[Discussion] Zoro opened a plot hole

[Bogard]

Pica thought Zoro couldn't cut his haki despite seeing how Zoro reduced to dust his entire golem easily. And Zoro seemed to agree since he implied that to cut him, his haki would have to be stronger than his own

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

But it doesn't make sense to me. If it's really the case, then does it mean that if you fight a stronger armament user than you, you can't win? You can't even damage him with sheer brute strength? Then how is Luffy supposed to win then since his armament sucks, at least is weaker than Doffy's(as demonstrated in the palace). Plot-hole?

Doesn't make sense as well since i'm pretty certain we've already seen armament shield getting penetrated with sheer brute strength alone. At the very least pretimeskip we had Luffy penetrating the gorgon sister's armament with brute force alone(the example i remember the most and i'm pretty certain there is more)

So was it a mistranslation? Was Zoro just acting arrogantly? Or is it really true, and thus making it a plot-hole in the manga?

 

[Amaterasu]

You think Zoro said "That's only if your haki's stronger than mine" ?

 

[Bogard]

You think Zoro said "That's only if your haki's stronger than mine" ?

I don't get it :|

 

[Amaterasu]

I don't get it :|

Nevermind.

 

[~Naruto&Itachi~]

yep akainu wasn't hurt by marco and vista even though they used their haki

 

[Bogard]

yep akainu wasn't hurt by marco and vista even though they used their haki

Yeah that weird instance too, then Zoro may have actually be right? Hard to believe :| Still doesn't explain how Luffy could bypass Gorgon sister's armament with brute force pretimeskip or even Hody's hakiless bite on Luffy -_-

 

[Saikyokami]

Yeah that weird instance too, then Zoro may have actually be right? Hard to believe :| Still doesn't explain how Luffy could bypass Gorgon sister's armament with brute force pretimeskip or even Hody's hakiless bite on Luffy -_-

Luffy is the main character.
He does what he wants.

 

[A v i]

It wasn't just Zoro. Even Vergo implied it against Smoker but I don't think you need your opponent level haki to hurt him since not everyone can clad their body with haki but if your haki clashes with opponents haki then you need to have stronger haki than your opponent's haki in order to overcome it.

Yes, brute strength can help you against haki. COA is nothing but an ability that increases your brute strength in the first place. And it was clearly proved when Bellamy managed to hurt Luffy. He managed to hurt him despite of having far weaker COA than Luffy because of the force he received from his movement speed. So ya brute strength can be used to beat haki users.

 

[VongolaX]

No plot hole, I was just right

 

[silmarill]

It wasn't just Zoro. Even Vergo implied it against Smoker but I don't think you need your opponent level haki to hurt him since not everyone can clad their body with haki but if your haki clashes with opponents haki then you need to have stronger haki than your opponent's haki in order to overcome it.

Yes, brute strength can help you against haki. COA is nothing but an ability that increases your brute strength in the first place. And it was clearly proved when Bellamy managed to hurt Luffy. He managed to hurt him despite of having far weaker COA than Luffy because of the force he received from his movement speed. So ya brute strength can be used to beat haki users.

Bellamy hurt Luffy yea but that does not mean his haki was better than Luffy's
Luffy used haki on his abs, there is no way haki quality is the same on every body part
Take Chinjao for example, if he clad his head with haki it was more powerfull than on his fists. the same is the case with Luffy, haki on his abs is not as strong if he would do it on his legs or arms for example

 

[A v i]

Bellamy hurt Luffy yea but that does not mean his haki was better than Luffy's
Luffy used haki on his abs, there is no way haki quality is the same on every body part
Take Chinjao for example, if he clad his head with haki it was more powerfull than on his fists. the same is the case with Luffy, haki on his abs is not as strong if he would do it on his legs or arms for example

It seems like you didn't read my second paragraph. I have explained why Bellamy managed to hurt Luffy despite of having weaker haki than Luffy. And Chinjao's head butt is stronger than his other attacks because his his head in general carries more power than other parts of his body not because the haki he can clad at head is stronger than haki that was imbued at other parts. It's the same for Sanji, his legs are strongest part of his body so when he clads both hands and legs with haki legs can produce more powerful attacks than hands even if the haki level is equal at both places because his legs are stronger than his fists.

 

[Mikeuhsomething36]

There's a difference between cutting and striking a blow. The same difference between a super punch and a swift sword strike. Pica was just referring to the fact zoro wouldn't cut him, that doesn't mean zoro can't damage him just that he can't cleave him in half like he did his stones. In luffy's case, luffy wasn't using swords he was using his fists, a blow that has concussive force unlike a sword slash. People forget that Pica was just being arrogant just because you have more of something doesn't mean someone who has less is powerless before you. It's all about how you use that power.

 

[Bogard]

There's a difference between cutting and striking a blow. The same difference between a super punch and a swift sword strike. Pica was just referring to the fact zoro wouldn't cut him, that doesn't mean zoro can't damage him just that he can't cleave him in half like he did his stones. In luffy's case, luffy wasn't using swords he was using his fists, a blow that has concussive force unlike a sword slash. People forget that Pica was just being arrogant just because you have more of something doesn't mean someone who has less is powerless before you. It's all about how you use that power.

More like the contrary. Luffy said busoshoku was better for blunt than sword strikes

You must be registered for see images

Hell even Doffy was bleeding by just holding a sword despite coating his arm with armament. So if anything, swords should be more effective against Busoshoku than blunt

 

[A v i]

More like the contrary. Luffy said busoshoku was better for blunt than sword strikes

You must be registered for see images

Hell even Doffy was bleeding by just holding a sword despite coating his arm with armament. So if anything, swords should be more effective against Busoshoku than blunt

You don't need scans to prove it. Even in general it's hard to defend against sharp attacks than blunt attacks.

 

[Bogard]

You don't need scans to prove it. Even in general it's hard to defend against sharp attacks than blunt attacks.

True, but scans are always better to avoid useless arguments Lol

 

[obito uchiha the wraith]

armament haki doesnt make you invincible it greatly increases your durability and strike force. a normal attack CAN still hurt you if its strong enough. what zoro meant basically is if his haki is strong then it pretty much break through pikas like butter.

 

[A v i]

True, but scans are always better to avoid useless arguments Lol

True but I don't think the other dude is similar to those that would post clueless BS along with hopeless excuses even after knowing the fact that manga completely disagrees with them. Lol

armament haki doesnt make you invincible it greatly increases your durability and strike force. a normal attack CAN still hurt you if its strong enough. what zoro meant basically is if his haki is strong then it pretty much break through pikas like butter.

No, that's not what Zoro said. Pica implied that Zoro can't cut him if he cover his body with haki and Zoro replied to him by saying that that'll only happen if his haki is stronger than Zoro's. SO what Zoro was implying is that if Pica has stronger haki than Zoro then Pica can tank Zoro's attacks.

 

[Mikeuhsomething36]

More like the contrary. Luffy said busoshoku was better for blunt than sword strikes

You must be registered for see images

Hell even Doffy was bleeding by just holding a sword despite coating his arm with armament. So if anything, swords should be more effective against Busoshoku than blunt

Ah I see well that makes sense, I just thought luffy had a stronger arsenal but then again zoro's blade was pretty dang sharp to cut pixa like that. Thanks for the correction. Now if only Law was like zoro in that aspect

 

[Punk Hazard]

Haki is linked to the spirit, it's literally your will manifested. It's possible that as Doffy loses his composure more and more(finding he's the only one of his crew still around aside from Trebol, then when Trebol is eventually dispatched), his Haki will dampen a bit.

There's also the fact that Luffy has not found the will to properly engage Bellamy as yet, which could be what allowed Bellamy to bypass his Haki.

 

[Caliburn]

Pica thought Zoro couldn't cut his haki despite seeing how Zoro reduced to dust his entire golem easily. And Zoro seemed to agree since he implied that to cut him, his haki would have to be stronger than his own

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

But it doesn't make sense to me. If it's really the case, then does it mean that if you fight a stronger armament user than you, you can't win? You can't even damage him with sheer brute strength? Then how is Luffy supposed to win then since his armament sucks, at least is weaker than Doffy's(as demonstrated in the palace). Plot-hole?

Doesn't make sense as well since i'm pretty certain we've already seen armament shield getting penetrated with sheer brute strength alone. At the very least pretimeskip we had Luffy penetrating the gorgon sister's armament with brute force alone(the example i remember the most and i'm pretty certain there is more)

So was it a mistranslation? Was Zoro just acting arrogantly? Or is it really true, and thus making it a plot-hole in the manga?

I honestly said don't get what you're confused about nor where you see a loophole as if it wouldn't be like this, haki would make no sense and then you would have quite a few loopholes.

It doesn't really make much sense to say, which is pretty much what you just implied, that all haki users are equal. That just by knowing haki you now suddenly are equal to all the other people who know haki. Of course that's not the case nor did the series ever said it was like that. When two haki armament users fight, the one with the strongest armament wins. It's that simple and logical. It's no different than for instance two sprinters having a sprinting contest or two brawlers having a strength contest. The fastest will win the race and the strongest will win the brawl in a direct confrontation. So yeah for Zoro to be able to cut Pica's full body armament haki, he had to have stronger armament haki. The fact that Zoro was able to cut him simply means that his haki was indeed far more powerful than Pica's. There is really nothing odd about it nor is there a loophole. If Zoro's haki was weaker, he wouldn't have been able to cut him.

Armament haki functions like an armour and and every armour can be broken. Zoro's armament haki was stronger, so Zoro cut Pica's armour open. Every armour has its limit. It's not like that having armament haki you are suddenly immune to all damage. Do you think for example that even someone like Doflamingo would survive if a whole mountain falls on him? Having full body armament haki is not going to help you there despite the mountain having no haki at all. Haki has a limit. Same thing when Luffy fought the Gorgon sisters. Luffy was able to generate a large amount of strength which exceeded the limits of the Gorgon Sister's armament haki. The attack was stronger than the defense, thus the defense broke. In practice however it's just very unlikely that someone can generate enough strength to break the armament haki of a haki user while not being a haki user themselves. Most people who would be able to do such a thing, would have already learned how to use haki by that point.