[VS] Zoro vs Vergo

[KingHashirama]

Which explains why Law is stronger than Doflaming-oh, wait.

The very fact that the main deciding factor in Kid's bounty was his slaughtering of innocents is enough proof that it's not a good measure of strength. Luffy beat Croco despite having a lower bounty. Chopper is stronger than Buggy, but has a far lower bounty. Robin has a higher bounty than Sanji, but she's weaker. Bartolomeo is a Supernova, but is weaker than Sanji.

@Bold: that's because Luffy's opponent was almost twice as strong as Zoro's.

Hmmm.. no clue what you are on about.. since Law got wrecked but ok.


Thats cool, so where did they downgrade his strength? Nowhere. They simply gave the reason for the bounty, just like Luffy got his for attacking the government sites. Why bounties are given has nothing to do with my claim of they can be used to judge someone's strength. Everytime luffy has gotten stronger his bounty went up, are you gonna deny it? But the reason for the bounty in storyline was different. However, as readers we can use the bounties to assess the strength of characters. You don't wanna use the bounties because then Sanji isn't on Zoro's level, which you don't like.



Robin when she was introduced would've destroyed Sanji..... so yea. you know snapped his neck?


I'm not the one who made the "Lucy >> Kaku = Luffy >> Zoro" I simply pointed out the big flaw that luffy barely survived against Lucy, while Zoro destroyed Kaku. So no clue how th difference between Lucy and Kaku applies to Luffy and Zoro.

It is big Croc can stomp Mr. 1, Croc went out his way because Mr. 1 is his only decently strong subordinate. They are not like Luffy and Zoro because if all of Luffy's crew was at IP he wouldn't only free Zoro.

of course, just like Corc would've stomped luffy. Mr.1 had no haki back then, hence can't hit a logia. I mean smoker was losing to Croc.. yet would've wrecked Luffy. However, as far strength goes (if he can hit a logia) there isn't a "HUGE" difference.

and then you start comparing them in personalities....... -sigh-.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Don't see how Kidd's portrayal is better, Sabody put then 3 as around equal while we've barley seen Kidd Post TS.

It is big Croc can stomp Mr. 1, Croc went out his way because Mr. 1 is his only decently strong subordinate. They are not like Luffy and Zoro because if all of Luffy's crew was at IP he wouldn't only free Zoro.

Bon Clay too, but he was with the other group and stayed behind, otherwise, motives aside, Croc would've probably wanted Bon too

 

[-Akuma-]

So now Barto is stronger than Sanji, Luffy using made up moves to one shot Ace now this

 

[Bogard]

I won't say Crocodile was much stronger than Daz Bones. He had a major logia intangibility advantage but the moment Luffy could touch him, he stomped Crocodile who didn't seem to have that great combat skills. Notice as well that Zoro got a 60Millions bounty for defeating Daz Bones, which was only 40millions lower than the bounty Luffy got from defeating Crocodile and Smoker himself hyped Daz Bones to be strong with Tashigi not believing he even lost to someone

Don't see how Kidd's portrayal is better, Sabody put then 3 as around equal while we've barley seen Kidd Post TS.

No, Sabaody introduced their rivarly. I won't say it was a testament of strength

1- Only supernova introduced with a bounty superior to Luffy's by Shakky who was listing it in a way as if Kid would be the main concurrent
2- Only supernova captain who possess another supernova in his crew outside strawhats with that supernova who was matching a supernova captain in combat
3- Civilians listing Kid and Drake as the highest quality supernovas in the return Sabaody archipelo

I'd also add that the fact that Law is now showed to be weaker than Luffy with his limits already showed when Kid is reserved for later, plus the fact he is destinated to be an ally to Luffy doesn't help either since he'd always have to stand back to Luffy(like he does with Doflamingo now) when Kid appears as a better rival

 

[KingHashirama]

So now Barto is stronger than Sanji, Luffy using made up moves to one shot Ace now this

actually nope, I had bartolameo confused with the big angel man in the original supernova, since someone decided it'd be good to compare 2 generations as far where they stand, but his name is Urouge. ( excuse my confusion, haven't read one piece chapters like that for while.)

 

[Punk Hazard]

Hmmm.. no clue what you are on about.. since Law got wrecked but ok.


Thats cool, so where did they downgrade his strength? Nowhere. They simply gave the reason for the bounty, just like Luffy got his for attacking the government sites. Why bounties are given has nothing to do with my claim of they can be used to judge someone's strength. Everytime luffy has gotten stronger his bounty went up, are you gonna deny it? But the reason for the bounty in storyline was different. However, as readers we can use the bounties to assess the strength of characters. You don't wanna use the bounties because then Sanji isn't on Zoro's level, which you don't like.

@Bold, any proof on the claim?

Robin when she was introduced would've destroyed Sanji..... so yea. you know snapped his neck?


I'm not the one who made the "Lucy >> Kaku = Luffy >> Zoro" I simply pointed out the big flaw that luffy barely survived against Lucy, while Zoro destroyed Kaku. So no clue how th difference between Lucy and Kaku applies to Luffy and Zoro.


of course, just like Corc would've stomped luffy. Mr.1 had no haki back then, hence can't hit a logia. I mean smoker was losing to Croc.. yet would've wrecked Luffy. However, as far strength goes (if he can hit a logia) there isn't a "HUGE" difference.

and then you start comparing them in personalities....... -sigh-.

That's the point. Law's bounty is far higher than Doflamingo's, but who's stronger?

Uhm, yes, it does. If someone receives a high bounty because of something other than their strength, then it's not a measure of their strength.

Bartolomeo almost died against Gladius, someone who is obviously below Sanji.

Zoro did not destroy Kaku.

 

[-Akuma-]

I won't say Crocodile was much stronger than Daz Bones. He had a major logia intangibility advantage but the moment Luffy could touch him, he stomped Crocodile who didn't seem to have that great combat skills. Notice as well that Zoro got a 60Millions bounty for defeating Daz Bones, which was only 40millions lower than the bounty Luffy got from defeating Crocodile and Smoker himself hyped Daz Bones to be strong with Tashigi not believing he even lost to someone

No, Sabaody introduced their rivarly. I won't say it was a testament of strength

1- Only supernova introduced with a bounty superior to Luffy's by Shakky who was listing it in a way as if Kid would be the main concurrent
2- Only supernova captain who possess another supernova in his crew outside strawhats with that supernova who was matching a supernova captain in combat
3- Civilians listing Kid and Drake as the highest quality supernovas in the return Sabaody archipelo

I'd also add that the fact that Law is now showed to be weaker than Luffy with his limits already showed when Kid is reserved for later, plus the fact he is destinated to be an ally to Luffy doesn't help either since he'd always have to stand back to Luffy(like he does with Doflamingo now) when Kid appears as a better rival

Not saying Daz was weak but he can't exactly touch Croc, Daz mostly has better fighting skills than Croc.


- Bounty higher than Luffy because he murders civilians.

- Don't see how that reflexes individual strength but I will admit Kidd's crew is stronger than Law's.

- That would imply that Kidd and Drake are stronger than Luffy which I'm not buying but you do have a point.


As for Law, he is mostly likely weaker than Luffy but you can't say he's shown his limits. Law hasn't been showed fighting at 100%z

 

[KingHashirama]

That's the point. Law's bounty is far higher than Doflamingo's, but who's stronger?

Uhm, yes, it does. If someone receives a high bounty because of something other than their strength, then it's not a measure of their strength.

Bartolomeo almost died against Gladius, someone who is obviously below Sanji.

Zoro did not destroy Kaku.

Since we were talking about the ORIGINAL supernovas, and their generation. I thought Bartholomo was this

You must be registered for see links

so my bad (only familiar with the big names sorry). But you meant the new supernovas who have their own generation, and have nothing to do with the previous.

From what I saw Zoro kind of destroyed him

[video=youtube;5UUz0NMlSU4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UUz0NMlSU4[/video]


Bounties are a way to determine a person's strength for the reader, they are given to people due to their crimes, not because of their actual strength. Just like how the Marines have admirals and so on... Thats why you always see normal people talking about "ohh he has ______ bounty whatS?!!!" in one piece.

 

[-Akuma-]

actually nope, I had bartolameo confused with the big angel man in the original supernova, since someone decided it'd be good to compare 2 generations as far where they stand, but his name is Urouge. ( excuse my confusion, haven't read one piece chapters like that for while.)

Urouge is still weaker than Sanji -_-.

 

[KingHashirama]

Urouge is still weaker than Sanji -_-.

When the supernova were introduced? Loll... none of them were weaker than Sanji dude.

(they aren't considered supernovas anymore though right?)

 

[Bogard]

Not saying Daz was weak but he can't exactly touch Croc, Daz mostly has better fighting skills than Croc.


- Bounty higher than Luffy because he murders civilians.

- Don't see how that reflexes individual strength but I will admit Kidd's crew is stronger than Law's.

- That would imply that Kidd and Drake are stronger than Luffy which I'm not buying but you do have a point.


As for Law, he is mostly likely weaker than Luffy but you can't say he's shown his limits. Law hasn't been showed fighting at 100%z

- I know but murdering civilians alone can't bring your bounty that far, so i think that even without it, he'd have a bounty near Luffy's at the time. The fact remains however that Shakky worded it as if he was the principal concurrent to Luffy

- Well if you have a subordinate as strong as a supernova captain, it hypes you indirectly just like Zoro and Luffy

- It could be understandable for Luffy since he disappeared for 2 years. Law has no excuse however

 

[KingHashirama]

I surrender my argument. X_X As I do not have that much memorized information to go into depth with the arguments.

Thank you for the discussions!

 

[-Akuma-]

- I know but murdering civilians alone can't bring your bounty that far, so i think that even without it, he'd have a bounty near Luffy's at the time. The fact remains however that Shakky worded it as if he was the principal concurrent to Luffy

- Well if you have a subordinate as strong as a supernova captain, it hypes you indirectly just like Zoro and Luffy

- It could be understandable for Luffy since he disappeared for 2 years. Law has no excuse however

- Killing civilians would bring your bounty up a lot because you're much more dangerous, if someone smart like Law was to kill civilians his bounty would be higher than Kidd's.

- Meh not really I don't see a gap between Luffy and Law pre TS, though there is no much to go by.

- You do realise they are limits to what Law could have done because he is a warlord now, he couldn't do whatever he wanted.

 

[Dr Strangelove]

I'll give it to Zoro mid diff.
He can't cut through Vergo's CoA by now i'd be surprised, impressive as it is.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

I'll give it to Zoro mid diff.
He can't cut through Vergo's CoA by now i'd be surprised, impressive as it is.

And I suppose Sanji would too, yeah?

Y'know... considering he's like Zoro's main rival and all

 

[TheHokage]

I won't say Crocodile was much stronger than Daz Bones. He had a major logia intangibility advantage but the moment Luffy could touch him, he stomped Crocodile who didn't seem to have that great combat skills. Notice as well that Zoro got a 60Millions bounty for defeating Daz Bones, which was only 40millions lower than the bounty Luffy got from defeating Crocodile and Smoker himself hyped Daz Bones to be strong with Tashigi not believing he even lost to someone

No, Sabaody introduced their rivarly. I won't say it was a testament of strength

1- Only supernova introduced with a bounty superior to Luffy's by Shakky who was listing it in a way as if Kid would be the main concurrent
2- Only supernova captain who possess another supernova in his crew outside strawhats with that supernova who was matching a supernova captain in combat
3- Civilians listing Kid and Drake as the highest quality supernovas in the return Sabaody archipelo

I'd also add that the fact that Law is now showed to be weaker than Luffy with his limits already showed when Kid is reserved for later, plus the fact he is destinated to be an ally to Luffy doesn't help either since he'd always have to stand back to Luffy(like he does with Doflamingo now) when Kid appears as a better rival

When did Luffy defeat Smoker??

 

[Bogard]

When did Luffy defeat Smoker??

I never said Smoker got defeated by Luffy. Read carefully. There is a and in between Crocodile and Smoker showing a seperation between 2 different claims with the second claim starting with Smoker hyping Daz Bones. It had no relationship with the first part of my sentence involving Luffy or Crocodile

 

[Dr Strangelove]

And I suppose Sanji would too, yeah?

Y'know... considering he's like Zoro's main rival and all

Probably not...
Y'know, considering he has no form of cutting power.

 

[A v i]

Zoro and Sanji are inextricably linked and could never be pulled apart

Why exactly they're inextricably linked to each other? Because you think so? Or that you want them to be like that?

I concur. Luffy's G4 has made him pull ahead

Zoro has yet to go all out. He fought someone who's nowhere near his level so he didn't really bring forth his full power. At best Pica to Zoro is like Hody to Luffy.

No WTF, Luffy has been a cut above Zoro and Zoro himself has accepted that. In fact Zoro wants Luffy stronger than him.

Did he? I don't really remember that.

The bond? Friendship? Again, no Strawhat is any more or less a friend to Luffy

It's also been shown throughout the series that no matter how strong Zoro's opponent is:
1. Luffy's is miles stronger (e.g. Crocodile >>>> Daz Bones, Enel >>>> Ohm, Lucci >>>> Kaku)
2. Sanji's is ONLY JUST slightly weaker (e.g. Daz Bones > Bon Kurei, Kaku > Jabura)

It would have been cool if you actually didn't forgot the fact that Luffy's opponents are always >>>>> Luffy during respective arcs.

Devil fruit users becomes fodders if their powers becomes useless = Manga fact.
Logia's are best examples of people getting super weakened after losing their means to fight = Manga fact.
Except for Lucci, all of Luffy's opponents were defeated by using their weakness as an advantage = Fact.

All of Zoro's opponents are significantly stronger than that of Sanji and I don't remember Zoro or Sanji using natural weakness of their opponents to win the battles like Luffy which is why no opponent of Luffy apart from Lucci can be used as a testament of his strength.

Even Kaku wasn't that far away from Lucci but the gap b/w Lucci and Kaku was bigger than the gap b/w Kaku and Jabra. Jabra lost at mid dif where as Kaku pushed Zoro who's supposed be stronger than Sanji to high dif which explains the difference in their strength. Kaku's doriki can't be used to measure his strength as he's a swordsman unlike Lucci or Jabra who uses hand to hand combat.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Probably not...
Y'know, considering he has no form of cutting power.

Y'know... whether he cuts or not makes no difference, a fight is a fight

The fact Sanji doesn't use swords is not what makes him weaker than Zoro, he's less durable, he can deal similar amounts of damage as Zoro

So logically if Zoro mid diffs, Sanji should too... but...