[Discussion] Zoro beats sanji 9 times outta 10

[Uchiha boii]

Do people understand what winning 4 times out of 10 means?

You guys are basically saying Sanji beats Zoro. So if I started a Sanji vs Zoro thread you could say Sanji wins because that fight could be one of 4 fights out of 10 where Sanji wins.

Zoro wins 10/10. If you're stronger you win everytime.

Saying Zoro would lose even once is almost saying Zoro = Sanji.

It can be an extreme diff fight but Sanji loses everytime, there wont be a fight where Zoro is on the floor with Sanji walking away.

I would say with current feats and portrayal he beats Sanji mid-high diff.

I didnt wanna look like a fanboy lol i agree tho but zoro is closer to liffy then yu think

 

[ToshiZO]

This is gonna be my last reply here as you have not provided anything new in these arguments.

No it doesn't. Sanji's body was severely crippled, so his performance was much worse than it should have been. Therefore, we can't use it to evaluate Sanji's top strength. To evaluate Sanji's top strength based on the fight against Vergo where he was injured is the same as evaluating Whitebeard's top strength based on the fact that a crew of rookies killed him after he received heavy injuries.

haha what type of nonsense is this? Is anyone else reading this stuff? You just compared an injury that Usopp tanked to everything WB took before facing Teach and company. Lmfao sig worthy stuff.

Usopp handling the attack means nothing because it was explicitly stated the damage sustained was not due to the attack or Sanji's incapability to handle it, but Nami's incapability to handle it while being in Sanji's body.

Tell me, please, that you understand the difference between Usopp handling it because he was in his own body, and Sanji's body being injured because Nami couldn't not handle it(the body) properly. If Law switches Whitebeard's mind with a baby's, and WB's body is cut into pieces because Usopp attacked it and the baby couldn't control the body to defend, would you go "Well, the baby being in WB's body had nothing to do with?"

Who said it had nothing to do with it? Do you want me to repeat myself, because you added nothing new to this. "and sure Nami handled it worse than Sanji would, but lol it was his own body, his own durability...........the body he spent two years training."

Sorry you're not using this as a fight changing excuse. Vergo being cheapshotted makes up for this injury that Usopp tanked anyways. His bodies durability and toughness doesn't just magically dissapear wth type of dumb logic is that?
Nami in Sanji's body got up before Usopp did.

Not the same. Sanji's injury was induced through an external factor that wasn't a member of the fight. The Diamble Jambe to Vergo's head is part of the fight. What you're saying here is the same as saying Luffy knocking out Lucci with Jet Gatling doesn't count because Luffy damaged Lucci before with other attacks. An attack delivered during the fight between the two people fighting counts; damage from an attack from an external source that isn't part of the fight does not.

Uh no Diable Jambe was a cheapshot before Vergo had known there was even a "fight" to begin with. Horrible analogy, not even close to the same thing.

If Luffy had cranked Lucci from behind with a g2 punch before the fight when Lucci was off guard, then you might have an argument.

It was explicitly stated that Sanji's body was weaker than normal, and was immediately attributed to the fact that Nami was in his body. Are you saying to ignore what Oda has clearly and explicitly declared because it doesn't fit your opinion?


Sanji's body was long-term damaged. Zoro's was not, being only momentarily exhausted. Therefore, their performances against those two people do not match up proportionately, and cannot be compared.

And like I said it makes Sanji look even worse, because something Usopp tanked gave Sanji's body that much trouble where it carried over to a fight later on.

Funny how you try to refute my point and then restate it right here:


Tashigi KO'd her with one blow. That's the credit to her strength I'm giving her because that's what happened.

Ok then, ignore what brought her to that point.

Seeing as you're the one resorting to insults, you're the one who's actually in his feelings.

nope not at all lol, you sound hurt though.

Incorrect. Enel and Luffy were in the same tier back in Skypeai, Enel had much greater destructive feats and speed, while Luffy was physically stronger and more durable.

Kaku was faster than Zoro, who was physically stronger.


Law's durability and endurance are colossal, as they should be with the nature of his power. His physical strength, however, isn't anywhere near Luffy's level. Law IS cheating his way to that level. That's what hax means.

The higher up the tiers you go the more balanced your stats have to be. Once you are a top tier you can't rely on one trick phony things, like having an OP DF. In the lower tiers you can get away with this because no one is going to expose you, Enel is the perfect example of this.

Enel is not gonna touch high high tiers or top tiers because his other important stats aren't even close to the level they need to be at. Law can't cheat his way there otherwise he won't be a top tier as he'll just get exposed by everyone on his tier. Just like if Law's stats weren't generally in the same ballpark as others in his tier he would get exposed by high tiers as well.

Vandereich already addressed this. If it takes you all of your might, to the point that you're physically exhausted, just to make an Admiral budge, and you don't even do any damage, then you're not impressive. If it takes all your might to deflect a casual attack, then you're not impressive. If Usopp had unleashed his full strength and made Lucci stagger back without doing a bit of damage, would that be impressive? Because that's what Zoro did to Fujitora.

Lol except it didn't take all of Zoro's might to move Fujitora, he wasn't exhausted by the attack he sent flying, that was a pretty casual attack by Zoro, he was exhausted by fighting against the gravity that he was surprisingly put under.

So thanks for proving my point that it was impressive, since he used that attack while escaping the gravity hold at the same time and most of his energy went towards escaping the gravity, not launching the attack like in your example.

Doesn't change what happened. Attacks that Doflamingo were dodgin/tanking while weakened bruised Fuji. Notice you're avoiding the question of whether or not this happened.

Lol do you have problems reading? Is understanding text really difficult for you?

I already said for the past two replies that it does not matter what the difference is between Doflamingo and Fujitora as long as this statement remains "Fujitora > Doflamingo".

So the only reason you would have to keep babbling about the details is if you are trying to prove to me Doflamingo > Fujitora. Otherwise drop it.

 

[A v i]

I kinda like how people enjoy going "Maaaan, Zoro hasn't even gone all out yet. We haven't seen all of his feats" when you compare him to someone like, say, Law. But then when you're comparing Sanji to Zoro, suddenly the concept that we haven't seen Sanji go all out either doesn't apply.

As for the Robin thing, of course Robin's gigantic arms weren't affected by the water. The mass and volume of those arms would have caused them to be exponentially more dense than Robin's normal body. Robin's main body feels pain when the extensions/clones of her body are injured. This does not mean what can injure Robin's main body can injure the gigantic body parts because their density should be much more than Robin's.

I do recede the point though. Not because of Robin, but because those fodder from the ship Surume crushed were able to survive the depth.

People usually say Zoro's better than Sanji because his display was better than Sanji's whenever their were placed against opponents with similar strength. Sanji's portrayal so far doesn't even place him about Vergo when Zoro's feats are already up there with likes of Law and the guy has yet to go all out. What did Sanji say when he learned that Luffy's trained by Rayleigh? He with out a second thought implied that Luffy would be monstrously strong which we've already witnessed with our own eyes. Who's next on the line with another OP teacher? Aside form his status as one of top 3 fighters of the crew Sanji at this point has nothing to stand beside Luffy and Zoro.

No matter how durable or endurable Robins hands are; they can never be compared with someone like Sanji. So if they can withstand it without an trouble then so can Sanji and it by no means places Sanji above Zoro.

 

[Punk Hazard]

This is gonna be my last reply here as you have not provided anything new in these arguments.


haha what type of nonsense is this? Is anyone else reading this stuff? You just compared an injury that Usopp tanked to everything WB took before facing Teach and company. Lmfao sig worthy stuff.

Who said it had nothing to do with it? Do you want me to repeat myself, because you added nothing new to this. "and sure Nami handled it worse than Sanji would, but lol it was his own body, his own durability...........the body he spent two years training."

Sorry you're not using this as a fight changing excuse. Vergo being cheapshotted makes up for this injury that Usopp tanked anyways. His bodies durability and toughness doesn't just magically dissapear wth type of dumb logic is that?
Nami in Sanji's body got up before Usopp did.




Uh no Diable Jambe was a cheapshot before Vergo had known there was even a "fight" to begin with. Horrible analogy, not even close to the same thing.

If Luffy had cranked Lucci from behind with a g2 punch before the fight when Lucci was off guard, then you might have an argument.



And like I said it makes Sanji look even worse, because something Usopp tanked gave Sanji's body that much trouble where it carried over to a fight later on.


Ok then, ignore what brought her to that point.

nope not at all lol, you sound hurt though.



The higher up the tiers you go the more balanced your stats have to be. Once you are a top tier you can't rely on one trick phony things, like having an OP DF. In the lower tiers you can get away with this because no one is going to expose you, Enel is the perfect example of this.

Enel is not gonna touch high high tiers or top tiers because his other important stats aren't even close to the level they need to be at. Law can't cheat his way there otherwise he won't be a top tier as he'll just get exposed by everyone on his tier. Just like if Law's stats weren't generally in the same ballpark as others in his tier he would get exposed by high tiers as well.



Lol except it didn't take all of Zoro's might to move Fujitora, he wasn't exhausted by the attack he sent flying, that was a pretty casual attack by Zoro, he was exhausted by fighting against the gravity that he was surprisingly put under.

So thanks for proving my point that it was impressive, since he used that attack while escaping the gravity hold at the same time and most of his energy went towards escaping the gravity, not launching the attack like in your example.



Lol do you have problems reading? Is understanding text really difficult for you?

I already said for the past two replies that it does not matter what the difference is between Doflamingo and Fujitora as long as this statement remains "Fujitora > Doflamingo".

So the only reason you would have to keep babbling about the details is if you are trying to prove to me Doflamingo > Fujitora. Otherwise drop it.

Wow. You're actually like, really bad at this. You've actually deluded yourself into thinking that ignoring events and things explicitly stated in the manga to fit your narrative is how you debate. Goddamn.

People usually say Zoro's better than Sanji because his display was better than Sanji's whenever their were placed against opponents with similar strength.

After timeskip, this hasn't been the case. Against Pacifista? Equal portrayal. Against Fishmen Pirates? Equal.

Sanji's portrayal so far doesn't even place him about Vergo

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when Zoro's feats are already up there with likes of Law and the guy has yet to go all out

.
No they aren't. Zoro's cut against Pica wasn't anywhere near the scale of Law's cut on Punk Hazard.

What did Sanji say when he learned that Luffy's trained by Rayleigh? He with out a second thought implied that Luffy would be monstrously strong which we've already witnessed with our own eyes. Who's next on the line with another OP teacher? Aside form his status as one of top 3 fighters of the crew Sanji at this point has nothing to stand beside Luffy and Zoro.

So what? Is saying someone is monstrously strong supposed to mean the person saying it is not? Kizaru called Weeble monstrously strong as well, does that mean Kizaru is admitting Weeble's strength is above his?

Also, just point out exactly what I said earlier:

I kinda like how people enjoy going "Maaaan, Zoro hasn't even gone all out yet. We haven't seen all of his feats" when you compare him to someone like, say, Law. But then when you're comparing Sanji to Zoro, suddenly the concept that we haven't seen Sanji go all out either doesn't apply.

Zoro's feats are already up there with likes of Law and the guy has yet to go all out.

Sanji at this point has nothing to stand beside Luffy and Zoro.

When it's Zoro, people love to say "Man he hasn't even gone all out yet. He still has more feats to show, he just hasn't gotten the chance."

When it's Sanji, "Oh yeah Sanji is weaker, so weak. What, he hasn't gone all out either? He also has more feats to show and also hasn't gotten a chance to show them? Nah bro, Sanji is just weak."

 

[~Naruto&Itachi~]

I kinda like how people enjoy going "Maaaan, Zoro hasn't even gone all out yet. We haven't seen all of his feats" when you compare him to someone like, say, Law. But then when you're comparing Sanji to Zoro, suddenly the concept that we haven't seen Sanji go all out either doesn't apply.

??? what you on about mate?

 

[Punk Hazard]

??? what you on about mate?

Blasphemy to your Almighty lord and saviour Roronoa.

 

[xanonymosx]

No they aren't. Zoro's cut against Pica wasn't anywhere near the scale of Law's cut on Punk Hazard

I think some one like you knows that you need to provide an evident or else it`s just a BS you want to belive. but that unfortinatly ( for you ofc) does not make it right.

 

[~Naruto&Itachi~]

People usually say Zoro's better than Sanji because his display was better than Sanji's whenever their were placed against opponents with similar strength. Sanji's portrayal so far doesn't even place him about Vergo when Zoro's feats are already up there with likes of Law and the guy has yet to go all out. What did Sanji say when he learned that Luffy's trained by Rayleigh? He with out a second thought implied that Luffy would be monstrously strong which we've already witnessed with our own eyes. Who's next on the line with another OP teacher? Aside form his status as one of top 3 fighters of the crew Sanji at this point has nothing to stand beside Luffy and Zoro.

Opponents with similar strengths???
Vergo was much stronger than Pika.....without his DF, pika was kind of a fodder....especially his haki if zoro had gone against vergo, vergo would have mid diff him easily...also what feats puts him up with law? plz fill me in also when have we seen sanji go all out?? plz fill me in on that manga chapter....lastly have you forgotten that sanji was trained by one the commanders from the revs? sure it isn't mihawk but still commanders should be pretty strong if sabo beat burgess soo bad...

Blasphemy to your Almighty lord and saviour Roronoa.

How about you make an actual argument before coming at me with bullsh*t...

I think some one like you knows that you need to provide an evident or else it`s just a BS you want to belive. but that unfortinatly ( for you ofc) does not make it right.

so you think zoro's cut vs pica was as big as law's cut vs vergo?? lol you don't any "evident" to see how stupid that statement is....

 

[xanonymosx]

so you think zoro's cut vs pica was as big as law's cut vs vergo?? lol you don't any "evident" to see how stupid that statement is....

I dont care who is bigger law cut a a mountaian zoro cut a mountain the fact is they are comparable. the stupidty is trying to say that law`s cut was way bigger without posting any scale to support it and then stupidly saying that it deos not need an "evident" like you do

 

[~Naruto&Itachi~]

I dont care who is bigger law cut a a mountaian zoro cut a mountain the fact is they are comparable. the stupidty is trying to say that law`s cut was way bigger without posting any scale to support it and then stupidly saying that it deos not need an "evident" like you do

law's slash didn't cut a mountain....he ended up cutting an island....

 

[Punk Hazard]

I think some one like you knows that you need to provide an evident or else it`s just a BS you want to belive. but that unfortinatly ( for you ofc) does not make it right.

I'm trying to get someone who can count/scale the pixels.

How about you make an actual argument before coming at me with bullsh*t...

Read the rest of my posts and you'll find the arguments there.

I dont care who is bigger law cut a a mountaian zoro cut a mountain the fact is they are comparable. the stupidty is trying to say that law`s cut was way bigger without posting any scale to support it and then stupidly saying that it deos not need an "evident" like you do

Except the mountain Law cut was bigger. Comparable? Yes. On the same level? No.

 

[xanonymosx]

law's slash didn't cut a mountain....he ended up cutting an island....

I will give you a chance to edit this none sense and get some more sensable sh1t

Except the mountain Law cut was bigger. Comparable? Yes. On the same level? no.

comparable means they are on the same lvl stop embarassing your self and stop trying to go around the words you said :

No they aren't. Zoro's cut against Pica wasn't anywhere near the scale of Law's cut on Punk Hazard.

you just basiclly said the are not even comparable so you need to back it up with a scale or just shut up man

 

[Punk Hazard]

For I was asked, I shall deliver.

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Sanji was about 5 Pixels tall in that image. Sanji is 1.8 Meters tall.
5 pixels=1.8 M
1 pixel=.36 meters
The Fishman's diameter(below) was about 303 pixels.
Meter of Fishman below=303x.36 which yielded 109.08 meters. Sanji was able to burn a scale of 109 M at least, not counting the rest of the Fishman's flesh, mass and volume. His flames were able to span at least 109.08 meters away from his body, as we can measure.

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The Zoro-Pica scan was easier to work with.

Zoro is 1.81 meters tall and took up 16 pixels.
1.81 m=16 pixels
.113125 m=1 pixel
Pica's meters= .113125 times approx. 672 which yields 76.02 meters. Will work on the Law cut later on.

 

[A v i]

No they aren't. Zoro's cut against Pica wasn't anywhere near the scale of Law's cut on Punk Hazard.

First of all Law's slash wasn't as big as you're making it out to be; The mountain is just enveloping the facility so it can't be that big. Zoro's cut appears to be small because of the structure of the statue. In fact they're more or less equal in range. Compare the size of the cage that Luffy and others were imprisoned with Law's cut.

Spoiler

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The cage is nowhere near as big as an avg sized building as you can see here. [

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]
Now compare buildings which are far bigger than the cage with Pica's statue.

Spoiler

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They appears to be quite similar in size. The horizontal cut might be smaller but the vertical cut is clearly more or less equal to Law's slash.

After timeskip, this hasn't been the case. Against Pacifista? Equal portrayal. Against Fishmen Pirates? Equal. So what? Is saying someone is monstrously strong supposed to mean the person saying it is not? Kizaru called Weeble monstrously strong as well, does that mean Kizaru is admitting Weeble's strength is above his?

The portrayal against Pacifista is used to convey the fact that Zoro and Sanji still has that childish rivalry going on with in them and the portrayal at FMI is to show us that Zoro and Sanji has Luffy's back not to imply that they're equal in strength.

What about

Only Zoro and Luffy having panels dedicating to hype their strength right after their introduction at Sabaody?
Luffy and Zoro trashing iron bars at FMI?
Luffy and Zoro killing monsters under water?
Luffy and Zoro saving the crew members from spikes at PH?
Luffy and Zoro exchanging their opponents at FMI?
Only Luffy and Zoro having fully transformed opponents at PH?
Luffy and Zoro fighting same opponent at PH?
Luffy and Zoro stopping Pica from throwing a punch?
And I am sure you've already noticed how Zoro and Law are getting similar portrayal lately.

Am I using them to put Zoro beside Law or Luffy? No, because they're not meant to portray them as equals. Likewise Sanji's portrayal along with Zoro isn't meant to portray them as equal as their feats do not coincide with them being equals or near equals.

 

[Tobi98]

Spoiler

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Oda shouldn't have tried to play with angles lmfao

 

[A v i]

Opponents with similar strengths???
Vergo was much stronger than Pika.....without his DF, pika was kind of a fodder....especially his haki if zoro had gone against vergo, vergo would have mid diff him easily...also what feats puts him up with law? plz fill me in also when have we seen sanji go all out?? plz fill me in on that manga chapter....lastly have you forgotten that sanji was trained by one the commanders from the revs? sure it isn't mihawk but still commanders should be pretty strong if sabo beat burgess soo bad.so you think zoro's cut vs pica was as big as law's cut vs vergo?? lol you don't any "evident" to see how stupid that statement is....

When I said they're on similar level, I was talking about their overall strength. I don't even understand why people tend to disregard DF while talking about a character. 99% fruit users ends up being at less than half of their strength if you exclude their fruit powers. Zoro or any fighter for that matter has to get past Pica's fruit before finally being able to beat him. Vergo is definitely much better fighter than Pica as far as raw skills are concerned but Pica makes it up with his overpowered DF and the DC that comes along with his mastery over his fruit which is why I put them on same level.

There is no way to measure Pica's haki. Sure he wasn't hyped to be a haki specialist like Vergo but that doesn't make it a fodder material in any sense. Even Joker wasn't hyped to be a haki monster but that doesn't make his haki garbage, does it? Pica hyped his COA to be able to tank attacks that can level up mountains/hills (However you scale it) so he's not exactly a push over. Sure I can agree if you put Vergo above Pica but it's not cool to put him on a whole new level when you have no definitive evidence from manga. And I must ask you; On what basis did you came up with the conclusion that Vergo can mid dif Zoro? He doesn't have feats on Zoro's scale. He didn't display any feat suggesting that he can block mountain busting slashes. So how can you be so sure that he can mid dif Zoro?

I've never overlooked anything about Sanji; I've discussed this shit so many times that it'd be impossible for me to forgot panels involving Zoro or Sanji. Sanji's teacher is simply nowhere near Zoro's or Luffy's. Iva is commander level when Mihawk and Rayleigh are people that can stand beside Dragon.I've explained why Law's cut wasn't as big as people making it out to be in my quote above.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Compare the size of the cage that Luffy and others were imprisoned with Law's cut.

That's exactly what I'm doing.

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Smoker in Tashigi's body was sitting upright, and took up about 61 pixels in the upper body. Assuming Tashigi's upper body is half of her height, which is 1.71 meters. That's .885 meters=61 pixels.

61=.885
1 pixel=.0145081967 meters

The cage is 381 pixels across, making it about 5.5 meters long in that panel.

In the panel of Law's cut across the mountain, the cage is about 10 pixels.
10=5.5
1=.55 meters
The mountain range that is visible on-screen is 737 pixels in length in the panel of Law's cut. 737x.55=405 meters. And this is the length of the facility that's on-screen, not counting the width of it that we don't see because the panel cuts off, as well as the complete circumference of the cut(this is a fraction of the diameter).

 

[A v i]

That's exactly what I'm doing.

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Smoker in Tashigi's body was sitting upright, and took up about 61 pixels in the upper body. Assuming Tashigi's upper body is half of her height, which is 1.71 meters. That's .885 meters=61 pixels.

61=.885
1 pixel=.0145081967 meters

The cage is 381 pixels across, making it about 5.5 meters long in that panel.

In the panel of Law's cut across the mountain, the cage is about 10 pixels.
10=5.5
1=.55 meters
The mountain range that is visible on-screen is 737 pixels in length in the panel of Law's cut. 737x.55=405 meters. And this is the length of the facility that's on-screen, not counting the width of it that we don't see because the panel cuts off, as well as the complete circumference of the cut(this is a fraction of the diameter).

Zoro's size doesn't appears to be much different from the building on Pica's body in that panel which is obviously wrong. SO the scaling can't be done by comparing Zoro's size with that of Golem. I'd rather follow common sense than following this random scaling.We don't actually need scaling to be honest; anyone could clearly see the difference using very basic size comparisons.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Zoro's size doesn't appears to be much different from the building on Pica's body in that panel which is obviously wrong. SO the scaling can't be done by comparing Zoro's size with that of Golem. I'd rather follow common sense than following this random scaling.We don't actually need scaling to be honest; anyone could clearly see the difference using very basic size comparisons.

*shrugs* I don't give care. Someone asked me to provide a scale, so I did. You then said do the same with the building, and I did. Make of it whatever you want to.

 

[ToshiZO]

You realize that Zoro was closer to our point of view than Pica's midsection right? So Zoro's scale in that scan wouldn't work as he appears much larger than he actually is.

Not to mention Oda is inconsistent with his scale he tried to work with angles and it came out that way.