Zabuza VS Kimimaro

[Chaosmark101]

EZQ. What happened to this? Iirc both had intel in that thread too.

"Kimmi wins med high diff, and haku is almost a non factor here, those needles can't even scracth Kimmimaro's bones. Zabuza could use the mist to hide himself and aproach with clone feints to let kimmi fall into a trap, but after that he would try to decapitate him and his sword would be stopped by kimmi's bones, and he can't drown him with water prison either since he can grow bones from his back and destroy it along with Zabuza's hand.

Kimmi wins by default"

 

[Curse Mark]

He was able to tell in detail what Kakashi did on it.v(If you remember the scan of Zabuza explaining how he realized Kakashi switched with a water clone then it saves me the trouble).

I said perfectly refering to there won't be problem on seeing the bones coming form underground.



Lee is really fast. He's not faster than Zabuza on part 1.



Reflexes, reactions and agility are all upgraded when they reach jonnin level. There are a lot of examples. Hell, Kakashi without even taking off his headband was able to intercept rasengan and chidori from Naruto's and Sasuke's rists, who both where running so fast that they couldn't stop to not kill sakura. And again, Lee is not faster than Zabuza on part 1.



All assumptions. Why wouldn't he want to make sure they both died if he already knew how strong gaara was?

Things that could've happened:

-He came out to surface on a different point, located them and then used his "mayflay" kind of ability
-He just came out at the location Gaara was before the attack, to make sure he's dead

Things that most likely didn't happen:

-Kimmimaro having sensing abilities when it hasn't been showed or mentioned.



Adressed

You're exactly right- all the possibilities you offered were all assumptions.

 

[EZQ]

You're exactly right- all the possibilities you offered were all assumptions.

The bias here is obvious when the one who made assumptions is not me, and i tried to explain what happened according to what we know from the manga.

 

[EZQ]

EZQ. What happened to this? Iirc both had intel in that thread too.

"Kimmi wins med high diff, and haku is almost a non factor here, those needles can't even scracth Kimmimaro's bones. Zabuza could use the mist to hide himself and aproach with clone feints to let kimmi fall into a trap, but after that he would try to decapitate him and his sword would be stopped by kimmi's bones, and he can't drown him with water prison either since he can grow bones from his back and destroy it along with Zabuza's hand.

Kimmi wins by default"

If i remember right that was healthy kimmimaro. I changed my mind on the water prison and then changed my mind back because someone convinced me on this thread i think it was exaar.

Healthy Kimmi wouldn't die after using bone forest so Zabuza would lose (who probably wouldn't come out unscratched from the bone forest since if he finds a spot between the bones he would still get some damage because of the side sharp spikes.

EDIT: If the one on that previous thread is sick kimmi then i must say i just changed my mind, Zabuza beats sick kimmi

 

[Tantalus Thief]

Kimi wins mid diff at best

 

[Exaar]

He was able to tell in detail what Kakashi did on it.v(If you remember the scan of Zabuza explaining how he realized Kakashi switched with a water clone then it saves me the trouble)

Zabuza has normal eyes, If he can see clearly so can others. He hasn't any special eye to give him vision that others do not have. If a Dojutsu cannot see perfectly in the mist, Zabuza's normal eyes sure as hell cannot either.

While he had his "v1" mist active even naruto could see in the mist enough to yell at kakashi that zabuza was behind him and neither Naruto/Sasuke nor Sakura's vision was heavily impaired at close range

Lee is really fast. He's not faster than Zabuza on part 1.

Gated he is easily.

Reflexes, reactions and agility are all upgraded when they reach jonnin level. There are a lot of examples. Hell, Kakashi without even taking off his headband was able to intercept rasengan and chidori from Naruto's and Sasuke's rists, who both where running so fast that they couldn't stop to not kill sakura. And again, Lee is not faster than Zabuza on part 1.

Naruto and sasuke were not running, Sasuke was simply falling out of the air and naruto jumped towards him, They couldn't stop their own momentum in mid air. If they were moving so fast then they would of easily clashed long before slow as sakura could get there.

 

[Curse Mark]

The bias here is obvious when the one who made assumptions is not me, and i tried to explain what happened according to what we know from the manga.

As did we. The bias is real.

Zabuza has normal eyes, If he can see clearly so can others. He hasn't any special eye to give him vision that others do not have. If a Dojutsu cannot see perfectly in the mist, Zabuza's normal eyes sure as hell cannot either.

While he had his "v1" mist active even naruto could see in the mist enough to yell at kakashi that zabuza was behind him and neither Naruto/Sasuke nor Sakura's vision was heavily impaired at close range



Gated he is easily.



Naruto and sasuke were not running, Sasuke was simply falling out of the air and naruto jumped towards him, They couldn't stop their own momentum in mid air. If they were moving so fast then they would of easily clashed long before slow as sakura could get there.

Unweighted Lee runs circles around Zabuza.

 

[EZQ]

Zabuza has normal eyes, If he can see clearly so can others. He hasn't any special eye to give him vision that others do not have. If a Dojutsu cannot see perfectly in the mist, Zabuza's normal eyes sure as hell cannot either.

Bad logic, Zabuza is an expert in sillent killing and hiding in the mist. He knows how to move unnoticed. So no, i'm not giving him vision that others do not have. He simply hides in the mist from the others, but doesn't lose the focus on the opponent. Hence why Kakashi could not see where Zabuza was even with sharingan, while Zabuza was following Kakahsi's moves carefully.

While he had his "v1" mist active even naruto could see in the mist enough to yell at kakashi that zabuza was behind him and neither Naruto/Sasuke nor Sakura's vision was heavily impaired at close range

Yes, Naruto could see in the mist, because Zabuza was not hiding. Zabuza's ambush was against Kakashi, and it was performed without mistakes.

Kimmimaro won't have someone to yell at him.

Still you're not understanding how sillent killing works. Zabuza won't go cut him at close range. He'd stay hidden and then ambush like he ambushed Kakashi. Ofc Kimmimaro would see him, but just when Zabuza is close to him.

Anyways irrelevant, with this knowledge Zabuza won't approach kimmimaro to cut him.

Gated he is easily.

And? Lee without gates was already faster than gaara's sand, by a long gap.

Naruto and sasuke were not running, Sasuke was simply falling out of the air and naruto jumped towards him, They couldn't stop their own momentum in mid air. If they were moving so fast then they would of easily clashed long before slow as sakura could get there.

True. Still there are other examples-

 

[EZQ]

As did we. The bias is real.



Unweighted Lee runs circles around Zabuza.

CE Sasuke is as fast as unweightened lee. Unless you're suggesting p1 Sasuke is faster than adult Kakashi who was outspeeded by Zabuza, this doesn't make sense.

 

[Curse Mark]

Kakashi couldn't see in the mist because the sharingan was blinded. How does anyone not know this?

 

[EZQ]

Kakashi couldn't see in the mist because the sharingan was blinded. How does anyone not know this?

Lol, sharingan was what saved him. You state he couldn't see in the mist, but yet he copied Zabuza's water clone in the middle of it. And yet, he says he can't use his shringan "perfectly" but still he could use it.

He says his reactions were slowed down because of the mist, not that they were removed at all. Sharingan was still working.

If Kakashi didn't have sharingan he'd have been descimated.

 

[Chaosmark101]

If i remember right that was healthy kimmimaro. I changed my mind on the water prison and then changed my mind back because someone convinced me on this thread i think it was exaar.

Healthy Kimmi wouldn't die after using bone forest so Zabuza would lose (who probably wouldn't come out unscratched from the bone forest since if he finds a spot between the bones he would still get some damage because of the side sharp spikes.

EDIT: If the one on that previous thread is sick kimmi then i must say i just changed my mind, Zabuza beats sick kimmi

Just checked, it was "healthy" Kimi. & Why would Sick Kimi die from using Bone forest when he did so just fine against Gaara & Lee in canon. Regardless I'll read the arguments & see. I don't see Zabuza being able to do anything with bone forest up. And or severely harming Kimi who goes CM1 & beyond.

 

[EZQ]

Just checked, it was "healthy" Kimi. & Why would Sick Kimi die from using Bone forest when he did so just fine against Gaara & Lee in canon. Regardless I'll read the arguments & see. I don't see Zabuza being able to do anything with bone forest up. And or severely harming Kimi who goes CM1 & beyond.

By canon healthy kimi dies after using bone forest.

Bone forest is used:

-If Zabuza finds a safespot between the bones then Kimmi starts the regressive time tic tac tic tac (clock sounds)
-Kimmi still can't find Zabuza
-Kimmi dies Zabuza wins.

With this knowledge, none of them can hurt the other.

 

[Curse Mark]

Lol, sharingan was what saved him. You state he couldn't see in the mist, but yet he copied Zabuza's water clone in the middle of it. And yet, he says he can't use his shringan "perfectly" but still he could use it.

He says his reactions were slowed down because of the mist, not that they were removed at all. Sharingan was still working.

If Kakashi didn't have sharingan he'd have been descimated.

The sharingan perceived the mist all as one thick colored chakra. That's why he said it wasn't working properly or whatever. Because the further away he was the less he could see.

By canon healthy kimi dies after using bone forest.

Bone forest is used:

-If Zabuza finds a safespot between the bones then Kimmi starts the regressive time tic tac tic tac (clock sounds)
-Kimmi still can't find Zabuza
-Kimmi dies Zabuza wins.

With this knowledge, none of them can hurt the other.

Lol.
Kimi used a massive bone forrest
Kimi traveled through the bones
Kimi used his second strongest attack again
Kimi then began to die.

 

[EZQ]

Delusional. Kimmimaro died seconds after the bone forest.

And this time it's even worse since he'd have to waste more time finding Zabuza

 

[Chaosmark101]

By canon healthy kimi dies after using bone forest.

Bone forest is used:

-If Zabuza finds a safespot between the bones then Kimmi starts the regressive time tic tac tic tac (clock sounds)
-Kimmi still can't find Zabuza
-Kimmi dies Zabuza wins.

With this knowledge, none of them can hurt the other.

Lol what? Healthy Kimi? dies after Bone forest? You mean sick Kimi who was literally on borrowed time and fought for a good while against Naruto, Lee, & then Gaara.

Lets please try to remember that Kimi just survived being crushed by Sand Coffin & Sand Tsunami 2 chapters before. If Kimi goes CM2 doesn't try to just rush and stab him with the bone flower like he attempted against Gaara in 216 that allows him more time. He could just erect the enormous bone forrest which Gaara and Lee needed flight to evade

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. Another example of it's scale [

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] Zabuza would definitely be skewered given that not even lee could sunshine away in time.

Also where would Zabuza go? He's going to get impaled. Can't hide underground like Kakashi (even then thats a bad idea.) His sword isn't carving him a spot for breathing room. And Kimi can

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once he spots Zabuza and kills him. He won't be able to defend himself at all surrounded by the density of bones.

 

[Exaar]

Lol what? Healthy Kimi? dies after Bone forest? You mean sick Kimi who was literally on borrowed time and fought for a good while against Naruto, Lee, & then Gaara.

Lets please try to remember that Kimi just survived being crushed by Sand Coffin & Sand Tsunami 2 chapters before. If Kimi goes CM2 doesn't try to just rush and stab him with the bone flower like he attempted against Gaara in 216 that allows him more time. He could just erect the enormous bone forrest which Gaara and Lee needed flight to evade

You must be registered for see links

. Another example of it's scale [

You must be registered for see links

] Zabuza would definitely be skewered given that not even lee could sunshine away in time.

Also where would Zabuza go? He's going to get impaled. Can't hide underground like Kakashi (even then thats a bad idea.) His sword isn't carving him a spot for breathing room. And Kimi can

You must be registered for see links

once he spots Zabuza and kills him. He won't be able to defend himself at all surrounded by the density of bones.

He is heavily biased towards zabuza, That much is clear.

He had no evidence that Zabuza can even dodge bone Forrest since zabuza himself cannot see it coming only hear it, and even then he failed to even dodged Kakashi's summoning, Let alone a massive forrest of bones poping up everywhere

 

[Chaosmark101]

He is heavily biased towards zabuza, That much is clear.

He had no evidence that Zabuza can even dodge bone Forrest since zabuza himself cannot see it coming only hear it, and even then he failed to even dodged Kakashi's summoning, Let alone a massive forrest of bones poping up everywhere

That much is clear. Lets see what he comes up to counter bone forest.

 

[Ripple Hole]

Gotta give the props to Zabuza, I doubt Kimi can fight what he cannot hear nor see.
We already know how shitty he is when he fights against characters that he cannot
predict(Lee), now let's throw in the fact that he can't even see Zabuza much less predict.

Zabuza mid difs, worst case scenario.

 

[Curse Mark]

Gotta give the props to Zabuza, I doubt Kimi can fight what he cannot hear nor see.
We already know how shitty he is when he fights against characters that he cannot
predict(Lee), now let's throw in the fact that he can't even see Zabuza much less predict.

Zabuza mid difs, worst case scenario.

Are you seriously trying to compare drunken fist to Zabuza? Wtf is unpredictable about a technique that has no real depth and is all linear attacks?