amount chakra, making revival possible when it is enough and impossible when it is not enough

I hope you get what I tried to explain
I know I used many assumptions, but I tried my best to explain my theory about working of Rinne Tensei.

Nevertheles it could go agree with:

1. Konan's statment in manga about Nagato's amount of chakra not be enough to ressurect them and live on.

2. Nagato's statment that there is still time to ressurect people in Konoha.

3. Madara statment that he could be ressurected with Rinne Tensei.

Do you agree with my theory or not ?

=======================================================================

EDIT:

- Sage of six paths in his prime before Juubi could have 800 chakra points

- Obito or Madara as Jyuubi perfect form jinchurki could ressurect even Sage of six paths(due to Juubi's infinite amount of chakra )

- About Yahiko, it could be tha Nagato wanted to follow his own way to reach peace, or due to Six paths of pain, he modified body of Yahiko, so he couldn't ressurect him even if he has enough amount of chakra.


Let's imagine Sage of six paths COAT + Rinne Tensei= Total ressurection of any number of people

Creation of all things(create you new body), Rinne Tensei(ressurect you to your new body created by COAT)

 

[JIRAIYA perv]

Nagato said "There's still time" because he was dying, but he had enough time left alive to use the jutsu.

Either that, or Madara and Obito weren't aware of the time limit.

this ^

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Obito never wanted Madara back He wanted to run the show without Madara,Why do you think He was Mad at Kabuto showing Him Madara? Obito could have trick Nagato long ago into bringing Madara back, Why did He not? Because He never wanted Him back thats why.

Agreed

 

[Ninja Hidden in the Leafs]

Kishi did not made any error, as he is the story teller.
Only WE, are taking assumption of this Naruto.
In order to understand what Kishi is telling the story, we also need to understand the way he write. Of which many story and/or fiction writer do, certain issue or matter was not told until the it need to be.


"Edo Tensei" vs "Rinne Tensei"

Firstly: These are 2 entirely different meaning of jutsu
"Rinne Tensei" was created by the SO6P as he had it on both eyes.
"Edo Tensei" was created by 2nd Hokage Tobirama. Please take note that this jutsu was finally reveal in the latest chapter where Orochimaru told Tobirama that his jutsu do kill many people.

Second: Rinne Tensei can revived the person and that person's body must be preserve. That could be how Madara had to link.
As for Nagato chakra, any nin just need some time to recover. As Nagato was up to his limit, he revived the Leaf Village people back to Normal Life and he die. Whereas, Tsunade went into coma. Both of their chakra had reached their own limit.

Third: Edo Tensei was revived DEAD person. Think. When a person die, for months and years, their body are just bones.
Now, go back to the current chapter. Orochimaru used 4 bodies, which is zetsu, to become the 4 Hokage. Likewise, whose bodies were Kabuto were using.
This could mean that Kabuto just need any living bodies, and using the soul of the actual person, to make them alive. The bodies were emptiness, as they cannot die. If killed, they re-fix (just like Hidan).
Did you notice that the face of Madara and those 'dead' nin were the same - not smooth. Madara soul...That's why Madara need Obito to be the Jinchuriki of Ten Tails. Like those 6 'dead' Jinchuriki, they are control by Obito....

Fourth: ......
.....to be continue........Thanks for reading..................

Thanks for your theory, I just had a couple of questions though.

with your second part, according to kabuto, all he needed was DNA from the deceased in order to re-animate them. He could've waited until his chakra came back but according to Konan she said "you'll die if you use that jutsu now" meaning that he was at his limit of chakra but he still could live. My theory on Tsunade is that she went into a coma because she was very close of dying because she almost used up all her chakra, if she had it used up than I think she would've died as well.

Your third point, I think your right about using any living as a sacrifice, but Madara wants to become the Jinchuriki because obito said "you need me to revive you with rinne tensei causing me to die" or something like that.

Nagato said that because he was on his deathbed remember? And after he solo'd Konoha? and Naruto? and Kyuubi?

but he wasn't on his deathbed, he was almost out of chakra. If he was going to die what was the point of Konan telling him he would die if he used that jutsu right than because of the lack of chakra.

Not an error, the only reason Madara needed to be resurrected by rinne tensei is because only a live person can become the jinchuriki of a bijuu (the juubi). Madara expected their plan to work perfectly where it was nagato that would resurrect him and not by edo tensei. As it stands now, the only person that can resurrect him is obito, re-read the manga

You don't know what this thread is about lol. Its not how madara was revived, its the fact that nagato said that he still had time to revive the villagers he had killed. Pretty much its "time" related

I think even before betraying them, Nagato had already made own plans. Yes, he collected the tailed beasts but he didn't care about the moonseye plan. He wanted to create peace by using pain and war. The beasts would have been used as a weapon and not to fullfill the moonseye plan. Then he met Naruto and used that jutsu, that he most likely never wanted to use, to help Naruto.

I don't agree with your theory to an extent. I do believe Nagato had other plans, but I don't think his answer was using pain and war. He wanted Peace and was willing to cause others pain to achieve it. But this doesn't answer the thread's point

 

[JDuzumaki92]

The Rinne Tensei probably is dependent on how long someone has been dead.People who've been dead for awhile would require a large amount of chakra compared to someone who just died.

 

[Ninja Hidden in the Leafs]

There could be many reasons, I doubt its a error. It could be as simple as needing more chakra to revive someone who died further into the past. On top of once someone uses the.rebirth technique they die so nagato uses it dies and madara has the.rinningan transplanted back into him blah blah he goes off and rules the.ninja world or becomes the jinjuriki for the ten tails and casts his genjutsu.

Whoever said Madara was wanting to be revived with edo tensi is wrong. The fact he was is annoying to him now he dosent have the upper hand. He wanted obito to bring him back by nagato rebirth technique.

but than why did konan make it seem like if he waited till his chakra recovered he could use the jutsu without dying. madara wanted to be revived by rinne tensei. originally planned for nagato to use, but was instead revived by edo tensei

Obito never wanted Madara back He wanted to run the show without Madara,Why do you think He was Mad at Kabuto showing Him Madara? Obito could have trick Nagato long ago into bringing Madara back, Why did He not? Because He never wanted Him back thats why.

He was mad at kabuto because he revived him with edo tensei which caused a momentary stop to his plans, but he came up with a different plan. Nagato and Obito were on the same side. Nagato worked under Tobi/ Madara- didn't know he was Obito. The rest is just your opinion which you are entitled to but id have to disagree with

Hello, I would like to share my opinion on this topic as well

#1. Kishi didn't make error with Rinne Tensei , I will explain mechanics of Rinne Tensei jutsu's mechanics as I see it.

Assumptions:

1. To use full potential of Rinnengan, you have to have Senjuu and Uchiha DNA in one body.(Madara, Obito)
2. These who does'nt have Senjuu and Uchiha DNA in one body can't use full potential of Rinnengan (Nagato)
========================================================================================

Let's assume:

1. Each day passed from your death is equal to 1 point of chakra.
2. Number points of chakra is equal to number of dead people who you ressurect with Rinne Tensei with one day passed from their death.
3. Each person with one day passed from their death equal is 1 chakra point.

========================================================================================

Formuła of Rinne Tensei: RT= T*N

RT- Rinne Tensei
T- Time passed from death(1 point of chakra=1 day)
N- number of dead people

========================================================================================

Let's Analyze then situation of Nagato

For example Full power Nagato has 300 points of chakra. After using his chakra in fight against Konoha, then Sage mode Naruto, Kyuubi possesed Naruto Nagato was left with around 25 points of chakra.

Now if from everyone's deaths who died, in Konoha passed below than one day.(Let's assume it was 6 hours) ,(6 hours of 24 hours=1 day).

1/4*100=600/24=25

Result is 25 points of chakra costed Nagato to ressurect 100 konoha shinobi with six hours passed from their death.

But because Nagato has 25 chakra points, he died.

========================================================================================

Now let's discuss about Revival of Madara

Let's say Current full power Obito has 200 chakra points, but thanks to Senjuu DNA and Uchiha DNA in one body.

Each dead person with one week passed from their death cost - 1 chakra point. Remember Uchiha clan has powerfull spiritual energy so maybe one point of their chakra is equal to 7 points of normal ninja's chakra .

If from Madara's death passed 20 years., then RT = 1*4*14*20*1= 1120 chakra points

Conclusion: Obito doesn't have enough chakra to Revive Madara...

Madara may have 400 chakra points, but it could be still not enough.

Gyuuki(Hachibi) coul have 400 chakra points at full power, so with Killer Bee(100 chakra points), 400+100=500 chakra points

Let's assume Kurama has 800 chakra points at full power, and current Naruto in Bijuu mode has 600 chakra points(400 half of kurama's + 200 Naruto's), so it still could be not enough to work.

600<1120

Naruto Bijuu mode max potential power has potential to get (800+200 =1000 chakra points), still could be not enough

1000<1120

That's when Juubi come handy

Juubi first form - 800 chakra point

Juubi second form - 1200 chakra points

Juubi last form - infinite chakra points

Obito connected to Juubi could ressurect Madara and probably lives on, but maybe one of mechanic of Rinne Tensei is that you have to have more than enough amount chakra to survive without dying. In other words, Obito could ressurect Madara with external source of chakra(Juubi) but his own ammount of chakra couldn't be enough so he would die after process.

Obito + Juubi second form= 1400 points

Remember that Madara's revival could cost 1120 chakra points to work, so Obito with Juubi second form will have more than enough

1400>1120 (Madara ressurection will work) 200<1120(user of Rinne Tensi will die after process)

========================================================================================

Summary: Number of dead people you want to revive and time passed from death depend on your amount chakra, making revival possible when it is enough and impossible when it is not enough

I hope you get what I tried to explain
I know I used many assumptions, but I tried my best to explain my theory about working of Rinne Tensei.

Nevertheles it could go agree with:

1. Konan's statment in manga about Nagato's amount of chakra not be enough to ressurect them and live on.

2. Nagato's statment that there is still time to ressurect people in Konoha.

3. Madara statment that he could be ressurected with Rinne Tensei.

Do you agree with my theory or not ?

=======================================================================

EDIT:

- Sage of six paths in his prime before Juubi could have 800 chakra points

- Obito or Madara as Jyuubi perfect form jinchurki could ressurect even Sage of six paths(due to Juubi's infinite amount of chakra )

- About Yahiko, it could be tha Nagato wanted to follow his own way to reach peace, or due to Six paths of pain, he modified body of Yahiko, so he couldn't ressurect him even if he has enough amount of chakra.


Let's imagine Sage of six paths COAT + Rinne Tensei= Total ressurection of any number of people

Creation of all things(create you new body), Rinne Tensei(ressurect you to your new body created by COAT)

3 things

1. really nice theory because you have evidence and support to back it up

2. I thought Nagato did have Senju blood that's why he was able to control the Gadou Mazou, without Senju he couldn't have performed the sealing of the tailed beasts

3. How did you come up with the chakra numbers lol

Really nice theory though

 

[Ninja Hidden in the Leafs]

The Rinne Tensei probably is dependent on how long someone has been dead.People who've been dead for awhile would require a large amount of chakra compared to someone who just died.

makes sense

 

[KCMNaruto]

3 things

1. really nice theory because you have evidence and support to back it up

2. I thought Nagato did have Senju blood that's why he was able to control the Gadou Mazou, without Senju he couldn't have performed the sealing of the tailed beasts

3. How did you come up with the chakra numbers lol

Really nice theory though

Thanks a lot for answer

1. yeah I tried my best in this theory to make sense

2. Nagato is Uzumaki , so I think it could be enough, also please consider that Uzumaki are distantly related to Senjuu clan by blood

3. It was Random

I hope you really liked my theory, I wish Kishimoto could read it ,and use it , it could be great praise for me lol

 

[Kurama999]

Thanks for your theory, I just had a couple of questions though.

with your second part, according to kabuto, all he needed was DNA from the deceased in order to re-animate them. He could've waited until his chakra came back but according to Konan she said "you'll die if you use that jutsu now" meaning that he was at his limit of chakra but he still could live. My theory on Tsunade is that she went into a coma because she was very close of dying because she almost used up all her chakra, if she had it used up than I think she would've died as well.

Your third point, I think your right about using any living as a sacrifice, but Madara wants to become the Jinchuriki because obito said "you need me to revive you with rinne tensei causing me to die" or something like that.

Second: Agreed on your point...

Third: Actually Madara want Obito as the 'dead' Jinchuriki. Last time when Naruto meet the other 6 Jinchuriki, they were control by the same method as Nagato. Then Obito were to be like the 6 'dead' Jinchuriki, and Madara controlling him, instead. When Madara fighting the 1st Hokage, he control Kurama by his sharingan eyes..<< same method ?.
Only 8 & 9 tailed beast had being tamed...and happy...

Fourth: Missing puzzle.
Madara wanted Nagato revive him.
But in the start, Obito (with mask) said he was Madara....
So how or what type of story Obito to reason with Nagato who was him?
Also, Kabuto show Obito on Madara body...

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

if it depend on the chakra, then why dont Obito used it to ressurect Rin since this whole war started because Rin died, and then leave Madara good for dead.

The Rinne Tensei jutsu of the Rinnegan was not yet awakened by Nagato at the time of Rin's death, so retrieving the Rinnegan from Nagato would be useless since the Rinnegan still doesn't have RT, hence, Obito cannot revive Rin before with RT even if he wanted to. Now, this is just conjecture in my part, but if we agree that Obito had no intention of reviving Madara but lamented on the fact that Nagato wasted the Rinnegan on the Konoha Villagers, then Obito could have intended to use its' power to revive Rin just before the war started.

 

[UzumakiNIN]

Madara could have been revived because of the fact that a small piece of him was still alive inside of the Black Zetsu. I believe that was the reason he was created. I mean, do any of you guys even LIFT?