[Discussion] You can never be racist to white people!

[Conspirator.]

No, you can't.

Racism and prejudice are two distinct things. Racism is something embedded into the social, political, and economic systems of a society. How can you oppress the oppressors? Racism against Hispanics and African Americans is institutionalized. When you call a white person a "cracker" all you're doing is offending their ego. However, look at the racism against minorities. They're discriminated to the point where they're stripped of the of the opportunities a white person gets. The racism they encounter put them at an extreme disadvantage in multiple facets of their lives.

Dumbest comment of the day. Whilst there may well be discrimination against blacks, racist behaviour is racist behaviour- no matter how hard you try and sugar coat it. The blacks being the minority doesn't justify any racism. This is a big problem I have with various movements like Feminism. A lot of extremists claim they want "equality" when they are really aiming for "superiority". SMH

 

[Bling Kai]

white is the superior species, or so they think, so being called white isnt actually an insult in anyway.

Nor is being called any other race an insult.

Only fools believe Thier race is superior to another race, plus this isn't 1960 anymore if you think people are jealous of white people nowadays you may want to get out more.

 

[KilluaZoldyck]

Bold- that, that right there. That's BS, fellows.

These moralists assume tha simply because black people were opressed in the past(by white people), they have the right to "opress back" without any issues. That is not a solution at all.

Even though, nowadays, racism towards black people still exist, that doesn't mean all white citizens are racist. Therefore, those who follow their duties as innocent citizens have the right to be respected. Thus, these citizens can't suffer from any kind of disrespect. If a black person wants do disrespect those citizens simply because they are white(and then called opressors), he/she can't, because they aren't actually opressors.

Being a part of the group that in the past were opressors doensn't instantly define you as an opressors. Your actions define you as such.

Any disrespect towarda a white person simply because of the fact they are white is still racism.

How are black people or any other minority subordinating you? Calling you a "cracker" or saying white people suck? That's prejudice. I'm not condoning it but it's no where near the repercussions true racism gets. True racism is seeing the media and all those cases of black people killed and brushed under the rug. If a black person did the same crime, their prison time would be significantly higher. True racism is the fact that a white person who has the same qualifications as me is more likely to obtain the job because of their skin color. True racism is identifying the vast socioeconomic conditions of a white person and minority. Racism causes deaths and injustice, not just a bruised ego.

Do not trivialize the struggles minority had to go through just because it was in the past. Because you know what? The aftermath of those times are still seen today, not only in American but in parts of Africa. The Native Americans are a great example of this. I cannot think of a minority who has been more shitted on than them. Pillaged of their lands and their populations diminished, they live in a pathetic excuse of land and suffer the highest depression, suicide, and alcohol rates.

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So just because it was your ancestors who caused all this oppression does not exempt you from the responsibility of accepting that you have unearned privilege and that white privilege still exists. Instead of derailing the whole topic of racism back to white people and their hurt feelings, you should take a stand by acknowledging and trying to do something about the injustice that still exists today.

 

[KilluaZoldyck]

Dumbest comment of the day. Whilst there may well be discrimination against blacks, racist behaviour is racist behaviour- no matter how hard you try and sugar coat it. The blacks being the minority doesn't justify any racism. This is a big problem I have with various movements like Feminism. A lot of extremists claim they want "equality" when they are really aiming for "superiority". SMH

*facepalm*

No, they are not going towards superiority. Are you so afraid to have your privilege taken away? Defensive of your privileged status? What minorities are trying to do is level the playing fields so equality exist. Obviously you have to take away the undeserved and dangerous power oppressors have.

 

[Dannie]

What do you mean by "looked more poorly"? You're talking about the fact that a higher % of poor people is black?

No, I'm talking about reputation. You know that black people have a bad reputation, so if you are considered "black" then it is a lot harder for you to make it in this country than white people(Depending on where you live of course).

Racism to me is more of a system thing.

 

[Conspirator.]

*facepalm*

No, they are not going towards superiority. Are you so afraid to have your privilege taken away? Defensive of your privileged status? What minorities are trying to do is level the playing fields so equality exist. Obviously you have to take away the undeserved and dangerous power oppressors have.

Just to clear up something....... I am not even white or in the majority. So no, I am not being defensive.
Wrong, minority groups of all kinds SAY they want to level the playing fields-that doesn't necessarily mean they want it. I am not just talking about race here, but gay lobbyists, feminists, etc But inadvertently or not, those groups are always littered with extremists. The way I see it, whilst there may well be discrimination to them, black people need to change. The recent riots for example are disgusting.

 

[KilluaZoldyck]

Just to clear up something....... I am not even white or in the majority. So no, I am not being defensive.
Wrong, minority groups of all kinds SAY they want to level the playing fields-that doesn't necessarily mean they want it. I am not just talking about race here, but gay lobbyists, feminists, etc But inadvertently or not, those groups are always littered with extremists. The way I see it, whilst there may well be discrimination to them, black people need to change. The recent riots for example are disgusting.

If you think that the extremists are the large majority of the movements, then you haven't been exposed to it properly or done your research about these movements (I'm not being condescending btw). There is no ulterior motive of putting minorities to power and reversing the power roles. What you see in these movements is resentment for justified reasons and trying to stop the injustice that plagues them.

The system needs to change. The social constructs need to change. The people are always trying to change but how can you when meritocracy is just a myth and is not in your favor?

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

Well slavery wasn't really too long ago. Black and white people of America are still trying to move past that both socially and psychologically. Black people are taught from a young age that life will be unfair to you, that's a sickness and curse that you have to find the strength to move past.

But this whole thread is more of an American problem than a worldy one. Which is causing misunderstanding since everyone here isn't American.

 

[Tingun]

Some good laughs in here.

 

[Retro Chaos]

I disagree - you can be racist to anyone. White people have got it better than black people, that is true, and in some respects white people still get it better, however, that does not mean being racist to one who is white is impossible. Racism is linked to the majority - African Americans have had a history of prejudice due to being a minority in America over the years. However, this can work both ways; I know a man who grew up in an area that primarily consisted of Black people, whereas he was white. Because of this, he suffered prejudice - this is because he was the minority in that area.

Racism is everywhere and everyone can be the subject of it; it is human nature to fear things that are different and thus most humans react by pointing the difference out and capitalising on their disadvantage for being the minority. This is a great flaw that most humans have I believe, some of us simply aren't open-minded enough to accept those different from us, which truly is a shame.

 

[Dannie]

I disagree - you can be racist to anyone. White people have got it better than black people, that is true, and in some respects white people still get it better, however, that does not mean being racist to one who is white is impossible. Racism is linked to the majority - African Americans have had a history of prejudice due to being a minority in America over the years. However, this can work both ways; I know a man who grew up in an area that primarily consisted of Black people, whereas he was white. Because of this, he suffered prejudice - this is because he was the minority in that area.

Racism is everywhere and everyone can be the subject of it; it is human nature to fear things that are different and thus most humans react by pointing the difference out and capitalising on their disadvantage for being the minority. This is a great flaw that most humans have I believe, some of us simply aren't open-minded enough to accept those different from us, which truly is a shame.

I like this post.

Well said.

 

[Aim64C]

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" The creation of Yugoslavia as part of the reordering of Europe after the first world war made a great deal of sense. In geopolitical terms, it helped accomplish the dismemberment of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, removing Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia & Hercegovina and Vojvodina from Austrian or Hungarian control. At the same time, the creation of a Land of the South Slavs, or Yugoslavia (Jugoslavija, from jug, south, plus slavija, of Slavs) met the demands of at least some of the dominant political figures among the South Slavic peoples, particularly the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. These peoples and the Mecedonians speak closely related languages or dialects of the same languages or dialects of the same language. Serbian and Croatian are as closely related and mutually intelligible as British English and American English, while the relationships of Slovenian and Macedonian to Serbo-Croatian are about the equivalent of those of Dutch and Schweizerdeutsch, respectively, to German. The fact that Croats and Slovenes are mainly Catholic while Serbs and Macedonians are mainly Orthodox Christians did not seem to differentiate these peoples overwhelmingly. In terms of criteria of language/dialect, religion, traditional economic structures and other cultural features, there were and are probably fewer differences between Serbs and Croats than between Bavarians and Prussians.
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The Ustasa government of the NDH embarked on an ambitious plan for creating the purely Croat Croatia envisioned by the exclusivist ideology. They planned to do this by eliminating "disordering elements," namely the Serbs, Jews, and Gypsies. The last two groups were to be completely eliminated, according to the doctrines of the Ustasas' Nazi patrons. The Serbs, however, were treated according to the Ustasas' own ideology, which as a rather inconsistent blend of racism and political hatred. As historian Aleksa Djilas puts it, the Ustasas viewed serbs as a political enemy but described them in racist terms, and treated them in the way the Nazis treated "racially inferior" peoples. By July and August 1941, the Ustasas began to implement their agenda for dealing with the Serbs: one-third would be killed, one-third driven from Croatia (including Bosnia and Hercegovina), and one-third converted to Catholicism, a step that would remove their "national consciousness" and render them harmless politically.

The techniques of the Ustasa campaign against the Serbs of Croatia and Bosnia from 1941-45 will be familiar to all who have seen the details of "ethnic cleansing" in Bosnia since 1992. Some concentration camps were created, but most of the slaughter took place in towns and villages. The techniques of the 1940s were like those of the 1990s: a group of armed men would descend upon a settlement of people who they defined as ethnonational enemies. Murder, rape, and burning of the structures would follow. "

Bunch of white people cleansing each other from existence based on ethnic and linguistic differences.

Sounds like racism to me.

But surely this was an isolated case?

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Quoting Benjamin Franklin, here:

" Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion.

24. Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased. And while we are, as I may call it, Scouring our Planet, by clearing America of Woods, and so making this Side of our Globe reflect a brighter Light to the Eyes of Inhabitants in Mars or Venus, why should we in the Sight of Superior Beings, darken its People? why increase the Sons of Africa, by Planting them in America, where we have so fair an Opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawneys, of increasing the lovely White and Red? But perhaps I am partial to the Complexion of my Country, for such Kind of Partiality is natural to Mankind. "

While I think the prism of history makes his words sound more harsh than he intended them. I do not believe Ben Franklin held any ill-desires toward the "non-white" - he just felt that it was 'his nationality' that was most responsible for forming the country and outlining the enlightened ideals it operated on and was expressing concern over what felt like a swamping of that system with foreign ideas that would lead to the nation's way of life becoming something other than what it was.

While his fears were rational - I don't think they panned out as he expected.

Of course, at the time, no one was paying the immigrants to come here. They came here because no one was going to tell them that they couldn't rustle up an improvised forge and try their hand at smithing - or because no one was going to tell them what crops to grow, when they could grow them, or how much they could/couldn't sell them for.

And things got really interesting with World War I and II.

To a lesser degree than the Japanese immigrants - the Germans were also interned in prison camps - though this was mostly limited to more recent German migrants. But my grandfather - about as German as American could be - was on the first invasion wave into Japan (we did actually invade) and his sheet metal shop contracted some of the production of the St. Louis Gateway Arch.

So, clearly, they didn't need government subsidies to figure out how to integrate with society and how to be successful.

And it didn't take long for the Germans, Italians, and the other 'tawny' groups to be lumped into the 'white' description. Though most people identified as their European ethnic root (German, French, Italian, Greek, etc) until the 1960s when black racism became a focal point of media and social discussion.

 

[KilluaZoldyck]

I disagree - you can be racist to anyone. White people have got it better than black people, that is true, and in some respects white people still get it better, however, that does not mean being racist to one who is white is impossible. Racism is linked to the majority - African Americans have had a history of prejudice due to being a minority in America over the years. However, this can work both ways; I know a man who grew up in an area that primarily consisted of Black people, whereas he was white. Because of this, he suffered prejudice - this is because he was the minority in that area.

Racism is everywhere and everyone can be the subject of it; it is human nature to fear things that are different and thus most humans react by pointing the difference out and capitalising on their disadvantage for being the minority. This is a great flaw that most humans have I believe, some of us simply aren't open-minded enough to accept those different from us, which truly is a shame.

Post is interesting. I respect it.
However, racism has nothing to do with numbers, just like the term "minority" doesn't either. It's all about the scale of power.

 

[Wolfus]

How are black people or any other minority subordinating you? Calling you a "cracker" or saying white people suck? That's prejudice. I'm not condoning it but it's no where near the repercussions true racism gets. True racism is seeing the media and all those cases of black people killed and brushed under the rug. If a black person did the same crime, their prison time would be significantly higher. True racism is the fact that a white person who has the same qualifications as me is more likely to obtain the job because of their skin color. True racism is identifying the vast socioeconomic conditions of a white person and minority. Racism causes deaths and injustice, not just a bruised ego.

Do not trivialize the struggles minority had to go through just because it was in the past. Because you know what? The aftermath of those times are still seen today, not only in American but in parts of Africa. The Native Americans are a great example of this. I cannot think of a minority who has been more shitted on than them. Pillaged of their lands and their populations diminished, they live in a pathetic excuse of land and suffer the highest depression, suicide, and alcohol rates.

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So just because it was your ancestors who caused all this oppression does not exempt you from the responsibility of accepting that you have unearned privilege and that white privilege still exists. Instead of derailing the whole topic of racism back to white people and their hurt feelings, you should take a stand by acknowledging and trying to do something about the injustice that still exists today.

Ahh, another, another moralist post. Let's go through this, again.

Oh, I'm not black, and that doesn't even matter. This is a hypothetical situation we're discussing. What if a black person.... This is the point.
First, that's not prejudice. That's a disrespectful action towards a person because of it's race. That is classified as racism. Prejudice is simply an idea of a person or a group prior to meeting/knowing them. If that idea is negative, and is used against the person, if it's about his/her race, it's racism. Get your definitions straight.

All the "exemples" you mentioned are simply a consequence of racism in big proportions within a population. Also, you're quite outdated in here.

Because the media these days report the death of only important people. There are a lot of white people in my country that die and nobody knows about. The same happens with black people. Actually, so many people die in here everyday, it would require 24 hours of news to report a higher % of those deaths.

Since when, these days, black people get higher sentences exactly? Because there's nothing in the law that would result in that. Are you sure you're not just making sh*t up or mentioning one case only as a rule?

Oh, the job issue. That is indeed, a troublesome situation. A situation that, if you look at the frequency, is decreasing within the years. I already explained the "sequels of opression" to the OP.

I'm not trivializing them. However, you can't blame innocent people for what happend in the past simply ebcause they have the same genetic characterisct. I already mentioned the sequels(again). But as it can be seen, for black people, the situation has improved estatistically.
There are indeed sequels, but you can't expect things to improve overnight. As I mentioned, the correct measures were already taken care of. Black people are citizens by law, just like anyone else. They have the oportunities.

BS. We are not to blame because of what happened in the past. The responsability is of all of us, because we are citizens, and we should care for our fellow citizens. But not because of what our past group did.
I do take a stand. In a smart way. I don't overreact, I don't try to give previleges to minorities to compensate for the past. I look at the consequences of my actions, to see if it will solve te problems. Something you moralist don't do.

 

[Wolfus]

No, I'm talking about reputation. You know that black people have a bad reputation, so if you are considered "black" then it is a lot harder for you to make it in this country than white people(Depending on where you live of course).

Racism to me is more of a system thing.

Black people only have a bad reputation to racist people. And as I previously mentioned, the sequels won't heal overnight. We already did what we could. They have, by law, the same right as us. The only thing we can do now is make sure that law is respected, is followed, and that racist people wil be punished accordinly.

As I said, the sitatuion is estatistically improving for black people.

 

[Retro Chaos]

Post is interesting. I respect it.
However, racism has nothing to do with numbers, just like the term "minority" doesn't either. It's all about the scale of power.

Thank you, I respect your view on the matter also. One can argue that the numbers and the scale of power are somewhat linked, however. Although, that probably is an outdated view on it that I don't necessarily agree with, as the numbers really do not equate to power.

 

[Tingun]

I disagree - you can be racist to anyone. White people have got it better than black people, that is true, and in some respects white people still get it better, however, that does not mean being racist to one who is white is impossible. Racism is linked to the majority - African Americans have had a history of prejudice due to being a minority in America over the years. However, this can work both ways; I know a man who grew up in an area that primarily consisted of Black people, whereas he was white. Because of this, he suffered prejudice - this is because he was the minority in that area.

Racism is everywhere and everyone can be the subject of it; it is human nature to fear things that are different and thus most humans react by pointing the difference out and capitalising on their disadvantage for being the minority. This is a great flaw that most humans have I believe, some of us simply aren't open-minded enough to accept those different from us, which truly is a shame.

I disagree with the idea that racism has anything to do with any type of regional majority. For example this suggest that early colonists of Africa and Asia could not project racism because they did not make up the majority of the regional population. I'd love to elaborate but unfortunately I'm not at a computer at the moment.

Edit: Another poster beat me to my point. Regardless it doesn't require power or political mass to create racism.

 

[MuerteMiAmigo]

No, you can't.

Racism and prejudice are two distinct things. Racism is something embedded into the social, political, and economic systems of a society. How can you oppress the oppressors? Racism against Hispanics and African Americans is institutionalized. When you call a white person a "cracker" all you're doing is offending their ego. However, look at the racism against minorities. They're discriminated to the point where they're stripped of the of the opportunities a white person gets. The racism they encounter put them at an extreme disadvantage in multiple facets of their lives.

as a hispanic im stripped of my opportunities???? is that what you said? sorry i couldnt hear you over all the opportunities i have.

you sound really dumb....just so you know

 

[MysticalMizuki]

Racism is Racism. End of discussion.

 

[slimreaper]

"Racism exists when prejudice+power combine to form social constructs, legislation and widespread media bias that contribute to the oppression of the rights and liberties of a group of people. Racism is systemic, institutional, and far reaching. It is the prevalence of racism within social structures and institutional norms, along with implicit and explicit enforcement by members of a group, that allows racism to run rampant and unchecked. America is a country seeped in white privilege, and our social structure is built on colonization and forced slave labor that then turned into further systemic and ongoing oppression of PoC. We have a culture that presents whiteness as the norm and all else as ‘other’ or different. White is presented as the beauty ideal, the main face in the media (unless we’re talking about criminals, then PoC get unfairly misrepresented), the standard, the regular. It’s a structural problem that affects the perceptions of jurors in criminal cases, admissions to colleges, funding for public schools, welfare and food stamp programs, the redrawing of district lines that affect where we vote, who we see represented on T.V. and how, what schools people have access to, what neighborhoods people live in, an individual’s shopping experience, access to goods and services; it’s extensive and a part of the fabric that let’s whiteness remain dominant in American culture."

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I stole this from another thread and thought it looked interesting to discuss.

What do you think?

Yeah thats bullshit. Racism is the belief that one race is better or different than another. That is all.


Thanks for changing the definition of racism to suit your needs though