[VS] Zoro vs Vergo and Smoker

[-Akuma-]

I'm sorry for the late reply..

But what feats from Vergo put him higher than Pica?

Vergo being Doffy's right hand man has nothing to do with this. All four, Vergo, Pica, Trebol, and Diamante appeared to be close to each other in strength/power. That's just how it was portrayed to us readers.

I will agree that I was out of line by implying that Pica may be stronger than Vergo. But according to the manga, I don't see anything about Vergo being stronger. As I said, all four of Doflamingo's top executives appear to be equals.

Besting Sanji without going all out, beating the living dog shit outta of Smoker.


No all 4 never seemed even close in strength, in fact when it goes to pure feats people like Lao G have more impressive feats than Trebol and Diamante but are ranked below them simply on rank.


Corazon was Doffy's right hand simply because he was Doffy's blood brother. While being Doffy's right hand does require you to be strong in general of Doffy wouldn't have his whole family train Law in preparation to become his right hand.

 

[LBeezy]

Besting Sanji without going all out, beating the living dog shit outta of Smoker.


No all 4 never seemed even close in strength, in fact when it goes to pure feats people like Lao G have more impressive feats than Trebol and Diamante but are ranked below them simply on rank.


Corazon was Doffy's right hand simply because he was Doffy's blood brother. While being Doffy's right hand does require you to be strong in general of Doffy wouldn't have his whole family train Law in preparation to become his right hand.

Your own words on rank and strength contradict Vergo being stronger than Pica just because he's Doffy's right hand man.
As far as I'm concerned, Vergo and Pica should be CLOSE to equal in strength.. with that being said, Zoro one shotted Pica's full body haki.. so IF he doesn't one shot Vergo, I'm sure it still wouldn't take too many more shots for Zoro to win.


What happened with Vergo and Sanji wasn't a fresh 1 v 1 fight. So we can't really judge him based on that.

He did beat Smoker pretty bad.. I'll give you that.. but with that being said, you're implying that he's on a higher level than Smoker. And by manga feats Zoro should be able to handle Vergo with approximately the same amount of difficulty as Pica. Therefore Zoro should be well above Smoker as well..


I don't see Zoro losing this one.

 

[TheHokage]

What makes you think that Vergo is stronger than Zoro?

Feats and portrayal.

Again I used the word arguably even if for argument sake Zoro beat Vergo he'd be in such a state afterwards Smoker would low diff him.

 

[LBeezy]

Feats and portrayal.

Again I used the word arguably even if for argument sake Zoro beat Vergo he'd be in such a state afterwards Smoker would low diff him.

Feats and portrayal actually place Zoro above Vergo imo.

 

[MickNerks]

I don't see Vergo being much of a problem. I think even Sanji could take Vergo if he were to be serious and use Haki. And after we have seen Zoro take down Full Haki Pica, I'm extremely confident that Vergo would not be an issue. Sadly smoker has been shown to be weaker than Vergo at this point and nothing but a fly to be swatted in regards to Doflamingo. Even Sanji was able to but up more of a fight to doflamingo and that was without Haki.

So I'm extremely confident that Zoro could defeat both enemies with High Difficulty.

Zoro has shown but better strength, speed, and Durability feats then both Vergo and Smoker.

 

[TheHokage]

Feats and portrayal actually place Zoro above Vergo imo.

Well his feats are beating Sanji fairly easy (who is shown to be Zoro's rival in the crew and while I see Zoro as stronger than Sanji it's not 'that' big of a difference). He was able to outmatch Law in speed and it could be debated he would have beat Law had he not become overconfident in Haki and tried to take on Law's attack. He beat Smoker who is portrayed to be one of Luffy's rivals.

Zoro has beaten Pica who while he has a large destructive capability his combat skills are sub par at best who did he fight in close combat to prove himself who did he defeat using his haki? Also full body haki does not mean two people have the same level of haki.

don't see Vergo being much of a problem. I think even Sanji could take Vergo if he were to be serious and use Haki. And after we have seen Zoro take down Full Haki Pica, I'm extremely confident that Vergo would not be an issue. Sadly smoker has been shown to be weaker than Vergo at this point and nothing but a fly to be swatted in regards to Doflamingo. Even Sanji was able to but up more of a fight to doflamingo and that was without Haki.

So I'm extremely confident that Zoro could defeat both enemies with High Difficulty.

Zoro has shown but better strength, speed, and Durability feats then both Vergo and Smoker.

Sanji was defeated by Vergo who wasn't using haki nor was he using his bamboo stick...You want to use the argument Sanji put up a better fight? Smoker was injured after battling Vergo and taking multiple hits you know the same hits that cracked Sanji's shin.

Nice try though.

 

[WoldOfFingo]

Well his feats are beating Sanji fairly easy (who is shown to be Zoro's rival in the crew and while I see Zoro as stronger than Sanji it's not 'that' big of a difference). He was able to outmatch Law in speed and it could be debated he would have beat Law had he not become overconfident in Haki and tried to take on Law's attack. He beat Smoker who is portrayed to be one of Luffy's rivals.

Zoro has beaten Pica who while he has a large destructive capability his combat skills are sub par at best who did he fight in close combat to prove himself who did he defeat using his haki? Also full body haki does not mean two people have the same level of haki.



Sanji was defeated by Vergo who wasn't using haki nor was he using his bamboo stick...You want to use the argument Sanji put up a better fight? Smoker was injured after battling Vergo and taking multiple hits you know the same hits that cracked Sanji's shin.

Nice try though.

Oh please Smoker's durability is utter garbage at this point. Doffy slashed him a few times and he went down without even putting up a fight. The likes of Zoro and Luffy can takes those attacks all day without flinching. A few punches won't even bother Zoro. Why Smoker fans can't except after his lackluster showdowns recently just maybe his potential is not good enough to compete anymore?
Vergo and Pica both held the same rank , both had fullbody haki... u have to be a fool to not understand the meaning what Oda was trying to say here.

 

[LBeezy]

Well his feats are beating Sanji fairly easy (who is shown to be Zoro's rival in the crew and while I see Zoro as stronger than Sanji it's not 'that' big of a difference). He was able to outmatch Law in speed and it could be debated he would have beat Law had he not become overconfident in Haki and tried to take on Law's attack. He beat Smoker who is portrayed to be one of Luffy's rivals.

Zoro has beaten Pica who while he has a large destructive capability his combat skills are sub par at best who did he fight in close combat to prove himself who did he defeat using his haki? Also full body haki does not mean two people have the same level of haki.



Sanji was defeated by Vergo who wasn't using haki nor was he using his bamboo stick...You want to use the argument Sanji put up a better fight? Smoker was injured after battling Vergo and taking multiple hits you know the same hits that cracked Sanji's shin.

Nice try though.

I see your point of view.. but where you and I see things differently at, is that I put Zoro in the same tier as Law. Not Sanji.

I also do not see Smoker being Luffy's rival currently. (In fact I believe they are more of/will be more of allies than enemies.)


You are correct in the statement of "two full body haki users are not necessarily equal in haki".. however Vergo and Pica have only been portrayed as basically equals in the manga this whole time. Unless I'm wrong, and you can show me a scan of Doflamingo, their Captain, stating which one is superior in overall power and strength?

 

[-Akuma-]

Your own words on rank and strength contradict Vergo being stronger than Pica just because he's Doffy's right hand man.
As far as I'm concerned, Vergo and Pica should be CLOSE to equal in strength.. with that being said, Zoro one shotted Pica's full body haki.. so IF he doesn't one shot Vergo, I'm sure it still wouldn't take too many more shots for Zoro to win.


What happened with Vergo and Sanji wasn't a fresh 1 v 1 fight. So we can't really judge him based on that.

He did beat Smoker pretty bad.. I'll give you that.. but with that being said, you're implying that he's on a higher level than Smoker. And by manga feats Zoro should be able to handle Vergo with approximately the same amount of difficulty as Pica. Therefore Zoro should be well above Smoker as well..


I don't see Zoro losing this one.

It doesn't but okay. Pica shouldn't be close at all, he displayed no good fight power and only manged to stall Zoro due to the nature of his powers. Once again Pica isn't even a physical orientated fighter so his haki shouldn't compared to Vergo's at all, heck it shouldn't even compare to Smoker's who Vergo completely overpowered in a haki clash. If Zoro dos beat Vergo he's not doing easily.



Zoro is not winning two on one.

 

[loj]

Vergo and Smoker wins but high diff at last.


TS Zoro still dodn't go all in and he defeated Pica without trouble.

But Vergo and Smoker might be a bit to much I guess even though I'd go with Zoro extreme diff.

 

[ToshiZO]

For real? I thought he was.. I might be wrong here, but wasn't Both Pika and Vergo top executives or something like that for Doflamingo?

Pica Diamante and Trebol all had the same rank as top executives. Yet look at the difference between them. Diamante was a fodder who got

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, Trebol got owned by an armless corpse

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. Pica was much more impressive than them and just like that Vergo was much more impressive than Pica.

So just because they were all given the same rank you are telling me Diamante was on Pica's level?

Vergo's Haki was also hyped by both Doflamingo and

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. Pica used it as a last resort, Vergo's specialty was his haki, his epithet was Demon Bamboo referring to when he clad his ordinary bamboo stick with Haki making it a formidable weapon.

His attacks after swing dented the

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. That's a frigging bamboo stick's after swing that did that all thanks to how potent his Haki was. That is insane.

Easily by portrayal everything points at Vergo's Haki being above Pica's.

 

[sravan]

I know Zorro is strong but he can't beat smoker & vergo if they support each other.
I can't stop laughing whenever i read a Zorro thread..
he can beat those two in a 1 on 1 fight mid diff

 

[TheHokage]

Oh please Smoker's durability is utter garbage at this point. Doffy slashed him a few times and he went down without even putting up a fight.

Yet he took multiple hits from Vergo while using Haki, let me remind you one non haki kick cracked Sanji's leg (his strongest attribute) he knocked Law out with one hit with his Haki bamboo stick. Doffy slashed him a few times? It was off panel we seen one slash and blood besides Smoker was already injured at this point...

The likes of Zoro and Luffy can takes those attacks all day without flinching. A few punches won't even bother Zoro

Yet Zoro never took one of those attacks...so yeah of course he can. Again a few Haki punches wouldn't bother Zoro? Show me proof where his durability is so great that he can do that without it bothering him.

Why Smoker fans can't except after his lackluster showdowns recently just maybe his potential is not good enough to compete anymore?

It's not just about being a Smoker fan...it's about understanding the context of the story rather than just going 'oh he's stronger, the other character is fodder' All of Smoker's fights/beatdowns have had context behind them the only real loss where he went in with the intention of winning was Law and he was clearly matching Law in physical combat and speed. Not to mention you have to be an idiot to not realise Oda isn't just going to make a character who has been Luffy's rival from before the Strawhats entered the grand line just not be able to compete anymore it makes no logical sense to the story or the character developments for the characters.

Vergo and Pica both held the same rank , both had fullbody haki... u have to be a fool to not understand the meaning what Oda was trying to say here.

Not really, titles mean nothing in this context. The fact you used 'they both had full body haki' shows how weak your argument is so anyone who shows the full body haki feat immediately has the same strength of haki? Yeah okay, when Luffy or some other top tier character shows full body haki we'll just say the same right? Full body haki is only competent if the users haki has strength behind it Vergo showed his against Law, Sanji and Smoker while Pica showed his against no one.

I see your point of view.. but where you and I see things differently at, is that I put Zoro in the same tier as Law. Not Sanji.

Well I suppose that's a fair argument however I'm going to trust Oda's consistency with his characters he's always portrayed Zoro and Sanji as rivals and while Zoro is clearly a tad bit stronger it's never to a case Sanji wouldn't be a threat to him.

I also do not see Smoker being Luffy's rival currently. (In fact I believe they are more of/will be more of allies than enemies.)

He's always going to be Luffy's rival until Luffy gets a victory over him in my opinion. (Why can't they be both? Luffy and Smoker fighting each other while when needed team up against a common enemy?)

You are correct in the statement of "two full body haki users are not necessarily equal in haki".. however Vergo and Pica have only been portrayed as basically equals in the manga this whole time. Unless I'm wrong, and you can show me a scan of Doflamingo, their Captain, stating which one is superior in overall power and strength?

Equal does not mean in every aspect. If the titles of the Elite Executive really meant equal then it would mean Trebol, Diamante, Pica and Vergo are equal in strength which just wouldn't make sense from what we've seen by each of them individually. For instance Pica was shown to be a monster with his destructive capabilities due to his devil fruit while Vergo was rated on his close combat/haki abilities. Portrayal can only justify a certain extent of an argument however without feats to go along with that portrayal it's just one interpretation against another. In my eyes Vergo bested Sanji, Law (at one point he did) and Smoker who did Pica beat that was credible and not injured?.

- It's glad to see the base hasn't changed with the Zoro fandom just wait for Wano Kuni - 'Zoro is admiral tier oh mah gawd he cut that fodder civilian down who had the same name as someone strong that must mean something'