Establishing Why K11 > Tsunade

DemonicAvenger

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Ok so a few basic flaws. Choji isn't holding back Katsuyu. If he tries to engage in taijutsu he gets acid to the face. Meanwhile Katsuyu is immune to his physical attacks.
Shino has never been shown using the poisonous insects, we're not sure if he's capable of a technique of that level just yet.
Furthermore, where the idea is to take Tsunade out by working as a team Tsunade, However, fighting as a team with Katsuyu there is no reason Tsunade won't take the win. After she summons Katsuyu , she will target first Sakura as the main medic, then Ino to ensure no healing takes place. After the medics are taken out of commission, the next target Tsunade will go after is Shikamaru. Is kagemane has never been shown to hold someone of great strength and will power which is true of Tsunade. Shikamaru would be hardpressed to deal with Tsunade when she comes his way.
Now wow this is simultaneously happening Katsuyu is holding off the other members of the k11. If a Katsuyu that has divided herself hundreds of times possibly thousands is still big enough to absorb entire adults, that a Katsuyu only divided into 21 would be enough to hold off the k11. So that would mean that each person has a Katsuyu to deal with plus Tsunade still has a katsuyu next to her at all times which means when she takes on a member from the k11 it will be them vs. 2 Large Katsuyu minis and Tsunade.
Now under these conditions the K11 who before outnumbered Tsunade faces a large problem. In fact Ino may very well be taken out by her Katsuyu mini.

Choji can remove Katsuya by BFR, with Butterfly bomb or otherwise. The K11 wont allow her to summon Katsuya a second time.

There are poisonous insect. With Shino's Jutsu he can control them. This isn't even speculation.

So the whole rest of the team will sit by and let her attack Sakura and Ino? especially when they're in the back and Neji, Kiba, and Lee are the main offensive. Tsunade alone is barely able to keep up with Neji, much less Kiba and Lee as well, on top of Dodging Kagemane and ****enshin.


----

On another note, im kinda sad how i work so hard on these threads but never get any rep :c
 
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Tazzilla88

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Choji can remove Katsuya by BFR, with Butterfly bomb or otherwise. The K11 wont allow her to summon Katsuya a second time.

There are poisonous insect. With Shino's Jutsu he can control them. This isn't even speculation.

So the whole rest of the team will sit by and let her attack Sakura and Ino? especially when they're in the back and Neji, Kiba, and Lee are the main offensive. Tsunade alone is barely able to keep up with Neji, much less Kiba and Lee as well, on top of Dodging Kagemane and ****enshin.

There are poisonous insects, that doesn't mean Shino can control them. The ones we've seen him control are not poisonous, we've seen someone else from his clan use poisonous insects but the technique of one person in the clan doesn't mean everyone has that ability. The insects Shino controls live within his body, if he doesn't have poisonous insects he can't use poisonous insects.

Now explain exactly how Choji removes Katsuyu. All here minis, even if he attempts defeating Katsuyu, it would be in vain. As he doesn't actually have something to hurt Katsuyu with.

The whole team won't have much of a choice as there is a Katsuyu towering over them.
Also I will point out that Tsunade is very capable of fast handseals. So stopping her from summoning seems a bit odd.
 

DemonicAvenger

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There are poisonous insects, that doesn't mean Shino can control them. The ones we've seen him control are not poisonous, we've seen someone else from his clan use poisonous insects but the technique of one person in the clan doesn't mean everyone has that ability. The insects Shino controls live within his body, if he doesn't have poisonous insects he can't use poisonous insects.

Now explain exactly how Choji removes Katsuyu. All here minis, even if he attempts defeating Katsuyu, it would be in vain. As he doesn't actually have something to hurt Katsuyu with.

The whole team won't have much of a choice as there is a Katsuyu towering over them.
Also I will point out that Tsunade is very capable of fast handseals. So stopping her from summoning seems a bit odd.

Your trying to bend his abilities in favor of Tsunade. Poisonous insects arnt any diffrent from regular ones in the eyes of Shino.

If Katsuya has split then its only easier to move her. Chōdan Bakugeki would easily remove the small Katsuya's from the battlefield while he's using Chō Baika no Jutsu.

Tsunade doesn't have a single feat of fast handseals. Even then, Sai easily blitzs her before she can do a single thing. Especially with Neji, Kiba, and Lee on top of her, who are all faster than her. While she's constantly being harrased by others

The same thing i've been saying over and over
 

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Oh dear lord, (with a little vibrato to it)
 

fastrthnwind

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Itachi was trashing Sasuke in Taijutsu while he was sick and holding back. There is really no one that is as skilled in Taijutsu as Itachi. (I know from our messages your tired of the Itachi wank, and I agree, but I cant let his abilities be overlooked either)

Handseal speed and Hand speed are one in the same. If he can make multiple complex handseals before a Sharingan can even register it then Punches are no biggie.

It wasn't just a bluff. Even Neji was in marvel at Naruto's hand to hand ability after he got the powerup. their speed was roughly the same, but their strength were on two diffrent levels. Naruto tied Kaiten with Mearly a punch. Neji may have been more "Skilled" but that just goes to show how far Power and Speed can go.

(the bit about the Naruto and his Bunshin also backs up my argument about Sharingan v Byakugan. Sharingan is far superior when it comes to battling one or two very powerful oppenants, while the Byakugan is better at dealing with multiple weaker oppenants)

Thats basically what I meant. Uchihas can defent from a much faster attack when its right in front of them, something on the level that a hyuuga wouldn't. But a Hyuuga can defend from mutliple angles at a level an Uchiha can't.

Sharingan and Byakugan are very similar in terms of eye prowress (excluding MS) simply because Gentle fist isn't exactly part of Byakugans abilities. its something they developed to maximize their use of Byakugan. The same way that Uchiha's learned to copy Ninjutsu, use Sharingan for Genjutsu, and be really haxxed in Taijutsu to maximize their use of Sharingan.

But I guess we can agree to disagree here.

I must still disagree on this point here. Itachi, while highly skilled in all 3 areas of combat, is not the best in taijutsu. It was said that he was considered to be rather advanced in taijutsu when it wasnt his primary form of combat. According to the databooks, Sasuke only had a 3.5 in the manga while itachi had a 4.5, putting him on another level than Sasuke.

That being said, Neji also boasts a 4.5 in taijutsu. The thing is, however, that Neji, having trained his whole life in taijutsu, has much greater experience over Itachi, who typically does not use taijutsu unless his opponent is too nimble for him to put them into a genjutsu off the spot and his ninjutsu wasnt enough of a distraction for him to find an opening. Not only that, but being a prodigy himself, Neji was able to recreate his clans most powerful taijutsu abilities such as 64 palms and kaiten purely through observation and in a relatively short time. Itachi's only true redeeming quality in this area is his speed that sits at a 5, which is only barely higher than Neji's 4.5.

Handseal speed is not the same as handspeeds, or attacking speed. His ability to weave handsigns is a testament to how much time he dedicated to mastering handseals to the point where even the sharingan is unable to see them. Handspeeds, is not just about throwing punches out as fast as possible, its about being able to land an attack on the opponent faster than the opponent is able to react with great accuracy. Anyone could simply throw thier hands out as fast as possible to try to overwhelm their opponent with a barrage of punches, but they key is being able to actually land those hits accuratley enough to do some damage. Itachi is all about being able to move quickly in a fight, so that he can outmanuevre his opponent and ultimately put his opponent into a genjutsu; his super-quick handsigns being crucial to for him to retain the element of surprise.

Neji, on the other hand, has actually trained his body to not only be fast and nimble, but to be able to attack his opponents with a barrage of strikes with pinpoint accuracy (meaning he's not just throwing his arms about hoping to land a hit, but deliberately placing each strike exactly where he intends for it to land) before they can react so that he can do maximum damage to the opponent through his gentle fist. He is also capable to simultaneously attacking and defending himself, which further showcases his taijutsu ability. This is something that Neji has specifically conditioned himself to do when in a taijutsu bout and has repeatedly shown this in practically every fight he has shown.

In conclusion, should Neji and Itachi ever fight in a taijutsu bout, Neji would ultimately win due to his prowess, advanced techniques, and conditioning for said area of combat. Itachi is pretty good himself in taijutsu as well and has his sharingan to help him perceive his opponents next move, but ultimately, he will not be able to land a crucial blow on Neji the way Neji can to Itachi, nor will he be able to outlast him. After all, it only takes one hit for Neji to seriously mess anybody up, meaning the longer that the battle is dragged out, the more it will be in Neji's favor, because he will likely be able to land at least a few crucial blows in a relatively short period of time with his near overwhelming handspeed and his ability to attack and defend at the same time, while Itachi himself lacks a true tide-turning taijutsu ability to make up for his lack of experience in that general field of combat besides his sharingan precog. Itachi will likely be on the defensive the entire time.

Now, there are other people who truly are better in taijutsu than Itachi such as Guy, Lee, Hiashi, Tsunade, and Hiruzen to name a few, just to clarify that Itachi is not the best in the NV at taijutsu. His sharingan is crucial for him to really be able to compete with these high-level taijutsu masters, but without it, he wont be able to match up against most of these people.

Anyways, about Naruto vs Neji, Neji had only marveled at his speed, being able to dodge most of Neji's attacks and being able to keep up with him from a distance. When Naruto and Neji clashed, Neji's Kaiten wasn't actually complete, or at full strength, and I can go into another explanation about it, but I would rather not. In any case, it would not prove your point specifically because of Nejis attitude during that fight. Had he taken Naruto more seriously, he would have won the fight against that one opponent.

At this last point, I guess we can agree to disagree.
 

TheEvilOne

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No matter what proof you have, the kids stands no chance against Tsunade. She is on a completely different level then them.
 

DemonicAvenger

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I must still disagree on this point here. Itachi, while highly skilled in all 3 areas of combat, is not the best in taijutsu. It was said that he was considered to be rather advanced in taijutsu when it wasnt his primary form of combat. According to the databooks, Sasuke only had a 3.5 in the manga while itachi had a 4.5, putting him on another level than Sasuke.

That being said, Neji also boasts a 4.5 in taijutsu. The thing is, however, that Neji, having trained his whole life in taijutsu, has much greater experience over Itachi, who typically does not use taijutsu unless his opponent is too nimble for him to put them into a genjutsu off the spot and his ninjutsu wasnt enough of a distraction for him to find an opening. Not only that, but being a prodigy himself, Neji was able to recreate his clans most powerful taijutsu abilities such as 64 palms and kaiten purely through observation and in a relatively short time. Itachi's only true redeeming quality in this area is his speed that sits at a 5, which is only barely higher than Neji's 4.5.

Handseal speed is not the same as handspeeds, or attacking speed. His ability to weave handsigns is a testament to how much time he dedicated to mastering handseals to the point where even the sharingan is unable to see them. Handspeeds, is not just about throwing punches out as fast as possible, its about being able to land an attack on the opponent faster than the opponent is able to react with great accuracy. Anyone could simply throw thier hands out as fast as possible to try to overwhelm their opponent with a barrage of punches, but they key is being able to actually land those hits accuratley enough to do some damage. Itachi is all about being able to move quickly in a fight, so that he can outmanuevre his opponent and ultimately put his opponent into a genjutsu; his super-quick handsigns being crucial to for him to retain the element of surprise.

Neji, on the other hand, has actually trained his body to not only be fast and nimble, but to be able to attack his opponents with a barrage of strikes with pinpoint accuracy (meaning he's not just throwing his arms about hoping to land a hit, but deliberately placing each strike exactly where he intends for it to land) before they can react so that he can do maximum damage to the opponent through his gentle fist. He is also capable to simultaneously attacking and defending himself, which further showcases his taijutsu ability. This is something that Neji has specifically conditioned himself to do when in a taijutsu bout and has repeatedly shown this in practically every fight he has shown.

In conclusion, should Neji and Itachi ever fight in a taijutsu bout, Neji would ultimately win due to his prowess, advanced techniques, and conditioning for said area of combat. Itachi is pretty good himself in taijutsu as well and has his sharingan to help him perceive his opponents next move, but ultimately, he will not be able to land a crucial blow on Neji the way Neji can to Itachi, nor will he be able to outlast him. After all, it only takes one hit for Neji to seriously mess anybody up, meaning the longer that the battle is dragged out, the more it will be in Neji's favor, because he will likely be able to land at least a few crucial blows in a relatively short period of time with his near overwhelming handspeed and his ability to attack and defend at the same time, while Itachi himself lacks a true tide-turning taijutsu ability to make up for his lack of experience in that general field of combat besides his sharingan precog. Itachi will likely be on the defensive the entire time.

Now, there are other people who truly are better in taijutsu than Itachi such as Guy, Lee, Hiashi, Tsunade, and Hiruzen to name a few, just to clarify that Itachi is not the best in the NV at taijutsu. His sharingan is crucial for him to really be able to compete with these high-level taijutsu masters, but without it, he wont be able to match up against most of these people.

Anyways, about Naruto vs Neji, Neji had only marveled at his speed, being able to dodge most of Neji's attacks and being able to keep up with him from a distance. When Naruto and Neji clashed, Neji's Kaiten wasn't actually complete, or at full strength, and I can go into another explanation about it, but I would rather not. In any case, it would not prove your point specifically because of Nejis attitude during that fight. Had he taken Naruto more seriously, he would have won the fight against that one opponent.

At this last point, I guess we can agree to disagree.

True, But usually I dont take DB Scores into account unless there's nothing else to go on or to reinforce an argument (since they can be so misleading). So I really didn't think to check his score since Sasuke's CQC abilities looked top notch.

I'll have to disagree on that. Neji's fighting style is certainly based around Taijutsu, But hes 4 years younger than Itachi and has been a "Ninja" for 4 Years. While Itachi has been a Ninja for almost 17 years. While that Gives him a monumental amount of overall experience over Neji, and feats show that Taijutsu has been a large part of that.

That doesn't change the fact that they're one in the same. It still shows he can move his hands at insane speeds, this can be applied to a punch, maybe not as much so as a handseal, but still so.

Agreed

Disagreed, I think we're interpretting things diffrently

Gai maybe, but im going to have to disagree with the rest (Hiashi goes without saying since I still believe Itachi to be above Neji), but he's definately above Tsunade in skill without question, Lee as well.

Neji should have been fully taking Naruto Seriously there, the surprise factor should have worn off and he would have been going all out, in an extended fight Naruto had the stamina advantage and a slight speed advantage (distance closing speed, not short burst Taijutsu speed; which was around equal after the 0tk power-up), any way it went the result would have ended up the way it did. (IMO Kishi drew Neji's Kaiten at that instant more for dramatic writing, but thats really not a counter, which if i were trying to do i would say that Naruto would be able to do just as he did in the manga any way it whent. )


BTW: what do you think of the new AVA and Sig? better than the Naruto and Madara one?

No matter what proof you have, the kids stands no chance against Tsunade. She is on a completely different level then them.

So your saying your opinion > proof? That doesn't make much sense.

Btw, Neji, Lee, and Ten-Ten were all about 17-18. Making them Adults.
 
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TheEvilOne

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So your saying your opinion > proof? That doesn't make much sense.
Btw, Neji, Lee, and Ten-Ten were all about 17-18. Making them Adults.

Exactly. Kishi made Tsunade's character too OP. She is a Legendary Sannin, her name is feared and respected all over the Shinobi world. Saying a bunch of chuunins can defeat her, is equal with insulting her character. Even that Katsu-whatever would be a challange to them, let alone the Hokage herself.
And I don't even like her character. I'm an Uchiha fan.
 
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DemonicAvenger

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Exactly. Kishi made Tsunade's character too OP. She is a Legendary Sannin, her name is feared and respected all over the Shinobi world. Saying a bunch of chuunins can defeat her, is equal with insulting her character. Even that Katsu-whatever would be a challange them, let alone the Hokage herself.
And I don't even like her character. I'm an Uchiha fan.

The instant you agreed that your opinion was above proof your argument was null and void. Kakashi's name was more well know than her's, and his father's was equal to all to all the Sanin, but you don't see anyone saying that Sakumo could solo the Sanin.

Hype means nothing in Vs. Threads.

What does being an Uchiha fanboy have to do with anything? Im an Uchiha fanboy as well (but it usually gets overshadowed by my Naruto/Biju/Jinchuriki fanboyism)
 

TheEvilOne

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The instant you agreed that your opinion was above proof your argument was null and void. Kakashi's name was more well know than her's, and his father's was equal to all to all the Sanin, but you don't see anyone saying that Sakumo could solo the Sanin.

Hype means nothing in Vs. Threads.

What does being an Uchiha fanboy have to do with anything? Im an Uchiha fanboy as well (but it usually gets overshadowed by my Naruto/Biju/Jinchuriki fanboyism)

The hype is the part of a manga too, so why shouldn't we take into consideration?
Kakashi's name was more well known than her? Are you kidding me? Tsunade is the woman who created the entire medical- nin system and its laws. And that system is used in every hidden village. And as I remeber ( correct me if I'm wrong ) Jiraiya stated Konoha won the 2nd ( or 3rd? ) shinobi war, because of Tsunade's unrivalled skills as a warrior and a medic
As I remember Kakashi didn't won a war, and he didn't created something like the medical- system.

And I'm an Uchiha fanboy. This means I should underrate and call her fodder. Duh.
 

DemonicAvenger

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The hype is the part of a manga too, so why shouldn't we take into consideration?
Kakashi's name was more well known than her? Are you kidding me? Tsunade is the woman who created the entire medical- nin system and its laws. And that system is used in every hidden village. And as I remeber ( correct me if I'm wrong ) Jiraiya stated Konoha won the 2nd ( or 3rd? ) shinobi war, because of Tsunade's unrivalled skills as a warrior and a medic
As I remember Kakashi didn't won a war, and he didn't created something like the medical- system.

And I'm an Uchiha fanboy. This means I should underrate and call her fodder. Duh.

Everyone that has come into contact with Kakashi has been like "OH **** DAWG KAKASHI NO SHARINGAN!" People barely seem to notice Tsunade. Kakashi on 3 seperate occasions was selected as Hokage Candidate (The elders were even more intent in puting him in as Hokage than Tsunade) She helped win the war by helping train other Ninja's to become medics, by herself she did very little with no implications she did much fighting. Kakashi played a pivotal role in the mission that helped Kono win the third Ninja war.

Kakashi is not only stronger than Tsunade, he has more face value than her.

Nobody should do that anyway. Just because you have a diffrent character prefence doesn't mean whatever your saying is more credible.
 

Gingka Uzumaki

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Did we need a thread for this?

Shino, Kiba stalls her
Sakura cures just in case

Shikamaru used Shadow Jutsu to get her
Ino controls her
Choji squishes her

Her boobs bounces him off and he squishes K11

Tsunade low diff.
 

fastrthnwind

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True, But usually I dont take DB Scores into account unless there's nothing else to go on or to reinforce an argument (since they can be so misleading). So I really didn't think to check his score since Sasuke's CQC abilities looked top notch.

I'll have to disagree on that. Neji's fighting style is certainly based around Taijutsu, But hes 4 years younger than Itachi and has been a "Ninja" for 4 Years. While Itachi has been a Ninja for almost 17 years. While that Gives him a monumental amount of overall experience over Neji, and feats show that Taijutsu has been a large part of that.

That doesn't change the fact that they're one in the same. It still shows he can move his hands at insane speeds, this can be applied to a punch, maybe not as much so as a handseal, but still so.

Agreed

Disagreed, I think we're interpretting things diffrently

Gai maybe, but im going to have to disagree with the rest (Hiashi goes without saying since I still believe Itachi to be above Neji), but he's definately above Tsunade in skill without question, Lee as well.

Neji should have been fully taking Naruto Seriously there, the surprise factor should have worn off and he would have been going all out, in an extended fight Naruto had the stamina advantage and a slight speed advantage (distance closing speed, not short burst Taijutsu speed; which was around equal after the 0tk power-up), any way it went the result would have ended up the way it did. (IMO Kishi drew Neji's Kaiten at that instant more for dramatic writing, but thats really not a counter, which if i were trying to do i would say that Naruto would be able to do just as he did in the manga any way it whent. )


BTW: what do you think of the new AVA and Sig? better than the Naruto and Madara one?



So your saying your opinion > proof? That doesn't make much sense.

Btw, Neji, Lee, and Ten-Ten were all about 17-18. Making them Adults.

The last databook release is accurate up to Itachis death, so it is applicable in this situation.

You forget that each branch member is trained in the gentle fist art when they are very young (examples are Hinata and Hanabi sparring with Hiashi as youths), so its not like Neji only started training once he entered the academy. It was only when he graduated from the academy was he considered a official ninja and part of Konohas military strength.

They arent one and the same. handseal speed is the ability to weave handsigns together at an extremely fast pace. Its not the same as actually throwing a punch at super speed with pinpoint accuracy like Neji does.

You may disagree with the outcome, but in general, I think you are greatly overestimating Itachi's taijutsu in comparison to a Neji, a taijutsu prodigy's taijutsu. It was even mentioned that itachi's best point was not his taijutsu, despite his great skill in it like many other areas, and that genjutsu is his primary form of combat. This means, that even though he is still strong in taijutsu, it is still his weakest area, which is only made up for by his sharingan precog and speed. Neji, on the other hand, has the speed, agility, experience, and advanced taijutsu techniques that will help him win in a taijutsu bout against Itachi(64 palms, rotation, vacuum palm, and one body blow are all considered taijutsu). Itachi wont be able to last out against Neji with those techniques in Neji's arsenal and practically nothing for him to use besides the sharingan to predict Neji's physical moves and his very little stamina. And that's not saying he will defend against every single attack because everyone automatically considers the sharingan to make the user literally invulnerable to any sort of taijutsu which is blatantly incorrect in every way possible.

In case you may not have known, every single character I have listed has a 5 in taijutsu and has been considered to be the greatest taijutsu users in all of Konoha. Itachi is great and all, but when it comes down to actual base taijutsu skill without the sharingan in comparison to everyone else, he pales in comparison to their powerful taijutsu techniques. The only person I mentioned that he has a chance at winning against is Hiruzen because of his lack of speed in comparison to Itachi (He only has a 3 in speed). Even fighting against Tsunade is tantamount to suicide despite her 3.5 in speed because of her legendary physical strength which could kill itachi in one blow, plus she is much older and has much more experience in fighting than Itachi himself and is a master in evasion techniques. Lee, who also has only trained in taijutsu his whole life since it is his only ability and has trained more vigorously than anyone else(probably more than Guy too) every single day in his life as least since he joined the academy, and is capable of opening many of the 8 inner gates, which is considered to be the ultimate taijutsu technique, is not able to best itachi in a pure taijutsu bout? I dont even know what to say to this other than that Lee's taijustu is no doubt superior to itachi in every way and can even move faster than itachi could react with the 8 gates technique.

If one were to put Itachi in a pure taijutsu bout against these people, this is what the result would look like:

Itachi w/o sharingan(base level taijutsu):
Itachi vs Neji - Neji low-mid diff

Itachi vs Lee - Lee low diff

Itachi vs Hiashi - Hiashi low diff

Itachi vs Guy - Guy low diff

Itachi vs Tsunade - Tsunade mid-diff

Itachi vs Hiruzen - Hiruzen high-diff

Itachi w/ sharingan(sharingan-enhanced level taijutsu):
Itachi vs Neji - Neji mid-high diff

Itachi vs Lee - mid diff

Itachi vs Hiashi - Hiashi mid diff

Itachi vs Guy - Guy mid diff

Itachi vs Tsunade - Tsunade high diff

Itachi vs Hiruzen - Hiruzen very high diff/Itachi very high diff

I'm not trying to come off as being rude or anything, but Itachi is not the greatest in everything even with his sharingan. There are even other people who could match and possibly beat him using only taijutsu like Kakashi with his sharingan or Jiraiya in SM. When it comes down to taijutsu, Itachi is outclassed when it comes down to these people.

Neji was still being cocky tiil the very end in that match, which shows that he still did to fully recignize Naurtos power, even after his sudden burst in speed with Kuramas chakra. It is evident when he thinks the match to be over and deactivates his byakugan just before Naruto came back to attack Neji from below, something he would have seen if he had taken Naruto more seriously and made sure that Naruto was actually down instead of assuming that he was still a loser like he usually did. That counter about Katien vs narutos punch cant even be justified simply because Neji is only shown moving his leg a little bit in preparation for a full Kaiten, but not completely to bring out its full power. Everytime the full power of kaiten is shown, the user is shown as a blur inside the dome of chakra, which in that instance, Neji was not.

BTW your sig and avatar is pretty epic. Gotta love Dante from DMC :scorps:
 
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Forbidden Technique

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Ok so a few basic flaws. Choji isn't holding back Katsuyu. If he tries to engage in taijutsu he gets acid to the face. Meanwhile Katsuyu is immune to his physical attacks.
Shino has never been shown using the poisonous insects, we're not sure if he's capable of a technique of that level just yet.
Furthermore, where the idea is to take Tsunade out by working as a team Tsunade, However, fighting as a team with Katsuyu there is no reason Tsunade won't take the win. After she summons Katsuyu , she will target first Sakura as the main medic, then Ino to ensure no healing takes place. After the medics are taken out of commission, the next target Tsunade will go after is Shikamaru. Is kagemane has never been shown to hold someone of great strength and will power which is true of Tsunade. Shikamaru would be hardpressed to deal with Tsunade when she comes his way.
Now wow this is simultaneously happening Katsuyu is holding off the other members of the k11.
If a Katsuyu that has divided herself hundreds of times possibly thousands is still big enough to absorb entire adults, that a Katsuyu only divided into 21 would be enough to hold off the k11. So that would mean that each person has a Katsuyu to deal with plus Tsunade still has a katsuyu next to her at all times which means when she takes on a member from the k11 it will be them vs. 2 Large Katsuyu minis and Tsunade.
Now under these conditions the K11 who before outnumbered Tsunade faces a large problem. In fact Ino may very well be taken out by her Katsuyu mini.

That is all under your far fetch'd made scenario. In order to accomplish what you just said, we would have to assume that most of k11 are not even targeting the biggest threat, which is Tsunade; but instead focusing katsuya, while leaving the 2 medics and shikamaru completely vulnerable to Tsunade. That is just plain ridiculous, as taking down Katsuya doesn't require the majority of them.

In order for Tsunade to get to Sakura and Ino, she would first have to go through Neji and Lee. Both of which, are faster and rival her taijutsu skill. Not to mention, she would have to avoid Shikamarus shadow possession while dealing with Neji and Lee.

As for Kiba, he doesn't even need to aid Neji, Lee, and Shikamaru against Tsunade. He would be a lot more utilized against Katsuya with his Doubled Headed Wolf. BM Choji who can fly above and smash Katsuya, Double Headed Wolf with Fang Wolf Fang, while Sai, Shino, and TenTen attacking her from mid-long range, is more then enough to take care of her.
 

TheEvilOne

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That is all under your far fetch'd made scenario. In order to accomplish what you just said, we would have to assume that most of k11 are not even targeting the biggest threat, which is Tsunade; but instead focusing katsuya, while leaving the 2 medics and shikamaru completely vulnerable to Tsunade. That is just plain ridiculous, as taking down Katsuya doesn't require the majority of them.

In order for Tsunade to get to Sakura and Ino, she would first have to go through Neji and Lee. Both of which, are faster and rival her taijutsu skill. Not to mention, she would have to avoid Shikamarus shadow possession while dealing with Neji and Lee.

As for Kiba, he doesn't even need to aid Neji, Lee, and Shikamaru against Tsunade. He would be a lot more utilized against Katsuya with his Doubled Headed Wolf. BM Choji who can fly above and smash Katsuya, Double Headed Wolf with Fang Wolf Fang, while Sai, Shino, and TenTen attacking her from mid-long range, is more then enough to take care of her.

The bigger threat would be Katsuyu. That slug is basically immortal, the K11 can't kill her. But they don't know this, so obviosuly they would try to kill it first.
And who can protect Shikamaru from a Heavenly Kick of Pain? He isn't fast enough to dodge it. ( In fact Ino, Shikamaru, Shino, Choji, Tenten and Hinata can't dodge it ) Kabuto and Orochimaru barely dodged it, I don't see how can these chuunins do it.
 
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The bigger thread would be Katsuyu. That slug is basically immortal, the K11 can't kill her. But they don't know this, so obviosuly they would try to kill it first.
And who can protect Shikamaru from a Heavenly Kick of Pain? He isn't fast enough to dodge it. ( In fact Ino, Shikamaru, Shino, Choji, Tenten and Hinata can't dodge it ) Kabuto and Orochimaru barely dodged it, I don't see how can these chuunins do it.

Nah, Tsunade is the bigger threat because of her one shot potential. Offensively, Katsuya really isn't a huge threat, though she will in fact be tough to defeat.

Why would Shikamaru need to even dodge anything? He is a mid-range fighter. Explain to me how Tsunade gets passed Neji and Lee, who are faster and arguably a little better, taijutsu wise.

Not to mention, there is a good chance Shikamaru could indeed dodge it, considering he avoided Kakuzus attack.
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Nah, Tsunade is the bigger threat because of her one shot potential. Offensively, Katsuya really isn't a huge threat, though she will in fact be tough to defeat.

Why would Shikamaru need to even dodge anything? He is a mid-range fighter. Explain to me how Tsunade gets passed Neji and Lee, who are faster and arguably a little better, taijutsu wise.

Not to mention, there is a good chance Shikamaru could indeed dodge it, considering he avoided Kakuzus attack.
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Katsuyu can make 11 "clones". And considering the fact 1 minin clone of her was huge enough to cover a human body, 1 "maxi " clone would be enough to overwhelm the slower and weaker members of K11 and slow down the faster ones.

How can she pass Neji and Lee? Easily. She can jump in the air. With chakra control she can jump higher then them. ( she jumped high enough with Gamabunta's sword to blitz and defeat Manda ). She jumps and uses the Heavenly kick of Pain, killing with it half of the K11.
 

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Your trying to bend his abilities in favor of Tsunade. Poisonous insects arnt any diffrent from regular ones in the eyes of Shino.

If Katsuya has split then its only easier to move her. Chōdan Bakugeki would easily remove the small Katsuya's from the battlefield while he's using Chō Baika no Jutsu.

Tsunade doesn't have a single feat of fast handseals. Even then, Sai easily blitzs her before she can do a single thing. Especially with Neji, Kiba, and Lee on top of her, who are all faster than her. While she's constantly being harrased by others

The same thing i've been saying over and over

No fast handseal feats?
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So you seem to think Katsuyu is some pushover. That even Choji can handle but Choji would be completely fodderized by the mini of Katsuyu that I described earlier.
Among Katsyuyu's abilities is the ability to divide into many versions of herself. Her full bodied self is capable of spitting acid so it is logical to assume that her minis could as well. In other words she could surround enemies and perform combination attacks with herself. She could have infinitely many maneuvering options.
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] Or given how Tsunade was able to heal the village through Katsuya and she was going to kill Orochimaru with Medical Ninjutsu if a small katsuyu a few inches long is stuck on an opponent Tsunade needs only to channel the technique through Katsuya to kill an opponent. I can see Tsunade inacting this jutsu while multitasking as she always holds the jutsu that keeps her looking young, while using augmented monster strength, while using forbidden jutsus, or how she keeps up her technique while she heals.In addition to the obvious fact that Katsuyu can crush people. In addition to the obvious fact that Katsuyu can crush people. Given the crushing power of this mini katsuyu it only stands to reason the a full sized katsuyu would be much more deadly.
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We also know that Katsuyu can completely envelop people quickly even without their permission. So yes, Katsuyu is evidently quick as she is was able to get into the room and envelop people without them noticing.
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And Katsuyu moved from directly next to Manda, to behind Gamabunta before Jiraiya launched his katon.
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And Katsuyu apparently left the hokage mansion and quickly spread through the town in one panel.
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And Tsunade can seeming sense what Katsuyu sees
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Katsuyu cannot be harmed cutting or stabbing and as we've seen her withstand Shinra Tensei FP and Chibaku Tensei it is safe to assume she can withstand being crushed.
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And if this is Katsuyu divided by hundreds or even thousands
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then a Katsuyu only divided by 12 would be much larger than the each of the other shinobi. Handling one Katsuyu mini that still has the abilities of to split and all other functions of the whole would be too much for any of these shinobi. Adding another mini and Tsunade is too much for them.
 
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Forbidden Technique

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No fast handseal feats?
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So you seem to think Katsuyu is some pushover. That even Choji can handle but Choji would be completely fodderized by the mini of Katsuyu that I described earlier.
Among Katsyuyu's abilities is the ability to divide into many versions of herself. Her full bodied self is capable of spitting acid so it is logical to assume that her minis could as well. In other words she could surround enemies and perform combination attacks with herself. She could have infinitely many maneuvering options.
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] Or given how Tsunade was able to heal the village through Katsuya and she was going to kill Orochimaru with Medical Ninjutsu if a small katsuyu a few inches long is stuck on an opponent Tsunade needs only to channel the technique through Katsuya to kill an opponent. I can see Tsunade inacting this jutsu while multitasking as she always holds the jutsu that keeps her looking young, while using augmented monster strength, while using forbidden jutsus, or how she keeps up her technique while she heals.In addition to the obvious fact that Katsuyu can crush people. In addition to the obvious fact that Katsuyu can crush people. Given the crushing power of this mini katsuyu it only stands to reason the a full sized katsuyu would be much more deadly.
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We also know that Katsuyu can completely envelop people quickly even without their permission. So yes, Katsuyu is evidently quick as she is was able to get into the room and envelop people without them noticing.
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And Katsuyu moved from directly next to Manda, to behind Gamabunta before Jiraiya launched his katon.
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And Katsuyu apparently left the hokage mansion and quickly spread through the town in one panel.
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And Tsunade can seeming sense what Katsuyu sees
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Katsuyu cannot be harmed cutting or stabbing and as we've seen her withstand Shinra Tensei FP and Chibaku Tensei it is safe to assume she can withstand being crushed.
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And if this is Katsuyu divided by hundreds or even thousands
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then a Katsuyu only divided by 12 would be much larger than the each of the other shinobi. Handling one Katsuyu mini that still has the abilities of to split and all other functions of the whole would be too much for any of these shinobi. Adding another mini and Tsunade is too much for them.

It's amazing how many feats and power ups you gave Katsuya, of which she has never shown.

As far as her splitting herself 11 times for each of K11, manga evidence please? She has only shown to disperse into hundreds-thousands human sized minis, and from those minis disperse into palm sized minis.

If she could accomplish what you just said, you think she wouldn't of done it here? It would of made a lot more sense for her to split herself into 10 or so bigger versions to not only escape Mandas grip, but attack him with acid, as he was being occupied by gamabunta.
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You also didn't want to accept Shino being able to use poison bugs, because he hasn't shown to use it; but you're saying Katsuya can split into her minis and still spit acid which she hasn't shown to be able to do either. It's really not all that logical either, as Katsuya has to divide her chakra into those hundreds-thousands of minis. In fact, in her full form Katsuya offered Tsunade to put her back together, which is proof she has healing abilities without a needed supply of chakra from Tsunade. However, in her mini form, she had to rely on Tsunade to supply the chakra for her to perform healing abilities.
All this should of established that Katsuya minis aren't even a threat.

Katsuya hasn't shown to be very offensive whats so ever. The only thing she has in that department is her acid, which she has only shown to be able to use in her full form. Not to mention, in this form, she hasn't shown any type of mobility.

Katsuyas acid is easily blown back at her by BM Choji, who is also give or take, the same size as Katsuya.
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Adding Kibas Double Headed Wolf, Shinos bugs, and TenTens ninja tools is enough to occupy Katsuya. All the while Tsunade is battling Lee, Neji, and Shikamaru, and will be sealed by Sai soon as she gets caught by shadow possession.
 
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