we are probably going to have to see them i mean a lieutenant in vandereich is able to hold of ichigo so imagine how powerful those star warriors or whatever the were called would be, it will probably end up as 2 captains to every one of those star warriors or whatever and then zero division getting the rest or something
[Predictions] Zero Squad
- Thread starter sammypt Miyamoto Musashi
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StrifeMaccy
Member
for all we know the lieutenent is just shy of being strong enough to be a star knight, and the vandenreich king might of overly underestimated ichigo or overrated his man, and ichigo will kick his head in
Hmm I believe Zero squad will get involved but to be honest out of all the characters mentioned who would be Zero squad we know the captain before Urahara is in it but who else?
Anyway I wouldn't count Ichigo out yet I mean his progress rate is better than anyone else's.
He went from getting his ass kicked by Grimmjow to being stronger than Aizen in less than 6 months.
While Renji and most likely all the other captains would still get beat of Aizen now after 17 months of training.
Ichigo will probably get a lot stronger as he fights.
Anyway I wouldn't count Ichigo out yet I mean his progress rate is better than anyone else's.
He went from getting his ass kicked by Grimmjow to being stronger than Aizen in less than 6 months.
While Renji and most likely all the other captains would still get beat of Aizen now after 17 months of training.
Ichigo will probably get a lot stronger as he fights.
Green Hood
Member
You raise a valid point, but I disagree
Even if only the Lieutenants made noticeable progress, that still doesn't put Ichigo on the Captains' level.
Sure, he has the reiatsu to be labeled as "Captain-class" or whatnot, but that's a far cry from actually being in their league. It's like comparing an amateur street fighter to a professional MMA martial artist. Ichigo may be able to win his fights, but he's just not up to their standard.
For example,:
- Ichigo cannot do close-quarter combat. If he were to fight someone like Soi Fong (and obviously Yoruichi) he'd lose.
- Ichigo knows nothing of Kido, which means he can't counter any. Had he gone up against Zommari, or Byakuya again, he would lose.
- Ichigo isn't nearly a genius as Mayuri is. Even if Mayuri isn't a combat-type of Shinigami, he would still find some scary way to walk out of a battle against Ichigo
Hitsugaya may be the rookie Captain of the Gotei 13, but that was before he even mastered his Bankai which he now has. Not to mention he's proclaimed a genius by the Gotei 13 and who Kyoraku claimed would surpass even him in a mere (relatively speaking) 100 years.
Don't get me wrong, Ichigo has high reiatsu and his inner Hollow which make him powerful, but if you take a step back and ask yourself if Ichigo would make a decent replacement for any of the Captains he just wouldn't fit, and I'm not talking about responsibility issues or that kinda stuff.
You even said it yourself, that Captains have been around for over +100 years. Some for even a couple hundred to a thousand years. Had it not been for Ichigo's FGT (major plot device) he would have died along with everyone else. No matter what kinds of power he gains he can't make up for 100+ (bare minimum) of high-class training and experience. His FGT was an exception, but that's not something he can do again.
It's not just about sheer reiatsu. Ichigo has apparently double the reiatsu of a Captain which was enough to shock even Unohana, but Unohaha could still easily bend Ichigo over and probe him like a stuffed animal
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You raise a valid point, but I disagree
Even if only the Lieutenants made noticeable progress, that still doesn't put Ichigo on the Captains' level.
Sure, he has the reiatsu to be labeled as "Captain-class" or whatnot, but that's a far cry from actually being in their league. It's like comparing an amateur street fighter to a professional MMA martial artist. Ichigo may be able to win his fights, but he's just not up to their standard.
For example,:Aside from those 3, there are the 4 Veterans and the 3 ex-Vizards who are clearly stronger than Ichigo (considering they each have hundreds of years of experience and the latter 3 having inner Hollows just like Ichigo). As well as Kenpachi, Komamura, and Hitsugaya.
- Ichigo cannot do close-quarter combat. If he were to fight someone like Soi Fong (and obviously Yoruichi) he'd lose.
- Ichigo knows nothing of Kido. Had he gone up against Zommari, or Byakuya again, he would lose.
- Ichigo isn't nearly a genius as Mayuri is. Even if Mayuri isn't a combat-type of Shinigami, he would still find some scary way to walk out of a battle against Ichigo
Hitsugaya may be the rookie Captain of the Gotei 13, but that was before he even mastered his Bankai which he now has. Not to mention he's proclaimed a genius by the Gotei 13 and who Kyoraku claimed would surpass even him in a mere (relatively speaking) 100 years.
Don't get me wrong, Ichigo has high reiatsu and his inner Hollow which make him powerful, but if you take a step back and ask yourself if Ichigo would make a decent replacement for any of the Captains he just wouldn't fit, and I'm not talking about responsibility issues or that kinda stuff.
You even said it yourself, that Captains have been around for over +100 years. Some for even a couple hundred to a thousand years. Had it not been for Ichigo's FGT he would have died along with everyone else. No matter what kinds of power he gains he can't make up for 100+ (bare minimum) of high-class training and experience. His FGT was an exception, but that's not something he can do again.
It's not just about sheer reiatsu. Ichigo has apparently double the reiatsu of a Captain which was enough to shock even Unohana, but Unohaha could still easily bend Ichigo over and probe him like a stuffed animal
I agree with some of this but some I don't,
I agree Ichigo does not know a lot of kido or anything else but even does
Kenpachi but he still beat Tousen (Back in soul society) granted Tousen never used Kido however it would be safe to presume Tousen was formidable in Kido so you can't really decide who wins a fight with this factor I guess the point of this paragraph is that even if Ichigo doesn't know Kido it doesn't mean he would lose to someone who did.
Anyway I wouldn't say Ichigo can't do close quarter fights throughout the show he had always showed good hand to hand skills.
Mayuri maybe a genius but that means nothing Aizen was a genius as well but Ichigo trolled him so did Uryuu all it really takes is a surprise move or tactic and the fight could go either way to be honest.
Also having experience doesn't really matter that much since if that was the case Ichigo wouldn't have beaten Renji when he had only 10 days of training while Renji had a quite a few decades on him.
Anyway my next point is Ichigo's Bankai it is a compression so it makes his form faster and stronger people like Komamura would struggle and most likely lose against him, also Byakuya vs Ichigo to me is 50-50 yeah Byakuya has awesome skills but as tsukima ( the guy who changed peoples memory) said the way to beat Byakuya shikai and bankai is charging towards him not backing away which with the powers of Ichigo's bankai he would be able to do but Byakuya is awesome and I'm sure he would counter it somehow so it would be a really close fight.
When people say Hitsugaya is a genius because he's a captain at a young age and somewhat it confuses me slightly to become a captain it's said you need to achieve bankai or defeat another captain well Ichigo did both of these skills in 13 - 16 days and to be honest I see Ichigo surpassing Kyoraku in less than 100 years most likely due to plot but still.
Ichigo's spirit pressure has been captains level ever since his fight with Kenpachi and I would go as far to say his spirit pressure his higher or the same as that of Byakuya not including responsibility and that I would say Ichigo would make a fine replacement captain.
Also granted if it wasn't for his FGT he would be dead so what? it's his move Tensa Zengatsu taught him it why not use it, it's like saying Rukia is not aloud to use any of her dances, the fact is when Ichigo does use FGT he does lose his shinigami powers however he does become more powerful than any of the present shinigami (Captains etc.)
As it says in the manga Ichigo's spirit pressure is or was way higher than a normal captains and the only reason Ichigo was frightened of Unohana was because it's an ongoing joke Kubo has where Ichigo is frightened of the smile she does a lot of the other characters are I mean Hiyori slaps Shinji around but that doesn't mean she's stronger than him it's the same way with Ise and Lisa with Kyoraku they hit him and making him pale but I'm certain he could beat them both.
Anyway I agree with some of the Vizards being stronger than Ichigo.
If thats a possibility then its also possible that with this new arc there will finally be a new Hollow ichigo, hopefully he can control this one better then the last but i have to say he looked smexy...plus if they ( zero squad) didn't intrude then there is no need to even watch this arc since it does take place in heco mundo
My point isn't the fact that you can win entire fights using Kido. It's that it helps greatly in battle if you know how to use it. Ichigo has never shown efficient hand to hand skills. He would not last in a close combat fight. And Ichigo is no genius/prodigy. The advantages that he will inevitably get in this final arc due to plot does not mean he's as talented with natural born skill like Hitsugaya - a true prodigy in the Bleach universe. It's a completely flawed and skewed comparison.
It looks like you looked into specific parts in my post, which means you missed my main point.
My point isn't about a certain battle here or there. My bullet points were minor examples to show the fact that it's not about sheer reiatsu. There's more to it than who has the biggest battery.
The fact that Ichigo has enough reiatsu to be considered Captain-class doesn't mean the same as saying he's as "strong" as they are. There are other factors that go into judging a Shinigami's (as well as anyone's) overall strength.
Renji, by reiatsu terms anyways, was also a Captain-class Shinigami before the Blood War Arc. That doesn't mean he's up to their par. Why? Because he lacks prowess in various areas that sum up any Shinigami's overall strength. Things like zanpaktou mastery, ability to analyze your opponent and plan in the heat of battle, etc. And going back to my original post, even something like Kido can aid you greatly. Byakuya doesn't use it all the time, but even one here and there can change the tides of battle if it's well placed. A small example is when he used his Sokatsui to disrupt Renji's Bankai. Was this a big bold killshot? No. But the point is he had enough knowledge to realize that a spell like that would be enough to disrupt the workings of his Bankai in the smallest way but to an enormous effect.
Again, no, my point isn't the fact that Byakuya beat Renji. That's obvious how much more powerful he was. My point is little things like analytic ability and being able to think and formulate plans in mid-battle is one of the many things that contribute to how "strong" a Shinigami is. A term that is often misinterpreted.
Which leads me back to my original analogy because that's really as clear as I can possibly put it. Comparing Ichigo to the Gotei 13 Captains is like comparing an amateur street fighter to a professional MMA martial artist. Ichigo can fight well and is a force to be reckoned with, but with all his strengths he still lacks so much. He is just not up to their standard.
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kotoamatsukami
Active member
wat destroy the 1st division from wat i see yamamoto aint get touched they all would have died if the tried to fight him....every body holds off ichigo 4 some time....he is not stronger than the captains mabey on the same level but not stronger..some of the lieutenants of the 13 court guard squads r probly on ichigo level at the moment cuz they have been training the hole time ichigo was with out his powers.....zero squad not needed but they will come anyway.
they still have ichigo of course he will get there also have...kiskie,youroichi,ichigo dad,the rest of shenji visard group..grimjaw might come out of no were......an if there lucky uryu an his dad may show up to help or will they help the bad guys i wonder.
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To be honest this is just going to be agreeing to disagree.
I see your point with fighting skills however I disagree with the fact your saying Ichigo does not have them yeah it's plot that;s making him stronger but there's no helping that, at the end of the day neither of us could provide proof that when it comes to fighting say-
Ichigo vs Hitsugaya - We couldn't provide proof who would win since it would be pointless to argue about it.
Ichigo has proven himself several times throughout the show he can stand toe to toe with captains.
He defeated Kenpachi while still in shikai I know it was plot but still that's a captain.
I know what your saying with Renji but I never said Renji was at captain level sure he learnt Bankai but he is still lacking this shows with his battle with Byakuya, he was defeated by Byakuya bankai almost instantly, while when Ichigo vs Byakuya if he wanted to Ichigo could have killed Byakuya when he was underestimated but that wasn't what Ichigo wanted.
Yes I agree Kido does aid you in battle but it doesn't mean you will win just because you have it Ichigo proved this when he was able to swipe away a level 90 Kido which had full incarnation I know you'll probably say it was because of the FGT but still that would not be the point the fact is was he able to fight and defeat an opponent while they where using Kido.
Finally Ichigo may not be like Byakuya in analyzing an opponents skill but his talent is shown in the heat of the battle and learns more about his opponent as he fights.
Now to my point yes granted Ichigo lacks some skills some captains have but nobody is perfect in that area.
Toshiro is angered far to easily and charges in without thinking, Kenpachi likes to fight and will disobey orders in order just to have decent challenge there are plenty of more flaws in the other captains I'm just to lazy to put them.
So all I'm saying is Ichigo is just as good as the captains in battle and I'm not saying he is just captain class because he has captain class spiritual pressure.
Anyway as I said where probably going we would probably end up going back and forth with arguments so after this post I'm going to stop arguing my case and say I respect your arguments but I don't agree with them.
SasukexNeji
Active member
I have a feeling when all hope is lost for SS and their death toll rises exponentially...ZS will come and we're all going to say... "OOOMMMGGG....they're here!!!!!!!!!"
