You people underestimate sage mode.

[Shadow Phantasm]

Gtfo! Everyone is always running on about Naruto using borrowed power, sit down.

EMS is borrowed power. Kurama was given to Naruto, thus meaning it's not borrowed power then.

Dude,who the f*ck cares?Borrowed power,given power,stolen power.....it's all the same.

 

[Naijakid]

Why bring Madara into this?This is about Naruto and his SM.

My bad.......XD

 

[AlastorNazura17]

PS isn't borrowed. ohnooki's strongest jinton didn't even scratch it

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Would be blind without using his brother eyes. PS= Borrowed power.

People say that it was "given" to him, thus it's not borrowed power. Kurama was given to Naruto, which makes it his own power to then? If so, then glad we came to an understanding.

 

[AlastorNazura17]

Dude,who the f*ck cares?Borrowed power,given power,stolen power.....it's all the same.

Who cares? The guys who always bash Naruto talking about he's using "borrowed power", if you'd actually read what I say, you'd see I'm trying to defend him using the power. They always /only/ bash Naruto about when most of the Uchiha's use "borrowed power".

 

[Raekwon26]

Borrowed power?

Do people even know what the term 'borrowed' even means?

 

[AGoodBoy]

If Sage mode was all that, then Naruto should stop using the Kyuubi's power and use his own Sage mode then.

What you, and a lot of other people, need to understand is that Kyuubi's power is sage mode. Kyuubi gather's his power from nature because he, and the other bijuu, are the embodiment of nature. They're from the juubi which is the creator of blah blah blah you know the story. The point I'm getting at is that using the kyuubi is like using Sage mode at a capacity that surpasses what your body can hold. Now, you're not using the power of nature that's limited to your body, you're using the power of nature that's now limited to the kyuubi's body. What I'm getting at is this...

With sage mode; the senjutsu energy must = your chakra capacity otherwise shit goes down. Furthermore, with Sage mode, the more sage energy you have, the stronger you are - which can be seen by fukasaku lifting the statue after gathering a butt load of senjutsu chakra. With using a bijuu, the senjutsu energy( which has been transformed into a source of chakra by the beast ) no longer needs to = your chakra capacity. You now have a massive storage of energy in storage that you can tap into... Hence why naruto basically gets all the benefits of sage mode but in a far far more powerful state - because he's now using an amount of sage energy that far exceed what his body can hold.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Who cares? The guys who always bash Naruto talking about he's using "borrowed power", if you'd actually read what I say, you'd see I'm trying to defend him using the power. They always /only/ bash Naruto about when most of the Uchiha's use "borrowed power".

They have a point though,Naruto relies on Kurama for everything which makes his fightning style too contricted,however Uchiha aren't borrowing powers since it's part of their blood.

 

[-Spoiler-]

They have a point though,Naruto relies on Kurama for everything which makes his fightning style too contricted,however Uchiha aren't borrowing powers since it's part of their blood.

yamato was the only one that try to get naruto to stop using the kyuubi power since part 1 jiraiya was trying to teach him to control it, minato wanted him to use the kyuubi power, why useless would he seal it in him if he didnt want him use it?

 

[Raekwon26]

yamato was the only one that try to get naruto to stop using the kyuubi power since part 1 jiraiya was trying to teach him to control it, minato wanted him to use the kyuubi power, why useless would he seal it in him if he didnt want him use it?

So.............? It's still borrowed.

 

[Netferarri]

First of all, he didn't beat the third raikage. He would have died many times if it weren't for those people. and second. Yeah he is pretty strong no doubt about that: But he's only mid kage level at best. Don't overrate him as well. ​

 

[-Spoiler-]

So.............? It's still borrowed.

yes just like every other power occupying madara's body at the moment and power's he's trying to optain

 

[Raekwon26]

yes just like every other power occupying madara's body at the moment and power's he's trying to optain

What has Madara got to do with this?

Let me guess, you mentioned him because of my Avatar and Sig right?

Fact is, your upset response is because you see borrowed power as a weakness and that's why it's so easy for you guys to get upset when people say Naruto uses borrowed power.

 

[-Spoiler-]

What has Madara got to do with this?

Let me guess, you mentioned him because of my Avatar and Sig right?

Fact is, your upset response is because you see borrowed power as a weakness and that's why it's so easy for you guys to get upset when people say Naruto uses borrowed power.

no actually is not the fact that i have any problem with you , borrowed power or madara its just that fact that its seem to be a problem on this based to be the kyuubi jin, no one had a problem with him being a jin when he couldnt handle and went on rampage, no one has a problem with the fact that gaara hasnt used one move that's not derived from the power shukaku grant him, never seen a single juubito or killer bee borrowed power thread but since naruto mastered KCM that power has been the biggest problem, isnt that the purpose of jins?

 

[Raekwon26]

no actually is not the fact that i have any problem with you , borrowed power or madara its just that fact that its seem to be a problem on this based to be the kyuubi jin, no one had a problem with him being a jin when he couldnt handle and went on rampage, no one has a problem with the fact that gaara hasnt used one move that's not derived from the power shukaku grant him, never seen a single juubito or killer bee borrowed power thread but since naruto mastered KCM that power has been the biggest problem, isnt that the purpose of jins?

What?

1. Stop trying to be shrewd. You brought up Madara because of my avatar and sig.

2. Plenty of people have had a problem with Naruto and the Kyuubi since the Neji fight in the Chunin exams. So that's a clear falasey.

3. Do you know why they have a problem with Naruto and not Gaara or Bee or any other? This is why. How can this manga preach hard work, dedication, never give up and all that other BS when case in point YOU just said Minato put power inside of Naruto for him to master and have? It defeats the whole purpose and meaning this Manga was supposedly built on.

What makes it even more funny is that SM was completely thrown to the side when Kishi created KCM and BM. Showing that really, it was all about Kurama.

Also, the purpose of Jins was for peace purposes and equality amongst the nations, not war purposes. That only happened becuase of how corrupt the Shinobi world became.

 

[slaton02]

SM is great but the feats people like the OP give it is wrong. He only defeated the 3rd Raikage because he was given info and Kabuto was controlling him not trying to kill Naruto. The attack he did was even more easy to dodge cause he was aiming at Naruto's shoulder, even then Naruto barely dodged t now imagine if he tried to stab his torso idt Naruto would've dodged it.

SM Jiraiya> SM Naruto. Jiraiya had no info on pain a fought 1 at a time till 3 and then they all showed up. Naruto had full info Deva path handicapped, with the whole Toad family from the start even than Naruto had to be saved. If you truly compare SM Naruto(no kyuubi) to SM Jiraiya you would see why Jiraiya > Naruto. SM Naruto is low Kage

 

[xcoyote]

Didnt the whole SA leech from Kurama at one point?
Aww shit,Kurama is the sole reason the SA stood a chance in the first place.
Dont hate the player,hate the game.
edit:
@Raekwon Kishimoto didnt screw his story at all.
Minato's dying wish when he sealed the fox was Naruto learning to utilize the beast's chakra which he did.
His parents died for that preparing everything for him via their chakra to become a Perfect Jin.
Naruto and Kurama are one,they cant be separated.
Naruto is a Jinchuriki and was running away from that fact,only after he met his father and mother he decided to accept what he is.

 

[-Spoiler-]

What?

1. Stop trying to be shrewd. You brought up Madara because of my avatar and sig.

2. Plenty of people have had a problem with Naruto and the Kyuubi since the Neji fight in the Chunin exams. So that's a clear falasey.

3. Do you know why they have a problem with Naruto and not Gaara or Bee or any other? This is why. How can this manga preach hard work, dedication, never give up and all that other BS when case in point YOU just said Minato put power inside of Naruto for him to master and have? It defeats the whole purpose and meaning this Manga was supposedly built on.

What makes it even more funny is that SM was completely thrown to the side when Kishi created KCM and BM. Showing that really, it was all about Kurama.

Also, the purpose of Jins was for peace purposes and equality amongst the nations, not war purposes. That only happened becuase of how corrupt the Shinobi world became.

i brought up madara because its the exact same thing, the guy has a dude face imprinted in his chest, injected another blood into him then you want to talk about borrowed power?

and what hard work and dedication did gaara do? he had the sand power used since sealed in him, its listed as him having wind nature and i never seen one wind jutsu from him only the shukaku, the dude defeated the kyuubi fair and square and took the power by force thats more work than gaara had done for power.

yet thats why SM has not only be featured in the war and combined with the cloak it was the only the effective way to deal with the juubi

dont give me that peace crap that might have been the purpose hashirama wanted them for but after that the were always used for war purpose,
e.g mist sealing sanbi in rin for the sole purpose of her returning to konoha and losing control.

 

[xxSAGExx]

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^^ SM Naruto ^^

Naruto beat pain due to having 100% FULL INTEL and Pain having 0% intel

Well if you read the chapters before that then you know Naruto was talking about Sasuke's "Current level" as in EMS. He read Sasuke's mind and saw what Sasuke planned to do, when Sasuke was in front of him he said he'll take him on anytime. When Naruto said "his current level", Sasuke already was getting Itachi's eyes.

People say that Naruto is weak without Kurama and that he is high jonin level at best. You are underestimating him too much. In sage mode alone, he was able to defeat the third raikage and Kurama. Also, he is much stronger than Kakashi in sage mode. Kakashi actually stated that Naruto surpassed him when he learned rasenshuriken. In sage mode, Naruto can make multiple and larger rasenshurikens as well as rasengans. Let's not forget frog kata style. Do you remember that invisible punch that Naruto did against Pain? That attack would totally wreck many people. Also, Naruto is stronger than Tsunade and Utakata in sage mode. How many paths of pain do you think Tsunade would have been able to beat? As for Utakata, he was only able to destroy about one or two Pains. Naruto is also still the strongest in Konoha 11 with sage mode alone. Finally, Naruto is even stronger than Jiraiya with sage mode. Jiraiya struggled against 3 pains and needed the help of the two frogs while Naruto quickly beat up to 5 of them before being pinned down by the Deva path and seeing Hinata get stabbed. This was before Naruto got even better with sage mode.

Do you see now? Naruto is not weak without Kurama! He was even able to help against Madara in sage mode (unlike those other random shinobi). In the third shippuden movie, Naruto even beat Gaara in his base state! If Kurama gets extracted and Naruto survives, he will still be at least mid to high kage level. Yes he would be weaker than he is now, but he would still be nowhere near weak in general. In case you are wondering, no I did not include anything about Sasuke in my analysis (so I am not trying to start a Naruto without Kurama vs Sasuke war).

Ps. Why do people criticize Naruto about using Kurama and say that he always depends on Kurama? He just got BM that day (in the manga time). He just got KCM the previous day (and that mode technically belongs to Naruto. He can use it without Kurama's cooperation). Before that, Naruto mainly just stuck to base state and sage mode (except when he got really mad). He single handedly beat Kakashi without Kurama's help (yes I know he apparently got those red eyes at one point, but that didn't really do anything).

Finally, nobody ever criticizes Bee or any other jinchuuriki about this issue (and Bee uses Gyuki all the time)! They only criticise Naruto. Why is that?

Agreed. It's prefect for Naruto since it increases Naruto's base stats by a huge margin (the physical strength he displays). Naruto can use at least 200 clones to train with to increase his power faster than anyone else like he did while learning Wind Rasengan. 200 clones training 1 day equals 200 days worth of training.

 

[Raekwon26]

i brought up madara because its the exact same thing, the guy has a dude face imprinted in his chest, injected another blood into him then you want to talk about borrowed power?

and what hard work and dedication did gaara do? he had the sand power used since sealed in him, its listed as him having wind nature and i never seen one wind jutsu from him only the shukaku, the dude defeated the kyuubi fair and square and took the power by force thats more work than gaara had done for power.

yet thats why SM has not only be featured in the war and combined with the cloak it was the only the effective way to deal with the juubi

dont give me that peace crap that might have been the purpose hashirama wanted them for but after that the were always used for war purpose,
e.g mist sealing sanbi in rin for the sole purpose of her returning to konoha and losing control.

Again, Madara has nothing to do with this at all. He was brought up for no reason.

AGAIN, Gaara is not the focus because Gaara wasn't the one who was preaching hard work. Gaara wasn't the one who was the child of prophecy, Gaara wasn't the one talking about 'no shortcuts', Gaara wasn't the one who was born from such a pristine bloodline but then goes on to proceed like he's nothing. Your comparison with gaara just shows that you can only compare them because they both have (had) Bijuus, that's it. When you actually go further, they are so different it's unreal.

SM ain't shit. KCM and BM say hi. Complete waste. If it was vital then Kurama's role for Naruto wouldn't be so big. Where was SM when the Juubi was firing Bijuu bombs all over the place? Where was SM in the fight against Obtio before Madara arrived. Where is SM NOW? Joke of a mode that Kishi just threw in. The pinnacle of it's embarrassment was the fact that Naruto used it against Pein and STILL it was Kuramas chakra which made the big difference.

No, they weren't for war purposes, that's what they later became. This has been stated in the Manga many times.
Mist sealing Sanbi in Rin further highlights my point. Do you know of any other village during Hashirama's time that decided to use to Bijuus as weapons?
Don't think so.

 

[-Spoiler-]

Again, Madara has nothing to do with this at all. He was brought up for no reason.

AGAIN, Gaara is not the focus because Gaara wasn't the one who was preaching hard work. Gaara wasn't the one who was the child of prophecy, Gaara wasn't the one talking about 'no shortcuts', Gaara wasn't the one who was born from such a pristine bloodline but then goes on to proceed like he's nothing. Your comparison with gaara just shows that you can only compare them because they both have (had) Bijuus, that's it. When you actually go further, they are so different it's unreal.

SM ain't shit. KCM and BM say hi. Complete waste. If it was vital then Kurama's role for Naruto wouldn't be so big. Where was SM when the Juubi was firing Bijuu bombs all over the place? Where was SM in the fight against Obtio before Madara arrived. Where is SM NOW? Joke of a mode that Kishi just threw in. The pinnacle of it's embarrassment was the fact that Naruto used it against Pein and STILL it was Kuramas chakra which made the big difference.

No, they weren't for war purposes, that's what they later became. This has been stated in the Manga many times.
Mist sealing Sanbi in Rin further highlights my point. Do you know of any other village during Hashirama's time that decided to use to Bijuus as weapons?
Don't think so.

sigh the kazekage never stop trying find a compatible host for shukaku just for the purpose of being a weapon stated by him multiple times, and deem gaara a failure because he couldnt control. pristine bloodline and child of prophecy? where was all of that in part 1? what can the pristine bloodline do to stop whats going on now? tsunade is just has much uzumaki has naruto any benefits he gets from it she gets it aswell plus more due to being a senju as well.
the BM attacks where pretty much useless until naruto add senjutsu power to them.