[Discussion] Yonko can defeat 2 Admiral, but 3 defeats a Yonko! (Discussion)

[MickNerks]

First I would like to credit "Fronky" form Youtube for bringing up this scenario to give me a different perspective on the situation. If you would like to also watch the video here is a link: (

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).

Now to begins. I would like to start by saying I am completely sold on the idea that a Yonko CAN defeat two admiral level opponents in a 1v2 scenario with High to Extreme Diff, BUT when you add a Third admiral level opponent it drastically tips the scales to the admiral level team with them winning with at the most Medium Difficult (With Shanks and Blackbeard giving them a High Diff victory).

The reason I make this claim is because of the Power Scaling we have seen in the Manga thus far.

When we look at the Admirals, it has become perfectly clear that for the most part they are on the same level if not SLIGHTLY superior to Yonko Top Commanders/First Mates (By Yonko Top Commander I mean the strongest of their commanders, not every commander). The examples that we have include:

-

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-

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-

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-

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(We can all agree Doffy in Yonko Commander Level)
- Luffy Vs Fujitora (Explaination in Spoiler)

Spoiler

Though I do understand Luffy and Fujitora were both holding back during their breif brawl, it should go without saying that Gear 4th Luffy (regardless of time limit restraint) is close to if not exactly on Admiral level. Gear 4th was able to not only completely manhandle

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and

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. But it also sent

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and had

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his Observation Haki for a moment. With Luffy able to tango and win against 2 opponents on Commander status, especially
two commanders who we know could easily go toe to toe with an admiral, it seems to only makes since that a gear 4 luffy could also give an admiral a run for their money. This is why I point out luffy's match with Fujitora even thought their fight didnt prove anything.

With all these examples we can conclude to some degree that Yonko Top Commandes and Admirals are very close in strength with strength fluctuating between classes. Now with that being said, let us pair the yonko commanders against the yonko and it becomes quite clear the difference in strength between the class of Yonko and that of Admirals/Yonko Top Commanders.

If the pairing were:

- Big Mom vs Katakuri and Doflamingo
- Kaido vs Marco and Sabo
- Shanks vs Luffy and Doflamingo
- BlackBeard vs Luffy and Sabo

I think we would all agree that the Yonko would be able to take these with Mid difficulty at the most. It is only when you add a third Yonko Commander Tier Fighter do these fight potential become a win for the admiral/commander level fighters.
Example:

- Big Mom vs Katakuri, Doflamingo, Benn Beckman
- Kaido vs Marco, Sabo, Katakuri
- Shanks vs Luffy, Doflamingo, Shilew of the Rain
- BlackBeard vs Luffy, Sabo, Katakuri

With these examples, it should be clear that the power of the Yonko is sigificantly higher than that of the Admiral and Yonko Top Commanders. And it would in most cases only be a win for the admirals if it was a 3 on 1 senario, because 2 on 1 still is not enought to overcome the base physical attributes of a Yonko (excluding blackbeard), not even considering their broken Devil Fruits and Haki Abilities.

Im sure this thread will not convince some of you that a yonko requires at least 3 admiral or top commander level fighters to bring them down, which is why I would like you to also watch the link to the video I found on Youtube. Fronky does a far better job explaining the topic than I have done.

Ultimately, I would like this to become a discussion with users posting legit arguments against or for, not just fanboy speculation. If you disagree that Admirals and Yonko Top commanders are comparable in strength I would like to hear your arguments and evidence as to why they are not.

 

[Passerby]

Stopped reading when you compared Doflamingo to Yonko FM

 

[MickNerks]

Stopped reading when you compared Doflamingo to Yonko FM

That's fair.

I hear so many people on this base compare Duffy to a Yonko Commander, I'm interested in why you do not. Was his showing in Dressrossa not impressive to you?

Though I don't agree with this statement, I have heard multiple people suggest "Doffy is stronger than Jack".

 

[Greatness23]

true

 

[Easyfathom]

The majority of the Yonko's are clearly the stronger opponents when it comes to admirals, but I think for the most part admirals are stronger than their commanders.

Was the showing of BOTH Marco and Vista not enough of a showing with Akainu to show that? They were absolute veterans of the New World and you'd think that they wouldn't be push overs, and yet they didn't do anything to Akainu.

The top tiers within Yonko crews that we have seen so far have been Jack, Cracker and Katakuri (not counting Whitebeard, Shanks or Blackbeard as we haven't seen them fight), who Jack just turned to a mammoth and tried to wreck shit, so seems like he's all power and nothing else. Nothing special and I think any admiral would wreck him. Both Cracker and Katakuri seem to pose the threat of being untouchable, but only Katakuri really seems to have shown the power to deal any sort of considerable damage, but even then, with his endurance looking like it was in WCI, I don't think he's able to tango for days like we know Sakazuki did and ultimately would lose too.

So I think admirals have earned their place above the commanders we've seen thus far. Now, what we did see, was all 3 admirals attempt attacking Whitebeard and he seemed to hold his own even in his ill health. But do you really think that a Yonko could hold out long enough against 2?
We know Kaido seems to be indestructible, but not unbeatable. We can't tell how strong he is and I'm going to go with he's capturable, therefore taking the loss.
Big Mom goes skinny after how long? Goes into an incontrollable rage if she doesn't satisfy a craving after how long? I think her flaws give her such a disadvantage and would ultimately mean her downfall.
Shanks. He breaks the OPverse (more of a hope than reality I'm sure). I just can't help this sensation of he's the best and so that's all I'll say about that...
Blackbeard.... Bah, I hate the scrub, I think he's rather weak and easily beatable (imo), wouldn't even take 2 admirals.

So for the most part I think it's a 50/50 when it's 2v1 against the Yonko, it wouldn't be a fight that's a 1 shot, it'd be drawn out to the point where it could go either way depending on the matchups. But certainly no (except the latter scrub) Yonko gets beat in a 1 v 1.

 

[Big Mom]

Akainu absolutely demolished everyone and had a standstill with whitebeard.

Kuzan then had a 10 day battle with akainu

Admirals = yonko

Admirals= 4 strongest Marines (including the fleet admiral)
Yonko= four strongest pirates

Garp and Roger nearly killed each other countless times.

Garp and sengoku are rivals

How much simpler could it be

Admirals=yonko
Warlords= commanders
Vas=crew

 

[Passerby]

That's fair.

I hear so many people on this base compare Duffy to a Yonko Commander, I'm interested in why you do not. Was his showing in Dressrossa not impressive to you?

Though I don't agree with this statement, I have heard multiple people suggest "Doffy is stronger than Jack".

I was kidding about not reading the whole thing.

As for Jack/Doffy, read the Zou arc and ask yourself "What can DD do to kill Jack?"

 

[Easyfathom]

Akainu absolutely demolished everyone and had a standstill with whitebeard.

Kuzan then had a 10 day battle with akainu

Admirals = yonko

Admirals= 4 strongest Marines (including the fleet admiral)
Yonko= four strongest pirates

Garp and Roger nearly killed each other countless times.

Garp and sengoku are rivals

How much simpler could it be

Admirals=yonko
Warlords= commanders
Vas=crew

This real? Where was this stated... Genuinely curious

 

[MickNerks]

The majority of the Yonko's are clearly the stronger opponents when it comes to admirals, but I think for the most part admirals are stronger than their commanders.

Was the showing of BOTH Marco and Vista not enough of a showing with Akainu to show that? They were absolute veterans of the New World and you'd think that they wouldn't be push overs, and yet they didn't do anything to Akainu.

The top tiers within Yonko crews that we have seen so far have been Jack, Cracker and Katakuri (not counting Whitebeard, Shanks or Blackbeard as we haven't seen them fight), who Jack just turned to a mammoth and tried to wreck shit, so seems like he's all power and nothing else. Nothing special and I think any admiral would wreck him. Both Cracker and Katakuri seem to pose the threat of being untouchable, but only Katakuri really seems to have shown the power to deal any sort of considerable damage, but even then, with his endurance looking like it was in WCI, I don't think he's able to tango for days like we know Sakazuki did and ultimately would lose too.

To be fair, Akainu seem to be at a level between admiral and yonko. He definetly was shown to not be able to handle a Yonko in a 1v1 situation but it would not be a stomp in the Yonko's favor. I would say it would take any Yonko High-mid to High diff to defeat Prime Akainu.

Also when both Marco and Vista both attacked Akainu either they did not use haki, which would have been extremely foolish but not impossible or Akainu maniupulated his body like katakuri did to avoid the attacks. I think it would take Akainu Mid to High Difficulty to defeat Marco, yet I think it would take someone like Kizaru or Fujitora extremely High Difficulty to beat someone like Marco if they could at all.

So I think admirals have earned their place above the commanders we've seen thus far. Now, what we did see, was all 3 admirals attempt attacking Whitebeard and he seemed to hold his own even in his ill health. But do you really think that a Yonko could hold out long enough against 2?
We know Kaido seems to be indestructible, but not unbeatable. We can't tell how strong he is and I'm going to go with he's capturable, therefore taking the loss.
Big Mom goes skinny after how long? Goes into an incontrollable rage if she doesn't satisfy a craving after how long? I think her flaws give her such a disadvantage and would ultimately mean her downfall.
Shanks. He breaks the OPverse (more of a hope than reality I'm sure). I just can't help this sensation of he's the best and so that's all I'll say about that...
Blackbeard.... Bah, I hate the scrub, I think he's rather weak and easily beatable (imo), wouldn't even take 2 admirals.

Big Mom was only skinny due to her craving the cake, there was no reason to assume that she gets like that anytime she fights for a prolonged period of time. This is proven by then fact that her children had never seen her in that state before.

There also is no situation that confirms that Big Mom will go into a Food Rampage wilst in the middle of battle. At no point during this arc did Big Mom enter a food craving while in the middle of battle. She only started fight after entering the food rampage.

Though I do think Blackbeards base stats are pretty weak, his DF combo is ridiculously OP. I dont see any Admiral who relying on a DF able to beat him in a 1v1, even a 2v1 would be in Blackbeards favor because of the scale of his attacks.

 

[Big Mom]

To be fair, Akainu seem to be at a level between admiral and yonko. He definetly was shown to not be able to handle a Yonko in a 1v1 situation but it would not be a stomp in the Yonko's favor. I would say it would take any Yonko High-mid to High diff to defeat Prime Akainu.

Also when both Marco and Vista both attacked Akainu either they did not use haki, which would have been extremely foolish but not impossible or Akainu maniupulated his body like katakuri did to avoid the attacks. I think it would take Akainu Mid to High Difficulty to defeat Marco, yet I think it would take someone like Kizaru or Fujitora extremely High Difficulty to beat someone like Marco if they could at all.



Big Mom was only skinny due to her craving the cake, there was no reason to assume that she gets like that anytime she fights for a prolonged period of time. This is proven by then fact that her children had never seen her in that state before.

There also is no situation that confirms that Big Mom will go into a Food Rampage wilst in the middle of battle. At no point during this arc did Big Mom enter a food craving while in the middle of battle. She only started fight after entering the food rampage.

Though I do think Blackbeards base stats are pretty weak, his DF combo is ridiculously OP. I dont see any Admiral who relying on a DF able to beat him in a 1v1, even a 2v1 would be in Blackbeards favor because of the scale of his attacks.

To defeat akainu? One of odas top 5 favorite characters? Who oda said was so strong that if the main character was as strong as akainu he would find one piece within 2 years, something no yonko has came close to doing in over 10 lol

And take akainu high diff to beat Marco? Yet when Marco tried to hold akainu back, akainu let off a little heat, BURNED through Marcos flames and Marco never even attempted to go at him again.

 

[MickNerks]

Akainu absolutely demolished everyone and had a standstill with Whitebeard.

I would not call that battle a standstill. Whitebeard was sick and dying already. And when Whitebeard did get angry he demolished Akainu tremendously and was going to take all of Marineford with him.

Spoiler

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Kuzan then had a 10 day battle with akainu

Admirals = yonko

Admirals= 4 strongest Marines (including the fleet admiral)
Yonko= four strongest pirates

Not an accurate power scaling. The Marines are not the top of the totem pole when it come to the One Piece Villains. It goes:

- Shichbukai
- Marines
- World Government

So while the admirals are the strongest the marines have to offer, we still have forces in the world government that should be stronger than the Marines (Including Admirals). This could include both

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and the

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If anything the Admiral < Yonko =/< Gorosei

Garp and Roger nearly killed each other countless times.

Garp and Sengoku are rivals

How much simpler could it be

Admirals=yonko
Warlords= commanders
Vas=crew

Sengoku and Garp are not rivals. Garp was superior to Sengoku in strength and was offered the title of admiral and fleet admiral many times but turned it down. This is the ONLY reason Sengoku was made Fleet Admiral.

 

[Big Mom]

I would not call that battle a standstill. Whitebeard was sick and dying already. And when Whitebeard did get angry he demolished Akainu tremendously and was going to take all of Marineford with him.

Spoiler

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Not an accurate power scaling. The Marines are not the top of the totem pole when it come to the One Piece Villains. It goes:

- Shichbukai
- Marines
- World Government

So while the admirals are the strongest the marines have to offer, we still have forces in the world government that should be stronger than the Marines (Including Admirals). This could include both

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and the

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If anything the Admiral < Yonko =/< Gorosei




Sengoku and Garp are not rivals. Garp was superior to Sengoku in strength and was offered the title of admiral and fleet admiral many times but turned it down. This is the ONLY reason Sengoku was made Fleet Admiral.

Sengoku and garp don't and didn't fight like rivals? Especially who gets to go capture who and what not?

And everything you stated was speculation, I still agree with what I posted and won't change my mind about it. I'm a Yonko fan and still say Admirals = yonko

 

[Easyfathom]

To be fair, Akainu seem to be at a level between admiral and yonko. He definetly was shown to not be able to handle a Yonko in a 1v1 situation but it would not be a stomp in the Yonko's favor. I would say it would take any Yonko High-mid to High diff to defeat Prime Akainu.

Also when both Marco and Vista both attacked Akainu either they did not use haki, which would have been extremely foolish but not impossible or Akainu maniupulated his body like katakuri did to avoid the attacks. I think it would take Akainu Mid to High Difficulty to defeat Marco, yet I think it would take someone like Kizaru or Fujitora extremely High Difficulty to beat someone like Marco if they could at all.

You can't go separating him. At that time we know he was pretty much on par with Aokiji and I don't think Kizaru is far from them. Now you have Fujitora (who've we've seen some good stuff from) and Green Bull (power still a mystery), but I don't think it's me going to far in saying they are about as strong as Kizaru (maybe stronger after seeing Green Bull). So no they can't take a Yonko in a 1 v 1, only idiots think that in my opinion. I think just from looking at Whitebeard in his sickly health crapping on Akainu as he did, shows that even Akainu doesn't stand a chance in a 1 v 1 and he is seeminly the strongest in the marines that we've seen so far (maybe Kong? Or is he an intermediate between Marines and WG?)

They did use haki, Akainu references that they're haki users but they don't match him. He just calls them a nuisance and they both look in regret of how they're not strong enough... So depending on the match up, I feel Akainu pretty much beats all of the Yonko commanders.

Clearly Marco from hype is a credible enough to pose a threat against an admiral, but I don't see him putting one down.

Big Mom was only skinny due to her craving the cake, there was no reason to assume that she gets like that anytime she fights for a prolonged period of time. This is proven by then fact that her children had never seen her in that state before.

There also is no situation that confirms that Big Mom will go into a Food Rampage wilst in the middle of battle. At no point during this arc did Big Mom enter a food craving while in the middle of battle. She only started fight after entering the food rampage.

Though I do think Blackbeards base stats are pretty weak, his DF combo is ridiculously OP. I dont see any Admiral who relying on a DF able to beat him in a 1v1, even a 2v1 would be in Blackbeards favor because of the scale of his attacks.

Is there not? When you crave a nice roast dinner on a Sunday do you just suddenly start wilting away hours before? No. She quite obviously spends her days stuffing her face so there would probably ever rarely be a situation where she goes hungry. This time she was deprived wedding cake and within hours she's wilted away. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that when she doesn't eat, she gets like that. And on top of that, if / when she gets a craving and is deprived of it, she'll go into her rage mode. Both of these flaws could be used against her if her opponent was strong and smart.
And we've seen not one, but TWO food rages this arc, in the OPverse that's a very short time frame. With then the length of fights that are possible in the top tiers, it's safe to assume that she may go hungry and she may be some pregnant lady (literally* a very high chance of the latter the way she goes) and get some mad food craving. I don't think these are unfair assumptions. I'm not saying she loses just because of these, but I think they could be used as huge turning points in a battle which causes the outcome of the battle to change.

I continuously seem to be the only one who thinks the tremor-tremor no Mi isn't that overpowered... It's got huge destructive force, yes, that's a given, but it's not that that efficient in a battle. And top tiers shouldn't be phased by it imo. Yes the Dark-Dark no Mi is pretty OP, it can do quite a lot of cool stuff. But I think (pure speculation incoming) that Green Bull is going to be a speed brawler, fast and strong and he has the potential to beat Blackbeard, Fujitora uses a sword, so he's got the opportunity to beat him. Kizaru has quite a bit of range attacks, I dunno how he would fair against Blackbeard... And Akainu...... He's got some durability that's for sure, but would it be enough to take down Blackbeard... I dunno, doubtful.
I just see Blackbeard who's some punk rogue character. I actually really hope he has a crazy storyline. Like the theories of cerberus and multiple personality disorder and such. Would make a lot of sense to me and make me enjoy his character so much more.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

Admirals are not on the level of Yonko commanders. After Akainu got back up, he went straight to crushing WB's crew including multiple commanders standing before himself.

Spoiler

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(look at the commanders list)

Even Marco notes that Kizaru was lying about being hurt(yeah right is sarcastic).

Spoiler

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I will admit that the admirals could be held up by commanders multiple times though. And to that, I point at Big Mom being held back by 4ish Strawhats, who were most certainly not yonko commander level, on the Sunny. The major difference between the admirals showings and Big Mom's own in my book is that the admirals didn't have an iron body to nonchalantly take hits, but have shown great showings of power despite brawling pretty casually(ignoring Akainu and Sengoku here).

Spoiler

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I think Oda put flaws in the admirals' characteristics in general to make them easier to write out without inducing plot stupidity.

Spoiler

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I don't even think Fujitora or Sabo went all out, yet we have Sabo negging Burgess like nothing, and Fuji making Sabo huff while not doing so himself.

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[Rikudou Tobi]

That's fair.

I hear so many people on this base compare Duffy to a Yonko Commander, I'm interested in why you do not. Was his showing in Dressrossa not impressive to you?

Though I don't agree with this statement, I have heard multiple people suggest "Doffy is stronger than Jack".

I agree with everything else you said besides Dofy being Yonkou FM level. I know G4 sent Dogtooth flying but that’s because he was caught off guard and Luffy blitzed him so hard that he bypassed some of his hard mochi.
However there were some cases when Power Mochi (awakening as Block Mochi) completely overwhelmed BounceMan for a while.
Even Cracker was able to block BounceMan’s attacks without sustaining any damage.

Dofy on the other hand offered no special resistance to any of Gear 4’s attacks like Cracker or Dogtooth. So it’s safe to assume that Dofy is on Cracker’s tier but a level slightly below him, shichibakui (commander) level. Dogtooth, Marco, and Sabo are on a tier of their own which is Yonkou FM level.

On topic: I personally think that Roger’s can beat all 3 admirals

 

[chopstickchakra]

Imo it's 1 Yonko > 1 Admiral in any instance.

1 Yonko >=< 2 Admiral could go anyway depending on scenarios but more likely than not in favor of the Admirals.

1 Yonkou < 3 Admirals in any instance.

 

[kiiro]

Looks ok.

 

[Olorin]

damn ppl are underrating the admirals so hard

 

[Wrappering_]

Big Mommu and Teach maybe, but I don't see Kaido or Shanks pulling that off. Teach can nullify and vortex anyone and their power and then Flamberge them; as for big Mom, she would just create homies of their natures and use them against them, in addition to that she would use Soul vortex and Soul enigma to crush their minds and corrupt their souls and take their life spans into the realm of Hades.

 

[Uzumaki sensei]

First I would like to credit "Fronky" form Youtube for bringing up this scenario to give me a different perspective on the situation. If you would like to also watch the video here is a link: (

You must be registered for see links

).

Now to begins. I would like to start by saying I am completely sold on the idea that a Yonko CAN defeat two admiral level opponents in a 1v2 scenario with High to Extreme Diff, BUT when you add a Third admiral level opponent it drastically tips the scales to the admiral level team with them winning with at the most Medium Difficult (With Shanks and Blackbeard giving them a High Diff victory).

The reason I make this claim is because of the Power Scaling we have seen in the Manga thus far.

When we look at the Admirals, it has become perfectly clear that for the most part they are on the same level if not SLIGHTLY superior to Yonko Top Commanders/First Mates (By Yonko Top Commander I mean the strongest of their commanders, not every commander). The examples that we have include:

-

You must be registered for see links

-

You must be registered for see links

-

You must be registered for see links

-

You must be registered for see links

(We can all agree Doffy in Yonko Commander Level)
- Luffy Vs Fujitora (Explaination in Spoiler)

Spoiler

Though I do understand Luffy and Fujitora were both holding back during their breif brawl, it should go without saying that Gear 4th Luffy (regardless of time limit restraint) is close to if not exactly on Admiral level. Gear 4th was able to not only completely manhandle

You must be registered for see links

and

You must be registered for see links

. But it also sent

You must be registered for see links

and had

You must be registered for see links

his Observation Haki for a moment. With Luffy able to tango and win against 2 opponents on Commander status, especially
two commanders who we know could easily go toe to toe with an admiral, it seems to only makes since that a gear 4 luffy could also give an admiral a run for their money. This is why I point out luffy's match with Fujitora even thought their fight didnt prove anything.

With all these examples we can conclude to some degree that Yonko Top Commandes and Admirals are very close in strength with strength fluctuating between classes. Now with that being said, let us pair the yonko commanders against the yonko and it becomes quite clear the difference in strength between the class of Yonko and that of Admirals/Yonko Top Commanders.

If the pairing were:

- Big Mom vs Katakuri and Doflamingo
- Kaido vs Marco and Sabo
- Shanks vs Luffy and Doflamingo
- BlackBeard vs Luffy and Sabo

I think we would all agree that the Yonko would be able to take these with Mid difficulty at the most. It is only when you add a third Yonko Commander Tier Fighter do these fight potential become a win for the admiral/commander level fighters.
Example:

- Big Mom vs Katakuri, Doflamingo, Benn Beckman
- Kaido vs Marco, Sabo, Katakuri
- Shanks vs Luffy, Doflamingo, Shilew of the Rain
- BlackBeard vs Luffy, Sabo, Katakuri

With these examples, it should be clear that the power of the Yonko is sigificantly higher than that of the Admiral and Yonko Top Commanders. And it would in most cases only be a win for the admirals if it was a 3 on 1 senario, because 2 on 1 still is not enought to overcome the base physical attributes of a Yonko (excluding blackbeard), not even considering their broken Devil Fruits and Haki Abilities.

Im sure this thread will not convince some of you that a yonko requires at least 3 admiral or top commander level fighters to bring them down, which is why I would like you to also watch the link to the video I found on Youtube. Fronky does a far better job explaining the topic than I have done.

Ultimately, I would like this to become a discussion with users posting legit arguments against or for, not just fanboy speculation. If you disagree that Admirals and Yonko Top commanders are comparable in strength I would like to hear your arguments and evidence as to why they are not.

the admirals had to rsaort to sea stone cuff to stop marco during marineford